Why aren't we over racism?

Word.^
We seem to be natural born essentialists, and our inherent tribalism is tough to get away from—for many. Damn evolution. I just think we’re all earthlings and it’s about time we play nice. Oh the generalizations the some may make…

@everephebe Let’s untangle what you’re saying…how do you imagine the jump from essentialism to tribalism? are they one and the same?

And by untangle, do you mean you want to play with my hair? :p
There are not one and the same, but the leap is a short one. I’ll elaborate: Tribalism separates, and Essentialism categorizes those separations… Essentialism is an iteration of Tribalism. An evolution if you will. This is just my line of reasoning though.

@everephebe How does this leap occur? Is the leap inherent, as well?

Kentucky: Why go down the street, when you can down the hall.

If you get what I mean.

That’s all that I have to say about that.

Catigorizations can be helpful: This fruit is good to eat, the trees like this are good for shade, the people to the north like to throw spears at us, etc. When you couple Tribalistic thought, and I use the term very broadly here, with the formative nature of Essentialism… trouble can brew. I don’t think the leap is inherent as such… Well, I do think we will always have some form of Essentialist thought, but hopefully the racist/sexist/istist aspects of it will fade with time.

@everephebe Why would they fade?

@Jude I don’t get what you mean.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir You know, progress… the internet, science, the old racists dying out, the fact the races don’t even exist (for humans), the melting pots of large cities, civil rights being improved, more women in power, the connectivity of the planet, more people traveling, and suchness.

@everephebe All of it is good to imagine, makes me smile to read…even…I’m just skeptical that these particular movements will lead to eradication of racism…there will no end to racism as there is no end to god or gender.

I just don’t know. Disregarding the people that are actually just stupid, maybe some people are really misinformed and uneducated about deeper problems.

Some people think whites are better because of their domination throughout history. Their reasoning is that clearly white people are better because they are everywhere and they’ve done so much etc. And they just leave it there and don’t care about the why, how, when etc.

Then they see the opposite with other races: Africa is in a bad state, african americans aren’t doing so well in general, so clearly it must be them doing this to themselves. The Middle East isn’t doing so well, either, so clearly it must be the Arab race etc.

It’s like they see everything at face value and use that to make judgements.

One thing that always bothered me in the media is how they make simple statements about socioeconomic issues, but offer no explanation. Like they are just “putting it out there” to remind people: Oh, by the way, blacks commit more crime and do worse in school. Then they just leave it at that. So if these statistics are always thrown around with no explanation, people will just think “Well, I guess it’s just how they are…”

From my experience with racism and racist people, it always seemed to me that they were extremely misinformed.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Give it a few hundred years… if we have that long… that is. I mean I’m a godless, genderqueer, whitey who doesn’t happen to be racist, and I’m from Southern Illinois. :D

@everephebe You’re swell. :) Let’s have unracist genderqueer babies together.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I would, but I’m not sure how I feel about playing my part in increasing the population. :p

@everephebe Yeah, I know…but then I think about how the Duggars are pregnant with their 20th and figure their team is winning.

I’ve read a theory (don’t know if I buy it though) that some of the underlying psychology of racism came about by natural selection. It is a function of our “programmed” desire to advance our own genes…we see people who look similar to ourselves (and are therefore more genetically similar to ourselves) as people we want to protect, moreso than people who look different, anyway.

If this is true, my hope is that people can try to be self-aware enough to consciously override the “programming.”

@Mariah Even if that is true, I would think the idea would influence who we choose to reproduce with, but it would not mean we have to hate those who are different than us. Or, what do you think?

@JLeslie It could motivate our choice of partners but also our choice of who we feed, protect from attack, etc.

@Mariah That is interesing actually. When I was watching a show on happiness Denmark was the happiest country on earth. The reporter stated that he believed it being a very homogenous country, race, religion, etc, was part of the reasons. He theorized that people do not mind helping those they identify with, and so a strong social system provided by the government was readily accepted.

Someone here asked ‘what do you just not get?’ and one of the key things I just cannot get my head around is racism. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I wish I could give a more scientific, profound response, but I just do not get it and consequently I have no idea why it exists or how to get rid of it. To me it is about power and greed and conceitedness and those things still exist.

I watch and read about some (not all) Aboriginal people living in poverty in the Northern Territory (and other areas of Australia). With limited power, water, education, health care and I live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. I just cannot believe if those people were white that they would be living in those conditions and I can’t make sense of why after over 200 years, we can’t make sure everyone here has the same chances in life.

I know some people will call me a bleeding heart liberal, well so be it. If not being able to accept this makes me a bleeding heart liberal then yep, I hold my hand up ‘bleeding heart liberal’ here but I am no racist and I cannot understand why two percent of our population cannot have the same benefits as everyone else. And I cannot agree that it is all their fault. And if anyone thinks they should send me a direct message saying ‘you can’t help those who won’t help themselves’ please don’t because I don’t appreciate that racist claptrap.

@Bellatrix Do the Aborginal people take advantage of the education when they do have access? Are there any cultural norms holding them back themselves? I agree with you, it should be equal for all in your country, we have the same troubles in America.

As long as there are visible differences between the racial groups, there will always be racism. If all the people in the world were of one race and homogenous, there wouldn’t be racism. But then people would find something else to pick on. It’s human nature to be pick on things that look different from the “norm” or the “majority”.

Humans probably will never get over racism because it is a fact that not everyone could end up being equal in intellect, equal in possessing perceived desirable physical features and similar social conditioning and upbringing.

It is a complicated situation @JLeslie. If you live in remote regions getting children to school is difficult and some of those reasons are about dysfunctional families etc. and yes, education is without doubt one of the key elements in helping to reduce poverty. According to Australian Bureau of Statistics data 47% of Indigenous children complete the final years of school compared to 79% of non-Indigenous young people. That is Australia wide.

Some challenges include the fact that in remote areas an Indigenous language may be the child’s primary language and the available teacher may not speak that language or have sufficient cultural knowledge to work effectively with the children. Government policy has also been changed to say the majority of schooling should take place in English. This report argues we need to ensure Indigenous children whose first language is not English, should receive teaching from qualified ESL practitioners. If we don’t make sure children have the right English language tuition, how can they take advantage of education offered in English? We can’t disregard their right to speak their own languages though.

There may also be family problems that prevent children from attending. The level of schooling available may not be comparable to other areas of Australia. We may be talking very remote areas. One of the things that keeps Indigenous young people away from school is the lack of recognition of Indigenous culture and really, if you live in cramped conditions with limited access to basic things like water and electricity, getting to school might not be high on the agenda. The report attached here gives a long list of reasons why Indigenous children may not succeed at school.

For me though, there is no justification for seeing people living in those conditions. Along with education, we have to make sure people have access to reasonable housing, water and electricity. I watched a TV program a few months about the building of homes in Indigenous communities and there were problems like builders using the wrong sort of shower head so they clogged up or rusted and were useless in no time at all. Overcrowding is also a major concern. In the NT, “38% of Indigenous people live in overcrowded housing”: http://www.hreoc.gov.au/social_justice/statistics/index.html#App2_3". That report has a lot of information.

Sorry this is long and that it took a while to post. I wanted to find some appropriate resources.

In one of the most civil, advanced and even enlightened societies of the twentieth century, an Adolf Hitler was elected and the Holocaust ensued. That was not very long ago, and ironically enough on Yahoo’s homepage today, his sheet’s are fetching a high bidding price today. Today.

Apparently, we are still very far from being a racism-free society. Very, very far.

Fact from fiction, truth from diction. I am no sociologist, so you logically would have a better out look than I. You can get Jim Crow to the lobby but he always gets invited back upstairs.

If I were to hypotheses, I would say different racism spawn from different need. Sometimes that need for racism is fear, money, ego, etc.

Many indigenous people have been the target of racism because they stood in the way of progress. It was all about the buck, and they were inhibiting it.

If you want to wipe a race of people from the planet it helps if you have a cavalier attitude about them, believe you are superior because of your technology, schooling, system of government, greed, etc.

I have seen racism because of fear, not because anyone was afraid of them, but afraid of the change they would make. I have seen people hate Hispanics for fear they will come in and steal the livelihood of Yankees. When in turn, spiral back to money.

I have seen it happen behind ego, or lack of it. Someone believes a certain race is more accepted, attractive, etc. That is why they are more successful, etc. That maybe a particular race has some genetic upper hand at certain sports.

Jim Crow may come in many forms these days but you will never get him from the building as long as someone keeps inviting him back upstairs the moment you thought you had him 3ft from the front door.

I have always perceived racism as a means to shore up one’s own self esteem. Racists find that lowering someone else’s value, raises their own, and bonds them to other’s who share their opinion.

Please consider the antebellum American South as an example. It was a region of tremendous class differences between rich and poor; on par with the feudalistic societies of Europe with large farms worked by black slave labor and whites who were, in essence peasants.

These poor whites did not identify with the black slaves; on the contrary, they volunteered in mass numbers to perpetuate slavery. The South also rediscovered chivalrous notions of conduct for interrelationships between genders.

As a white male peasant, they seemed to take pride and self identity in the glorification of being white male and Christian, as in their minds that was a higher order of being than black persons, indigenous people, and women. That identity, as something better than someone else, became deeply wrapped up in their psyche. It is a pride.

To those who have not accomplished much in their lives, or who are deeply insecure, racism allows some form of powerful psychological security.

@Bellatrix I completely disagree with ESL in school for children who are in Elementary/Primary. They should be completely immersed in well spoken English while at school with no coddling for language difficulties. I feel differently for older children, they should have help with the transition so their studies do not fall behind, and there are more psychological factors. Many children in America speak a different language in their home, and then when they start school are thrust into English. My own neice and nephew are first language Spanish, and when they started school in America were a little miserable sorting the English. Their mom was offered ESL for them at school and she flat out refused, which I agreed with. She also insisted they continue to only speak Spanish at home when they started to prefer English. They are fully bilingual with the expected accents for each language. In America we have the problem that in the areas of the country that speak horrible English, I guess the teachers do too, because so many of these kids never learn proper English.

To bring it all back to the original question though, it seems part of the trouble is the aborigine live in rural areas and have less access. If caucasians were living out there they would have less access too. It is not just race it is circumstance. It’s interesting actually, because in the US most of our poor minorities are in the inner city, although we do have areas of the country that are very rural, very poor, the population tends to be fairly uneducated, but we have areas like that with black and white people.

I hate the situation here as well, I wish there was a simple way to fix it, it seems there isn’t. Or, that is the way it is presented anyway. In our cities many of the poor black populations have fantatsic schools with all the latest stuff, and the schools students still test below white students. However, there are many cases where their schools are in horrible disrepair, don’t get me wrong. There is a push now in America to fix it, to figure it out and get all American students on equal footing. Hopefully it will work. Unfortunately, there is a counter movement to not put money or time into it, with the mantra basically being we shouldn’t have to pay for their kids, and they are beyond help. Makes me sick.

Do the Aborigine have computers in their homes, can the children home school?

Perhaps because it can be used to preceived benefit?

Racism (among other things) allows the easy dehumanization and disregard of whole (inconvenient) groups thus eliminating or marginalizing them from society and allowing the beliefs and ideals of the remaining people to go forward un-(or minimally-)challenged (we’re right, they’re wrong). It also serves to clean the pool as it were, allowing those who remain choice positions, opportunities, and resources they would’ve otherwise had to compete (harder) for (mine, mine, all mine; they don’t deserve it). Its promotion allows easier control over large groups by individuals so it serves a rallying point for political and military functions (us vs. them). It allows the convenient shifting of responsibility (blame them vs fix the problem). The list, sadly, goes on…

There are obvious failings to such attitudes but the human species has proven time and again that just because there are better ways to do something doesn’t mean we’ll avail ourselves of them or do so in a timely manner.

@JLeslie “people do not mind helping those they identify with” – you would think that identifying as human would be unifying but I suppose not.
@MRSHINYSHOES “As long as there are visible differences between the racial groups” – there are visible differences between people, racial groups are artificial categorizations.

@mazingerz88 Are you making a connection between races based on intelligence?

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I’m with you. But, I guess maybe it is saying that the person needs to be able to relate to the other person like they are family? Genetically family. Someine who is not blood related, but at minimum looks like they could be might be accepted. Not sure. I can’t really get into the head of truly racist people. I don’t know how they think I can only guess. I think part of it is each raceis trying to feel better about themselves by thinking ther races are inferior or contemptible? I am just thinking out loud. People attach stereotypes to races, religions, etc., and then decide those people are not as good or worthy.

I don’t buy this “looking out for your own” stuff, either. Well, I know it exists, but the notion is not that important anymore. We could apply this to almost everything: sports teams, people that like certain foods, people that drive certain cars etc.

Maybe I’m having a hard time understanding it because I don’t really think like that as much. I don’t think anyone is against me just because of a genetic predisposition or national predisposition. And I don’t think another human should get preferential treatment from me just because they happen to be American.

@Blackberry I guess in a way what I am talking about is an extreme form of ethnocentrism, and relating to race.

@JLeslie Yeah, I agree. I wonder how that happens.

@Blackberry If I had to guess, it is more likely to happen with people who have limited exposure to other races coupled with hearing negative stereotypes, and then add in a few instances where at least one or two of the stereotypes seem to be confirmed, then they can think all the steretypes are probably correct.

It seems being with people who all look like you coupled with positive messages of all people being equal, people are people, completely avoids racist thought. It’s like you have to have more than just one element to create the racism, it is not a simple formula in my opinion.

There are no simple answers to this question unfortunately. There are several different reasons why racism still survives into the 21st century. Conformism is probably the biggest reason though. The small towns simple minds mentality makes conforming to negative behaviors much easier since most people do not want to be targets, afterall people want to fit in and be accepted by their peers. This leads to a domino effect and the behavior patterns continue, in fact continue enough that people start to make decisions and behave in certain ways due to cognitive dissonance.

There are other reasons why racism continues to survive into today but I think conformism (like I’ve just mentioned above) is the biggest one here. I would know this since I live in a conservative rural area myself where many around me have a simple minded mentality.

So…
Racism: bad
Stereotyping an entire state because of repeated acts of racism : good?

In your defense, you did say it was “hard to stop stereotyping Kentucky”.
Well, at least you’re trying…

@zigmund No, stereotyping an entire state because of repeated acts of racism is not good…and I don’t need a defense, but thanks.

Oh good. We are in agreement, then.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir That is precisely the problem. We are a society of “categorizers”. We love to pigeon hole and categorize people and things, so we make terms to describe the different races. But visibly the races are different, so there will always be discrimination unfortunately. We love to pick on things that are different from us.