Is it okay to tell your child there is no Santa Claus?

I think the child will be more hurt if you raised him on myths. I personally grew up knowing Santa Claus was fake, and I don’t think my future was hurt ;)

In my personal opinion, as long as you don’t give the child false hope, he should be fine.

I don’t think it matters much either way. I personally think santa is a sweet tradition, children love it. I didn’t have santa, because I was Jewish, but I just thought he went to the kids who celebrated Christmas.

If you tell your kids the truth, you risk them being the kid who told all the other kids.

Isn’t it the point to tell you kids there is no Santa before they get too old and figure it out? I thought the whole Santa is real thing was a prank. I get Christmas spirit, and the idea of Santa Claus, but why purposely lie to children, when you know for sure that unnecessary lie is sure to be exposed and possibly in a painful way? This indoctrination is not good for them in any way.

Tell them the real history of Christmas, it’s much more magical than a lie. Christmas spirit is a real thing and it is wondrous thing. Christmas is just fine without a real Santa Claus. So yes, it’s ok to say Santa isn’t real, he is imaginary, he is pretend. What’s wrong with pretend and imaginary? I don’t think kids need Santa to be really real to enjoy the spirit of the idea.

No. It doesn’t hurt to tell them.. you just rob them of a fun childhood. They have plenty of time for reality when they are grown up.

You need to raise your kids in accordance with your truths.

My cousin is 9 and he still believes in Santa. He goes to a fancy private school and they punish kids who say Santa isn’t real. I once got written up at MY school for saying that. I think kids can believe in Santa, but if they ask if he’s real, just tell them the truth. Let them believe it and sooner or later they’ll realize the truth.

My parents were honest about Santa Claus to my siblings and me from the start and I am very grateful that they were. I was not “robbed” of a fun childhood at all! I got to participate in Christmas pageants and that was extremely fun! I no longer consider myself a Christian, but I still have fond memories of those.

(I totally see what @everephebe is saying and I agree with him. Christmas can feel magical, even while knowing that, say, Dad is really Santa. It can even be more fun that way… no sneaking around… total understanding… no being scared the children are going to find out. Besides, I’m sure they can handle it… I mean, I have nephews who love Thomas, even though they know Thomas isn’t real… I have at least one niece who loves princesses like The Little Mermaid and Cinderella, even though she knows they do not exist.. If children’s stories can make a child feel magical inside, even while knowing the characters are not really alive and out there in the world, then why not Santa as well? Who decided that children couldn’t handle the truth about him?).

My dad’s parents never told him santa was real…he turned out just fine. xD

Seriously, though, if the lie bothers you, there is no need. They may feel a little left out during some of the festivities, but I highly doubt there would be any lasting damage.

When it comes to letting your kids believe in Santa or not I don’t think there is a right or wrong. Each to their own as far as I’m concerned. The only thing that does annoy me is when people judge parents for what they choose to tell (or not to tell as the case may be) their children when it comes to Santa. If you think it’s wrong to “lie” to your kids, fine, but don’t make another parent out to be a horrible parent because they do allow their kids to believe. I’ve seen it happen.

@everephebe So tell him that it’s based of of a religion that is completely false like all other religions and that it’s just an excuse to buy stuff for other people?

Sure, why not.

Oops. The Little Mermaid isn’t a princess. My mistake. I should have said Tiana. She does love The Little Mermaid, too, though.

@XOIIO Some would say that Christmas was stolen from the pagans so that Christians could get more converts by bribing them with their own holidays. It could be a good history lesson! ~_^

I don’t believe in telling children there is a Santa Claus. With the same breath you tell them there is a God. One is a lie and the other is truth. I was very disappointed when I found out Santa wasn’t real. It’s just a BIG lie.

I don’t think kids even wonder about santa until some kid says they received a bunch of gifts from santa to the child who never has. Otherwise he is just a cartoon on TV, or some funny dressed guy in a movie.

^ Or some friendly old man at the mall to take pictures with and get a toy from. :)

I have heard stories from people who said they were a bit traumatized on learning there was no Santa. The question then becomes whether the fun of believing in Santa is worth the pain of learning there is no Santa. Being Jewish, I can’t be of much help in deciding.

^ Yes, that is difficult. Then again, there are children (like one of my nephews) who are quite observant and know how to manipulate the situation. For example: I remember when he (my nephew I brought up earlier in this post) decided to test me out to see if I would lie to him about Santa. I didn’t tell him Santa doesn’t exist, but he went on to say something like “I know Santa isn’t real. Mommy doesn’t know I don’t believe in Santa anymore, but don’t tell her. I still want to get presents from Santa. Daddy knows I know.” I’m sure the words were somewhat different (it was a while ago), but the message was still the same.

Believing in Santa Claus, who is largely the invention of corporations and exists in order to get Americans to buy products, is not remotely necessary for a fun, imaginative, and fulfilling childhood.

Not at all. I grew up knowing santa didn’t exist. My parents told me. My neighbor told me that it wasn’t true, and that santa DID exist though. I wanted to believe her, but when I found out she was lying, I winded up disliking her for a very long time. She never admitted she lied, and she was hell bent on letting me know that santa was real and that my parents were lying…..

I prefer being told the truth. Just because you’re a kid, doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt when you find out you’ve been lied to ):

My brother one day just told me there was no Santa and I remember that day still! HA! Still! It’s one of those things I will never forget. He was laughing and saying I’m silly for believing. And I remember asking my mom if my brother is lying.. Fun.

I wouldn’t raise my (biological) children to believe in Santa in the first place.

If you lie to your child about Santa Claus, you’re not in a very good position to enforce a rule against lying about other things.

To the commenter who said telling the truth would “rob” the child of “a fun childhood”: really? Childhood is unfun unless you believe that presents come from a mythical creature rather than the loved ones who actually chose the presents? Where did you get that idea? Have you spoken with any children who realized Santa wasn’t fake, and have they told you they don’t enjoy life? I highly doubt it.

In my family Santa Claus has always been presented as a fun story that people like to pretend is real. We were told some people believed in a real Santa, and we could too, if we wanted to.

I don’t think it hurts children to know the difference between real and pretend at any age.

Oh, Merry Christmas, for fuck’s sake, many generations of children grew up not being harmed by the myth of Santa, tell them, don’t tell them, the whole idea of Santa won’t hurt them, being a bad parent will hurt them. Use some good sense. Geez. Pretending is a good thing.

@JilltheTooth : “Pretending is a GOOD thing” ? My comment wasn’t serious obviously, but I honestly don’t see why it’s a good thing. Why purposefully give them false hopes for no dire need to do so? Kids in many other cultures grow knowing that the whole Santa thing is false, and they’re normal.

Why raise the chance for disappointment if you don’t have to? Not all kids find it funny when they learn the truth.

From what I learned, kids start to lose their trust in parents (and hence the world) if they feel harmed by their parents. It’s something we are not aware of but it’s proven to happen. Why raise the chances of such things happening?

Why not make your kids happy without lying to them?

The fact that the majority do that doesn’t make it okay for people to do it.

Again, it’s just my personal opinion…

@halabihazem: This is a topic that comes up every year here. Pretending is a good thing. Every time you read a fiction book or watch a movie it is pretending. When I told my daughter she could be anything she wanted when she grew up I was giving her hope and something to aspire to and frankly, pretending because that’s not realistically true. When I read Green Eggs and Ham to my daughter as a young child, it was pretending. When I took her to Disneyland when she was 6 years old, that was a whole lot of pretending. If you want to define your world by black and white parameters, and call the myths and magic of childhood LYING, then fine, you just go ahead and do that. I don’t believe that opening a child’s eyes to imagination is a bad thing, I raised my daughter that way and you know what? She grew up fine and happy, with a good grasp on what’s real and what’s not. Feel free to PM her, she is KatawaGrey, here, and she has no problem telling someone if I am wrong. If she refutes what I say, then I will humbly apologize. In the meantime, think carefully about what magic you take away from your children, Santa or otherwise.

@halabihazem “I honestly don’t see why it’s a good thing.” Wha, wha, whaaat?

Pretending is awesome and the best part about it it’s harmless!
Without pretending children would never know if they wanted to be a teacher, a fireman, a police lady, an astronaut, etc…
Anything is possible when you pretend, anything at all.

Pretending is important, it stirs the imagination and without imagination, we are all just boring blobs of skin and fat.

I encourage you to pretend! Please. For the sake of everyone around you, pretend. Who knows, you might sleep in your dream house tonight and sleep better than you’ve ever slept before.

Are you saying that pretending is lying? I did read that you wrote something like that but I see them as two different things. Pretending at some point stops and reality takes over…

Of course it’s ok to tell your child there is no Santa. Just don’t be a dick and ruin it for the rest of us who like this tradition.

I’m 40, so I guess it’s safe to say I’ve met quite a few people in my lifetime. I’ve never met a person who was “traumatized” when they found out the truth about Santa. give me a break

Usually, here, the people who have a problem with “lying” to children about Santa either:
A) don’t have children or
B) had really horrid parents who happened to also do the Santa thing, so they tie the two together.

@JilltheTooth I’ve actually never met a person irl who had a problem with Santa. Only here at Fluther. Maybe I need to get out more? fuck that! ;)

@jonsblond ; Me either, but it seems to be a huge issue in cyberspace. Hmmmmm.

Not really, if done with care, but why would I want to tell a child that anyways? I’d just let a child believe in it and leave it at that. You’re only a kid once, and childhood dreams and fantasies should always be cherished.

I don’t think reality is a detriment to a person’s development. When my daughter asked me if Santa Claus was real, I told her the truth. When she was grown, she told me she hadn’t believed me because she knew he was real. I think the better answer to the question is, “What do you think?”
When I was a child, I was suspicious because if Santa Claus bought the gifts, then why did some of the tags say “from Uncle Joe” or “with love from Grandma.” I was disappointed when I found out the truth.

I think it depends on why a parents wants to tell. If the kids is asking the questions then I’d be truthful. Count me in as one of those who always knew there was no Santa Claus. My family explained it as more of a folklore thing that was fun to share in.

@Sunny2 That reminds me of a conversation my father had with one of my nieces (one of his granddaughters). My sister (her Mom) teaches her children that Santa isn’t real, but is still cool with having them take pictures with Santa Claus and everything. Recently, my niece and my Dad were arguing about whether or not Santa was real. My Dad said “No”. She said “Yes, Santa is real!”, despite her own mother teaching her that Santa doesn’t exist. They kept arguing about this on and on. It was cute and amusing how she was defending Santa Claus every way she could think of.

I was weaned from the idea, myself. No damage. I suspect that other kids are similarly able.

Two points:
1— When I said that you shouldn’t lie to your kids about Santa, I didn’t say that this means you must suppress their imagination and prevent them from trying to imagine things and be creative. These are 2 entirely two different things:

Letting the child imagine things and have fantasies is a MUST. The Santa thing isn’t something that the children imagine or make up on their own, but it’s something that parents tell to their children. I said it’s “lying” because the parents are intentionally planting an idea in their children that might lead to disappointment later on. Some of you don’t think it’s a big deal, but it does confuse some children, leading them to question whether they should put so much trust in parents who kept the truth from them for so long. For some children, Santa is a big deal, so shattering their dreams is sometimes harmful.

2— If you think you weren’t harmed, it doesn’t mean other children will be fine. Some will still be negatively affected, and you might have been affected to a lesser extent without noticing it.

I’m not asking you to terminate a part of your folklore, but you can avoid the possibility of harm, like what @Neizvestnaya ‘s family did for example. The children in his family had the chance to use their imagination (imagining what Santa would be like etc…), joined the fun, and they still knew it was just folklore.

Again, it’s just my personal opinion. I’m not trying to reshape your traditions.

I have no problem “pretending,” I just fail to see why people pretend this specific case, that Santa exists. The story is stupid and teaches creepy moral lessons.

I also don’t think it’s honest to say you’re “pretending.” Well obviously you, the adult, are pretending, but your gullible kid isn’t.

I think a more telling reason for the Santa thing is that it’s a widely shared American tradition and it’s important to lots of people to feel connected, and to share that connection with their kids. I don’t begrudge that desire, I just think Santa is a terrible story/character.

Oh, and I never believed in Santa, partly because I was raised Jewish but mostly because I was a skeptical little brat. But my dad tried to get us to believe in Santa because he has an absurd love for the mythos and “pretending.” But I had a lucky childhood and I love my folks, so there goes @JilltheTooth ‘s theory…

@Qingu I totally see what you mean. People make fun of people who like Twilight because Edward sneaks into Bella’s bedroom and watches her sleep, yet some old man gets to snoop on little children every day and night of the year to make sure they are good and then give them presents to reward their good behaviour? Oh, and he also gets to legally invite himself on to anyone’s property he wants to and climb down anyone’s chimney and eat any cookies and drink any milk left for him on a table somewhere in any home he chooses. It’s pretty funny, actually. Then again, I suppose Santa is like a big lovable grandfather with the best of intentions that all the children who believe in him or want to play along and act like they believe in him get to share and Edward is some creepy vampire who might turn you into one as well if he’s not careful. :)

@Leanne1986, way up there^ spoke the truth and gave a common sense answer. I can’t believe people bother to worry about stuff like this.

Enlightened parents are too funny sometimes!

@Qingu Interesting about the santa story. The whole naughty and nice; I always thought that was just part of the song. I never really took that part seriously. I just was wondering which part of the story you dislike most? For me the story of Santa was on cartoon shows/movies and sung in songs. Being Jewish, as I have said before, santa was not really present in my childhood, except in the same way Tom and Jerry cartoons were. There was only about two years where I became more aware my friends actually received santa gifts, and then I learned the tooth fairy and santa weren’t real. The tooth fairy had been real for me though.

Also, pretending may increase a child’s imagination.
But the idea of it is not appealing. But it can lead to appealing things.

No, @Qingu , you didn’t disprove my theory, you just said that your childhood was different. I don’t care if people have Santa as part of a tradition or not, and I didn’t say I did, I said that pretending is good and I gave examples. I appreciate that if you disagree with someone (you personally, I’ve seen it before) you will happily remove any context from what they said and twist it to suit your agenda, but I would hope that the others would reread carefully what I said. This whole stupid thing was played out here a couple of weeks ago, I wish I had just linked to it last night. Silly, silly me, I know better. Have at it guys, then be sure to head over to the parenting thread that followed where those of us with children were nicely set up to be slapped down. Happy New Year. Done, here.

@JLeslie, well, there’s a lot about the Santa story that I don’t like.

I don’t like its religious connotations. Santa is an infinitely powerful being who can see into your mind and tell if you’re a good or a bad little kid. He keeps a list and doles out rewards and punishments. It’s like training wheels for religion. Reality just doesn’t work like that. People are complex, everyone has flaws, there are not “naughty” and “nice” people, people who do bad things are often richly rewarded; people who do good things often get nothing.

And then there’s the idea of the rewards being gifts. I don’t have a problem with people giving gifts (I don’t personally like getting stuff, but that’s just me). But I think it’s important to keep in mind where gifts come from, how they are produced, what they cost (both their cost at the store and their costs to the environment, to society). And the Santa story completely hides this. The stuff your relatives buy is actually manufactured in the north pole by elves and distributed by magic reindeer? It papers over all of the questionable and problematic aspects of consumerism.

@JilltheTooth, I actually don’t think you’re seeing the point I’m trying to make. You’ve repeatedly said you think pretending is important—I completely agree! I’m glad my parents read fantasy books to me when I was a kid, like you mentioned.

I just don’t understand why you are arguing that pretending Santa exists is important.

I also don’t get the defensiveness. If anything the Santa-deniers should feel defensive. We’re the ones that society constantly labels as “grinches” who spoil children’s imagination and capacity for love and good will, or what have you. I really feel the whole thing is similar to how atheists get flak for pointing out that religious claims are BS—how religious people get upset at atheists for “trying to take hope away from people” or even trying to oppress Christians’ equal rights.

@Qingu I can’t speak for @JilltheTooth, but I can tell you why I can get a bit defensive when this subject comes up here at Fluther. It’s a bit hard to not get defensive when a person who doesn’t have children tells us parents that we are lying to our children and doing something harmful to our children. We have raised children and know many friends and family members who have raised children and we have witnessed no harm from giving our children this tradition. That’s all. Those of us who follow this tradition don’t tell those of you who don’t want to that you are about to do something harmful to children. (does that makes sense? forgive me, I’m super tired)

<I’m saying this in a completely calm tone and I guess I need to make this known because I’ve witnessed an odd habit here lately that tone is often misinterpreted.>

@Qingu I tend to think young children don’t understand the religious undertones and comparisons of santa to God. I don’t like it either as an adult, but as a kid, again, it was just cartoons, and I think all children, even the ones who broke rules the week leading to Christmas, received their gifts. I guess there might be a minority few parents who threaten santa won’t come, and actually carry the threat through, but I bet it is very few. It’s the same to me as adults talking to children about God, it is so abstract to a 7 year old mind, I think it means almost nothing to them. Anyway, I see your overall point, I also understand you are not being very critical of parents who partake in santa, just voicing your perspective. I also agree that @JilltheTooth has seemed extremely defensive on all the Christmas Q’s, not sure why. I agree with her on some points, I agree the fantasy of santa is fine and not very dissimilar to other childhood fantasies, but it does seem to make her angry. Why is that @JilltheTooth?

@all I think we found out on a previous Q a few weeks ago that many many jellies who do not have kids are fine with santa, I hate that generalization, I do not think the majority of people without kids are against santa. It did seem people with bad childhood memories were more likely to not approve of santa, but even that varied. Then there is a whole group ofpeople who did not have santa and grew up just fine, and would likely raise their children the same, but those who want santa for their kids find that incredibly offensive?

I really don’t see the big issue here. @Qingu was just saying his childhood was not horrible, despite what you said here, @JilltheTooth: “Usually, here, the people who have a problem with “lying” to children about Santa either:
A) don’t have children or
B) had really horrid parents who happened to also do the Santa thing, so they tie the two together.”

@Qingu was just explaining why he does not share your opinion.. and why he has a problem with lying to children about Santa… because you made assumptions about people in his situation as if you knew how they felt with authority. I really don’t think he was in the wrong. You, however, seem to be backpedalling and acting like he was putting words in your mouth when he really does not seem to have been putting words in your mouth at all.

I don’t see what’s so wrong with what he’s saying anyway – so, he likes honesty. Big deal. He seems to feel that believing in Santa is a way to control children—is that really his fault that it can come across that way? What, with parents who say things like “Be good or Santa won’t get you anything for Christmas!”? Is that really so wrong? Is it really so wrong for him to be against the idea of slaves working away at making several millions of gifts just to give to children around the world while they get nothing in return? How is his argument any different than people who are horrified at the idea of people at the bottom making products for Wal-Mart? How is that any different than caring about child slaves? How is that any different than Hermione feeling sorry for the house-elves in the Harry Potter books?

Is @Qingu really so bad if he appears to be against slavery and the idea of it… ? Is it really so wrong for him to realize how society takes advantage of people’s vulnerability in the hopes of getting them to spend their own hard-earned money out of their pockets? Is he really telling you that you can’t lie to your children about Santa… or is he just stating his opinions and explaining why he feels the way he does?

You do what you want, @JilltheTooth, but it may be best for you to leave @Qingu alone and stop bringing old arguments from a different thread in to a thread it has nothing to do with in an attempt to rip someone’s reputation to shreds just to further your own argument and your own agenda. That thread has no place in this discussion.

Yeah, I guess I should emphasize: my dad does the whole Santa song and dance, tried (and failed) to get us to believe in Santa when we were kids, still does to this day. I love my dad, he’s a great guy, I don’t think his attempts to indoctrinate me into Santa were examples of bad parenting or that they left scars or anything… I just think, as an adult, that Santa is a dumb story and has fairly pernicious undertones, and I don’t like the pressure of having to partake in the Santa make-believe as if doing so is necessary to preserve childhood innocence and imagination.

@JLeslie but those who want santa for their kids find that incredibly offensive?

We are not offended if someone doesn’t want to let their children believe in Santa. The only thing I find offensive is when people say we are harming our children by lying to them about Santa. I don’t care what you tell your children. I said in this thread that it’s fine to tell your child their is no Santa, just don’t ruin it for those of us who do. Not once have I ever heard someone say “People who don’t tell their children about Santa are mean parents!”, but any time this discussion is brought up on Fluther, we (parents) are told how terrible we are for lettting our children believe.

@jonsblond I have to agree some people have implied it is bad to “lie” to your kids, which I myself find to be a ridiculous statment regarding santa. But, not everyone who says they don’t like the santa story are judging parents who do like the fantasy of santa. I didn’t feel like @Qingu for instance was trying to convince other parents it was a bad thing, like say our fluther arguments about corporal punishment where some people literally think it is a child abuse. My perception is very very few are calling the santa story abusive, or bad parenting, and that most who say they would not do santa with their children are just saying what they would do with their own children.

It just seemed to me like the santa parents are trying to convince others santa is extremely important, and denying it to children is a horrible thing. That is why I use the word offended, because the santa people sound so defensive. I guess maybe that is how the other side sounds to you?

@jonsblond Your experiences may be different if you weren’t in that situation.

I grew up without believing in Santa Claus and I’m sick and tired of having people feeling sorry for me because of this. There is a user up there who said, and I quote, “No. It doesn’t hurt to tell them.. you just rob them of a fun childhood. They have plenty of time for reality when they are grown up.” While I like the user who said this, I don’t agree at all. Believing in Santa Claus is not necessary to have a fun childhood. It can help create one, yes, but it’s not the only thing that can.

In my experience, it seems to be parents who don’t teach their children that Santa exists who are treated like horrible parents more than the other way around. Then again, that could be just because of how I grew up. Maybe if I was on the other side, I would see things differently. It’s possible that there are biases on both sides.

I think maybe the nonparents at Fluther should all get together and write a parenting book. ;)

I’ve been flat-out lying to my kids about Santa for years now. My parents lied to me and forced me to live in a fantasy world called “childhood,” those inconsiderate assholes, where I believed all kinds of crap. I didn’t grow up for years, like until I was grown up for God’s sake. Can you believe the nerve of those lying, scheming parents I had?

So my revenge is doing the same thing to my kids. They’ve been told this big lie and are being treated like kids, the little bastards. I’m going to make sure they stay kids, like, for several years! Muahahahahaha!!!!

Only, my daughter friggin’ blew it three years ago by asking if Santa was real and then having the nerve to not be at all remotely upset or even slightly sad, the little shit.

But seriously, whatever holiday or family traditions you decide to follow in your family is up to you. There’s not really a right or wrong thing, in spite of all of the people who will tell you it’s right to do one thing and then all the people who will tell you it’s wrong to do that same exact thing. Do your own thing, and most likely if you are consistent, loving, and provide a strong family foundation for your children, they will be fine. Not perfect, not without rough spots, maybe not without big major fuck ups along the way, but probably fine. Santa will end up having very little to do with the big picture.

^ That amused me. Thanks for that.

I would like to say, though, that when I say “lying to children about Santa”, that does not mean I’m viewing parents who do this as horrible, evil people. I don’t think that’s what @Qingu is saying, either. I mean, just look at how he talks about his father. The proof is right there to me. He loves his Dad, even though he tried to do that with him… only, @Qingu didn’t fall for it.

The “lying” part is the acknowledgement that it is not true that there is a Santa who goes around climbing down people’s chimneys and dropping off presents. It is a lie to tell a child that there is.That being said, lies are not always bad or harmful, but they can be.

There are people who would rather not tell their children Santa exists because of the chance of the child being traumatized.

Of course there are several people who weren’t traumatized…

and of course it can be argued that the joy outweighs the risks…

I mean, c’mon…

There are people who are afraid to board a plane just in case it crashes, even though plane crashes are less common than car trashes.

Throughout life, it is normal for someone to want to stick with what he or she knows… what is familiar to him or her… what seems like it will cause the least amount of pain… and on and on and on…

It’s comfortable, so why not?

If it can be fun, that’s even better.

Besides, Santa really does exist…

I saw him at the mall! ;)

@JLeslie Yeah, I’m seeing the exact opposite of what you are. I don’t see any parent here trying to convince those who don’t want to let their children believe. We are just stating why we believe their is no harm in letting your child believe. I think it’s silly to say it is harmful to let a child believe in Santa when I’ve witnessed nothing but joy from it. And I’m curious why @JilltheTooth is the one who supposedly comes across as “angry” when she’s only expressing her beliefs as passionately as those who don’t care to share in the Santa experience.

@JilltheTooth comes across as angry because she linked another thread to further her argument. It makes it seem like she is holding a grudge against @Qingu that goes beyond this thread. It also makes it seem like she’s not even listening to what he is saying because she already made her mind up about him based on something he said before… somewhere else. She failed to acknowledge the times when @Qingu tried to explain to her the parts where they actually agreed, but instead spat in his face, so to speak. Not literally, of course, but yeah… To me, @Qingu seemed like the reasonable one who was trying to play peacemaker, but no matter what he said, it was no use, because he was speaking to a brick wall who was convinced she was right.

@jonsblond I guess it is just each of our perspectives. I float in the middle, of not really having santa while growing up, but thinking it is a fun tradition for kids. So, I don’t have a strong feeling either way. For me, @JilltheTooth and I got into it on a Q about saying Merry Christmas, and so I am just stringing all the interactions together. I am not trying to pick on her, obviously she will see everything I wrote here, and will have an opportunity to comment. As I said, I actually agree with a lot of what she has said on the Q’s as well, it is not black and white to me, but very grey, but it definitely seems black and white to her from where I sit; her tone (which I could be misperceiving since this is the internet) just seems more impassioned than I would expect.

Passionate.. It isn’t passion if it is always made AGAINST other people, even when knowing deep down others are right.

@MissAusten, see, your comment bugs me, not because I really disagree with your point all that much, but rather that you’re equating “Santa” with “childhood.”

There is so much more to fostering childhood creativity and imagination than the belief that a fat man in a red suit doles out presents to deserving children. What’s sad to me are the people who think a child’s imagination would actually be impoverished without this one particular, rather stupid story.

I also take exception to the idea that family traditions are somehow beyond criticism. If you don’t want to look critically at traditions, that’s your prerogative. But I think it’s important to examine and, yes, criticize traditions.

I think we underestimate children. My father did the whole Father Christmas thing. He also told me stories about pixies and fairies and the Sandman. I loved it and the lengths he went to create a magic world stick with me now. The wonder and excitement of it all. I also see it as an example of his love that he wanted Christmas to be great fun for me.

Far from being traumatised, when I was about six I told my brother quietly that I knew Father Christmas wasn’t real but advised him not to tell Daddy because he got such fun out of pretending he was.

Are all those who were raised in a family where the Father Christmas myth was perpetuated seriously traumatised or affected at all by finding out it wasn’t real? The worst I can remember happening is a child who doesn’t figure it out and is told by some ratbag at school. Sure, they might be a bit upset but in the whole scheme of things, if that’s the worst that ever happens to you, you will be doing okay. Most kids are not idiots or that thin skinned.

I think it’s fine. My parents told me that Santa was real, and I have friends who were told that Santa wasn’t real. All of us seem like fine, well adjusted folks.

@Qingu My comment was limited to Santa because this question was specifically about Santa. Your reaction is exactly why I spend less time at Fluther and should know better than to respond to these kinds of loaded questions. At no point did I even hint that a childhood without Santa is in any way impoverished. In fact, I went so far as to even make the outrageous claim that it doesn’t even matter at all in the big picture.

Why do the parents here at Fluther even bother to respond to these things if other people are going to grossly misinterpret even the most basic statement? It’s very frustrating.

Also, I didn’t realize we were talking about family traditions other than Santa. You know, because this question was about Santa. I would probably be critical of family traditions that involved something like abuse, but no matter how anyone wants to paint it, a loving, supportive, consistent family that also happens to pretend Santa is real for a few short years isn’t harming or abusing a child. And obviously, that same kind of family NOT pretending Santa is real isn’t harming or abusing a child either.

Done here, this is ridiculous.

Discussing things isn’t ridiculous. Both sides presented good points, and notice how the discussion is converging to reach common grounds. That’s the point: presenting opinions and learning more about others. This is NOT ridiculous.

The discussion isn’t ridiculous. What’s ridiculous is that my original, very clear, answer to this question ended up being treated the way answers to all parenting-related questions and answers on Fluther are treated by some of those without children. I was not saying the question was ridiculous or that the idea of discussing such topics is ridiculous. What’s frustrating and bothersome is knowing that I, as a parent, am purposely misunderstood and have my words twisted to include all kinds of meaning or intent that I never hinted at, let alone came out and said. Why can’t I give my opinion and have it discussed as that instead of being told my opinion was something else? If I meant something else, I would have typed something else.

Sorry to take it out on this question, but it’s the same frustration that leads to what people here have labeled as @JilltheTooth ‘s “passion” or anger or whatever. It happens on every question related to parenting. Parents answer, and parents are scoffed at, have their words twisted, taken to an extreme, etc. Not by everyone, but enough that I try very hard to be extremely clear in my answers but still I know that as many times as I say exactly what I think, someone will turn around and insist I meant something completely different. THAT is what’s ridiculous.

And this time I will not forget to click on “stop following.”

I’m sorry you feel that way, @MissAusten. It appears to have been a misunderstanding more than an intentional word twist. You did call it a childhood, but it also appears that you were using the words you did to humourously make a point.

@AnonymousGirl I agree with @MissAusten and contribute much less also because of this. It is the twisting of our words and putting words in our mouth we did not say, not misunderstanding. We are not the only parents here that feel this way. It gets to a point where it’s pointless to answer these questions because we are then accused of being “angry”. @MissAusten is one of the most fair, open minded and cordial users we have, so to see her not want to use this site for this reason says quite a bit. :/

Just because you’re a parent doesn’t mean you get special treatment in a discussion.

@jonsblond I don’t remember anyone accusing either of you two of being angry… and I explained why @JilltheTooth came across as angry to me. I must have missed something. To me, @MissAusten came across as frustrated, but she also seems to have attempted to stand up for herself and people in her situation with humour. You came across as someone who stood up for your side because you understood the frustration, but you in no way came across as angry. In your own ways, you both came across as people trying to help bring peace about this place. Unfortunately, @MissAusten seems to feel her efforts were wasted when they were not and left.

I don’t agree with anyone who says that a non-parent doesn’t get to have a say just because he or she is not a parent, but ‘ey, anyone is entitled to disagree with me if they’d like.

I suppose I could say that no one should be allowed to comment negatively on big families if they aren’t in one because it offends me (someone who is in one), but will that stop them if they are against families like mine? No. I am from a large family, though, and there are people who like judging parents who have several children, including my own. Heck, people even seem to think it’s acceptable to directly ask my siblings and me if my parents have ever heard of condoms. To me, that is way more offensive than someone sharing his or her opinion about Santa Claus.

I feel like these are the real things in this thread that @Qingu has an issue with:

“No. It doesn’t hurt to tell them.. you just rob them of a fun childhood. They have plenty of time for reality when they are grown up.”

“Usually, here, the people who have a problem with ‘lying’ to children about Santa either:
A) don’t have children or
B) had really horrid parents who happened to also do the Santa thing, so they tie the two together.”

Choosing to argue with him, even after him explaining parts where he agrees, about how wrong he is makes it appear like one agrees with those things because they are what he consistently seems to have an issue with.

Yes, parents who teach their children Santa Claus exists are not horrible simply because of this fact, but it’s not fair to assume negative things about people on the other side, either, which is what the people I quoted above did.

I don’t think that opinions or words get twisted. Each person responds to what they read into it, based on their own bias and their own interpretation of the words they see. Someone once told me that pretending and lying are the same thing, so their bias will be against pretending. When I say pretending is good, they will read lying is good.

^ Well said. There is a book out there with the title Words That Work: It’s Not What You Say, It’s What People Hear. I think that’s appropriate here. And I can definitely understand feeling frustrated when it feels like others are twisting words around as I’ve felt that way myself on this site, in a different thread. Maybe I was not clear enough in what I meant there. I could have used different words to prevent being misunderstood, but I will admit that I did get frustrated and unfollow that thread because I felt like almost no one was actually listening to what I was saying. Maybe they were listening, though, and I wasn’t communicating what I meant clearly enough in a way that made sense to them.

@Qingu Granted, non-parents can have opinions too. But parents have experience parenting, which counts for something. Would you want your plumbing done by a kid with some PVC pipe, or the contractor who’s been in the trade for the last twenty years?

@YARNLADY While it is true that perspective can distort meaning, some people really do want to change your perception, and will try to use – sometimes twist – words to do so.
Just Iike I did here.

This is more of a morality issue than a parenting issue.

@AnonymousGirl Same thing, isn’t it?

Not really.

For example, I think scientology is false, immoral, and creepy, and am prepared to support those claims. The fact that a parent may choose to raise his or her child as a scientologist does not really enter into this criticism of scientology.

I was thinking of making up a story (once my daughter was old enough) that my husband still thought Santa brought him toys even though Santa only worked for kids. I’d give her the task of making presents from Santa for her dad so that he wouldn’t be sad that Santa stopped coming to see him. Then she could be ‘in on it’ from an early age, but still get to believe. I also think that a Santa like this would encourage the spirit of giving rather than a “gimmee” mentality.

@Nullo No, it is not the same thing at all. Moral compasses are not unique to parents. Damn good thing, too. While it is wise to respect that people with children have the right to an opinion, their opinions aren’t the only opinions that matter. Questioning authority, in my opinion, should be encouraged…. not discouraged, just because parents said “I said so.” The parents may be right, but if they are so right, why do they feel so attacked and take something so personally when it’s just someone else’s opinion who doesn’t seem to agree with them? How would our world ever progress if no one questioned authority? Wouldn’t some of us still be slaves if nobody did? I know that is an extreme example, but still…

@AnonymousGirl I would expect that a parent would be letting his morality influence his parenting, no?

Yes. So would I. I would also expect that a non-parent would let his or her view on morality influence his or her opinions.

A person’s view on morality is like a tree that can branch out in different ways. It is the foundation and the cause of the parents and non-parents opinions. Non-parents and parents may be on separate branches, but that doesn’t mean they should chop another branch off for having a different opinion. Maybe instead, they should reach for the olive branch to understand the other side and find and feel peace as a result. That way, the tree remains whole instead of attacking others who share the tree just because they don’t feel like tolerating them at the moment.

Why burn bridges when it is unnecessary?