What, if anything, do you think would be an appropriate punishment for a 2nd grade teacher who told the kids that there is no Santa, and that the gifts come from their parents?

Why do we, as a society, lie to kids about this Santa guy anyways?

Oh my! Telling kids the truth? Scandalous!

My daughter is in 2nd grade and she still believes. I’d be very upset with her teacher if this had happened. Not sure of what punishment, if any, should be involved so I’ll be following this Q.

@everephebe & @HungryGuy party poopers :P

I’d be curious of all the people who answer, please indicate whether or not you are a parent. Not that it’s a black and white issue, but I am curious if parents will tend to answer one way and others might tend to answer another.

I am a parent.

I should mention also if you google Rockalnd County teacher Santa it will come up. I am not tech savvy so cannot do a link.

That’s the lamest thing I’ve ever heard. Who gives a fudge whether they believe it or not? There are more important things in this world. Like people suffering cancer maybe?
Ha, punishing a teacher for saying the truth? Owch.

I’m not a parent and I would say give the teacher an award, lol. I think we lie and give so much false hope to kids, they aren’t really prepared for the real world and in many cases are just let down once they grow up.

Nope. Not a parent. I’d make a terrible parent. How would I explain the naked slave girl locked in a dog cage in my bedroom to a kid????

Do you know how many kids were told the truth from other kids at school? What do you do with them? I agree it’s not a part of the curriculum or her job to say, but it doesn’t seem like a big deal. I’m not a parent.

+ They were going to find out one way or another.

Jesus Christ. Please tell me what child has ever been harmed by believing in Santa or the tooth fairy.

Have you ever heard of imagination?

Regardless of her intentions, I don’t think that it was her place to tell them. Whether you agree with “lying” to children about Santa or not, it is up to the parents to decide whether they use the Santa tradition in their family Christmas or not. I am glad my parents let me believe in Santa whilst I was a kid. I’m not a parent myself.

It was not the teachers place to tell this to the children, truth or or not.

She should be required to wear a Santa suit. at school, on the last day of school, before the Christmas holidays.

I think that the punishment that she was given was the correct one. In talking with the parents, she would learn about parental prerogative and what her boundaries as a teacher should include.

It’s a little grinchy of her but doesn’t warrant any punishment.

Not a parent.

Nothing. Good for the teacher for telling the truth. I do wonder how the topic came up, though. If the teacher was asked a question directly, of course the teacher should tell the truth. If the teacher just blurted it out, out of nowhere, that’s just mean, but still the truth.

No way can I advocate directly lying to a kid. Kids will just follow your lead.

@tinyfaery Actually, despite my above answer, I kind of agree with you. If the teacher was asked out right by one of the kids if Santa existed I can’t blame her for telling the truth. I would have probably used the “based on a true story” line and hope the kids would accept that!

I think having her talk to the parents was an appropriate “punishment”. It wasn’t her place to tell the kids about it. I’m a parent of two girls, and I would have been angry if one of their teachers had done this. Confirming or denying a child’s beliefs is NEVER a teacher’s job.

Actually, my 10 year old and I JUST had the ever dreaded “Santa’s really just your parents” conversation this morning. I hated to do it right before Christmas, but all her friends were telling her Santa isn’t real, and I figured it was time to “come clean”.

Parent. I don’t know what would be an appropriate punishment, if any, but I think this falls into the range of way the hell out of line. Disagreeing with cultural traditions is not the place of the teacher. Does this person also tell that keeping Kosher is pointless because our food is safer these days? Does this person also point out to the little boys that if they’ve been circumcized they should take issue with their parents for what the teacher believes is unnecessary mutilation? How about the teacher makes sure that all the kids get bacon if they want cuz who doesn’t love bacon? Truth or no, messing in the area of individual cultural dynamics is not OK, unless it involves imminent harm to the children.

It’s a family tradition. If the teacher was asked by the students, the teacher should have told the students to talk to their parents. It’s not the teachers place to ruin a family tradition.

Santa isn’t real . Pretending he is, is just a cruel twisted joke.

I suppose I’d kind’a agree with @Leanne1986. If a kid asks, pull him aside and tell him the truth privately…if he asks, he’s at the point where he’s beginning to doubt anyway. I can’t abide lying to kids either. But don’t blurt it out to the whole class.

I will never understand why parents want to lie to their kids about this. One of my very early memories is telling my parents, completely seriously and straight-faced, that I know that Santa Clause must be real, because I know that they would never buy me all that stuff every year. Thinking back to it after I found out, I always wondered why they didn’t just come out and tell me right then and there. Wouldn’t you, as a parent, want your children to know all you do for them??

@MrItty : Parent or no?

No.

Well, might as well ask the question: Why does it matter if one is a parent or not?

Well, we just had the Fluther fight over whether or not “Merry Christmas” is offensive. It’s time for the Fluther fight over whether or not parents are evil douchebags for letting their children believe in Santa. Who’s got the popcorn?

I think it was mean spirited too. Why would a teacher do such a thing? I don’t know if I think she should do anything more than apologize to the parents who are upset. Not sure what I think. This is not about telling the truth, it is about interferring in a parents desire to share the magic of Santa, which is a commonly accepted practice, and does not cause any real harm to children as far as I can tell. This sort of thing should be directed back to the parent if a child asks. If a second grader asked me if there is a Santa, I would tell them to ask their parents, or ask them what they think themselves. I would not tell them my opinion. Same if they ask me about God, I would never even tell them what I think about God, I would direct them back to their parents. This is not about academics, which is what the teacher should be concerned with, it is about belief and in the case of Santa childhood fantasy.

@WillWorkForChocolate Not at all, it’s more the question if non parents are capable of giving sound advice on things involving kids I guess.

I don’t think the teacher needs to be punished. Santa’s not real. I can’t believe this is news.

@WillWorkForChocolate I know, right? I still can’t forgive my parents for lying to me over such a thing. What dicks!~

About the news headlines…so it is in the paper and on TV that santa isn’t real? Is that right? I haven’t seen the news today. Isn’t that a no no too? We don’t say out loud Santa isn’t real verbally or written in a place kids can easily come across it. Do we? I thought that was kind of a taboo.

@JLeslie Yep. And pretty much every other one says the same thing.

@Blackberry : The perspective is often different if you’re a parent. You learn early on what sorts of fiction are beneficial to the imagination, and just how intelligent children actually are, and that all this “Truth is all” stuff is mutable in a shades of gray world. By those standards, reading most stories to a child is lying, and I really don’t think my daughter was harmed by the idea of Santa or by reading One Fish,Two Fish to her..

I am not a parent by the way, since it seems we were supposed to say whether we are or not. I missed that somehow.

@Blackberry Aw man, that ain’t right.

@JilltheTooth I don’t think the two can be compared. Even as adults we read fictional books, but we don’t actually believe the books are true. I just don’t see why parents feel the need to lie to their kids and get angry when someone else tells them the truth.

@WillWorkForChocolate : Evil douchebag, here, as well!

@JilltheTooth I agree, for most things, but this seems debatable, although I understand the frustration.

Kids love santa, I can’t see the harm. The only negative impact I have seen from experiencing santa is adults feeling depressed Christmas isn’t as magical as it was when they were children. But, a lot of life is like that.

Disemboweling and then drawing and quartering?

@Facade Because it’s not the same as lying to your children about truly important things. Letting them hold an innocent belief in the magic of Santa is harmless. If kids want to believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa, the Easter Bunny, leprechauns or unicorns, there’s nothing wrong with it. They’ll grow out of it. Just like they give up their pacifiers, blankies, sucking their thumbs, AND the childish belief that their parents are perfect and know everything, they will also grow out of the belief in magical beings.

It’s not like millions of parents around the world are telling their children that the evil boogeyman under the bed really WILL pull them under the bed and eat their face off if they don’t behave. Santa is a fun, harmless tradition.

@Facade : You’re turning it into a black and white argument. Which it’s not. When I told my 3 year old that she could grow up to be anything, I was flat out lying. When I read books with talking puppies to her, that’s lying. When I tell her about Santa and we put out cookies and they get eaten and I tell her he ate them, that’s lying. I lied to her by doing all those things. She was smart enough to know that the magic is part of the wonder. I don’t object if people don’t tell their kids about Santa, or don’t let their daughters have Barbies, or don’t read Curious George to them. We all do things differently, but assuming that I’m damaging my child by what you call “lying” is just silly There is a trend that I’ve noticed. People who don’t spend a great deal of time with children very often underestimate their intelligence.

Oh, and BTW, after having “the talk” with my oldest daughter this morning, she’s fine. She’s not traumatized or angry or calling me a liar or crying at school. She’s perfectly okay, and having more of an, “Oh, well hmmm. Really? Okay then” attitude about it.

@Keep_on_running I’m not a parent and I would say give the teacher an award, lol. I think we lie and give so much false hope to kids, they aren’t really prepared for the real world and in many cases are just let down once they grow up.

A creative and imaginative mind has never produced anything of value. Music, art, the internet, the television, film, literature, the automobile, every product you’ve ever used… mankind produced these through nose-to-the-grindstone work, not creativity or imaginative thought.

So let’s break ‘em while they’re young. Why stop with Santa? Let’s tell first-graders that the vast majority of people in their lives will let them down; that they will most likely never find a fulfilling career that allows them to make a comfortable living. C’mon, six-year-old girls won’t be prepared for the real world unless they’re immediately told that one in three of them will be violently raped at some point in their life.

@WillWorkForChocolate @JilltheTooth But why tell your kids something you’ll have to backtrack about later? Why not tell them the truth– gifts come from friends and family. The whole Santa things seems to put the focus of the holidays on gifts rather than quality time with loved ones anyway, but I’m not surprised about that…

@JilltheTooth Yeah, it’s not a big deal. I was just wondering if childless answers were seen in a different way.

@GladysMensch Telling them they could be raped will keep them on their toes. There are pedobears out there.

My son’s kindergarten teacher did that to him back in 1996.

For me, an important perspective here is from kid who experienced this. He still resents her for ruining something fun for him. He doesn’t resent us for our ‘make believe magic’ but hates that he lost it in such a cold, callous way. The teacher had become bitter, was ready to retire and told us that she was fed up with this “bullshit,” meaning “Santa.”

It didn’t make National News… and the teacher didn’t have to apologize or anything. The only consequence she got was, she lived in a town of less than 700 people and everyone knew what she did.

If you aren’t allowed, as a teacher, to tell kids this truth, then which truths are you allowed to tell? Could the school board please provide a list?

I really don’t get this insistence on the fiction about Santa Claus. Why do parents need to believe that kids don’t know “the truth?” Why do we think we have to pretend something is true in order for kids to believe it? We teach them about God? No one can see God. No one sees Santa, either. People believe or they don’t. Most kids will believe in God if we tell them to. For a while, anyway.

But guess what! Kids believe in lots of fantasy even when we tell them it’s fantasy. They believe in Cinderella which is a “fairy” tale. They believe in Bambi and Mickey Mouse and all kinds of imaginary characters. For pity’s sake, so do adults. Only ours are a bit more sophisticated. Still, they come from novels and movies and we believe in them even if we say we know they are fiction.

The truth of fictional characters is much more powerful that the truth of so-called “real” characters. Anything this teacher says will not make a dent in that truth. Fiction contains more truth than reality ever will. But adults don’t get it for whatever reason. People don’t seem to understand that the story is everything. Labeling things as truth or fantasy don’t matter. The truth to any story is in the story itself whether we call it real or not.

The truth to Santa Claus…. well why should I tell you. I could ask a question. See what people think.

@GladysMensch I think you’re forgetting the difference between realism and just plain scaring the shit out of your children though…

@Facade: I never had to backtrack. In my house growing up, and when KatawaGrey was little, there was just a basic growing out of it. And it wasn’t about the gifts, per se, it was more about the spirit of lovely things out there that we can’t see, about how fun it is to wear a fuzzy red and white hat, to pretend. With little kids, pretending is a good thing. Actually, for all of us, pretending is a good thing. That’s why we have novels and movies and theater and stuff.
In my experience, most of the adults who were traumatized by the awareness that Santa was a pretend thing are the ones who had much more serious crap in their lives from their parents than the Santa myth.

Maybe it’s one of those things you either start and finish, or don’t start at all. Cutting your kid off too early from santa might hurt their feelings, but if one decides to go another route and tell them what christmas is from the start, there’s nothing to worry about?

By the way I didn’t have santa when I was a kid, but for a short time when I was little I believed he was real, he just didn’t come to my house.

Not a parent, but the teacher was wrong. Let the kids believe in a few things that are nice and pleasant. They’re kids for God’s sake. They’ll grow up too fast and see the world is not always a nice place way too soon anyways.

@GladysMensch You’re absolutely right. I think I need to tell my daughters that their brains will never get them far in life, and they’d better prepare to use their pretty faces and tits to get what they want. Perhaps I should also stomp on my 10 year old’s dream to be an artist, and my 5 year old’s dream to be an Olympic gymnast. I mean, I shouldn’t give them false hope, right?

@Facade Why not? Every parent tells their child something they have to backtrack on at some point. Allowing them to believe in the innocence of magic is no different than thousands of other things that parents either exaggerate, lie about or simply don’t deny.

@JLeslie

“By the way I didn’t have santa when I was a kid, but for a short time when I was little I believed he was real, he just didn’t come to my house.”

Did you ever ask somebody who was wearing a Santa costume, or anyone else, why he didn’t come to your house?

@Brian1946 No. My parents told me we don’t have santa because we don’t celebrate Christmas. One time, on xmas day, my girlfriend’s mom called and said to have my sister and I come over (we lived in an apartment building) because santa left gifts for us under their tree since we didn’t have one. I was so excited!

Teachers are not obliged to lie to kids. Quite the opposite. If the teacher was asked, then it would have been wiser for her to just say, “Ask your parents,” and if she volunteered the information without being asked, then she should have anticipated the trouble she would cause for herself. Regardless, far from being punished, the school should have backed her up. This is just another instance of the lack of respect for educators in the US.

I remember seeing an editorial cartoon many years ago in which a rich kid with a little wagon full of toys tells a poor kid with nothing, “The reason I got lots of presents and you got nothing is because I was a good boy and you were bad.” That’s when I resolved not to tell my kids the Santa stuff, if I ever had any kids. (Not a parent, but I have taught at various levels.)

Also, I would hope to pass my religion on to my kids. As some of the above comments show, telling kids nonsense about Santa and the Easter Bunny undermines their understanding of matters of faith.

@submariner A lack of respect for educators? I don’t see that in this instance. She is going against a societal norm. I would be annoyed with any adult who destroyed Santa for a young child. Any adult, it has nothing to do with her being a teacher really as I think about it more.

What @Adirondackwannabe said. And let me add, yes it wasn’t the teacher’s place to tell them he’s not real, thing is that they’re kids. Let them have an imagination, that’s what their innocence is all about. If you tell them the truth, then you take that away from them. You learn step by step. As you grow older the tendency to accept certain things grows with you. Sure tell them Santa isn’t real, throw in what rape is too, what drugs are and all other crap. Just as you don’t do that, because of their age, Santa can be real. Okay?
My parents told me he was real, I still look back and remember the feeling of getting presents, writing the list. That feeling is priceless.

I’m a parent of a son & daughter who grew out of the “santa’s real” phase a few years ago.
We never told them santa delivered their presents, we just didn’t tell them he didn’t either.
Whenever the subject did come up they were told that whatever they want to believe in is up to them & if they were happy with that, then fair enough, go for it.
If some teacher felt the need to say this to my kids back then it wouldn’t have phased them one little bit. They’d have probably just called her “grumpy knickers” & carried on regardless.
Me, i’d have just laughed the whole thing off as inconsequential & moved on.

First the teacher. If she wasn’t aware that she would upset people, then she is culturally insensitive. It is appropriate that she should have it explained and that she should be willing to apologize. Normal people who ignorantly upset other people apologize for it. If she did it in spite knowing that people would be upset, then she is a bad employee. Schools have enough crap to deal with without teachers intentionally stirring up the parents.

Now for the outcry. It’s not such a big deal. The idea that children should have or do have a prescribed path of childhood beliefs and experiences is inane. It’s like, well, believing in Santa Claus. Whenever they find out about Santa, however they find out, some of them will be upset, and some will accept the news gladly and will jubilantly impose the fiction on their younger siblings. To have this one belief overturned (if the teacher actually has that power) is trivial compared to experiencing first pet death, the first time daddy calls mommy a lying whore, and the first time they go get Mr. Peely the janitor to clean up Jennifer’s vomit and find the Principal in the janitor’s closet with Mr. Peely’s broom stick where the standardized tests don’t shine. Trust me on this.

@JLeslie A teacher is supposed to be a professional (in the best sense of the word, not the classist sense of “not a blue collar worker”). There are times when his/her professional ethics will conflict with local customs and social norms, and he/she will have to make a judgment call. And I personally am not a relativist; I do not regard all customs as equally deserving of respect just because they are customs. A teacher who told a girl in 1950 that she might be a physician some day might be violating the social norms of that time and place—would that teacher deserve to be punished? The teacher’s first responsibility is to help the child identify and develop her abilities, not buttress an established social order.

If we regard the existence of Santa as simply a question of fact, then obviously kids should be told the truth. If we tie this question to issues of value, then teachers are entitled to follow their own consciences. (And this is not at all like making Jewish or Moslem kids eat bacon as someone suggested—the ritual uncleanness of certain foods is not based on lies about pork or shellfish or whatever.)

A sense of wonder does not have to be based on lies. Kids can be encouraged to pretend, be creative, and use their imagination without confusing them about what is real and what isn’t, and a walk through the woods will show them plenty to marvel at if we teach them how to observe.

I’m a teacher… and if a kid asks me about God, I tell them to ask their parents. If they ask me if the story of Judas Maccabees is true, I tell them I am not the right person to answer that—their parents are the best people to answer that. If they ask me if Obama is a good president, I tell them to talk to their family because I’m not the right person to say anything. I have had to find alternate work for a student whose parents were against me teaching them about Greek Mythology beacuse it counteracted their religious beliefs and I did so with a smile because…
It’s an integral part of being a teacher—some things are NOT my business.

Same goes for Santa, the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. It’s not my place to decide what a family wants to do with their child’s belief system or culture norms.

Other peoples’ ” Belief-Truths” are not my truths and I am not in a position to decide which “Belief-Truths” are the right ones to share.

However, if a student asks me, “What was the role of the Catholic Church during the Crusades?” I give them generally accepted academic answers.

But everyone knows that The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the one true god!!!!

I disagree with @Luiveton. They’re what, 7–9 years old. They haven’t even heard of cancer. Why should anyone sacrifice their childhood? Cancer is not their concern right now. They’re probably learning on how to spell that one right now, may be not. This world has bigger, global issues, yes but taking care of the little things like your kid’s innocence, is important. They’ll get to know one way or the other? That’s poor justification for snatching away a kid’s imagination.

Oh man, this isn’t a joke. Parents can be mad and all that but no official punishment, in my opinion. Besides, if my kids were in that person’s class, they wouldn’t care ‘cause they already know there is no Santa. Again, people assume that all kinds believe and worship Santa or something – all kids don’t, some kids do.

@submariner There are times when his/her professional ethics will conflict with local customs and social norms, and he/she will have to make a judgment call. And I personally am not a relativist; I do not regard all customs as equally deserving of respect just because they are customs.

Me too. We are good there, we agree. But, then it seems to me you go on to say Santa compares to being kosher or encouring a young girl to think outside of gender norms. I don’t see how Santa rises to that level. We do need to use our judgment on what norms actually hold people back, what norms are acceptible within the wide breadth of religious and cultural beliefs and practices, and what norms are just fun.

In the second grade, I tend to lean towards not interferring with parents, unless I see direct psychological and physical harm immediate or long term. Barring that adults, including teachers, should back off. If it is a classroom issue, like lets say girls are allowed to play a game that is typically male oriented, or text books talk about girls being nurses and boys being doctors, that is part of school curriculum and can be fought between the administration and parents, and I would see nothing wrong with a teacher pointing out girls can be doctors too, but santa has absolutely nothing to do with school, education, or honesty in my opinion. Again, I am talking about second grade.

Now, if you are talking about high school and college, teachers should be free to discuss their ideas in my opinion. High school there should be a balance of ideas, telling both sides to an issue. I have seen teachers at the high school level get in trouble for discussing politics, religion, even if the holocaust was real or not, and as long as they are discussing both opinions I completely support the teachers on those issues, even if it is not part of their specific classwork, but a conversation might have gone down a tangent. My MIL always says that it is good for children to hear the opinions of other adults. In college I am fine with a professor not caring at all about telling both sides in their response.

I’ve had a second thought. I don’t know the circumstances of the disclosure. So I am withholding any judgement against the teacher until I know what it was. Possibly, there was hostility around the point in the classroom and she “gave the answer” to end it. Yes, yes, perhaps she could have sidestepped the issue altogether, but in the heat of the moment, I’ll forgive her for just being honest. Everyone else’s job looks easy.

I just googled it – her name is Leatrice Eng. The article that I read (in our local paper www.lohud.com) said that it was a geography class and they were talking about the North Pole. The 7 year olds in the class said they knew about the North Pole because of Santa. She then told them there is no Santa and that their parents buy them the gifts.

The reason I asked people to state whether or not they’re a parent was, as I said earlier, I was just curious as to whether the answers from parents might be more one way and the answers from non-parents might be more another way (like a statistic).

I can’t believe some of you people. You can tell that you’re not parents.

She shouldn’t have said anything to the kids.

For those who believe that she should not lie, it seems she was not asked for the information directly, she offered it. She could have said “ok, and what else is at the North Pole?” and moved the conversation on. Or another option is she could have said “yes, it is known as the home of Santa Claus. What else is it known for?”

To all of you who think that it’s cool that the teacher spilled – fuck that.

@Jude But, you and I aren’t parents and we both think it is fucked up.

So one second grader says to another that there is no Santa Claus. They ask the teacher, and the teacher tells them to ask their parents. What is the message there? Teachers don’t know anything really important? If so, then why are we in school?

It was kind of funny in my house. I don’t believe in pretending there is a physical reality to Santa Claus. My wife doesn’t believe in lying to the kids. So when our son, who is the younger of the two asked, my daughter pipes up to assure him that Santa is real. But when my wife is asked directly, she can’t lie, so she tells him Santa isn’t real, but the spirit is real. Of course, that was always my line—the spirit is a real thing.

I don’t know if this is a religious thing or what. What do teachers say about Voodoo? Do they say it isn’t real? What do they say about speaking in tongues? Whirling Dervishes? And on and on. Do they tell the kids to ask their parents about everything? I don’t believe it.

It really doesn’t make a difference what teachers or anyone else says. My kids still believe in Santa even thought they are 15 and 11. They know Santa isn’t real, but they still believe in him. That’s the important thing. People who get all hung up in “spilling the beans” have no clue what it’s really like to be a kid. Kids are very maleable. They can hold many a contradictory idea in their heads. Sometimes I think we should be telling adults to ask they kids the truth instead of the other way around.

My opinion of Santa (if anyone cares). I don’t know anyone who is mad at their parents for letting them believe in Santa. Myself included. I know some people who are mad (disappointed) that their parents told them that there is no Santa, and they feel that they missed out on a commonly held childhood belief.

I see no harm in allowing children to believe in Santa. In many ways discovering the truth about Santa serves as a right of passage in our society. Some adults remember the exact moment when they learned. The Santa myth teaches children the joy of innocence; the discovery that not all people and beliefs are as they appear, or are as presented; the idea of myth; and that sometimes we do things simply for the joy it brings others.

So the belief in Santa is also a geography lesson for young children? The nerve!~

I have fond memories of my belief in Santa. I remember being so excited the night before Christmas, too excited to go to bed, excited at the thought of Santa coming and the presents that would be waiting for me under the tree in the morning. It was very magical and I am glad my daughter shares that belief now (she is 4 so she has a few years to go before she learns there is no Santa).

@jca My parents still have the bells my father used outside my window one night when he was pretending to be Santa’s sleigh. They attach the bells to their front door and we always get a giggle and fond memories when we visit and hear those bells. =)

@wundayatta So one second grader says to another that there is no Santa Claus. They ask the teacher, and the teacher tells them to ask their parents. What is the message there? Teachers don’t know anything really important? If so, then why are we in school?

Because teachers are not in the position to make value judgments about family customs and beliefs, period.

They get their critical reasoning and questioning skills from other topics of discussion. I had a wonderful discussion with my students today about why people get off on causing trouble for others and, even in that, I didn’t make any value judgments. I recognized the students’ contributions as valid and would say, “Maybe so,” or “That’s one perspective,” then offered them several other perspectives. It’s actually very delicate and a skill to be able to lead a discussion where everyone feels valid, different perspectives are offered nonjudgmentally and no personal beliefs are interjected.

And on a second grade level, the best thing to do would have been to say what @jca said—“Yes, it is known as the home of Santa Claus. What else is it known for?”

Now back to my lunch.

I also have really fond “Santa” memories. I remember climbing up on the kitchen counter top to prepare a plate of cookies, which had to be arranged just so, and to pour a small glass of milk. It was so much fun, I miss that innocence. And I wasn’t mad at my parents for not telling me, nor did I call them liars. It was more of an, “Oh! Santa is my parents!” kinda thing when I caught them sneaking the presents under the tree.

And a few times as a teenager, I snuck out of my room in the middle of the night to fix up milk and cookies, because my parents would still put out “special” unwrapped presents very early in the morning, so I thought it was fun to leave milk and cookies for them.

@WillWorkForChocolate We did the cookies, but my father always said Santa prefers beer.

Here’s something for all

It’s a song, but definitely pertinent to this discussion.

‘Cause you know what happens, kids who believe in Santa are going to grown up to be crazy narrow minded Christians, right? ~

We still put cookies out for Santa. Then we don our fuzzy red and white hats and eat them. Win, win.

@JilltheTooth – Milk, too?

We do the milk and cookies, or sometimes cider and cookies—my children are careful to ask me what Santa would prefer that evening. We also have a tradition where the kids ask Santa a set of questions (which seems to get longer every year) and Santa answers them all. Over the last few years, I told them that Santa would like the questions in the form of an email which I will pass on to him, so that he can answer it more easily.

None of this requires any belief. Learning the “truth” about Santa takes away none of the fun. Knowing there is no Santa takes away nothing. That is clear from the comments all the adults are making here.

People will believe what they want to believe regardless of any facts. In most cases, there is no problem with this. It just helps us get through life.

@linguaphile You make a good point. I guess teachers can remain agnostic about the “truth” of anything—or everything. Just present evidence and allow kids to discuss. I think that would be great if all teachers could do that, but as far as I can tell, many teachers do believe in right and wrong, and they try to influence their kids in a specific way of seeing things all the time. Are these teachers not following the rules or are the rules applied in a haphazard way?

Every concept is arguable and can be seen in more than one way. Is the earth flat? What do you do when kids say it is? Do you put the evidence in front of them and ask them to decide, or do you tell them it is round? What about patriotism? Do you make them recite the Pledge or do you let them choose for themselves?

I just don’t believe that most teachers teach the way you do. I think teachers make their opinions known all the time and teach it as the truth. I think that that’s what most parents want (unfortunately).

(@JilltheTooth: Eat the hats? Hullo, misplaced modifier.

@gailcalled Why not? She wears pants on her teeth…

@gailcalled Good call! That’s what I thought she meant, too, and I was imagining the peppermint flavored candy hats getting all sticky in my hair.

It is most definitely a teachers job to teach kids that what they believe might be wrong. Things like the earth is only 3000 years old or that black people can’t read come to mind.

Again, all this fuss over a fairytale. My neice and nephew never believed in Santa, or any such nonsense. It did no harm.
So why lie? I don’t get it. Oh, it’s probably because I don’t possess the secret spot in the brain only parents can access.~

Santa’s own punishment for her will be sufficient.
No presents being left for her this year.

Naughty teacher.

I have to wear pants on my teeth, it protects my dentition from the fuzzy hat stuff

@HungryGuy : Eggnog laced with demon rum. Lucky Santa.

I’ll bow out. We don’t have to agree on everything, @tinyfaery, I guess.

I’m not a parent. I think the teacher having to talk to the parents was probably punishment enough. I don’t see anything wrong with believing in Santa and the tooth fairy. I think it is just a healthy imagination.

First of all, this shouldn’t be news. The teacher, who may be an insensitive and tactless asshole, shouldn’t be “punished” but certainly should talk to the parents. Perhaps there are circumstances that turn this from “mean” to “epic blunder,” and if that’s the case I’d take back what I said about the teacher being an asshole.

As for whether or not parents should pretend Santa is real…what’s the big deal? If you don’t pretend with your kids…what’s the big deal? Why does every single parenting issue have to be debated as if one small misstep on the part of the parents will lead to the total destruction of the child’s future in one fell swoop?

Why is it so hard for people to comprehend that ANY aspect of parenting isn’t a right/wrong black/white good/bad issue? Santa included!

My parents pretended Santa was real, and you know what, by the time I was an adult I was still pretty much aware that the world was really kind of a crappy place in a lot of ways and that people can be appalling. I also believed unicorns were real at one point and that a murderer hid under my bed at night with a big knife to cut off any of my body parts that might dangle over the side of the bed. I had an imaginary friend, talked to my pets, and pretended my toys were real. I thought I had two tubes leading to my stomach, one for solids and one for liquids. I thought the way babies were made was disgusting and used to narrate my life in the third person inside my head like I was living in a Laura Ingalls Wilder book.

And yet, I grew up. With all the creative wonder of childhood, why is Santa the one thing people focus on? Holy crap, mountain out of a molehill.

When my son was six, he told my four-year-old daughter to go along with the Santa thing lest the adults lose interest and stop with the bootle. Paraphrasing, of course.

Listen mama I want you to tell Santa Claus

Gee some grade 2 children don’t believe! I believed in Santa until my cousin told me he didn’t exist. Then I asked my parents and they said Santa always exists until I stop believing. I think that’s horrible. I say she should not teach small children. I believed in Santa until i was 12 and then I decided to start believing again about 10 yrs ago :)

Other things that exist so long as you believe:

UFOs
Trickle down economics
Praying for help before a sporting event improves your odds
The best pizza in the world
Canadian humor
Spells that make people sick
A binding promise
Romantic love
A fast food you just gotta have
The devil
Donald Trump’s ability to lead

I would be much more interested to learn how many “anti-santa-lie” folks had shitty childhoods as opposed to whether or not you have chidren.

@Blondesjon I believed in Santa and so did my three brothers. Well, up until my middle brother spoiled it for me when I was six and told me there was no Santa. We had a great chldhood.

@6rant6 When my daughter was 8½, just before Christmas, she seemed skeptical of Santa but never came out and said anything. My husband and I decided that if she asked us directly and sincerely if Santa was real, we’d be honest.

Smart girl, she waited until right after Christmas to pop the question. But since she has two little brothers, she still gets to play along. She was not upset to learn the truth at all.

@Blondesjon I think you’re on to something there.

@Meego That’s kind of a sad way for your parents to end the Santa years. My mom told me Santa Claus represents the good feeling you have when you give a gift and don’t expect anything in return. That feeling is real, and doing that for your kids can be a really fun tradition. When my daughter realized we were actually Santa, I told her the same thing. Her whole face lit up and she said, “So all those great things really came from you and Dad?” It probably helped that “Santa” had given her a pet rabbit that year. :)

Santa is a fun idea. If parents don’t want to tell their kids there’s a Santa, they don’t have to. But I always enjoyed the idea. He’s jolly, he’s got cute reindeer and he gives you stuff! Who cares if its a lie. It is the parents choice to decide if and when to tell their kids, NOT the teachers. I don’t know what should happen. It isn’t a big deal, but it’s just not her place to make that decision.

What do you mean there’s no Santa?

I had a strong minded child who, when I said Santa was the spirit of Christmas refused to believe me. She knew he was real. I’ll have to ask when she finally knew the truth.

My 11 year old daughter came up to me the other day. She said, “Dad, I know there is no Santa.”

Then she said, “Don’t worry, I would never tell my little brothers, don’t worry. Only someone mean would do that.”

@Imadethisupwithnoforethought The wisdom of children…

I don’t think she should have said anything about Santa when asked. She probably should have thought the lesson plan through a bit better – it’s the holiday season, we are going to talk about the North Pole, what could possibly come up for which I should have a good answer prepared? It’s up to parents to reveal or for kids to find out from other kids.

Though I do disagree with the whole Santa thing fundamentally, as I think that it is wrong to lie so outrightly to your kids. There is a big difference between reading stories about talking animals and watching movies, or going to the theatre. You might lose yourself in the moment but as soon as it ends, you are back in the real world. Not so with Santa – you leave out a glass of milk, mince pie, carrot, reindeer food and it’s gone by morning. Presents appear by your bed, brought by an old man in the middle of the night. (WTF are we teaching the kids there??). But I did love that feeling of excitement when I was a kid and want my kids to experience that magic. So I tell my kids when they ask that it’s magic. How does Santa know what to get me? It’s magic. How does Santa get into the house? It’s magic. So when they stop believing in magic, they’ll understand that Santa is just a story. Just like they have been told that some people believe that Jesus and God is real but I think that it is just a story.

@Blondesjon Yes, mine was horrible, and that’s why I’m also an atheist and don’t want to commit to a long term relationship as well. Those darn mommy issues.

I had a really nice childhood.

@Blackberry . . . so was mine but i’d still dress up like santa and fuck my mom

@Blondesjon o.O

I can’t remember the exact moment that I worked out Santa probably wasn’t real but even when I stopped believing I still liked the idea of Santa (still do). I loved believing in Santa but I certainly didn’t feel any resentment towards my parents when I realised that he was just a story. I remember once, my mum dressed as Santa. Now, my mum is a very petite woman and only just 5 foot tall so, of course, I knew it was her under all that costume but I never told her that. I have also never heard of anyone who resents their parents for the Santa tale and, I would imagine, those that do have more bones to pick with their parents than just Santa!

Who ya gonna call?

Ghost busters!!!!

Not sure why I said that. It’s what came to mind.

As I recall, I never officially said that Santa wasn’t real. I’m not saying it now, either.

I knew that at a certain age—perhaps age 10 or 11, I had suspicions, but there was no way I was going to ask anyone about it. What if I was wrong? What if I asked my parents and put them in the embarrassing position of having to lie to me so they could maintain the fiction for my younger siblings? And of course, I’d never ask a classmate. They’d make me a laughing stock.

So to this day, I have never asked. Of course, others have asked me and to them I say that Santa exists—he is the spirit of Christmas, and it doesn’t matter whether you think he is real or not. He still exists. Can you say “Santa Claus?” There you go. You just proved it. You couldn’t say it if he didn’t exist.

It kills me that people get hung up on literalism. And for Santa? The Easter Bunny? Give me a fucking break! And all this and yet people don’t worry about the existence of God?!? Can anyone say “double standard?” We are in the area of lit crit here. Memes and notions. Myths and truths and the relationship any of these things has to “reality,” if any.

It really doesn’t matter whether someone says Santa exists or not. Same as whether someone says God does or doesn’t exist. People will believe what they believe, kids too. Kids know a lot more than most adults give them credit for and frankly, it is usually the kids who don’t want to blow it for their parents more than it is the other way around.

You know. I don’t want to let on that I know because my parents will be devastated. They really believe in this shit. And the truth is that it takes a pretty sophisticated understanding to believe in Santa. Kids have it. Some adults have it. But it gets shamed out of a lot of people for a very long time. Sometimes forever.

That poor teacher. My poor wife. The idea of not lying ruins their lives in some ways. And yet, poor parents who get all upset about what the teacher said. None of it matters. Really. Kids are so much smarter than we give them credit for. They know the story far better than we do. We think kids are innocent because they can believe.

We’re the ones who are innocent because we don’t know how to suspend disbelief. Because we place so much importance in being in touch with so-called “reality.” If you think that way, you’ll never see much of what reality has to offer.

I believed in Santa and the Easter Bunny without fail. I remember seeing a note that my younger sister wrote to Santa, asking if he was her parents and as a test, could he write a sentence and she would see if it was her parents’ handwriting. It was pretty funny and I made a copy of it and kept it.

@MissAusten Really? I dont see how that is sad. My parents basically gave me free will to believe what I wanted that does not mean the santa tradition stopped. And actually that year I got my first pc (they just were coming out) and when I woke up to it the screen was black there was a blinking cursor and the only thing on the screen were the words To:“meego”(my real name was used instead) LOVE SANTA. I dont think it was sad at all. I understood the magic of christmas because of it. And its the same thing I did for my daughter she is 16. And santa sent her an email…i urge you all to do it for your special loved ones friends and family, would be good for the 2 grade kids who got their dreams shattered. Santa is here

@Meego Sorry, I misunderstood when you said this: “Then I asked my parents and they said Santa always exists until I stop believing. I think that’s horrible.” I took that to mean you, as a kid, thought your parents were telling you that if you stopped believing in Santa he would cease to exist in an “oh my God I killed Santa” kind of way. Although it seems obvious now what you meant, the “I think that’s horrible” right after the previous sentence threw me off.

Your expanded story about Christmas is actually very sweet and, you’re right, not sad at all.

Looking back I find it strange that I believed in Santa but not the tooth fairy or the Easter bunny!

Looking back I find it strange I have a bunch of toddler teeth hidden in my sock drawer. But it made a little girl happy. Oh well. =)

What @jonsblond isn’t telling you is that those are the teeth of many different toddlers that she grinds up to make a potion she has been secretly feeding our “7” year old daughter for the last 23 years.

Does that mean if I turn my stash of baby teeth into a potion and take it myself, I’ll look like I did when I was 23???? YES!!!

No, @MissAusten , you’ll look like you did when you were 7. Sorry.

@MissAusten I understand. When I read your post I was thinking…i did not say it was horrible…lol it does look like that…sorry. My words and my brain do not always go together. Im sorry you misunderstood me. :) I am used to it :)