Nearly all job applicants aren't following instructions, is it fair to judge them?

Not everybody has the means to create .pdf files. It’s a proprietary format. I think Open Office can do it (though with limited features), otherwise you need to spring for Adobe Framemaker at $1000.

You’d pretty much have to guarantee me a job if you charge me $1000 just to apply!

If the job demands a great deal of attention to detail, toss out those who didn’t follow instructions. If some of those look like great candidates otherwise, ask them why they didn’t follow instructions. The responses may surprise you.

I’m with @HungryGuy.
They may not have the means or skill yet wish to apply. You cannot make assumptions on lack of following “orders” without directly ASKING the applicant WHY they did not comply with the pdf request.

If I wanted the job I’d apply in the manner I was able, but, I’d also volunteer why I was not able to meet the request generated.

I find medical professionals generally suck on the computer. Many of them probably have no idea what the difference is.

Since it’s a technical position, and being able to follow this particular instruction is important (such as most clerical and office work is these days), then yes, I would judge pretty severely on both a) refusal to read instructions and/or b) inability or unwillingness to attempt to conform.

On the other hand, if this had been for, say, a warehouse worker or someone who wouldn’t be doing this kind of work, then I’d be far more lenient.

@HungryGuy it’s easy to make .pdf files. CutePDF is a free download and simple to work with. I use it multiple times nearly every work day.

@CWOTUS – Thanks! I’ll get that in case I ever need to create PDFs…

PDF’s are a common file type but there are few common programs to create them. For example Word has been able to create PDF’s since Office2007 but it required a seperate, unadvertised, download in order to do so. Adobe acrobat, the standard for producing PDF’s, is neither cheap or readily available (if you want it you probably have to buy it direct from adobe, at least here in the UK). Now, i admit, there are plenty of shareware and freeware programs that can creat PDF’s like CutePDF but they all work as printer subsystems which for those that aren’t tech literate can be a tad confusing (you “print” the file but it actually saves a copy as a PDF to a default location).

So should you use this to rule people out? Well if you have a couple of hundred applications, definately. It’s a pain in the arse shortlisting so if only 10 out of 100 followed the instructions properly then this is an easy and fair way to short list. If, on the other hand, you only had a few applications then I would let it slide. Those people who submitted digitial resumes followed the spirit if not the letter of the instruction and demonstrated the abilty to think round an instruction and produce a sensible response in the event they could not produce the actual desired respone.

Just wondering… why didi you intentionally exclude .doc files? A .doc file will show all their dirty laundry and show you how competent they are with Word. Do they automatically center or are they spacing everything by hand? Do they know how to set tabs?. Did they find this template or create it themselves?
The doc file will tell much more than a pdf would. I’d recommend it.

@Lightlyseared – I suppose that makes sense if the job is directly related to creating PDFs and your objective is to identify people who are subject matter experts on creating and working with PDFs and knowing what software is “out there” to do so…

@LuckyGuy .pdf’s will display as the applicant intended on any computer. We use .pdf’s in the office quite a bit, and I was curious to see who was willing to take the initiative to make the conversion. So far, nobody that failed to submit as .pdf’s have explained that they were unable to for x reason. I certainly wouldn’t hold it against a candidate if they said that they didn’t have access to the means for producing a .pdf, but sending something that is different from what was asked without mentioning why seems a bit questionable.

Thanks for the responses so far, I’ve found them enlightening.

@HungryGuy i’m not overly sure you read that the way I meant it.

@Lightlyseared – Sorry :-p

Have you double-checked the job posting to ensure that you specified pdf, and that the way that people submit their resumes accepts pdfs (without any complicated work-arounds)?

If so, then I would put the .docs and .rtfs at the bottom of the pile. (But maybe I am uptight. I pdf almost any document I send out, and definitely anything with particular formatting or special symbols. And often enough I will send both a pdf and doc just in case the reader has a preference.)

@nikipedia they are responding via e-mail, so there shouldn’t be any issues with sending pdfs.

In my experience turning anything into a PDF is quite easy. I just hit print and choose the “Print to PDF” option. It works from at least Word, OpenOffice, any web browser, and TextEdit. If turning documents into PDFs is part of the job, but the candidate looks great besides that factor, I’d ask about it in an interview. If there are lots of candidates (as it seems) and there some good options from those who followed the instructions correctly, I would take those people first. I know if I don’t follow the exact instructions on a scholarship, internship, or job application, my application will be tossed right into the trash.

Chrome prints to pdf

If the technical knowledge is not a core component of the job, I would overlook it, If it is, I would use this as a method of weeding applicants out.

Gadzooks, if I were in your position, I might not even look at any that was not in the format requested. The devil is in the details. If you asked that it be typed in a certain family of fonts, in a certain format, that is the way you want it. Maybe, because it is easier to read, and get through, or to scan, whatever. It is like having an applicant submit his/hers application by hand when company policy is to submit it by email. There are quite a few utilities for converting .pdf files. Cnet is a good place to fine freeware and shareware, but that is not the only place; you don’t have to spend any money, much less a fortune, to create pdfs.

@CWOTUS Thanks for beating me to it. I use CutePDF all the time. That plus a flatbed scanner.

However, the party I contacted most that way requested fax. I called them ahead of time explaining how that wasn’t an option for me, and they agreed to accept emails with PDF attachments beforehand.

I think it depends on what the position is though. If it is one that only requires basic computer skills, it is likely that many of the applicants don’t even really know what a file format is. If it is a more technical position though, then I can think of one other possibility; most employers I’ve contacted request .DOC format, the native format of MS Word. Much to my chagrin since I use Open Office and have occasionally forgotten to tell it not to use .ODT

Off-topic, but @HungryGuy, PDF hasn’t been a proprietary format since 2008.

You gave a specific instruction. They did not follow it. If, during the course of their work they did this, how could that affect your workplace, patients or other staff? It seems a medical assistant would need to be able to follow instructions very specifically. I would certainly judge the applicant on not following instructions. It might not prevent me inviting someone who ticked all the other boxes for an interview, but it would give them a big black mark against their application.

For those who did not have the means to produce a pdf version of their resume, they could have mentioned that in their letter to show they did recognise your request and had a valid reason for not complying with it.

I think it depends on the job you are hiring for. If it is a highly technical, detail oriented job, like an architect or an engineer, or an accountant, I think it WOULD make a difference. If not, and you can open it in Word, then I think the instructions were to limiting.

As some of your respondents seem to be missing one of the crucial points, it’s not whether you can open the file in Word (or some other word processor) or not. You want the file in .PDF form to protect the readers of the file.

People with a high regard for the security of their computers and their networks don’t open executable files on their computers without some assurance of safety. Word, Excel, Access, PowerPoint and other Office files (and not only those from Microsoft) can hide some very nasty viruses. Adding to the fact that you’re actually soliciting file attachments and they’re all coming from strangers… yikes.

@CWOTUS , shows how little I know. I guess in that case, I would put a disclaimer in the ad. “Only those resumes submitted in PDF format will be considered. All others will be disregarded.”

State on the application for resumes to be converted to pdf. This will snag a few seconds pause.

@CWOTUS while that was true before windows a few years ago with windows 7 and office2010 it is a lot harder for a word doc to run executable code than it is run an exploit from a pdf. So the security argument doesn’t work for me.

@gorillapaws, quite a few people have focused on the technical aspects of converting or submitting a pdf. Was the issue for you the ability to convert a document to a pdf or the ability to follow instructions?

@Bellatrix maybe a bit of both. In a way it was a fairly easy test of someone’s technical knowledge as most applicants are capable of using basic word processing etc, but it’s nice to know they can figure out how to do something they may never have been taught before—being able to figure out things on your own IS an important part of the job, even if the technical requirements are fairly tame. It’s also discouraging that people didn’t seem to acknowledge that they weren’t able to do so for some particular reason, and instead either tried to sneak in a different format hoping I wouldn’t notice, or simply didn’t pay enough attention to details.

I get the sense from many applicants that they just scattershot their applications to all postings that seem even remotely close to their interests without much thought or care, hoping that something will eventually stick.

I actually think it is a good test on many levels. I would question whether the lack of adherence was sneakiness or lack of attention to detail. I have found many people just miss the details. Which is of course very important in some jobs. We ask students to submit assignments in a specific format. I put this requirement in multiple places to ensure people don’t miss it. We get many, many submissions that miss this point.

The scattershot approach to applications is another indication of not reading and following instructions. My way of viewing applications in my area is if they can’t follow the simple instructions in that process, they won’t be much good to me as an employee. I, and I am sure you, need to know if you ask someone to follow a set of instructions, they can do it and if they are unsure how to follow those instructions, they will either do some research or will let you know they had difficulties.

Hope you find the right person anyway.

I personally wouldn’t be too hard. Look at the ones who did put it in pdf form first, but if you aren’t in love with them, consider the rest. If almost all of them aren’t following directions, that seems like it’s you, not them. And it is weird that a medical office job would ask for it in PDF form. No, don’t say ‘but they have to create pdfs for the chart’ – scanning a piece of paper in to EMR software is quite different from converting an already existing file to a pdf. The first is easily teachable, the second seems (for whatever reason) to require helping many people ‘unlearn what they have learned’.

@Aethelflaed “If almost all of them aren’t following directions, that seems like it’s you, not them.”

I thought this might be the case.

As far as the .pdf requirement goes, you’re right that they won’t be converting these things (typically) in their day-to-day, and that scanning in a .pdf is a very different kind of activity than converting file formats. Having said that, word files display differently in different situations on the Mac, PC, version-to-version etc. When you create a .pdf it guarantees that I’m seeing your resume in the exact way you intended for it to be shown to me on my screen. As @nikipedia pointed out, when you’re looking at a resume that has indentations, bullet point characters, and other formatting quirks, the odds that something will look different for me than what you intend goes way up.

I do find it interesting how widely the opinions vary in this discussion, and that fact alone helps me put things into perspective. It does seem like there’s a general consensus that people who properly followed the directions should at the very least be looked at first. It’s also interesting that most of the .pdf applicants tended to have more exciting resumes in terms of their appearance, polish, work experiences and education, etc. although I may be generalizing from only a handful of examples.

That’s fine for you and me, @Lightlyseared. Tell you what, though. You show me a business running Windows 7 and Office 2010, and I’ll show you ten running on XP, five on NT, and several on earlier versions of Windows, and all of them running Office pre-2010.

I agree with @HungryGuy. The legitimate software to make a pdf is expensive, and people who have it forget quickly how many people don’t. Unless this is a test in making a pdf, don’t exclude those applicants. In my opinion, it’s unfair to request that of the applicant.

Now, if they’ve failed to follow instructions that pertain to the fields in the application, or missed the fact that there should be a page 2, for example, then that might be a red flag. But I don’t think that this is.

@gorillapaws Did you consider posting an editable pdf for applicants online, so that your life would be easier? With fields that they can fill out, then save and send to you?

If it is via email why is a simple word document not sufficient? I agree it might show a lack of intention to detail, but I really think most of them have no idea what a pdf is. If you get them in an interview ask a few if they know the difference between a pdf and jpg, they will look at you with a blank stare I am guessing.

As long as they are quick learners you can teach them what needs to be done in your office.

@dappled_leaves CutePDF is free, and is basically a printer driver that outputs files instead of pages. Open Office is also free and can export to PDF. Now, getting the official Adobe software is expensive, but that doesn’t mean that you have to post a dime to create PDF files.

If you want responses in PDF format and you state clearly that is what you want, then it really doesn’t matter why you want it that way. If they do not give you what you want at the outset, it is unlikely they are going to give you what you want a month from now or a year from now…but they will have plenty of reasons why they should not do it the way you want it done. I would trash all who failed the PDF test and consider only those who passed it.

Those who don’t know how to make a .PDF file from whatever format the have should be opening up accounts and asking us.

Don’t get me wrong, I think if they don’t know they probably should have asked. But, if it is not a specific part of the job I would not trash the resume I don’t think.

creating a pdf is not proprietary anymore.
The issue may not be with the person, but with the directions.
If you are using it as a pre-test to check to see if they can read directions and handle a very simplistic task of pdf conversion, then leave it at that and delete any that are not in pdf format.
Being on both side of the process you see many poorly written submission sites and many spaceshots and ID10TS’ simply going through the submission process. I get more annoyed when they don’t even come close to the qualifications and skills need. What a waste of my time.

@JLeslie if it is not a specific part of the job

I can see your reasoning on this and it may be the right way to look at it. But since he specifically requested a response in PDF, the “specific part of the job” that is most important is following the boss’s directions to the “T”. Or so I think.

@plethora I think that way too generally. But, if someone really is clueless on the computer they really have no idea what a pdf is. They may be thinking that since they attached a document, that is attaching a pdf, especially if the applicants are over the age of 35. Clueless does not exactly excuse the oversight, but I think maybe they are not to be thrown in the circular file. It is something that can be taught in a second on the job. I am completely serious when I say most medical people are not savvy at all on computers. They can fill in a form on the computer once trained, but they don’t really know their way around microsoft office, they would not know a jpg can be altered and a pdf can’t.

I’d view it as a lack of attention to detail. If you have a number of quality candidates in the group of applicants who did submit their resumes correctly, then stick with them and chuck the others out.

@plethora Unfortunately, I also have a stereotype in my head of medical to be very punitive to staff. The staff tends to not ask questions or raise attention they might not know something (drives me crazy). They are very task oriented, do their task assigned, keep the blinders on, don’t think, don’t question. All a generalization of course, not true everywhere or everybody.

@jerv I have no doubt…. but I’d never heard of CutePDF before reading responses to this question, and the last time I tried a free pdf maker (admittedly a few years ago), it was clunky and buggy, and not terribly encouraging. I think it’s unrealistic to expect a wide range of applicants to both know it exists and not fear it would give them a virus or something.

@dappled_leaves They have evolved nicely. As for viruses, people will worry about something like CutePDF or Firefox yet not think twice about installing useless toolbars that often do contain malware.

@CWOTUS OK good point but the fact remains that PDF’s have never been a secure file format from the point of view of reduced risk of malware. Adobe reader has been exploited for years. Even using older versions of word and windowsit was possible to make them secure the only difference with newer versions is that microsoft made it much trickier for users to turn off the protections.
The only reason a company might choose to produce PDF’s over word doc’s was that it was easier to protect the document from being changed.

If the job is very computer tech oriented then this might be a good time to weed out those who didn’t follow directions. If not then I’d give them a break, as you said, if so many didn’t do it, it may have been your directions that fouled them up.
I have no clue what you are all talking about with doc and pdf and all that, but I can learn and have the desire to follow directions. I’m well over 35 and everything I know about computers (granted it isn’t much) I have learned on my own. Perhaps some of your applicants are in my boat, and don’t understand what you are asking them to do. They might be older, need and want a job, would be good employees but just don’t know what you are asking for.

@wilma Is that last part what you think applicants should have written? Or, is it an honest answer from you about doc and pdf?

@JLeslie It’s an honest answer from me about me.
Not what I would ever have written on an employment application. If I was unable to convert to pdf or didn’t know what I was being asked to do I would either have asked someone to help me with the application or sent it in the best way I knew how, and explained that I didn’t now how to send it as I was instructed to do.
I have suffered many hours and shed many tears trying to figure out how to do something, that most of you might consider very simple on the computer. I don’t want to be a whiner about it, it’s just a fact, some of us don’t know much about what we are doing on here and even the explainations are often over my head.

@wilma I was just curious, because you wrote what I have been saying all along, and I didn’t feel like anyone else was in the same frame of mind.

Am I in the minority in that anything I don’t know, I try to learn? I tink many here on Fluther are like that, but the average person….?

@jerv My point all along is the person may not know they don’t know it.

@JLeslie You mean that they would not ask, “What the hell is a PDF file?”? Whenever I ask that sort of question, it really isn’t a leap of logic to conclude that there is something I don’t know.

@jerv yes as I said up ^ there ^ If I was unable to convert to pdf or didn’t know what I was being asked to do I would either have asked someone to help me with the application or sent it in the best way I knew how, and explained that I didn’t now how to send it as I was instructed to do.
I would ask someone to help me, most likely I would come here to ask for help. I wasn’t always a Flutherer, so getting help before I knew about this place was very difficult for me. I’m a bit isolated, and don’t really have anyone to ask in person.

@jerv I personally would ask. But, things like html, pdf, blah blah, can just look like computer speak to people, and they might not see it as important. I know we cam argue they should think it is important, but for this job I get a feeling it isn’t. I am under the assumption whatever the person needs to do on a computer they willb e trained for. Believe me I see where everyone who isncoming from who keeps saying the applicant shouldbe more detail oriented and read the directions well, but knowing the people I know in the medical field, I would probably overlook it as long as I could easily train them what to do on the computer.

The job may very well be something that needs a person with the level of computer knowledge that would know how to do what was asked. If that is the case then I agree with those above that said that this would be a way to weed out the unqualified.

I just googled “What is a pdf?’ and came up with pages that told me exactly what it is and other sources for info…JUST on pdf. Ask.com is one reliable resource. It baffles me beyond comprehension that anyone who uses a computer in today’s world does not have enough presence of mind to at least TRY to find an answer. SO I would ditch them all, medical field or not, of they did not display the initiative to try to find out, and certainly explain if they could not do it. Lack of a reason for failure to perform (lack of communication) is a very good reason to disqualify an applicant.

@plethora When you run a medical facility I am getting my healthcare there.

As an aside, one manager I worked for at a hospital gave me a crappy review because I was too helpful. My managers before her thought I was fantastic, same hospital. There are a lot of managers like that one that gave me the crappy review. Don’t be creative, don’t ask a lot of questions, just do your job. Mistakes made, we’ll let you know, don’t do it again. I hated that attitude.

Well it is a stinky attitude @JLeslie. Sounds like the second person was threatened by you. You may have been showing them up.

@JLeslie Ah….and the location of the facility (that part of the state) probably has a lot to do with it too…..although, even in this part of the same state, I just recently witnessed such an attitude in one of the medical facilities here.

@plethora Possibly. I hate to generalize like that, but I have before. Customer Service is
lacking a lot in this neck of the woods. Not everywhere, but when someone does what I expect when I have a difficulty or complaint I am shocked. I expect staff to suck, especially in medical offices here. I one time was treated at Vanderbilt, and the service was extremely good. But, that is an exceptional facility and might not reflect health care in general in Nashville.

So, a similar question: Say you have a potential hire come in for a working interview. You ask the person to make you a cup of coffee, stating that you want it done with organic coffee beans. They go off and make you a cup of coffee, but it isn’t made with organic beans. Do you see this as a big error, showing that they cannot follow directions? Or is it a small enough issue that, even though it wasn’t organic, you did get a cup of coffee, and that’s what matters?

I would see it as not following directions. If I want something done a particular way, I want it done a particular way. The ability to follow instructions, and especially simple instructions, is important to me. When I delegate work to people and do take the time to say “this is what I need you to do” and then give very specific directions and they then don’t follow those instructions, I usually have to go back and do it myself OR I have to get them do it again. If I didn’t think it was important, I wouldn’t give the instruction.

An example. A friend of mine employed a research assistant. They were instructed to check certain websites at specific times. There was a reason those times were chosen. The person was given very specific instructions. It was important. They didn’t do that and basically buggered up a whole research project (which had been funded). When someone gives specific instructions, they might be being a control freak, or they might have very good reasons for asking the person to follow those instructions.

Not following instructions can be a big problem. In a medical facility, I would imagine it could have dire consequences if a person does not follow a doctor’s instructions.

@JLeslie Vanderbilt is very good. The situation I referred to actually occurred in a small section of the city that you could well compare to the entire area where you are located. And I lived for several years a couple hundred miles south of you and know what you are talking about. There are exceptions, but few and far between.

@all_who_say_its_free_to_make_PDFs – That’s true that there’s a few free ways of making PDFs, but most people don’t know about them. So again, unless the purpose of the requirement is to seek out computer literate applicants who are subject matter experts on PDFs, the requirement is counter productive.

@HungryGuy ”...but most people don’t know about them” but don’t you think it’s reasonable to expect people to try to search Google, ask on a website like this or others, or simply talk to a friend to find out?

The position certainly isn’t highly technical in nature, but if we get someone who’s fairly clueless then we could be looking at potentially putting patient data at risk (in a worst case scenario), or at the very least, generating support expenses from our contracted server administrator to purge any crap they may drag into our network.

I say that you should stick to your guns. There’s a reason that a lot of people are still unemployed. They seem to think that “a job” is a commodity that they have the same right “to have” as anyone else. You know differently. You need people who will read instructions and follow them, or at least say “I can’t follow your instructions because…” or “Please help me understand your instructions better.”

If you’re getting people who read your requirements and then say to themselves, “Eh, that’s too strange / difficult / confusing / inconvenient for me; they can take what I give them,” or even worse, “What requirement?”, then you don’t need them as employees.

If I didn’t even understand the application for a job, I might think twice about applying for that job.

And frankly I think knowing what a pdf is and how to create one is basic knowledge at this point. It would be like if someone gave you a hand-written resume because they didn’t understand how to type and didn’t care to learn.

All I can say is thank god I am self employed. lol

The hoops one has to jump through these days. Psht!

I just laugh at all the credit card solicitations I get stating that I have “proven my success.” haha

@dappled_leaves You do forget that the software to make .docs is really expensive. At this point, the most widely supported format whose documents can be free to produce is .pdf, which makes it a reasonable request for a job where you have to be able to work with them.

While both pdfs and docs can be created for free, the programs that create them are not hugely well-known, especially to those who aren’t quite as technology literate. It’s not unreasonable to think that someone was under the impression that pdfs were still proprietary and didn’t think to check if maybe things had changed in the past few years, or did try to find out how to change their resume to pdf form only to be told you needed to spend lots of money to do that.

@Vincentt That is true, but Microsoft Office is typically (I’m not talking about Open Office users) either included in the purchase of any new PC computer, or else it’s the first suite bought (or installed from an office/school licence). The widespread availability of Adobe Reader, as a free means for any user to read pdfs means that far fewer users will invest in Adobe Pro, which allows you to create pdfs. I regularly encounter university students, for example, who don’t even know that you can edit a pdf.

@Aethelflaed didn’t think to check if maybe things had changed in the past few years, or did try to find out how to change their resume to pdf form only to be told you needed to spend lots of money to do that.

Which is a darn good reason to trash their resume. Very little initiative. One google search tells you everything you need to know about a pdf and how to do it.