I am probably going to purchase a MacBook soon and I was wondering...

Two recommendations: 1) Don’t use XP Home. Stick with XP Professional. And, 2) don’t download a bootleg copy or borrow it from a friend. You can buy Xp online.

OK AND why dont use XP home?

Well you need to get Parallels, which is one of the best Virtual Machine I’ve ever used. I use Vista, and that was a huge mistake, so I need two more gigs of ram. Thats would bring you to a total 4 gigs of ram so you can run your Mac at great operating speeds as well as Windows at the same time.

You dont need Parallels you could use VMware Fusion and you don’t need either of them because boot camp is free and already installed in Mac OS X. Then you download the software. You can run Windows without them just not side by side and you have to restart to get back to Mac

I use VirtualBox to run Windows (XP and Vista) and Ubuntu alongside OS X. It is free and open source. While it isn’t as smooth as Parallels or Fusion it does work pretty well.

im still very puzzled about this, i mean, i’ve never understood why you’re getting a mac if your planning to use windows, so please do tell me, WHY PISS IN A PIE ?

@iwamoto, that is terrible analogy and very stupid question. Lets say you want all the efficiency of a mac, but your job requires a windows operating system, or you just want to run windows applications because they don’t make them for mac. So its like having 2 computers with only buying one, it’s kind of like asking a person why they bought that truck that can be constructed into an SUV, why did you buy that, you could have just bought 2 cars.

ok well i dont care (no offense) johnpowell

and iwamoto:

i want a mac for all the features of a mac and windows for all its features.

hmmm, i wonder if our swimming dude has a job that requers him to use bootcamp, i mean, there’s little to no application you can’t run on a mac, you name it, the mac has it, usualy even better (and yes, i know it’s not that great at computer games)

i mean, im not against it, if he realy wants to he should do it, but why? i mean, i wouldn’t do it, i realy would know no reason for it

@xxporkxsodaxx -

He doesn’t ‘need’ to get parallels – in fact this is a poor suggestion because a) Parallels is not the best virtualisation tool for Mac, that would be VMWare – and b) if he’s happy enough choosing between Windows and OS X at startup, then why spend money on virtualisation at all, when Boot camp comes free with Leopard, installed on all new Macs?

It essentially depends on how heavyweight the windows functionality needs to be – if, like me, you’re just using it for being able to tinker in windows when you need to, virtualisation is a good route to go, in spite of the cost, because of the ability to run alongside the Mac OS – but boot camp will give you a better performance out of the box because it’s running windows natively.

Swimmindude – the link on Amazon you provided is for an Upgrade license, meaning you would need to have Windows 98 or ME already installed on the Mac (which is more hassle than it’s worth, in my opinion). This One will do your system justice, if you’re needing to keep to the legal side.

7

“OK AND why dont use XP home?”

The following features are not present in Windows XP Home Edition. (Pinched from here )

Power user

• Remote Desktop – All versions of Windows XP—including Home Edition—support Remote Assistance, which is an assisted support technology that allows a help desk or system administrator to remotely connect to a client desktop for troubleshooting purposes. But Only Pro supports the new Remote Desktop feature, which is a single-session version of Terminal Services with two obvious uses: Mobile professionals who need to remotely access their corporate desktop, and remote administration of clients on a network. You can access a Windows XP Remote Desktop from any OS that supports a Terminal Services client (such as Windows 98 and, interestingly XP Home). XP Home can act as the client in a Remote Desktop session; only Pro can be the server.

* Multi-processor support – Windows XP Pro supports up to two microprocessors, while Home Edition supports only one.

* Automated System Recovery (ASR) – In a somewhat controversial move, Microsoft has removed the Backup utility from the default Windows XP Home Edition, though it is available as an optional installation if you can find it on the CD-ROM (hint: it’s in the /valueadd folder). The reason for this the integration of Microsoft’s new Automated System Recovery (ASR) tool into Backup. In Pro, ASR will help recover a system from a catastrophic error, such as one that renders the system unbootable. ASR-enabled backups are triggerable from XP Setup, allowing you to return your system to its previous state, even if the hard drive dies and has to be replaced. Unlike consumer-oriented features such as System Restore, ASR is not automatic: It must manually be enabled from within the Backup utility in Windows XP Pro. In any event, while there is a Backup utility available for Home Edition, you cannot use ASR, even though mentions of this feature still exist in the UI. Confusing? Yes. But it’s better than no Backup at all, which was the original plan.

* Dynamic Disk Support – Windows XP Professional (like its Windows 2000 equivalent) supports dynamic disks, but Home Edition does not (instead, HE supports only the standard Simple Disk type). Dynamic disks are not usable with any OS other than Windows 2000 or Windows XP Pro, and they cannot be used on portable computers. Likewise, Home Edition does not include the Logical Disk Manager.

* Fax – Home Edition has no integrated fax functionality out of the box, though it is an option you can install from the XP Home CD.

* Internet Information Services/Personal Web Server – Home Edition does not include the IIS Web server 5.1 software found in Pro.

Security

• Encrypting File System – Windows XP Professional supports the Encrypting File System (EFS), which allows you encrypt individual files or folders for local security (EFS is not enabled over a network). EFS-protected files and folders allows users to protect sensitive documents from other users.

* File-level access control – Any user with Administrator privileges can limit access to certain network resources, such as servers, directories, and files, using access control lists. Only Windows XP Professional supports file-level access control, mostly because this feature is typically implemented through Group Policy Objects, which are also not available in Home Edition.

* “C2” certification – Microsoft will attempt to have Windows XP Professional certified with the “C2” security designation, a largely irrelevant status, but one which will not be afforded to Home Edition.

Management

• Domain membership – Home Edition cannot be used to logon to an Active Directory domain. For obvious reasons, the Domain Wizard is also missing in Home Edition.

* Group Policy – Since Home Edition cannot be used to logon to an Active Directory domain, Group Policy—whereby applications, network resources, and operating systems are administered for domain users—is not supported either.

* IntelliMirror – Microsoft lumps a wide range of semi-related change and configuration management technologies under the IntelliMirror umbrella, and none of these features are supported in the consumer oriented Home Edition. IntelliMirror capabilities include user data management; centrally-managed software installation, repair, updating, and removal; user settings management; and Remote Installation Services (RIS), which allows administrators to remotely install the OS on client systems.

* Roaming profiles – This feature allows users to logon to any computer in an Active Directory network and automatically receive their customized settings. It is not available in Home Edition, which cannot logon to an Active Directory domain.

Corporate deployment

• Multi-language support – Only Windows XP Professional will ship in a Multi-Language version or support multiple languages in a single install.

* Sysprep support – Windows XP Pro will support the System Preparation (Sysprep) utility, while Home Edition will not.

* RIS support – See the IntelliMirror heading in the previous section; Home Edition does not support RIS deployments.

64-bit Edition

• Microsoft is shipping a 64-bit version of Windows XP for Intel Titanium systems that mirrors the Professional Edition feature-set.

Networking features

The following networking features are not included in Home Edition:

• The user interface for IPSecurity (IPSec)
* SNMP
* Simple TCP/IP services
* SAP Agent
* Client Service for NetWare
* Network Monitor
* Multiple Roaming feature

User interface features

• Windows XP Home Edition has some different default settings that affect the user interface. For example, Guest logon is on by default in Home, but off in Pro. The Address bar in Explorer windows is on in Pro by default, but off in Home. During the beta period, Microsoft had intended to use a business-oriented shell theme (“Professional”) by default in Pro and the “Luna” consumer theme in Home Edition. But feedback from corporate users suggested that everyone liked the consumer-oriented Luna theme better, and development of the Professional theme was cancelled. Other user interface features that are present in Pro but not Home include: Client-side caching

• Administrative Tools option on the Start menu (a subset of the Admin tools are still present in Home, however).

@iwamoto, my father has to have a particular application to so he can connect to the server at his office and when he is over seas on business.

@benseven, thats an opinion, there is no way to describe something as the best unless it is the only product that does that certain function and is not made by someone or somewhere else. I could say that Sony Bravias are the best TVs when you could think otherwise, you can give me any situation, besides the one I just described, and I could name something else that I prefer over the one do. Now Boot Camp is something that I would call insufficient at running windows because you have to restart your computer every time you want to switch, but with Parallels, you can switch at will just by clicking out of the virtual machine.

Insufficient is a daft term to use, given that using boot camp runs the OS natively, and as such is actually more efficient than virtualising the OS within another OS. Slightly less practical, yes, but renders a better performance from Windows, and as I mentioned is included and so essentially free.

“there is no way to describe something as the best unless it is the only product that does that certain function and is not made by someone or somewhere else”

This is not true – if something performs the best out of it’s competitors, it’s… the best.

I’m aware of how Parallels works, because I used it for a year. Then it corrupted my entire Windows VM and I switched to VMWare fusion, which is widely regarded in the virtualisation industry as the best tool for running Windows virtually under OS X. I have also previously had a boot camp installation, for around 6 months, and have set up several Windows-on-Mac solutions for friends previously.

So there’s my collected experience / expertise stated in the field of Windows on Mac – I’d be intrigued to hear why having tested all the major players is regarded as an ‘opinion’ rather than the factual result of extensive use at a high-end user level, which just so happens to be echoed by many other end users…

n00b. yeah, I said it!

Well you need to take into consideration that you would have to use both of those other applications for a full year as you have with Parallels. It’s like saying well I had an iPhone for a month and then I dropped it and broke, so I decided to get a Blackberry yesterday and I’ve had absolutely no problems and is by far the best phone I’ve ever used.

Your being very ignorant, an opinion is only an opinion. In an easier way to describe it, what you think is the best can greatly differ than what I think is the best. I know a lot of people that say the iPhone sucks, but I have one and I think it is the best phone I’ve ever had.

That reply really gets my goat.

Firstly, you’ve greatly exaggerated the differences in period of use between my examples, and your example involving a month, and a day? 6 months is a long time. There are reviewers of these products who test them for less than a week and comment on their stability. The dfifference between using something for 6 months and a year is irrelevant, because the criteria here is that the chosen utility sufficiently emulates or runs Windows stably and quickly (incidentally, other criteria such as features like ‘Coherence’ or ‘Unity’ on the virtualisation tools can also provide comparison to decide on the best tool for the job).

The length of time used has no actual bearing on the performance of the software, provided the period of time is sufficient enough to have explored all aspects of the product and tested it running various tasks.

Secondly, you accuse me of ignorance, and yet:

“Now Boot Camp is something that I would call insufficient at running windows because you have to restart your computer every time you want to switch”

Let’s deconstruct that. You call Boot Camp ‘Insufficient at running Windows’ – this means, as it reads, that the software does not perform adequately to run Windows – you then quantify this with the disadvantage of having to restart to switch. Switching is not a feature of Windows, and I have stated from experience that Boot camp is adequate to run Windows – something that being able to switch back to OS X has nothing to do with. Ironically, in comparison to Parallels who you seem set on standing up for, Boot camp actually runs Windows better because it’s native.

What further annoys me, is the fact that as we can see from your replies to this question, you have experience with Parallels but neither of the other two tools – because if you did have, you wouldn’t be debating whether or not it’s the best solution. I have experience with all three, both operating systems in question to a power user level, but you feel the need to debate it further.

It’s clear from the majority of your posts in this thread that you’re one of the fantastic contributors to this site who likes to get out of his / her depth in conversations they don’t actually carry any level of expertise or experience in, in the interest of furthering their love of ‘Debating’, and muddying the water for the person who asked the question originally – who ironically in this case seems more informed on the current state of Windows under OS X than you are.

Good luck with MENSA.

I recommend not even using Windows until you’re absolutely sure you need it. You can open and edit Word formats with included software in Mac, and things like that. The only real reason to get windows, if you ask me, is for gaming. If you need professional word processing or presentation software, get Keynote. It’s easier and better than using Office on a PC, and Office on Mac is harder to use than Office on Windows.

exactly, that’s what i was talking about, but im afraid he’ll just say “no, no, and double no, i need it, i can’t do without windows!!!”

@iwamota
I can’t easily test websites in IE without running Windows (the web based alternatives suck). For some of us it is necessary. I can’t pay my rent if things don’t work in IE.

i know you use it JP, but from what feedback he is giving us, he’s an inexperienced lad, so the chance of him using it for his job is extremely slim, catch my drift?

@ iwamoto – That’s an interesting point.

SwimminDude – can you give us some very specific examples of things you hope to run or use in Windows, and we’ll help you look out the Mac alternatives and workarounds?

well, i want to make myself a bit more clear on this point, i’ve had customers buying a mac, telling me proudly how they will only run windows on it, because they’re affraid of OS X, i mean, i know it’s a dive from the high board, but trust me, you wont lose your trunks, you’ll just want to do it again, and again, so please stay away from that horrid windows for now….and don’t max out your RAM

I definitely agree with iwamoto. Windows is hyped. You have to realize that Mac OS X is not the most popular OS. They’re trying, and doing a great job at it. The market is just so biased that Mac’s aren’t as popular. Apple is trying so hard that you can do anything almost out of the box. I think that’s amazing. Windows doesn’t try hard at all because they already have all the customers. Apple is trying, and surpassing. They have to constantly come up with revolutionary technologies to steal the market. They’re asking themselves “What can we make that will make these people realize that you can do anything on a Mac, and do it better than on PC?” They already can, but not many know it. For instance, did you know you can read Word documents just by selecting the file and pressing space? Same with PowerPoint presentations. And with iWork ‘08, you pretty much get an easier version of PowerPoint, Word, Excel, and Publisher. iWork ‘08 includes Pages ‘08 (which lets you open and modify files in formats like Word and Pages), Keynote ‘08 (which lets you open and modify files in formats like PowerPoint and Keynote), and Numbers ‘08 (which lets you open and modify files in formats like Excel and Numbers). And like I said, all three of these programs are easier to use than the Office program that does the same thing. And they all look better when you’re done. Mail and iCal are also your excellent substitute for Outlook, and they come for free on any Mac. The only major Office program I don’t know how to open on a Mac is Publisher. But it’s not missed on most occasions because I can make flyers and posters and such in Pages ‘08, and I LOVE what I make in Pages. I walk around looking for things to make in Pages because it’s so fun and so easy and looks so beautiful when it’s done. Oh, and did I mention iWork ‘08 is only $79? That’s not an upgrade for previous users of iWork, it’s an all in one box with iWork. If you have a previous version of iWork, or if you don’t have iWork and you want to start, just pick up the iWork ‘08 package, and you’ll be off in no time. (It literally takes probably 10 minutes to install)

@benseven, I am in MENSA, also, I have used VWware and Boot Camp, I know how they perform and I prefer Parallels of them BOTH. Now I did have a wording problem in one of my earlier statements, I should have said that Boot Camp is insufficient at running Windows and OS X at the same time. I understand that some people might not have a need or want to be able to switch between Windows and OS X freely, but again for the 3rd time, it is an OPINION not a fact.

To answer your first response, yes it DOES have an effect of the product with the longer you use it, the longer you use it, the more chances you have to mess it up. If you are testing something, you have to have a control, and you have to have certain guidelines to follow. You CANNOT determine the functionality of a product with varying times of use, frequency of use, and what you have done to it and what you have used it for.

Ignorant: destitute of knowledge or education; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified

If you took the time to realize the sentence that it’s in, then you would have probably given me a legitimate response instead of something that meanders away from statement made. I will answer your statement though, as I stated earlier, some people have different uses for a virtual machine. I would say that switching back and forth freely is way better than a slight increase in efficiency in running windows. I have the need to switch, for one, I enjoy listening to music while I work, and because storing all my music twice within my laptop is fruitless, so I store it once and just switch back and forth. Second, I have applications that don’t run on Windows i.e. Keynote, Pages, etc., and when I have to get multiple things done I, as most people would need to switch back and forth so I can make a presentation and keep up with work, or whatever else I need to do.

Also I am arguing that it is the best, I have used VMware and Boot Camp as I stated earlier. VMware is something I do like, but I would not choose it over Parallels because of how reliable Macintosh applications that come from Apple are. Boot Camp is something that just gives me inconvenient situations where I have to go through much more to get back on my Mac.

@xxporkxsodaxx

you do know you can export keynote presentations as QuickTime and/or PowerPoint files, right? you can open them in Windows. It’s possible. I do it almost every day.
Same with Pages. You can export to Word.
And Numbers can export to Excel.

I have iWork ‘08 and I’ll explain all the formats you can export to in each program.
Pages ‘08: Pages, PDF, Word, RTF, Plain Text
Keynote ‘08: Keynote, QuickTime, PowerPoint, PDF, Images, Flash, HTML, iPod
Numbers ‘08: Numbers, PDF, Excel, CSV

Also, in Pages ‘08 and Keynote ‘08, you can save a copy of your file in an older format of the the same program. Ex: save a Presentation as a Keynote ‘06 file instead of Keynote ‘08, even though you’re running Keynote ‘08. This is the first Numbers program (‘08), so there is no older format of Numbers to save it in.

Hmm I didn’t know that, I’ll have to look into it. Thanks

you didnt know that? shrugs

No, sadly I didn’t, I am not specialized in computers, and my job doesn’t require me to work with Macs, so I guess I never took the time to look for that, or try and move things over like that. I’ve always just used Microsoft Office to do all of my presentations at school and work so I had no real big use for moving the files and changing the format like that, I usually only uses Pages for reports, and Keynote to do personal family business.

Clarification needed: “but I would not choose it over Parallels because of how reliable Macintosh applications that come from Apple are” – Parallels isn’t made by Apple, neither is VMWare?

As an aside, VMWare makes virtualisation of the boot camp partition easier than under Parallels, meaning the best of both worlds (virtualisation and native, both of the same Windows installation).

“You CANNOT determine the functionality of a product with varying times of use, frequency of use, and what you have done to it and what you have used it for.”

Now, pay close heed – I have not mentioned, at any point, varying frequencies of use, what I have ‘done to it’ or what I have used it for – these are factors you have introduced to make my review of the various options seem less scientific? Funnily enough, none of these things changed (much) from system to system, because when one installs Windows and one continues to use the machine in the day to day, the same situations for requiring or desiring the use of XP arise and they play out more or less the same. I suppose you believe that in fact software reviewers should do the same thing, test all products in a scientific and controlled manner for set period of time, else their reviews are invalid? If a product is worth its salt, especially in facilitating the hosting of a guest OS, it will be just as stable after a year as it was after 6 months.

“I would say that switching back and forth freely is way better than a slight increase in efficiency in running windows.”

Well, this again depends on the use of the OS. If it’s heavyweight use, I.E needing to run Photoshop, for instance: the Boot Camp figure according to a handful of review benchmarks is around 45% more efficient than under a virtual environment, and that kind of performance can make all the difference.

The reason I raise this as a point, is that our aim throughout this is to help present the case for the various options available, for the benefit of SwimminDude and the wider community – but no assumption should be made about what his use of the OS will be, because this hasn’t been stated (yet). Incidentally, I agree with you, which is why I run a virtualised environment rather than Boot Camp – but every user is different, and for a large number of people, Boot Camp is the preferred option on cost, out-of-the-box working and power behind the OS (Native).

My point being, what we’ve established is that we both have experience with all three options (something that was not apparent from your earlier postings, and I would perhaps look less of a fool had you laid those cards on the table) – however, my opinion is also informed by a number of reviews and general sentiment amongst colleagues who do use Macs for work, that VMWare is the premier tool for virtualisation, that they use day in day out.

“No, sadly I didn’t, I am not specialized in computers, and my job doesn’t require me to work with Macs”

Ignorant: destitute of knowledge or education; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified

I think we’re done, dude.

Can we drop the pissing match? Answer the question or STFU.

@johnpowell – kudos, before you get moderated! (is pissing allowed?!)

I mean, the guy hasn’t even centralized his iTunes library across both OSes… : (

Ok now I have somethings to do, but the ignorant remark you are making has nothing to do with the topic, you misinterpreted the way I used it, and I was saying you are being ignorant about OPINIONS, nothing of that has to do about Keynote presentations or Pages being moved into Windows format. You need some more education in the speech department and interpreting the English language.

@xxporkxsodaxx
Read the question. This doesn’t help. And I know my answers didn’t either.

@benseven
I’m pretty sure my comment will see another day.

You need some more education in the speech department and interpreting the English language.

“Well you need to get Parallels, which is one of the best Virtual Machine I’ve ever used. I use Vista, and that was a huge mistake, so I need two more gigs of ram. Thats would bring you to a total (of?) 4 gigs of ram so you can run your Mac at great operating speeds as well as Windows at the same time.”

Yes, Pork Soda. One day I too hope to have the understanding and command of the English language you so clearly demonstrate through your informed, well-crafted responses…

Goodnight, dear fellow (for it is night time where I am).

“We must always think about things, and we must think about things as they are, not as they are said to be.” – George Bernard Shaw

I’m pretty sure everyone needs to stop until swimmindude replies. For all we know, he may not need any more answers, and here everyone is arguing. When you take a few steps back, it’s pretty funny. A lot of the answers don’t have anything to do with this topic. And a lot of the ones that do are too long for anyone to take the time to read. What’s really funny, we’re all Mac people fighting about Windows. I literally laughed out loud. It’s Windows guys, it’s nowhere near worth even TALKING about! Haha!

@ bmhit1991 – a fine point.

You’ll notice I’ve started trying to back away, because it is, in essence, pointless. I would say the debate has probably helped more than you make out, because SwimminDude seems quite well informed already about Virtualisation vs Native and the cost factors involved, which are actually the main considerations when it comes down to it.

The reason the debate started, which I think was important, is as much as Fluther can be a resource for information, it can also be a source for costly mis-information. The need for additonal software purchase was overstated, as was the hardware specification required to achieve this, something which could easily have lead to Swimmindude spending additional unneccesary funds on additional RAM not required for most tasks under Virtualisation. As he’s already expressed cost to be a factor, in another thread, in his initial Mac purchase, advising that any additional spending be required is potentially harmful to the wallet area.

Heck, I’ve learnt a lot from this thread about trying not to be a douche / assuming factors, if nothing else.

I’m troubled – I just read SwimminDude’s profile and it reads:

“Hey I know LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS ABOUT COMPUTERS AND DELL AND ESPECIALLY APPLE. ASK ME QUESTIONS AND I WILL HOPEFULLY ANSWER IT.”

Oh, and my final 2¢ (i believe):
If you really need Windows, I’d say get a different machine. I really cheap one, and then get a decked out Mac for main use. While someone might say that that’s totally inconvenient, and useless, there are some more important factors to consider. Windows is weak weak weak in security. That’s why a lot of places repairs PC’s. Mac OS X is very very very strong in terms of security. That’s why there are very few places that repair Mac’s. If there were many more, they wouldn’t get any business at all because they almost never crash. But put Windows on a Mac, and you’re vulnerable to all those Windows viruses, even on a Mac. If you get a Windows virus…on a Mac…have fun finding a place to fix it. Apple itself is just about the only place you’ll find.

~ Actually – not quite accurate.

1. Virtual Machine – if your virtual machine gets a virus, it’s contained within the VM Image – it can’t replicate itself any further than the inside of the disk image that contains windows. You can delete the VM, because you’ve been good and made sure you have a backup of your data and a .ASR file to recover all your settings : ) It’s like keeping Windows in a jar.

2. Native – If you’re using boot camp, and you get a serious virus infestation, the Windows installation is on a seperate partition anyway (which appears like a seperate disk) and can be formatted to wipe the Windows installation and Virus with it, if necessary (it’s a bit drastic) but again the chances of this actually screwing up your Mac itself are very, very small because it’s contained. Windows under boot camp doesn’t have write access to your Mac partition without a tool like Macdrive

If you need great virus protection for free, for windows, try Avast (registration required, but free and excellent).

Lastly, anyone debating Parallels vs VMWare should check out this Lifehacker article about the beta of the new version of Fusion. I’d wait until the full RC comes out, but check out the number of switchers in the comments…

Also, there’s the nice tasty scientific tests that should settle the debate, a little…

I was wrong. Thank you. Didn’t know that. What about BootCamp though? I’d use that just because it’s the cheapest and I wouldn’t use Windows enough to buy something other than the OS to run it. Just for games that I rarely play. Is that only stored on your partition, that you can simply just wipeout at any time?

Yeah, totally.

Boot Camp itself is a) a Wizard within OS X to create a seperate partition on the hard drive for windows and b) a set of drivers for the Windows install you put on that partition to make all the apple hardware play nice with Windows. It works very well, is supported by Apple, and will render the best performance for running Windows on a mac, if you can live without the ease of virtual switchability. As you point out, it’s also effectively free.

You can re-format the windows partition at any time using Disk Utility in OS X (or, the boot camp wizard again if I remember correctly), either to wipe Windows and start again or to re-join the partitioned space to your Mac drive.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANKS EVERYONE FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTION AND i AM USING WINDOWS FOR AIM BECAUSE AIM ON MAC STINKS! (NOT iChat BUT ACTUAL AIM LIKE THE PROGRAM) BUT I GUESS I COULD LIVE WITH OUT IT. THANKS AGAIN

yeah, i mean, using AIM on adium does not work, right now im chatting with klaas4 and it’s like not working…if using a totally different OS for one chat program is the way you work, are you sure you’re up to a mac?

YA THAT IS REALLY THE ONLY PROGRAM THAT I WANT FOR WINDOWS

what does it offer that for instance adium can’t offer you? and please not that just because you’re using windows does not give you an excuse to use caps

Ok sorry i had left it on. Anyway what is adium?

it’s a portal to an parallel universe where up is left and light is black…and where using google is impossible

WHAT??????????

Wow…

@iwamoto – I use AIM on Adium for work, every day – it does work.

SwimminDude:

AIM is a service, not an application.
There are a few different applications you can use for AIM.
One of them is called Adium
It lets you be signed onto AIM, but also other services like MSN, at the same time.
There are loads of extensions and custom themes for it, and it’s much better than the AIM application or iChat.

Though iwamoto is having problems with Adium, this shouldn’t put you off – there are a lot of people who aren’t (like most of the Mac users in my office, for instance).

i know, i was being sarcastic, adium works great, maybe i should have put in a wink :p i visit the adium xtras page every day i must admit, it’s just wonderfull