How do you recover from being the pushover teacher?

Wow. I can’t answer your question, but it sounds like you’re doing a fantastic job!

I had tons of teachers that I loved in high school. Mr Fields was my chemistry teacher my junior year. He was awesome but he took no shit. He would simply tell kids to “Get the fuck out of his class and sit outside the door until the class was over.”

But it sounds like you need to actually make good on threats. Once the kids know you aren’t a pushover they will respect you.

@thesparrow , I figure everybody had to start somewhere.
@EmptyNest , not to be rude but are you being sarcastic or serious…LOL Ithink I’ve tried very hard to do the right things but I’ve gotta get used to doing them at the right times.
@johnpowell it is funny that you say that, I’ve been wanting to kick a bad few out and see if it makes my lessons go by smoother. I’m just worried about the outcome. I guess I will try that. The main problem has been that a few very strong students have told me they concentrate because other students are talking. I’ve tried telling them to stop, writing them up, giving them behavior assignments, or adding on extra problems to their homework. they all worked the first couple of times, but the effect wore off after a while. I think I’ll try kicking the first one that interrupts out tomorrow. I think I’ll be pissed at myself if it works wonderfully, becuase I’ve thought about it a few times. Thanks :-)

First, does your school have police officers assigned to it? If so, this is good because they are your backup. You can be friends with your students, but you are the one that has to relay to the students that disrespect for you, will not be tolerated. Any disorder or disrespect will be turned over to the school police officers.

Is this a direct threat to the students? Maybe. But, at least they will know where you stand as the controller of your classroom.

Remember, you are the adult teacher and they are the minor students. Do not let them get the best of you. Once this happens, your control is lost.

First, a belated welcome to Fluther! Secondly, welcome to Memphis. Another Jelly and I live in the city, or more accurately, in the suburbs.

Both of my sisters teach/taught in public schools, and what you describe is common in the early years of the field. Both became tough teachers and learned not to become a friend to their students, although they cared about their future. They learned where to draw the line. In my experience in facilitating hotel management classes for adults, this lesson comes with time and experience.

My advice is, that as a school teacher, gain direction and respect from the principal. S/he will be the one to cover your back when there is a problem in the classroom. Both of my sisters are/were tough teachers and often had to deal with complaints from parents. While the school administrators rode them for below average grades than normal, most students later acknowledged them for having had the sisters for a teacher and pushing them to the limits of their ability. The principal has always backed them up. Many students said that it set them up for sucess in college classes. The principals , fortunately, had faith in their ability, even if it meant a lower score standard for the school.

On another note, junior high school may not be your forte. A high school English teacher of mine would have been better suited for university level. He was passionate about his subjects, and delivering lectures to students required to take his courses appeared to be a painful daily situation.

In the meantime friend, stick with it. You will discover that this is either the right or wrong field for you. It often takes at least two years to find out that is not the right fit.

@john65pennington no, we do not have school police officers. I work in a small town. It is small, but at the same time urban. The demographic has a lot to do with it I guess. 85% African American. Thanks for the advice.
@Pied_Pfeffer thanks for the words of wisdom. I hope that I can work out the kinks sooner than later. I will keep you posted on my progress Maybe trying to act like the school year is restarting when we come back from Christmas could help. BTW, I am not in Memphis anymore. I am in Bolivar, TN. About 45 minutes from you. You say suburbs, do you mean, Lakeland, Cordova, Collierville, Bartlett? I’m very familiar with the area.

Yeah. Be fully prepared to kick them out. Can’t use the F-word though, or you’ll get in trouble. I subbed for years. I’d start every morning out feeling out the class. If I thought it was necessary I’d say, “If I have to, for the good of everyone else, I WILL expel students from my class room. If any of you want to test me on that, that is fine.”
The first hint of misbehavior, I’d toss the kid! It would bring the class under control quickly. I was really harsh but that’s what it takes.
You’ll find your voice. You’ll find your guns in your looks and tone of voice and body language. It’s called experience.
Hey…but I’ve never been in a situation like yours. All girls?? Holy crap a moly! Hang in there, man.

Wow, schools in the US get police officers assigned to them!? Hah, America, eh.

Obviously, you can’t just be constantly sending people off to see senior management, but what they used to do, when I was in school, was send you outside to stand in the corridor, which meant a 10–80% chance of being “discovered” by one of the senior management (depending where you are in the building). They were never the “friendly” type. Now that works well, because you’re not actually directly sending them to their dooms, but there is always the risk for them to consider.

That only really works though, if senior management have the right attitude, and you teach in the right location. The further we got from the central offices, the worse we generally got, by degree.

Wow – I’m in a public school in the U.S. and I’ve never heard of officers being assigned to schools! Ok so I’ve read all of the answers, and they all come from a teacher/adult point of view. I’m in highschool myself. Unfortunately, once you’ve said an empty threat, all respect is lost in we students’ eyes. You need to be firm. If kids are being disrespectful in class, it should not be tolerated. Out they go. You need to learn the delicate balance of a loved and respected teacher – be funny and kind, but on your own terms. If there is a general issue such as a lot of missed homework, make a speech. Be tough. I have a couple of very young teachers at my school, too – you’re basically describing exactly what they’re doing – being friends to the students. May I ask what subject(s) you teach?

A new semester, a new year, a new leaf. You will get the hang of it. You don’t have to just change all of a sudden but you will get more comfortable in your job as a teacher. It’s not so much about putting on a mean face, it’s about figuring out which battles are most important to fight.

As a newbie and not many years between you and the students it is about respect. They know you are new, you look young, so they will try to push the edge to see what they can get away with.
I think the second year will be completely different for you with the first year jitters and wisdom behind you.

I also want to applaud you for becoming a teacher. We certainly need more like you.
Also kudos to you on landing it fresh out of college. That speaks volumes for what the administration sees in you already. Nice job, it will get better!

I’m the other Memphis jelly. Well, I am out in the burbs like @Pied_Pfeffer.

I liked most of my teachers. I remember if a child created too much of a disruption, the kid was sent to the principals office, or given detention.

If a teacher had given me extra homework as a punishment I would have hated him, and have been demotivated to learn. That punishment would not have been effective for me at all.

I don’t know, I am not a teacher, so I can’t know exactly what the challenges are like in a classroom, but I think if you get to know each child, build rapport, they will feel loyalty and respect towards you.

Middle school is tough though. And, probably being so young works against you, the kids are more likely to take you less seriously.

What subject do you teach?

I teach 2nd and 3rd grade so my experience is obviously different from middle school. However, after 7 years of teaching I have thought a lot about your question, both for me personally and for colleagues. In my experience, here’s what has worked the best:

1. Be honest with your students. Tell them you are not happy about the behavior situation in your classroom and (briefly) explain why. I think middle schoolers especially would respond to your dilemma about how much you like them (all kids like to hear their teacher likes them) and therefore want to be friendly towards them but that acting like their friend is detracting from your responsibilities as their teacher. Tell them you want to work together to turn over a new leaf, so that everyone can do their respective jobs – you, to teach them; and them, to learn from you.

2. Tell them the new system. This must be straightforward, simple, and achievable. If you are happy with the 4 step behavior plan that you are already using, it may just be a matter of starting to strictly enforce it. If the 4 steps themselves aren’t adequate for whatever reason, or if you need a clean break, you need to come up with another system. I think it works best if the system has consequences that increase in severity with each infraction. In my classroom the 4th consequence is a call home (students make the call themselves with me standing by) and the 5th is a referral to the office. The earlier consequences involve losing recess time but that doesn’t seem as appropriate for middle school – obviously you’ll choose something that matters to your kids.

3. Include positive consequences in your system. These can be incentives for individual students and/or the whole class. Our 5th grade classrooms have a “bank” where the class earns minutes that they can periodically “spend” on a time to play a special game or do a special project. I also have students celebrate their good work by visiting a previous teacher or the principal or whomever they have a relationship at the school other than me. Just ideas – again you’ll come up with whatever positives would motivate your kids. They could help you brainstorm ideas for this part.

4. Tell them your whole plan, then invite questions/feedback from students, but don’t promise to change anything based on their feedback. Tell them you’ll take their ideas into consideration for now. They need to know it’s your system and you’re in charge.

5. Starting right then, that day, ENFORCE YOUR SYSTEM. Try to catch yourself when you are debating whether to give someone a consequence, and then ALWAYS GIVE THE CONSEQUENCE. Remember, EVERY infraction, no matter how small, gets a consequence. If there are too many kids not following the directions, pick one or two to make an example of, and clearly give them a consequence (don’t worry, you won’t have to do this for long). When I have done this in the past, I usually alert the office staff that I am doing a management reset, and as a result they may see a flood of students coming to the office with referrals for a week or so. It will feel at first like you are giving out way too many consequences. Don’t worry – it will taper off as the kids adjust to your new expectations.

6. In enforcing, something that has worked for me comes from Lee Canter’s management system. I say to my students, “THESE ARE THE DIRECTIONS.” Then I give the directions (e.g., “Take out your white board and come to the rug”). Then I immediately look for 3–5 students who are following the directions and I narrate that to the whole class (“Daniel is taking out his white board. Alexa has her white board and is coming to the rug. Eddy is come to the rug with his white board.” Etc.) After 3–5 narrations, I give a consequence to anyone not following directions, starting with, “THE DIRECTIONS WERE…” (eg, “Alondra, you have a warning. The directions were to take out your white board and come to the rug.”) Really there’s no excuse at that point for anyone not following the directions as not only have they heard you say the directions, they’ve heard you tell them about 3–5 people who are following the directions, and they’ve heard someone get a consequence for not following the directions. At that point they’ve heard the directions at least 5 times. Again, this sounds draconian, but if you do this religiously for 3–4 weeks it will get faster and easier!

7. Don’t give up! Teaching is hard. It gets easier. But it’s still really hard. The incredible challenge is part of what makes it great, right? Your reflectiveness and desire to improve is 90% of the battle!!

PS – If your school is off this week for Thanksgiving break, the Monday when you get back could be a good time for the management reset. Or you could try to grin and bear it until winter break, and do your reset the first day back in January. Sometimes having been away for a week or two makes the reset easier! But if you’re at your breaking point, don’t wait, do it now.

PPS (sorry!) – If you are on good terms with your principal you could also ask him/her to sit in with you during your “reset” conversations with your classes. S/he can provide an extra note of authority and his/her presence will convey to the students that your new system goes “all the way up” and is sanctioned and understood by the principal’s office. I did this one year and it was very helpful to have my principal there!

I wanted to add that I think there is nothing wrong with having a very fun assignment that relates to the classwork, or even might not, that lets all the kids and you get to know each other.

Or, some sort of positive reinforcement like a field trip or movie for good behavior. Not everything has to be punishment and negative reinforcement.

I find people in west TN to be very punitive oriented, I am not accustomed to that. We behaved well without some big threat of punishment. We wanted to do the right thing generally. I am not sure what came first here, the chicken or the egg? Do people need to have harsh punishment because their kids are out ofncontrol? Or, are kids out of control because all they get is negative reinforcement.

A friend of mine taught high school in MS just outside of Memphis for years, she grew up there, and then she moved to St. Louis, and she said the difference in the school and the children was drastic. The things she pointed out that caught her attention, which I found kind of interesting were: in St. Louis she learned kids who don’t tuck in their shirts can be well behaved, detention works as well as corporal punishment, a child not saying, “yes ma’am,” when called on can still be respectful. That was the first I learned that corporal punishment was legal in public schools in some states, I never would have imagined it. She said the children in St. Louis were much more knowledgable of current events, asked more question, were more pensive in general. She does think some of it had to do with the families, and part with how the school was run itself.

One more question, sorry, you said at the top you lasted longer than anyother sub in the Memphis school, do you feel the children learned nothing when you were there? That it was not successful at all being nice and friendly?

If you are going to be in control, you can’t be all hat and no cattle. When some chucklehead cuts up, you tell the whole class they will share in the punishment. They will have extra assignments that they must do, or suffer a failing grade for the week, courtesy of student, bla bla. After a time the students themselves will police that chucklehead because they will get tired of him/her causing them more work. In addition you can make that chucklehead stand up in the back of the room.

I think the most important thing is to be consistent and firm. You can definitely still be a friend to your students – I’ve had teachers who were both strict and quite lovely – but you have to make sure they don’t lose sight of who is in charge of the class. If you have a rule, every person who breaks it must be on the receiving end of the consequences put in place. If someone doesn’t turn in their work and has no legitimate excuse for it, they have to know that it’s their grade that is suffering, and that they’re harming themselves. Let them know that you’re there to help them, but they have to work with you to make any progress.

Also, try to sound very sure of yourself, especially when employing disciplinary action. It’s one thing to have a kid write lines or something, but don’t tell them to in a resigned way. Some teachers can do everything they’re supposed to in terms of disciplining bad behavior, but they don’t seem very sure about their system while doing it.

I do think your desire to be a friend to them is good, though. I think a lot of kids get discouraged and lose interest in their work when they have an overbearing teacher. Learning is important, but I think courtesy goes a long way too. Always be fair, but take charge. Good luck! Sounds like a tough job, but I’m sure you’ll earn their respect and do very well.

You know, sometimes when you talk to a student on an individual basis, it really helps out. Because when kids are all together, they feel like they are whatever their peers reflect to be. So by singling them out, maybe to go over their grades one by one maybe during a reading session or whatever it is they have to do, it will give them more of a relationship with you. Remember inner city kids most likely come from families with single families, druggy parents, broken homes etc.

@kalrbing Maybe this will make you feel better…tales from school! We have this one Fine Arts lesson where the students watch musicals (movies) from the 30’s, when they first came out, up to present day. Well, one of the musicals choices from the 70’s is ‘Grease’. The students have a worksheet they fill out along the way.
One of the questions is “What is Rizzo’s real name?”
The correct answer is “Betty.”
One of my students wrote “Stockton Channing.”
ROFL! Sometimes you just have to give it to them!
Of course, the question needs to be re-worded for clarity, but I got a kick out of it! : )

@kalrbing I’m actually applying for Teachers’ College for next year and I am NOT looking forward to some of the problems you’re facing. I’m 23 right now, and I’ll be around 24–25 when I start teaching, but I still have the mentality of a 16 y/o and I’m a little worried about the kids running me over as well.

I haven’t read all the replies. Sorry if this is a repeat suggestion ; )
I’d say kids in general hate homework and pop quizzes. Since homework would be more difficult to enforce and make sure gets done, I would give them pop quizzes when they started chatting. I’d tell them since they obvious know the material and feel no need to listen… we’ll just have a pop quiz <smile> (always smile lol) I’d tell them the quizzes will continue until the chit chat ceases completely.
I’m not a teacher, though, so I have no idea if there are regulations to follow or limits as to how many quizzes/tests can be given.
My niece was a fresh out of college first year teacher last year. She is teaching 7th & 8th grade history in a very small community. I will ask her when I see her : )
psst @Dutchess_III… it’s Stockard Channing… : P