Should the government have a say in what we name our children no matter how crazy?

Yes the government should intervene and not allow inappropriate names. Statistically students with “odd” names get into trouble more often. I also think that using a name which is offensive to the majority of the population is inflamatory.

The people who are named in that article had more issues than just poor naming of their offspring. They have been cited by the state authorities as being neglectful of their children and intellectually impaired. Perhaps this is reflected in their choice of child names.

^ GA. Said it all.

If the name is racist or offensive, yes. If its just stupid, no.

“Last year, an appeals court ruled the couple suffered physical and psychological disabilities that put the children at risk. The court did not specify the nature of the disabilities.”

It doesn’t appear that they took the children because of the questionable name. And, no, I don’t think that giving your kid a stupid name is reason to take away custody.

I won’t mind personally if they named their kid, Fuck Hitler. ( thanks for posting this question at Social )

Yes, many people are just not suited to be parents.

I think a case could be made that naming a child something very offensive is a kind of child abuse. They’re setting that kid up for a lifetime of trouble. Obviously, in this case, it’s about more than the name, anyway.

I would say there are other things going on here than just a name if the kid was taken away.

We have a naming committee. I’m sure I mentioned this before.

Here it is http://www.lovdata.no/all/hl-20020607-019.html

You could read it easily enough with google translate, I think.

Any parent who names their kid after the infamous dictator clearly has issues & has no feelings towards the child’s welfare at all. By definition alone, they must be declared incompetent as far as raising a child is concerned.

Great Caesar’s ghost, be it Egbert, Wolf Gang, Lance, Rex, or Adolf Hitler, there are enough terrible names to go around for a kid. If we start yanking kids from homes because the parents named them something questionable or very odd, where will we go next? Maybe we can yank the kids away from the parents when,
• The kids become drug addicts under the age of 18yr.
• When parents buy or allow their kids to smoke.
• When they allow their kids to get high or wasted in the home, under the guise it is safer for them, that they are not in no seedy house or back ally. If they overdose, or something, mom and pop are right there to dial 911.
• When kids are hanging out on the street past eleven at night, and doing crime, or participating in illegal stuff like side shows.
• Parent whose daughter are the neighborhood bicycle (everyone gets a ride), and she gets knocked up.
• Parents who can’t, or don’t stop there kids from being bullies.

We can start there, and get creative as to where to go next.

The role of government is to do (legally) what we cannot do on our own. Naming of children is something that doesn’t reach either threshold. If the government can step in and say no about a name for a baby then maybe they should intervene when many “ethnic” or stripper names are bestowed upon youth in America. These people can have a harder time receiving call backs and job offers.

I would rather the government stay out of these types of things, but as @augustlan said, it is abusive to saddle a child with a name like this. In the rare case where these choices rise to the level of abuse, we must protect the child, this is clearly one of those cases, the child will be picked on from the jump and is destined for trouble. Other parents will, reasonably IMO, want to keep their kids away from this child. In short no good, only bad can come to this boy as a result of his name. Without even reading the extra links provided, an argument could also easily be made that these parents are not putting the best interest of their child first.

In New Zealand a child named Talula Does The Hula From Hawaii was taken from her parents because the girl herself was allegedly so horrified with her name. This name is just goofy, not inflammatory, I can only imagine what this little guy will have to deal with.

You have to be very careful what is offensive to one may not be to another by being selective you are favouring one group over another. Hitler is obviously offensive but some might find Israel or Mohamed also offensive. I believe the Czech Republic government still practices control over first names.

It is none of the government’s business what I name my children, or a thousand other things! The government intrudes into every aspect of our lives now, telling us what we can eat, where we can smoke, who we can marry, what kind of clothes we have to wear… everything except how to take a dump, and I’m sure they’re trying to figure out how to control THAT too!

Nope, not really their business.

Seriously? No.

What the hell gives the damned government the right to tell me I can or cannot do something ( other than the obvious cannots, like murder )? The government can kiss my lily-white Swedish ass!

I don’t believe either child was taken from the home simply based on the name given them. The choosing of such names for your baby is obviously a symptom of a much larger endemic family/social problem. Talula sought herself a lawyer at the age of 9 to force her parents to change her name. Social workers did not yank her from her home and file an abuse case against the parents. In fact, the issue came to the notice of the court because her parents were in a custody battle over her. New Zealand officials said they did have the power to block outlandish names. Names rejected by the office include Fish and Chips, Yeah Detroit, Stallion, Twisty Poi, Keenan Got Lucy and Sex Fruit.

Don’t just read the headlines. This couple who named their kids with Nazi inspired names have lost custody of ALL their children back in 2009, and now, that they had a newborn named Hons (they spelled it wrong.), he was taken as well because they have been deemed unfit parents. The court ruled that they have physical and psychological problems.

Really? Come one people. Having someone to protect the kids from this stupidity is important.

My father worked in the enlistment centers for a while for the Army. He changed peoples names on a regular basis because they were Hispanic, so he gave them their father’s last name instead of their mother’s. Don’t tell me the US government doesn’t change people’s names when it suits them, they just got it around the wrong way. Instead of using it to protect the innocent kids from the fu’d up parents, they use it to impose Anglo values on other cultures.

@CaptainHarley I mean, I agree, and I think the government intervenes too much as it is, but Aryan Nation? That’s first off not even a name, that and Adolf Hitler are just asking for these kids to get their asses beat constantly, and like other people said it signifies suuccchhhhh way bigger problems….

@deni

And none of it is the Federal Government’s business. It is not the government’s responsibility to protect children from having their feelings hurt.

@CaptainHarley I agree with that too….but child abuse is not okay, doesn’t giving your kid a name that is almost certainly going to cause them harm in the future kind of fall under the same category???? I’m kind of just playing devil’s advocate, but at the same time….you gotta draw the line somewhere. What if some white crackhead gave birth and named her kid Nigger?

@CaptainHarley yeah, that’s right, let the kids get picked on and emotionally damaged because what we need in America are more dysfunctional human beings.

I can do sarcasm, too.

@cazzie

Whoop-te-do, good for you. Since WHEN is it the government’s responsibility to keep children from being :“emotionally damaged?” Where is that in the Constitution? Or perhaps it’s in the Bill of Rights? Or maybe the Declaration of Independence? Your emotions, like most else in life, ARE YOUR OWN BUSINESS! Try to get that through that PC brain of yours!

Nope. Society will put those people on their place.

PC brain? How about a brain that doesn’t live in the USA and is glad for it? so quoting bits of paper at me that have no hold on me is quite not-the-point, is it?

What most people discover in their lives is that emotions, albeit a personal thing, tend to flow over into our actions. Emotions drive us to do what we do. Whether we enjoy going to school because it is a good experience for us, or whether we bring an automatic weapon with us to shoot that asshole teacher or fellow student that keeps making fun of us because the emotion is ANGER instead of HAPPY. Emotion is ours. The actions they lead to affect many many people.

I’d just rather not have to deal with more emotionally constipated or crippled people in my community than I absolutely have to because they are the drug addicts, the kids who bully my child, who suck from the social welfare system and try to steal my purse while I’m eating my lunch in town. You must like dealing with them, because you seem to want to encourage their multiplication because it’s their ‘RIGHT’ to raise their kids as they see fit. Again, I reiterate, naming a child Hitler is a symptom of a larger problem. Any parent who does that is obviously not in their right mind and needs a closer look. No one has the right to abuse a child, and putting a name on them that will shame them and socially ostracise them is abuse.

“Intellectually impaired”....haha Ya think?

Good grief…it is true, stupid is forever.

They ought to sterilize them too while they’re at it.

So shoot me…I could care less about being PC in cases like this.

Fools and their foolishness.

@cazzie, in the country where you live, don’t you have law enforcement to handle the people who try to steal your purse while you are eating lunch or administration policies and teachers to handle your child at school or drugs addicts wandering your streets?

@bkcunningham

LMAO! If you want to file a report about a stolen purse, be our guest. The police might get to it sometime next month!

Somebody tries to steal your purse, pull your 357 Magnum and blow their shit away!

No, I don’t think they should.

Johnny Cash wrote a song about the subject of naming kids inappropriately. If people give their lids names that will haunt them chances are they are shit people and won’t have those kids for long anyway because they are probably twisted in other areas in their lives as well. The govt does have the right to remove minors from bad parents. It would be tied to neglect.

@CaptainHarley but what if the gun was in the purse?

Remember how bent out of shape people got when Cassius Clay changed his name? Look at the problems with the name Barry Soetoro selected. Words are powerful. Names are important. People should have a right to name their children or themselves whatever they decide. What is in a name? That which we call a rose, By any other name…oh, never mind. Say good night Gracie.

This couple shouldn’t be allowed to raise their children, considering that the first decision they made for their child will result in constant torment and abuse all their lives.
Do we let these parents home school the kids? What kind of people will their kids grow up to be? Do we wait until they have killed someone to step in?
This is not an easy question. Parents have rights, and taking their children is a serious issue.
I am trying to balance that against the child’s right to a normal social life.
I realize normal is conjective.

@bkcunningham yes, but if law enforcement has to be involved, that means we have failed as a society, and if we all have to walk around with guns, we have failed most certainly.

@bkcunningham, Good Night, Gracie! ;0)

@cazzie

We have indeed “failed most certainly,” but even if we hadn’t, the right to own and carry a gun is one of the most fundamental rights, and the one which guarantees all the others.

@filmfann

One man’s “normal” is another man’s abnormal. The Branch Dividians believed some weird shit, but that was their right to believe as they chose. They did not deserve the end they met at the hands of the BATF ( now the BATFE ).

I think that parents shouldn’t be allowed to give children names that are swear words. If the child’s name would have to be bleeped out when announced on the radio or a kid could get a detention in school just saying the kid’s name, it’s a no-go, no questions asked. To me, this is more of a safety issue. You couldn’t do an Amber alert on a kid whose name you couldn’t even say on the airwaves.

On the matter of names like “Adolf Hitler” I think that you might be able to argue that it’s a form of mental abuse. I don’t think it should be enough reason alone to remove a kid from custody, but if there are several signs of abuse or neglect, you could add an abusive name for the child onto the pile of charges.

I don’t really want to jump into the fray of the current argument, but come on. There has to be miles of gray area between, “Name kids whatever the hell you want, it’s America, by God” and “Go to prison for naming your kid Jym, because that’s weird.”

This is a matter for the individual states, not the federal regulationists, if it is to be addressed at all.

Those in favor of censoring the names private citizens may select for their children, let me ask you this. Do you think the mods on Fluther should be able to censor names people use on Fluther? If you say yes, think about this. If I were a mod here, there are a couple of names I find offensive. Those users would have to select different names because the user name offends me and I think the names should be a flag and offend anyone with good sense.

@bkcunningham Do mods censor names? They can’t censor the names I call some of them in my head, so that’s OK with me. But we’re grown ups, choosing names for ourselves. Not even relevant in this argument.

We aren’t allowed to do anything we want to children. There are minimum standards of care we are required to give. It’s not your god given right as an American to mentally, physically or emotionally abuse your children because you’re allowed to do whatever you want in the name of freedom.

There ARE names that you could argue are abusive to give to a child. Some are more obvious than others. You do have to consider that you’re not naming a pet. You’re naming a person. If you name a human being “Jackass” it’s going to do all kinds of damage to their psyche getting called that all the time. Would you like a name that people use as an insult to others?

This isn’t a matter of being PC and hurting the feelings of people who don’t like Adolph Hitler. It’s a matter of considering that getting called Hitler may actually screw the kid up in a major way. And while I don’t think that the name alone is enough to constitute abuse, I think if the kid is acting like he’s really screwed up, the name may be one of many reasons.

It really does stand to reason that someone who didn’t consider the social stigma a child would have to endure with a name like that would probably be screwing up lots of other things while they are parenting. It is probably the first of many red flags that should indicate that the parents are probably not up for the job.

@bkcunningham Not that I think it’s analogous, but mods do disallow certain usernames. No profanity allowed, nothing obscene.

I just wanted to say, in direct response to the question, except for words banned by the FCC, no name at all should be outright illegal. And the main reason for that is because of safety issues for the child.

I also think some names involving genitalia or sexual terms could be considered sexual abuse. And maybe you could argue banning those right off the bat. But even then, there are some weird gray areas. Like Vagena is pretty darned close to another word. And while I think their parents deserve a major slap upside the head for it, I am not sure if it would really constitue as child abuse.

All other names are fair game from the get-go. BUT if the child shows signs of emotional abuse, and the name is questionable, you could argue that the name is a form of abuse. You’d have to make a strong case for it, but I think it should be in consideration.

@keobooks

Please make your case in state or local courts. The feds have more than they can handle just coming up with a damned BUDGET! Heh!

Why do people always assume FEDERAL when people say government? I didn’t see anything about federal government in the original question.

I would like to know which local politician is going to take a stand that you could name a kid “rhymes with trucker” in their district, though.

In the massiveness that is the USA, I can see these things dealt with on a county by county basis, where the birth certificates are issued. We have 6 months to name our children and that seems plenty of time to sort out any historical or cultural confusion about a name choice, or time to counsel the parents about what a name means to a child if their initial choice is crazy bad.

I keep coming back to edit too late. I don’t think many Americans understand how naming laws in other countries work. I kind of do, because I got fascinated with it as a kid in the early 80s, This was when some British parents made international news because they tried to name their daughter Princess and they were banned from it. In the UK at the time, you were not allowed to name your infants a noble or royal title. You wouldn’t go to jail or anything. The birth certificate was rejected and sent back for an invalid name. That kind of thing is unheard of in the US.

I found out that MANY other countries have national naming laws. Most of my info is likely out of date by now. I remember that in Germany in the 80’s you were required to name your child a name where the gender of the child was obvious. You were NOT allowed to name your child a gender ambiguous name. You were NOT allowed to name your child of the opposite gender. The birth certificate would get rejected and sent back.

In Japan, there was a list of syllables parents were allowed to use to name their children. One was for boys and the other was for girls. If you did not name the child with the correct set of syllables, the name was rejected.

There were many European countries that forbade you to name your child a name a foreign name. The name had to be native to the country of origin unless the parents were from another country. Then the parents were only allowed to name the children a name from their original country of origin.

—

None of this applies to the original case mentioned. There was no federal government involvement. The name was not rejected and the birth certificate made invalid. The name was flagged for a possible form of abuse and an investigation was opened. That’s a world of difference between a federal law banning certain names.

@keobooks did you see the link I provided to the Norwegian laws regarding naming a child?

Let me elaborate on my thinking on this topic.

It is my considered opinion that, in almost all cases, parents should be free to name their child anything they want, provided the name isn’t obscene or racially antagonistic. It is also my opinion that parents should be allowed to challange a particular name being forbidden. All laws governing behavior should be applied at the state or local level insofar as possible.

My approach on this is consonant with my general political position that maximum freedom is guaranteed by the US Constitution, consonant with laws that have been proven to be necessary ( and my definition of “necessary” is very narrow indeed ).

How’s that?

@CaptainHarley there is that more reasonable, ‘Swedish ass’ coming out in your again…

ROFLMAO!!!!! Why, THANK YOU! : D

Agreed. @CaptainHarley.

@cazzie I took a glance at that site and no, I didn’t bother translating it. I am sure it would interest me. Maybe later.