Is it possible Jesus survived the crucifixion and went on to preach to other nations?

Didn’t they pierce his side with a spear at the end, and clear fluid ran out, indicating a ruptured heart?

That’s what the Bible claims, yes but I’ve never heard “ruptured heart.” Shows what I know about anatomy.

That was just some medical diagnosis I came across somewhere. I have no clue to it’s validity.

Link on the book? Even if it’s true, it would hardly matter now I guess. I’m more inclined to believe that he planned his death along with his disciples to make sure his teachings live on.

@mazingerz88 He planned , at a young age, such a horrendous death believing his teachings would endure? Sounds a little drastic to me.

@Adirondackwannabe Just looked it up. Said the piercing of the side ruptured the lungs releasing the fluid that had built up from the experience. Plural effusion it’s called.

@Aster That makes sense. Fluid in the lungs is clear.

But then, if the gospel accounts are so utterly false concerning this crucial (find the hidden pun) aspect, what reason would there be to believe anything else that’s said about Jesus? What reason would there be to accept any of the extraordinary claims made about his life? Why would he not have been just one more wandering teacher? In which case, who cares? India, where this alternative theory supposes he went, was virtually crawling with guys teaching stuff not so very different.

Is the book you reference the Book of Mormon? The LDS church believes that after the resurrection Jay Cee went to the Americas and preached to the inhabitants there.

@thorninmud I’ve heard this argument so many times. I see nothing wrong or strange about believing parts of the Bible but writing off other parts to legend or plain lies. If history books can be argued with surely it’s reasonable to argue with 2 thousand year old writings by uneducated men some having their own agenda.

@AstroChuck no; I was speaking only of how they begin their prayers.

Sure, but how then do you know what’s a fabrication?

@thorninmud I don’t believe anyone can know what was a fabrication. We each choose for ourselves which parts we believe are facts unless we’re fundamentalists. Then , in that case, we have a problem with the various nic picking of the first 3 books of the New Testament that differ in details. Doesn’t bother me a bit.

How does that process of deciding what to take for a fact work? I read about a group of biblical scholars who analyzed the gospel manuscripts, looking specifically at the words that were attributed to Jesus, to see if they could come to some consensus on which words he actually spoke. Very little of the text actually was determined to be from Jesus’ mouth with a high degree of certainty (of the “Lord’s Prayer”, for instance, only “Our Father, who art in heaven” is almost certainly authentic).

Is it, then, just a matter of taking what sounds inspiring, whether or not it really came from Jesus?

@thorninmud Depends on the person what he believes. I can’t make a blanket statement on it. There are probably inspiring things that may or may not have been said. I can see you’re having problems with this but you’re not alone. It could take decades before you have any firm beliefs. You will never be able to pick apart each line and know who said it or if it was ever said. But in time you may be able to formulate a belief system that gives you a sense of peace.

Let’s see crucifixion and a punctured lung? I doubt he’d survive, tension pneumo thorax is a nasty way to go.

Believe me, I don’t have a problem with it. Quite the contrary—I’m Buddhist, but neither I nor any Buddhist I know takes all the events or dialog recorded in the suttras as being historical fact. Whether any of that stuff actually happened as written has no effect whatsoever on the actual practice of Buddhism. I could learn tomorrow that there never was a historical person corresponding to the account of the Buddha, and that wouldn’t matter in the least.

It seems to me, though, that Christianity does very much hinge on the matter of whether or not certain words or events actually happened. Is that the way you see it?

He came to earth to conquer sin and wipe the slate clean for humanity. The crucifixion was the rescue mission that makes us eligible for salvation. Jesus volunteered to pay the death penalty to satisfy Holy justice, which enables righteousness on our behalf. For this to make sense to the mind, one has to accept the Biblical facts of God, Satan, mankind and the whole Good News account.

Didn’t people witness his “resurrection”? Hard to play dead for 3 days and then reappear totally healed.

@thorninmud It is true that the concept of Jesus being God hinges on whether or not he rose again. Died then disappeared into the heavens by a miracle.

@tinyfaery played dead? I don’t know about that. But remember that if a person is in a horrific carwreck with multiple broken bones and a concussion they can “appear healed’ with medical treatment and do so, eventually. His being seen on the Damascus Road is another Biblical tale that may or may not have occurred.

Just speaking to surviving a crucifixion, could it have been survived? Yes. It was often meant as a slow death, provided someone was able to unmount and treat the victim, a crucified person could survive, though that’s not to say it would’ve been likely.

It would have to be done quickly and obviously out of sight to avoid exposure, further debilitation, and additional crucifixions (or worse for the victim and their would-be saviors). Other serious punishments such as shattering the legs, impaling, scourging, etc. would likely have to have been forgone. Then there’s the risk of infection from having nails and spikes driven through the body at various points and other untreated and/or open wounds.

Needless to say, possible doesn’t make it probable – the victim would’ve needed a lot of good fortune, which clearly they didn’t have in abundance to start with.

Exc answer, @wonderingwhy . He would have to have been treated in the tomb given to him. But I don’t think the Romans would have allowed anyone in there. So he would have been treated , on an ongoing basis, by women? who would go inside in the middle of the night . Then you get to the problem of the guards. We are told there were guards and a big stone; not sure if this happened. But to be well enough with just three treatments to be helped away from the tomb for safekeeping seems far=fetched. And even if he were taken away it seems unlikely no one would have known and spread the word of his whereabouts. I have never read a report of Him teaching in other lands and being described as someone with awful wounds, either.

@Aster Assuming Jesus was a mere mortal and the most brilliant spiritual philosopher the world has ever known, I don’t see it past him to realize that if he died of natural causes, his legacy might not live on. His best chance was having an unforgettable exit. To be killed so his followers could claim he had risen.

If Jesus was really good at anything, he understands how the human brain works. He did not even need to show himself to Pontius Pilate or go to Rome to show that indeed he had risen. He just needed a strong story of resurrection for his disciples to claim had happened and were willing to be executed as well for declaring so.

Again, this is assuming Jesus was not really a god capable of being resurrected. If this is the case, then clearly his disciples who claimed who saw him all lied in a bold sacrificial attempt to immortalize their spiritual teachings. Just recently, I stumbled on this phrase while reading a book I recently purchased.

“Greater love hath no man than this: that he lay down his life for his friends” – The Gospel according to St. John

@mazingerz88 “assuming Jesus was a mere mortal and the most brilliant spiritual philosopher the world has ever known…...” Who assumes That? It actually never entered my brain to look at Jesus in that way. Are you kidding? I cannot accept that anyone mortal would succumb to what he did to make a point or create a legacy.
“He understood how the human mind works.” He did?? You think so? It never entered my brain to think Jesus knew how the human mind works.
If he had Really desired an “unforgettable exit” a crucifixion wouldn’t have cut it; it was so common back then. A resurrection at least was unforgettable, obviously.

The point of the resurrection was to conquer death. Though it was a great catalyst for faith. It was not actually the point.

I wont repeat the well made arguments of getting stabbed in the lung and that finishing him if her were not dead already.

My statement will focus on the culture and the why the death was necessary.

The culture was Hebrew and Jesus was Hebrew, the initial church was Hebrew. Their beliefs were Hebrew and their traditions which were built around their beliefs were all Hebrew. Jesus didn’t toss out the beliefs, He came to fulfill them.

The Hebrews, also known as Jews, believed that both personal error and inherited error separated humans from their creator and that separation came in the form of death of body and death of soul. However, that the creator would send a redeemer to conquer death and restore their soul back to a relationship with their creator. They called this the messiah, and Jews still believe the messiah is coming, Christians believe he has come, Jesus.

Jesus is the Greek form of our name Joshua, both have the same meaning, He who saves. It is a common name, but it was instructed to be giving to Mary’s son versus giving to her son because she thought the name was cool.

The curses of sin (or simply error or mistakes,) based on the Leviticus law are “passed” father to child, so by not having an earthly father, there would be not inherent sin. Then by living a life perfect of sin he would be capable of being the perfect “payment” of sin. but because he is god and the creator of life, he would not and could not be controlled by death or held in captivity of death. He must completely die, in order to be the payment of sin. He must completely conquer death to restore himself and all of us back to life. Not that our bodies will not die but that our souls can live for ever. This was his aim, not just a great religion, but a complete restoration of his people not just the Jews because not just the Jews are effected by death but of all people.

Every culture since the beginning of time, whether they believe in the Judao-Christian God or not, Knows that our souls were built for immortality, and that something must be done to restore them to that immortality.

This was/is the solution. A perfect payment for all the errors of our humanity, and a complete overcoming of the ultimate captivity.

@Aster I do assume it. Being agnostic myself. Try to read again what John said. And why wouldn’t he had the ability to understand how humans think? Wouldn’t that be a fair assumption?

Like I indicated, IF he is not god, a possible explanation of why he allowed himself to be crucified and killed is to create a legacy of doing the greatest sacrifice of all. And turned out he was right. How many Christians, instead of denouncing him, got slaughtered? His legacy lives on in the hearts and minds of all Christians today, 2010 years after his death.

As for his resurrection, naturally, the fervent faithful would never ask or doubt if that really happened. Faith is faith. No need to see, just believe.

Also, in response to the post directly above, as an agnostic, I tend to think that Jesus may have started a religion intended for the Jews only. If not for that supposed encounter between Paul and God on his way to Damascus, only Jews can be Christians.

If he was stabbed in the chest puncturing his lung, he’d have to have gotten medical treatment almost immediately. That lung would have collapsed as air rushed in filling that lung’s cavity. This would create enough pressure to start “tilting” the entire respitory system which would have the visible sign of his adams apple appearing tilted. This tilting would also put pressure on the heart. Every time he exhaled, more air would rush into his lung cavity until either: a, his heart stopped beating; or b, he’s suffers from aphyxiation because he can’t inhale anymore. Tension pneumo thorax. It’s a nasty way to go.

I mean, some people think he went on down to Japan..