What do you think of the stereotyped feminity?

I would be interested to know what your cultural background is. What you have described is very reminiscent of the 1950s in America, not so much today. Empathy, sensitivity, nurturing(all very useful for child rearing, which is still, predominantly the woman’s role, yes, but cooking, “dressing lady-like”, “not too talkative” etc. not so much

Don’t you think it is still present today, not as much as how it was before, but it is still here.
Example: The women who are not in this description of feminity category are often not chosen over the women who are in this description of feminity. (by men, of course).

Again, I think it differs by culture. Some men, of course prefer the “traditional” type of somewhat submissive women, but not nearly to the extent that you would imply. Most of the men I know, that were not raised with those 1950s ideals, prefer women who are intelligent, contributing members of the partnership, so they (the men) don’t have to feel that they are carrying all the weight. They find it is much more satisfying to spend time with an honest person, not someone who is a toady at home, catering to their every whim.
OK, guys, you gonna aboard now and argue with me? I dare ya! ;-)

@Earthflag I’d have to disagree with you. I want a woman that’s going to kick my ass when I deserve it, tells me what she wants, and demands my best.

The problem with all stereotypes is that they’re only partially true and apply to only a portion of the group in question. They can never be representative on all people in that group.

At best, stereotypes are lazy shorthand. At worst, they are an indictment against an entire group and an excuse to treat them as “less than”.

Once I’ve recognized a stereotype (as you may have done here), I make an effort to look past it and see people as individuals.

Where did you come up with that description? Women are astronauts, fire fighters, medical doctors who laugh and talk as loudly as they please.

Also “aught”, really?

Yes, that’s right. Which doesn’t really go out of the description. But a woman like Joan Jett for instance is not in the category of the stereotyped woman. I’m not saying I love that description, because I don’t.

What stereotyped femininity? In which culture? In which sub-culture? in which community of that subculture? In which sub-community of that sub-culture? In which groups of individuals of that sub-group within that sub-community of that sub-culture?

Do you see what I’m getting at?

I sort of feel like it is a stereotype of men to say that most of them prefer this stereotype of women.

I don’t like this stereotype of femininity – don’t like any stereotype that says I should behave a certain way because of some category you can file me under – but I don’t know if it’s actually all that widespread.

What does “good at bed” mean? I know no women who would list that on their job description.

You don’t need to be the one which (sic) is loved by most men. Most of us want just the love of one person, man or woman.

Old programming dies hard, and as a woman who came of age in the 70’s and was raised with the stereotypical 50’s mentality, I can say that many of the men of my generation, for sure, had some pretty warped expectations.
While a lot of noise and talk and posturing was made about all of these sterotypes being bullshit, and inspite of the feminist movement of the time, well…I can tell you, most men were only paying lip service to be PC but, absolutely, had the 50’s expectations of what they thought the “perfect” woman should be.
Namely, fairly subservient, deferring to the tribal chief for big decisions, handle all of the domestic responsibilites AND work outside the home too, carry his slippers to him in your teeth and always be ready to bend over and suck his dick on a moments notice with the enthusiasm of a Penthouse forum fantasy. lol

I remember my ex husband once complaining that unlike how his mother behaved towards his father, I never laughed at the same old worn out jokes and stories when he told them, ad nauseum, to yet another new audience.

Really pissed him off when I said, ” If I didn’t find them funny the first time, why would I keep laugh at them now? ” Haha
Yep, when I truly realized the depth of his narcissistic chauvinism I divorced him, much to the shock of his ego. How DARE I dump the worlds greatest guy?

Easy! lol

It sounds like a relatively close description of myself, I guess that’s the kind of woman I am. :D

My dream woman is more of a 20’s classy woman. Graceful, soft spoken, strong in spirit and even stronger in mind. So sue me, but loud is not good for me. Someone who is relaxed and comfortable with themselves is incredibly attractive.

And before the history buffs start in on me.. I have no desire to revert to pre-women’s suffrage or anything like that.. it has nothing to do with women’s rights, voting, submission.. none of those things.. It’s more of a snippit from a 1920’s film than anything else.

Now is it the way that all women aught to be? Not at all. If that’s not who you are, than by all means, be who you are! If you are totally different, great! Just be yourself.

Personally, I miss the “olden days” where men paid for the meals (naturally because they were the ones working for the most part), opened the door for the woman, put a jacket on a puddle, and treated them like a queen….and the women treated men like a King. Is that so wrong?

Nowadays its just awkward. Does the woman pay? Do you split it? Is chivalry still accepted or is it insulting now? Do I have to worry that the woman could be a tranny? God knows… I’m just glad I don’t have to worry about dating anymore.. 1920’s class is not really a common trait in women these days. =)

[braces for the inevitable hate-storm]

That description could be applied to man as well. I don’t mind girls that aren’t status quo at all. But there are some criteria that has to be met, or it’s just not going to work out.

Well, an obnoxious person of either sex is less likely to be chosen, but I think the stereotype as presented is disrespectful to both women and men.

I would not date the women you described due to those characteristics. I’m not aware how much or how well this is progressing, but I do know some women are still and want to be like that, and some men want their women to be like that, which I assume would be not very progressive people.

@JilltheTooth Great answer! It’s much easier to point out what one doesn’t want I guess after all, which makes the things one does like I guess a bit stereo typical.. Never thought if that way.. Nice!

I’m a woman and I can’t think of anything more distasteful than manipulative women that use tears, sexuality, or phoney “helplessness” to to manipulate men, or anyone.

Gag!

I love being a woman, and I love dressing like a woman, but, I cannot stomach manipulative women.

I had a friend once that would go into her ” I’m so fragile” routine with men and once she refused to get out of her boyfriends car because there was a dead cat in the gutter. She was just SO distraught, pouring on the fake “I’m so sensitive, OMG..I just can’t look..”

Oh brother!

I’m not threatened by it and on the surface, at least 70% of the time, that could describe me. My partner has often said he likes that I’m “girly” in my dress and general demeanor but also I can switch gears on a dime to enjoy grungy times like camping, hiking, fishing, boating, shooting, etc.

I enjoy outward femininity, it doesn’t put me out or hold me back and it’s my default mode. The inner me is a multi-purpose, multi-faceted me.

Men and women should be partners, walking side by side, not one behind the other. True, mature love is based on mutual trust, mutual admiration, mutual affection, and effective communication. Where any of those aren’t present, there are weaknesses in the relationship. They must see each other whole, warts and all, else trust, admiration, affection, communication canot be effective. For either to, in effect, put on a facade is not only dishonest but counterproductive in the long run. Be who you are, or remake yourself into whom you want to be, then those people who like that kind of person will be attracted to you and the relationship you form will be a lasting one.

No one should aspire to be a different person just for the sake of attracting a husband or wife. You may get one, but you will not be happy. Be yourself.

While I do find many of the attributes in the OP appealing, I have got to say that I like conversation; a quiet woman would be boring.

Another thing, for example, women can’t curse. It is seen as “gross” if women curse. On the other hand, in general men can curse and it is not considered a real turn-off by MOST women. no.

You think? I’m still not sure I agree. I have a sailor mouth but men don’t seem to be repelled by it.

Again I wonder to which culture you refer, I don’t see that here (USA) much.

One of my best female friends swears like a sailor on occassion. I don’t mind at all. I like it that she doesn’t feel the need to censor her words around me.

I’m referring to most civilized cultures… I think it doesn’t matter where you are MUCH, it is the same most places. I doubt a normal guy in USA would want to be around or marry a girl who curses a lot, dresses too close or too open, unkind to CERTAIN people, isn’t always caring, rejects to cook for the man, etc…

Adiron, would you marry her?

I think your statements are way too broad, @Earthflag , and your wild generalizations are disrespectful to all. Your impressions seem to come from advertising and some popular media, I don’t see real world situations represented in your stereotype. There will always be some men who prefer what you describe, and others that are repelled by it. It’s called diversity, and it is more the norm than any stereotype.

I wouldn’t call a guy abnormal for not liking this stereotype of femininity. I know a lot of guys who are frustrated as hell with stereotypical femininity and would rather have a girl who feels comfortable enough to fart and curse around him.

Can you document what “most civilized cultures” define as a “normal guy” and a “girl who dresses..too close or too open”. What does dressing too close or open mean, anyway? In a provocative manner? If so, that is in the eye of the beholder.

In Victorian England, the flash of an ankle or a bare wrist above the glove was considered very erotic. Have you read the novels of Edith Wharton? The Age of Innocence

That’s the link tor the film. The novel

A famous Khoi beauty was the Hottentot Venus. who was considered the standard of callipygian ideal. Would today’s Hollywood PR machine agree?

Have you considered spending more time learning specifics and less time asking vague questions here?

Well. You wouldn’t. I wouldn’t. She wouldn’t. He wouldn’t. They wouldn’t. But guess what, most would. The point is in the MOST. Not what YOU think. And I do not like the stereotyped anything. But that’s what comes in the society’ mind when we say “Woman”, or “Homosexuals” or anything else. It bothers me that woman who doesn’t fit in that general description have the tiny pressure of being accepted by all. Again, this can change over time, maybe 50, 100 years, who knows. Hopefully it will.

@Earthling. I wish you a happy holiday. I hope you will learn to sharpen your debating skills.

Who knows, indeed?

I guess I just don’t understand where you’re getting your information. How do you know what “most” guys want?

Wondering where you get your “MOST” from. Do you know “MOST” men? Did you link a reputable study somewhere that I missed in this thread, beyond that very generalized Wiki thing that describes stereotypes, and not realities? It sounds very much like you made a statement and are unwilling to even consider opinions that are not in full agreement. Too bad. You could learn many more things with an open mind.

@Earthflag: So, what have you learned about the history of the Korean peninsula during the past 300 years?

Get off the computer and start getting better educated. It might make school more fun, too.

@gailcalled I don’t celebrate christmas.

@Mariah @JilltheTooth I’ve experienced. I’ve seen, heard, lived, etc. I doubt that you can tell me 90% of men would marry a woman that curses and dresses up like a man. (Just an example) But don’t you think most (again, I know, I have to say most) men would pick the “proper” stereotyped woman over one that isn’t? Since you’ve been in this world probably more than I was? So you do not agree that there is a stereotyped woman still present in the society of all? You think all is diverse, and diversity is accepted by all?

@gailcalled Why? Does it relate to this question? I don’t think so. Therefore, pm me if you are curious.

@Earthflag: OK. Let’s start with your reading skills. And your language arts skills need work also, if you want to make cogent argument. So far, your statements have been too mushy for me to deal with.

I said “Happy Holidays.” I don’t celebrate Christmas also. Consider the holiday the winter break..

@gailcalled Excuse me but who are you to judge my skills on anything? Do you know my background, my native language, or anything else? No. Also, before posting something not related to the question itself, you should think twice. I assume if you do, you will chose the smart thing and pm me instead of showing off here and acting superior.

Most does not mean 90%, most means >50%. I would be willing to bet that >50% of men in the US would not discriminate against a woman for cursing or wearing pants.

Of course there is a stereotype present but that does not mean that “most” people accept it as the way a woman should act.

If most people didn’t accept it then how come there is still a stereotype present… Let’s say more than half accepts it, but they don’t say “Well I accept it. I wouldn’t ever have a love relationship with a woman who curses often”. It is just present as they/we live…

Many said there isn’t a stereotyped feminity present today.

Okay, I’m not going to argue against it anymore. But I think there OBVIOUSLY is.

Now all is about what “most” of the population would EXPECT a woman to be like.

The foundation is from about 18th century(mainly. of course some goes way before). And it will take some time to get rid of the pieces of it.

Don’t get me wrong, I agree with you to an extent, I think there are certainly some fucked up expectations of women held by some people, I think they are treated differently and held to different standards than men, for sure. I just don’t know if it’s fair to say what most men want from women. It’s entirely possible that you’re right that >50% feel the way you’re saying, I just would want to see a study before claiming to agree.

I’m pretty damned sure I have been around a chunk longer than you, @Earthflag , and I’ll bet I know a lot more people than you do and MOST of the men I know, under the age of, say, 60 since that represents the very loose line between those that became pretty self aware during the 60s and the older ones that were raised in a more “traditional” time would not prefer the stereotype you are pushing. Like I said waaaaaay up there ^ ^ ^ “Well, an obnoxious person of either sex is less likely to be chosen, but I think the stereotype as presented is disrespectful to both women and men.” Push your agenda all you want. I give up. You may have decided this absolutely, in which case I’m not sure why you asked this question, unless it was to have every one agree with you, but I know better, I call bullshit on your statements and I’m out.

The question isn’t about is there or not. It’s about what do you think about it. Also, it’s absolutely shocking that you think the way you do. Which is interesting to look at life that way, I guess.

All of the stereotypes come from a preference for a certain personality type. I am speaking in Myers-Briggs terms here.

I am a female INTJ – a very male-minded individual. I am not saying that I think I am a man living in a woman’s body – I just think and process like a cold and logical man would. I find gossip and small talk and other human social rituals to be wasteful and tedious.

But I am female, and gloriously so. I am a very beautiful individual, and at first glance, most men believe I am the gushy talkative type. But they learn quickly, often as soon as I speak. Ha.

Anyway, I suggest you take the Myers Briggs test over at humanmetrics.com, learn your personality type, visit personalitycafe.com to see others of your type, and finally feel normal.

I know I felt so normal this summer after discovering this, and was able to become feminine in my own way. If anything, it will make it easier for you to tell close minded people to bugger off. :)

I like the description given by @digitalimpression at the beginning of his post. I would apply that to both men and women who I would like to associate with. I would like to meet women like Katherine Hepburn and men like Jimmy Stewart. Unfortunately, there are not too many like them anymore.

I disapprove of anybody cursing.

I cuss a lot, wear jeans and sneakers, wield power tools, don’t cook, etc. Three different men have proposed to me and I have never been without a date/boyfriend/husband for longer than a month. I’m gonna’ have to disagree with your entire premise.

Your question is relative to each guy’s personal preferences and dislikes. Obviously my personal preferences as a guy are likely much more different than that of many other guys I would suppose, so my answer stands. I don’t think there is any certain way to be whether you’re a man or a woman, just be yourself and appreciate who you are because if somebody else can’t appreciate your qualities you’re not missing out on anything to begin with.