Some are told you can't, you never, and they did, why?

They are smarter than the ones who will believe anything they are told.

@saint But there are people who have overcome horrible childhoods, bad marriages, living in concentration camps, being oppressed and they made it! Why? Can it just be that they’re smarter? I think there’s more to it.

I have heard there are two types of people, those who hear negativity and think, I will show them; and, those who hear negativity and think, I guess I can’t do it. My husband is definitely in the I will show them category. I’m betting much of it comes from early childhood experiences. Maybe defying someone and being right in the end. Or, being encouraged to make mistakes, learn, and perservere. It says a lot for raising kids who are very obedient, it might be a disadvantage in the end.

I think also some people hear objective criticism as negative. For instance someone has an idea, another person thinks it through with them and mentions what could go wrong. It is just part of the thought process for some, but for others it is too discouraging, they become afraid, and never pursue the idea.

I don’t think IQ has much if anything to do with it.

@JLeslie What about groups of people who were oppressed? What about people who lived in abusive marriages? What about children who were taken from their homes by child services? The list could go on and on. Some made it, others didn’t. Why?

They don’t listen to the nay sayers.

People are surprisingly resilient. I see the same thing in a lot of kids, that growing up, I thought no way they’ll ever amount to anything. I’ve known quite a few people that have the numbers tattooed on their arms and they were very successful and great citizens. There’s steel in some people. It’s a matter of character.

Some people have a determined, resolute component to their nature, they are competitive if only with themselves. When one is a fully determined individual, often the flip side of that record is present also: stubbornness.

@comity I think they still along the way had moments of accomplishment or encouragement to take risks and it panned out. There might be a genetic component I think. The same way people can be more susceptible to depression, I think they can be more susceptible to positive internal thought. Goldie Gawn was talking about some studies that have been done about happiness, and there seems to be a genetic component. That same positive outlook I think applies to this to.

Those who were oppressed, the ones who survive, probably are the best at handling negativity and negative situations, and they pass on their genes, habits, and personality to their children, because they are the survivors.

I survived a terrible childhood because I had the support of an aunt who gave me positive feedback and helped me to believe in myself. I survived a divorce because I knew I had the ability to survive from my chldhood. What if anything did you survive and why?

Yeah, I survived a horrible experience at birth, that still affects me, had a very tough childhood, and so on and on. Eventually it got so bad, I was ready to kill myself, and I would have, but I found Jesus at a crucial point. I survived because I found God.

I agree with the resiliency factor.
Why does one person manage to extract themselves from poverty, dysfunction, abuse, oppression and thrive and another succumbs and remains stuck?
I do think that just as every individual has a different body type and certain physical strengths/weaknesses, that this also applies to ones mental and emotional health.

What is a moderate or even severe setback or challenge for one, is the complete undoing of another.
Some people grow and become enlightened through their struggles and others, for whatever reasons, allow themselves to remain in a state of chronic victim hood.

It’s a mystery.

Just now reading tweets from Charles M Blow, stating this:

“Never, never, never give up.” — Winston Churchill
“All my life I have been told what I couldn’t do, what I couldn’t be, and all my life I have proved them wrong I have never, ever, entertained the idea that I would fail. I have an indescribable, unshakable belief that I will alway succeed…...even thing that may look to others like me failing, I read as lessons, necessary course corrections. Success is inevitable…I have been at the place most ppl call the bottom. There is no where for me to go but up…”

not enough GA’s on this thread!! Everyone should have at least 5 :)

One of my favorite moments in cinema is the part towards the end of the movie “Crash” where the gangsta steals a van full of Cambodian slaves, then parks it in Chinatown, flings open the back of the van and says, “Go!” The people in the van slip out and… one curls up in a corner on the street, fearful. One stands wide eyed in front of a TV store. Two hold hands and look around them. Beautiful tableaux of the different ways humans face the unknown and adversity.

I consider myself a survivor. Why I was given this life and all the things I went through, I don’t know, but I know that I will not break. I came damn close, experienced a sort of emotional death, but dug myself right back out, so I know how far I can be bent and still survive. Where did I get this resiliency? I have no idea—probably equal parts steely resolve, cockeyed optimism, pure naivete and my love for hard work.

I don’t like talking about my experiences unless I have a reason to share it—usually to offer different ways of looking at things with others. I do mention a good number of things on Fluther, if only to offer it as ways for others to understand a variety of perspectives.

some folks are survivors and others are victims. It is all in your outlook and drive.

There is no moral imperative about how a life should go. We have these cultural memes about overcoming adversity in the United States, and this is a powerful myth related to our national identity. Americans overcome. That’s what we do. We do not let things stand in our way.

That’s a nice story and most Americans buy into it, but that doesn’t mean it’s the only story, and it certainly doesn’t mean it’s the best story. There is no best story. There are just stories that various groups place a lot of meaning in.

The story of being told you can’t do something, then ignoring that and doing it anyway, is a particularly American story, I think. But there is no law saying that is the good and best story. We do not have to look on being told you can’t do something, then not doing it as a story of failure.

My parents gave me the message that if I didn’t do something spectacular—saving the world spectacular—I’d be a failure. I have the skills to be a writer, I think. I have the skills to be a professional musician, I think. But I don’t do these things. Am I a failure? How does it help me to see myself as a failure? The only way it would help me is if I wanted to do more of these things, and was willing to put the work in to do it.

I have saved enough money to retire at the age of 55. I don’t want to retire. I want to save more money so I can do more things. I enjoy playing my horn. I enjoy writing my bullshit here. Do I need to make it big at these things?

Not really. What I want to make it big at is being loved. That’s what really makes me feel good. And I can be loved accomplishments or not. I don’t need to overcome huge obstacles in order to be loved, although I have done so. But there is no objective moral imperative about how to live a life and about what a person must do to be considered successful. And it really doesn’t have to matter what anyone else thinks about you. You get to decide what to think about your life.

People who like they have to prove something to someone—those are the ones who will listen to those who say they can’t, and then then prove them wrong. People who are secure in their own selves don’t really give a shit what anyone else says or things. They do what they want to do.

I think most of my life I have naturally been a person who does what he wants, except I have always had these secret fears that I’m not good enough, and I’ve tried to find evidence that people do appreciate or admire me. But when it comes down to it, I don’t care enough to do what it takes to get admiration. I just end up deciding that I think what I think, and I’m not going to change for the admiration of someone else.

@wundayatta Great point.

However, I have a different take on the “proving to others” thing. I think that the drive to prove something, if nothing else, has gotten some people out of horrible situations. For example, a kid in an abusive home who has the drive to prove to his parents he won’t be like them and gets to a better place, or someone who has been told “you can’t” who is motivated to prove that they ”CAN” and that moves them to a better place in life where they can finally relax and not have to prove anything.

There are flip sides to the “proving to others” thing—it can be motivational and positive, and/or can feed an insecurity and be negative.

What kept me going was the “I won’t be knocked down” attitude. Without that, I’d dead, literally. I finally got to a place in my life where I can let that go and use other reasonings to get through situations.

I don’t think the “overcoming adversity” thing is purely American—I see that in Beowulf, Irish folktales, in a lot of European literature, but I agree Americans took it to a meme level :)

@linguaphile Those are interesting points. It is subtle, isn’t it? I can see what you’re saying about using that refusal to be defined by others as a way to get yourself to a place you want to be in life. And, in fact, I’d say that that’s what I want to see people doing. Moving towards some place they want to be as opposed to away from some place they don’t want to be.

I think you’re right about the universality of the overcoming adversity thing.

Because oppression like that does at times make people think that there is no hope. You will realize great things once you stop listening to others and listen to your own spirit and own desires.

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It’s not just in some of us; it’s in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.
~Marianne Williamson

@blueiiznh I’ve seen this quote before- it’s perfect for this discussion. Thank you!

What I found helped me is to help others and live by the golden rule. I went into social services and was always involved helping others. That lifted me up and helped me be more then a survivor.
http://www.thegoldenrule.net/quotes.htm

@comity In American sign language, the golden rule can be translated as “The same in exchange.”

You don’t have to be a genius, mature or optimistic in order to have tenacity to survive.

Gosh! I just looked at what I wrote and I sound so obnoxious! I help others, blah, blah, blah! I make mistakes but working with others helps me too! There! That sounds better : )