What does Christian Nation mean to you?

Here’s my answer from the other thread:

A Christian nation would be a nation, as Britain was, where there is an established church recognized and funded by the government. That religion was taught in the public schools and laws are partially based on the tenets of that religion. America is not a Christian nation; never has been and I hope never will. (Nor do I want it to be a Jewish, Muslim, Bahai’i or any other religious nation.)

I keep hitting the GA button, @janbb , but it only registers once. <pouts> I have heard the term “Christian Nation” only used by those wishing to promote an agenda. Some fundy Christians use it to promote a Christian agenda, and anti-Christians use it to promote an anti-Christian agenda. Gotta love the irony.

America is not a “Christian Nation.” Nor should it be. One of our strengths over the history of American has been the ability to absorb waves of immigrants with differing cultures, traditions and religions. Although this is currently being strained to the breaking point, it’s still there, IMHO.

What would a “Christian Nation” look like? I have a few ideas, but that’s all they are… ideas. There has never been a truly Christian Nation on the planet. Personally, I think that’s the way it should be. “Render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar’s.”

Is American a competitive nation? Not everyone is competitive, but I think most people would characterize us as competitive. Is America a proud nation? Not every American is proud of America, but I think most people would characterize us as proud. Is America a rich nation? Not everyone is rich, but I think most people would characterize us as rich.

Is America a Christian nation?

Pretty much.

And my point is nicely made. ^ ^ ^

Saudi Arabia is an “Islamic nation” because its constitution is the Quran.

For America to be a Christian nation, its laws would need to be based in some significant way on Christian religious doctrine. They are not.

I resent America being referred to as a Christian Nation. Don’t I count?

According to @janbb‘s explanation, Utah is a Mormon Nation, and it’s an ugly sight. You don’t want that for your country. That is, to be forced by law to observe religious doctrine that you don’t even believe in.

The United States has no declared religious affiliation, and that is as it should be. We may have more Christians than other religions or atheists represented by our numbers, but I don’t think that makes us a Christian nation.
Like @janbb and @Qingu said, there would have to be laws and other aspects of the constitution involved for The US to be a nation that was one religion or the other.

Quoting @Mariah from the other thread:“Christian nation” would be, imo, the situation many people were trying to escape by immigrating here so long ago. A nation with Christianity as the declared “national religion” as opposed to freedom of religion. Exactly the opposite of what our founders intended to create.

A misconception held by too many people in America.

Edit: Oops, it would an established religion.

I attach negative connotations to the term; not because of any anti-christian feeling but because I feel that it is trying to be exclusive, not inclusive. I feel the same way about “Muslim Nation”, “Hindi-Nation” etc, etc.

Sorry, I live in Texas and no, I do not refer to America OR Texas as a christian nation.

Perhaps we are talking about different things. America is certainly not officially a Christian nation. However, if one were to describe it, then due to the fact that the plurality, if not majority of citizens identify as Christian, one could describe it as Christian, as a generalization. Of course, we all know that generalizations leave out the variation in human behavior and yet, we all do it (generalize) anyway.

Or is that a baseless generalization?

We are a Christian nation with room for others… and with room for change. I say this as an Atheist—a stigmatized minority. It kills me when the politicians pander to Christians and prayer and whatnot. But I understand there would be no need for them to do that if it weren’t for the fact that we are, de facto, a Christian nation. Anyone who wants to say otherwise better show me some numbers.

I take it to mean that the majority of people in the country are Christians of one denomination or another and that the country has “Christian values” though that phrase can mean quite different things to different people.

I live in the UK where Queen Elizabeth II combines the roles of Monarch and Head of the Church of England. This almost relegates the church to a branch of government. This came about in 1534 when King Henry VIII declared himself head of the church in England when the church would not approve of his re marriage. Brendan Behan ridiculed the new church in the following immortal lines…

“Here’s a health to the Protestant Minister
And his church without meaning or faith
For the foundation stones of his temple are
The bollocks of Henry the Eighth.”

I’m with @janbb.

@wundayatta I see what you are getting at. Especially your first answer showed me how the term can be used without some sort of underlying intent that I would find offensive. I don’t know what is in the mind exactly of the fundamentalist Christians who use the term, which is one reason I posted the question. I especially want to understand what they mean by the phrase, my assumptions could be way off. For me Christian Nation implies Christian rules and laws. A nation where the majority of its citizens are Chrisian is different. Isn’t it?

@JLeslie It is different, and although he is right, it’s not a good excuse to act on it i.e. enact legislation.

@Blackberry What do you mean enact legislation?

@wundayatta One more thought, it seems to me the people who use the term Christian Nation tend to cite our founders were Christian, I rarely hear them mention the majority is Christian. So, I wonder if the majority was no longer Christian, if they would still call the US a Christian Nation?

Lebanon had a majority Christian population for a while back in the 1920’s or 30’s, not sure of the exact years, a big majority. I wonder if they would ever call that country a Christian nation?

The founders probably were mostly Christian, so of course some of their ideology came into play as they were setting things up, but that doesn’t make the US a Christian nation. Not in my mind anyway.
I think they were very careful to also pay attention to separation of church and state.

@JLeslie Correction: use their beliefs to defend violations of the constitution.

I don’t know the history very well, but when did we start feeling shame for the Salem Witch Trials? Do you think that could have influenced the founders decision to make it clear that the government was so separate from the state?

to late to edit, I meant separate from the church. sorry.

Something that the First Amendment clearly opposes. Most above took my other ansers.

I’ll tell you what it doesn’t mean – the U.S.

I wouldn’t call the US a Christian nation, since we have the freedom to practice (or not) whatever religion we want; however, the Supreme Court continues to protect the government’s use of “ceremonial deism”, claiming that it is non-religious and has lost meaning through ritual. So we continue following traditions established by the ideology of our Christian founding fathers – Presidents traditionally placing one hand on a Bible while being sworn in, the Pledge of Allegiance, our motto “In God We Trust” printed on our currency, the military enlistment oath including “so help me God”.

Personally, I find the idea of “American civil religion” presumptuous and infuriating, because it assumes that the majority of Americans believe in some kind of deity.

@fizzbanger It’s good that you brought that up, brought up Robert Bellah’s notion of civil religion in America. Whether or not you like it or whether or not you find it presumptuous or infuriating, the fact is, that it may very well be a part of the American character. One must call it what it is and only then can we fight it.

Bellah’s book, Habits of the Heart, would be of interest, I think, to anyone who is interested in how religion, and perceptions of it, is intertwined with the American identity; in how America sees itself and Americans think of themselves.

@lillycoyote I’m writing some on Bellah’s ideas in my final paper for classical sociological theory regarding the robustness of the secularization thesis and Max Weber’s contributions to notions of secularization and disenchantment.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir That doesn’t surprise me at all. I was actually thinking of you earlier, when all this chatter on fluther started, that chatter that got me thinking about Bellah. He has had some things to say about gender identity too. Bellah’s interests closely parallel yours, at least that is the impression I have, so I am not at all surprised that you are finding a place for him in your studies. :-)

I think of “Christian nation” in two different contexts.

The first would be a nation with Christianity as a stated official religion. I can’t think of any off the top of my head.

The second would be a nation where the vast majority of citizens identify as Christians. I do believe that the term is used more commonly in the context of the first paradigm though, at least interpretively.

I do not use the term “Christian nation” to describe America.

While I understand that some people probably use the term because most people in America are Christians, the term “Christian nation” to me refers to a theocracy, in which the government is tied to a certain religion and the religion is enforced through law, in the same way some nations use Sharia Law.

The way I hear people use “Christian nation” to describe America most often is the usage by the Christian Right in their idea that America was founded upon Christian principles and should be dedicated to upholding them. However, as America stresses freedom of religion, there is no theocracy and America is not a “Christian nation”.

We are not a Christian nation, in the sense that Christians don’t get to run the nation simply because they are Christians.

We are a Christian nation in that the majority of citizens are Christians.

I think it is the conflation of these two ideas that makes confusion reign. They are related, however. Some Christians believe that because the nation is majority Christian, Christians should run the country or Christian ideology should be the basis for the law of the land.

Personally, I reject this idea and am scared by it, but I understand it as a way of organizing political power and we have freedom to push for our own agendas. That’s a good thing. Of course that freedom means that people with ideas that are wrong from my point of view also get to freely push for their point of view and their policies.

Claiming us as a Christian nation by ideology is a tactic in the both the culture and the political wars. Will it work? It seems to be a good way of energizing conservatives. On the other hand, I think it also energizes those who oppose this so-called “Christian” agenda, including many other Christians.

As a Christian, I am glad that my country, Australia, is not a “christian nation”. Church and state should always be separate, as when they are not, certain points of view become dominant, and oppress others. I don’t see the USA as being Christian. Have a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdOpKv9D7rAer and you’ll see why I say that.

@Harold If you think that video is representative of all of America I invite you to come to where I live. It’s nothing like that and I’m in a rural area as well.
There are idiots everywhere, probably a few in Australia too.

@wilma – I am not suggesting that all the USA is like that, and I apologise if you thought that was the implication. What I am suggesting is that when Christianity, or any other religion, becomes a controlling influence, that kind of behaviour is, if not condoned, at least tolerated in some parts. Yes, we have our fair share of idiots here, but what is portrayed in that video would NEVER happen anywhere here. My understanding, and correct me if I’m wrong, is that the parts of the US where that WOULD happen are the ones that most strongly identify with Christianity.

Apology accepted @Harold. There apparently are places like that in the United States, but none that I have ever witnessed personally, and I have been to Alabama. Some of those folks might identify with Christianity, but as you said yourself , you are a Christian and you would not behave in that manner and no Christian that I know of would either. So that is not Christian behavior, that is redneck, bigoted, criminal behavior.

You and I are in agreement that Church and state should always be separate, as when they are not, certain points of view become dominant, and oppress others.
I don’t really see the United States as a Christian nation for the same reasons that you don’t see Australia as a Christian nation.

I realized that Christian Nation offends me because it seems to be used by the same people who would never vote for an atheist, who believe being a Christian means being honest. Not that I think all Christians automatically believe all Christians are good honest people, I am sure they recognize Christians are good and bad, like every group, but I hear the phrase, “I am a Christian,” thrown around, as if that is a statement of being a good person. I think many of the Christians who use these catch phrases, feel safer or something? Safer believing they live in a Christian Nation, or that being Christian ensures a certain type of lifestyle or country or something? Not sure. I guess what gets me is it seems to really matter to them, they want or need to be able to call America Christian nation. Maybe, in fairness, it is as much as I need to say it isn’t. Hard for me to articulate. No matter what it is just how it feels to me, it is not necessarily what is going on in their heads. Although, I willingly and happily say I am glad to live in a country with a majority of Christians. It seems to be a relatively safe place this time in history.

@JLeslie It may be your misconception as well as “theirs”. By Theirs I mean those people who think that by declaring that they are a Christian that they are somehow superior or a better person.
I know people like that, but I also know that there are vast numbers of people who follow the Christian religion who do not feel that they are somehow superior to those who do not.

What offends me, and I hear it over and over again here, is the generalization that all Christians are like that.
Why does it offend me? Am I a Christian? Am I a Jew or a Buddhist? I don’t believe that I have ever said what religion I am or if I am religious at all. It doesn’t really matter what I am, I don’t like prejudice.
Not that I haven’t ever been guilty of prejudice, I have as we all have.

And no @JLeslie I don’t mean to say that you are prejudiced.

@wilma I always try to say not all, only some, or some other way to show I don’t think it applies to all Christians. I don’t think any generalization ever applies, ever, to a whole group, it is only a generalization. I don’t think anyone is saying all Christians when they generalize about Christians. This is America well you and I live in America) we are surrounded by Christians, we know they come from various different subgroups/sects, we know Christians who are liberal and some who are conservative, we know Christians who attend church every week, and some who never go, we have best friends who are Christian and never once made us feel like being a different religion mattered, and other Christians who seem to always be wanting to talk about their views. My statement is only about the specific Christians who use the phrase, and even then I don’t know what is in the mind of each Christian who uses the phrase until they bother to let me know if I ask. Which so far, I don’t think anyone on this thread has explained, have they? The answers are not from Christians who use the phrase and exactly what they mean when they say it. Unless I missed it.

I never get the feeling you are being offensive or feel superior, or are showing any disrespect to anyone, of any religion or atheists. I had thought you were Catholic, but I guess it was an assumption I made, which of course could be wrong.

@JLeslie I know that you always try to not generalize, as do I, but like many places, that isn’t always the case here.
I am not Catholic, but I do have family and friends who are. :-)

I’ve not read the thread, so I’ll just answer the question. America does not have a Christian Gov’t, although the original founding documents were replete with references to the Christian God. The gov’t is not Christian, nor would I want it to be.

The nation, however, at this time is a Christian in the sense that a large percentage of citizens call themselves Christian and try to influence govt policy based on their Christian underpinnings.

There are, of course, plenty of fake Christians.

The most obvious senses in which the US is and is not a Christian nation have been discussed above. For a more in-depth treatment, I doubt I can do better than Alexis de Tocqueville did in Democracy in America, Vol. 1, Ch. 17. (Scroll down to the section headed with INFLUENCE OF CUSTOMS UPON THE MAINTENANCE OF A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC IN THE UNITED STATES. )

A nation of Christians, particularly one where the laws of the land reflect their faith.