Just how secularized have public schools become compared to years past?

Yeah, it’s kind of depressing now. At least to me anyway. They did play the dreidel song at my daughter’s orchestra concert the other night, which cracked me up.

@WillWorkForChocolate I didn’t find it depressing at all, actually. The kids were having a blast.
In fact, I was pleasantly surprised at how playful and fun it was.

It’s just depressing for me to see how much it’s changed since I was in school. Makes me feel old, LOL!

@WillWorkForChocolate oh, yeah, I can relate to that. haha.
Then again, the simple act of counting out just how many years I’ve been out of school was kind of painful.

It’s been 14 years for me. Sshhh!

It’s not the norm at my old high school, nor is it the norm at the local school where I am now. Some of my old neighbors still have children in high school, and they always tell me about what’s going on (because I was a big choir and theater guy, and so are their kids). This year’s play was Dickens’ A Christmas Carol, and the choir performed “Carol of the Bells,” a few selections from Handel’s Messiah, a Hanukkah song (which they’ve done every year since before I was even born), and a couple of winter songs.

I don’t know the specifics of what was performed at the local high school here, but I know it couldn’t have been too secular. Some of my fellow karate students are in high school and very religious. They would have complained (probably while complaining about how three of the stores at the mall don’t say “Merry Christmas” here).

To what extent these two schools are representative, though, I cannot say.

I don’t really know if it is the norm now, or whether it should or shouldn’t be. I think you would really have to get hard evidence from a large number of public schools to be able to make a real determination on this one. There is a lot of misinformation out there, a lot of people with one or another point of view, people with an ax to grind one way or the other, people with reasons to claim that the schools have become totally secularized and no one is allowed to celebrate Christmas anymore, whether or not that is actually true, and people who say that the claim that kids not able to celebrate Christmas in public schools is not at all true. It’s hard to say.

The only thing I remember is one year we were saying the pledge, then the next year we weren’t lol.

@Blackberry yeah, we always said the pledge. When did that change? Do you remember?

Maybe my high school is just behind the times (I wouldn’t be surprised) but at our Christmas concerts we played typical Christmas music (often with a Hanukkah song or two thrown in), including the Hallelujah chorus. And a teacher would read ‘Twas the Night Before Christmas. We also had almost no diversity whatsoever. I’m only two years out of high school so I don’t think it’s probably changed much since then.

@Blackberry The pledge? Really? It would be one thing to revert to the original version, but I’m shocked that it is gone altogether. My old school still does it everyday, and my old history teacher still risks legal trouble every year by forcing the students to stand and recite it.

I believe it was my freshman year in high school, so 2000.

The schools in the community we lived in for 16 years and raised our sons were very PC with their Christmas programs. We were very surprised when we moved where we live now and our daughter’s Christmas program was full of traditional/religious songs. It was quite refreshing. They sang the songs we (my husband and I) grew up with. We live in a very rural area, farming community, so that may have something to do with keeping with the tradition?

I can hardly compare to HS, but I noticed recently when traveling on business in the Baton Rouge LA area, eating at a local restaurant, that it was full of traditional Christmas music and the staff said Merry Christmas. Thank God for the Cajuns!!!

My son is in high school, my daughter in middle school, and I don’t see any real difference from when I was in high school. They play a lot of the same music, do the same plays.

My schools I went to never had prayer in school. I was just asking auggie about decorations, and she remembers Christmas decoration in elementary, but not high school, which is kind of how I remember it. The pledge of allegiance was at the beginning of the school day (I don’t consider it religious, but I know some religious people think taking the pledge out of school is part of the war on religion). Most schools still do the pledge.

@plethora Christmas music is playing all over town in restaurants, grocery stores, malls. Cashiers wishing me Merry Christmas. What are you talking about?

@ANef_is_Enuf The kids just like to sing, and perform, it doesn’t matter what the material is. A women complained to me the kids can’t have any fun anymore in school because they can’t celebrate Christmas with parties in school. I replied, they can still have a holiday party that is ridiculous. People make it more than it is in my opinion, it seems to me the people who are freaked perceive some sort of war on Christianity, God, and Religion. There simply isn’t a war. I know some evangelicals see secular as an afront against religion, but to most of us secular is neutral. Children can see the nativity play at their church, and sing the more religious carols in church and caroling in the neighborhood.

I think probably the medium sized and larger cities in the bible belt feel the most change on these things. The small towns still get away with it, but the larger cities are becoming more and more diverse over time and can’t do it.

Places like NYC were likely to secularize the holidays or try to cover all of them even many many years ago, because a huge percentage of the population wasn’t and aren’t Christian. NYC has been about 25% Jewish for many many years, since I can remember. Half of all caucasians in NYC are Jewish. That does not even count all the Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Etc.

Friends of my family moved from NY to Sunrise, FL when their kids were young about 35 years ago. The kids came home singing Jesus love me from school one day. They thought out loud, what the hell is going on? Total shock.

I don’t think secular is the norm these days..more like ‘we won’t push santa on you but everyone should come and see santa’ – kind of hard to avoid, you know? anyway, I grew up in Communist Russia, there was no sign of religion anywhere in school…it’s how I like it.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir And, is Santa secular? I know for me Santa went to the houses of the children who celebrated Christmas.

My kids are all in high school, and the youngest plays clarinet in the marching band and orchestra. They’re having a concert tomorrow night, and past concerts lead me to believe there will be some non-religious Christmas and Hanukkah songs (maybe about Santa and dreidls, for instance, but not about god.) It’s not called a Christmas concert, and they have “winter break” and “spring break”, not “Christmas break” or “Easter break”. I like it this way.

I realize schools are different than than Disney World, but we went to Epcot last week. We saw the Candlelight Processional with Isabella Rossellini as the narrator, a 500 member choir and a 50 piece orchestra. She read straight from Matthew in the Bible and the music included O Holy Night, Shout for Joy, What Child is This?, O Come All Ye Faithful, Hallelujah Chorus, Rejoice with Execeeding Great Joy, Away in a Manger, Angels We Have Heard on High and Silent Night. Not one secular song or word was spoken. It was completely about the birth of Jesus as the Messiah.

Disney World of all places. A place with people of every race, nationality and creed.

@bkcunningham Like you said, not a school. I actually like the religious Christmas songs best.

@JLeslie I don’t think he is.

People approach the removal of religion with a terrible dread as if our children will become axe murderers without the influence of religion to keep them on the straight and narrow.

Personally, I find the commemoration of a savior’s birth in hiding and the eventual torture and murder of the same savior as truly depressing. I would much rather have children enjoy winter sports, mid-winter parties, and receive gifts brought by mythical fat men that aren’t intent on molesting them. The less church the better. Besides forcing religion on children he a heinous form of child abuse. Wait for a child to grow up before you subject him or her to voting military service, drinking, or religion. Please don’t warp young minds with visions of hellfire and perpetual punishment for sins their ancestors committed.