Social Question

Charles's avatar

Is pedophilia a sexual orientation?

Asked by Charles (4826points) December 30th, 2011

If it is, what should be done with them? Locked up and throw away the key?

Permanently isolated? A colony in Montana for instance?

If it is not their fault, how much can they be blamed?

http://www.good.is/post/is-pedophilia-a-sexual-orientation-a-psychologist-breaks-down-what-makes-a-jerry-sandusky/

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42 Answers

Coloma's avatar

It usually has to do with mental illness, narcissism, sociopathology and sometimes sexual abuse in childhood.

Re-wiring a deviant brain is next to impossible and there is no cure for the sexually deviate other than to separate them from society.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

This is such a difficult topic for me to not have an emotional response to. With most things in life I am willing to take a moment to rationally consider all aspects and come to a conclusion based in reason, and not emotion.
I can’t do that, with this. Perhaps that is a major flaw on my part, but it’s difficult to put the emotion away when it comes to the harm or abuse of the innocent.
Logically, I can see how it could be labeled as an orientation.. but I think that is dangerous territory. I have a feeling it would only make it easier for the people who are already trying to lump homosexuality in with pedophilia. I’m not saying that I think that is valid, but I do think it would only fuel an already burning fire.
How much can they be blamed if it isn’t their fault? We still blame serial killers, even if they suffer from personality disorders that are beyond their control. I don’t know many people with a whole lot of sympathy for violent sociopaths. Some people are like a tumor on society. Pedophiles belong in that category, in my humble opinion. They should be removed from society and kept out.

Aethelflaed's avatar

Pedophilia doesn’t equal child molester. There are tons of pedophiles (people who are sexually aroused by children) who manage to have respectful boundaries of children. Just like there are tons of non-pedophile adults who somehow manage to not rape the other adults they find sexually attractive.

I don’t know what causes pedophilia. However, it does not cause them to molest anyone, and it’s the molestation that’s the problem. They can totally be blamed for choosing to act upon their desires in inappropriate ways. If they molest someone, they get thrown in jail (and I am for a rehabilitative form of jail, not a punishment form, in all cases).

Aethelflaed's avatar

@Coloma Re-wiring a deviant brain is next to impossible and there is no cure for the sexually deviate other than to separate them from society. Do you have any sources that confirm that you cannot rewire the brain, or do anything about sexual deviancy?

fundevogel's avatar

I think, if it were to be classed as an orientation you’d have to remember that orientation is not the same as action. I have certain…respect for people who have that attraction but are able to refrain from acting on it.

Also (did a little research) it seems the words pedophilia and pedophile refer to attraction. I see a language problem here because “pedophile” and “child-molester” are used interchangeably when clearly an attraction does not automatically mean abuse is taken place. Certainly people guilty of sexually abusing children will be pedophiles, but not all pedophiles sexually abuse children. Someone needs to sort our language because there is a big difference between thought and action and I don’t like the pall it casts over people strong enough to resist their dangerous urges.

@Aethelflaed I am too slow but I’m not editing.

Aethelflaed's avatar

@fundevogel No worries; great minds think alike. Also, don’t edit; the system’s too slow right now and it’s a pain in the @$$.

Coloma's avatar

@Aethelflaed

Not off hand, but, I have have, in my pursuit of psychological theory over the years, been led to believe it is next to impossible. It is very difficult to reprogram ones brain and the neuropathways that feed the pleasure centers. Sexual arousal is extremely complex as the article shared mentioned.
This is true for many habitual behaviors, alcohol, drugs, sexual preference and changing ones sexual orientation is even bleaker than overcoming addictive behaviors from what I have gathered.

The relapse rate for many things is quite high, and sexual preference is one area that is extremely resistant to reprogramming.

Mariah's avatar

Someone can go on a murdering rampage due to mental illness and that might not be their fault, but we still have to protect innocent people from being harmed by them. If that means locking them up, I am okay with it.

Coloma's avatar

@Aethelflaed

Not off hand, but, I have have, in my pursuit of psychological theory over the years, been led to believe it is next to impossible. It is very difficult to reprogram ones brain and the neuropathways that feed the pleasure centers. Sexual arousal is extremely complex as the article shared mentioned.
This is true for many habitual behaviors, alcohol, drugs, sexual preference and changing ones sexual orientation is even bleaker than overcoming addictive behaviors from what I have gathered.

The relapse rate for many things is quite high, and sexual preference is one area that is extremely resistant to reprogramming.

Behavior modification is not enough to protect innocents from pedophile or other sexually predatory tendencies.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@Aethelflaed do you think that is true? That molestation is the only problem with pedophilia? I know that as a wife, if I were to find that my husband had a stash of child pornography… but had never touched a child inappropriately, I would be quite devastated.
I’m not saying that having a desire is the same as acting upon said desires, and I do recognize the difference. I am also grateful that there are people who have these desires and refrain from acting out, though I am inclined to suspect that many of those who do not abuse children will still contribute to the market for child pornography. Who is to say when the levee will break? If it doesn’t – wonderful, but there is no way to know that it won’t.

As a parent, I have to look at it this way: even if someone never lays a hand on a child, I can’t imagine my reaction being anything less than rage if I were to find out that someone were sexually fantasizing about my children.

I have admitted in the past, here and elsewhere, that perhaps this subject is too familiar for me to remove myself from the emotional aspects, but I don’t think that invalidates my opinions. This is something that I refuse to tolerate, that I refuse to find acceptance for in my heart… and I truly hope that society never does.

Aethelflaed's avatar

@Coloma See, many of my studies in psychology are on the neuroplasticity of the brain, and how you can change your mind; it’s why I’m such a fan of therapies like neurofeedback, EMDR, CBT, DBT, etc.

Coloma's avatar

@Aethelflaed

It’s certainly worthwhile to pursuit, and, sometimes people do experience spontaneous change, healing, but, I wouldn’t turn a sexual predator loose after a few sessions.

It’s all fascinating stuff, I agree. :-)

Mariah's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf I know you weren’t asking me, but imo viewing child pornography is absolutely wrong, because you’re supporting somebody who exploited a child in order to create the pornography. However, a pedophile who doesn’t act on his impulses in any way that could harm a child? Maybe he only fantasizes, and does what he can to get help? I think that’s to be commended, actually. See here for an example.

Aethelflaed's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf Sort of. It’s more like, it’s the problem for me when it comes to formulating a public response to it. Privately, it’s a slightly different story, but… I guess because so many people on an absolute level that things that I am into (members of the same sex, kink, etc) are absolutely wrong, depraved, and even comparable to pedophilia, I’m really hesitant to say that it’s my place to put a widespread condemnation and/or punishment on pedophiles who don’t hurt anyone with their desires. If they like kids, but then they handle it by writing some fiction (in which no actual children are harmed), or by drawing some child porn sketches (again, where no actual children are harmed), and then masturbating to that, I feel like I can be totally not ok with that in my own space and let them have the space to disagree in a non-harmful manner.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@Mariah and @Aethelflaed again, I don’t think that it is the same to view pornography or to abuse a child as it is to fantasize. I just know that if I am completely honest (and I would venture a guess that most parents would feel the same), that even finding out that someone was sexually fantasizing about my child without having ever physically touched or gestured or spoken to them, would be enough to bring out an anger in me that I have only ever experienced when I think something/someone is threatening my children. But, again, I admit that is not the most rational response. That is my instinctive response. I have zero tolerance.

@Aethelflaed I think that comparing orientations(?) like pedophilia or bestiality, where the primary fantasy revolves around a living being without the ability to consent… to sexual kinks or same sex attraction to other (consenting) adults is dangerous territory. It is my opinion that they are in two completely different veins.

Mariah's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf Oh sure, I do feel the same. I wouldn’t want that person to be a part of my or my (hypothetical) child’s life. And it’s kind of a conundrom, because I don’t think it would be right to punish somebody for their thoughts if they don’t take action, especially because it does seem that it’s not their “fault” who they’re attracted to, but at the same time, to wait until they do take action isn’t good either because that means a child has been harmed. I don’t know if there is a right answer to this. It’s very difficult.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@Mariah I think I would feel the same as you do, if I had the ability to approach this from a strictly rational viewpoint. I think that emotional edge is what pushes me to where I stand, now. I think it is a difficult issue, as you said.

Aethelflaed's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf I don’t think they are the same thing, but rather, that I am unsure of why I get to dictate what someone likes and doesn’t like when no harmful action is taken on behalf of that like. It’s not that I think that being gay and being a pedophile are objectively the same thing, but rather that I don’t want my actions to match up with those of anti-gay campaigners but with a different target group; I’d rather follow the golden rule. Tolerance isn’t something you do when the issue at hand is something you don’t object to, it’s something you do when the issue at hand is something you do object to.

downtide's avatar

Pedophilia is a fetish, it can run alongside sexual orientation (ie preference for girls or boys).

Coloma's avatar

I agree with not being comfortable even KNOWING someone was fantasizing about my child, or any child. Thoughts are not acts, but, ya know what…it’s like claiming your pet Tiger would never attack someone.

Bullshit!

The nature of the beast is the nature of the beast and I, for one, would not be willing to risk a childs safety if somebody said ” Oh yeah, I love to think about being sexual with children, but, I’d NEVER act on it! ” Sorry, that may be, but you can take your high risk ass out of my territory.

bkcunningham's avatar

Is the premise of the question asking if pedophilia is just a sexual orientation that should be accepted by society? That it is something biological that should just be accepted?

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@Aethelflaed yes, you’re right about tolerance, I agree wholeheartedly. It is simply that I am not tolerant of this, nor do I wish to be. I think @Coloma nailed it, for me, with the pet tiger comparison. It just isn’t a risk that I’m comfortable with. I see what you’re saying about not wanting to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but I feel like this is just one of those things that I cannot see the value in being tolerant of.
I’m not saying that everyone should feel as I do, but, I don’t see myself bending, despite trying to be a tolerant and accepting person as much and as often as possible.

bkcunningham's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf, do you mean being tolerant of a pedophile’s sexual orientation?

Aethelflaed's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf Yeah, I just think there’s levels of tolerance. Like, I don’t want someone I’m dating to be a pedophile, I’m just never going to be comfortable with that. And I’d rather not live in the same neighborhood as one – but, I also don’t get to choose my neighbors, or know almost any of them, and the likelihood that at least one of them is a felon or a rapist or something else less than desirable is pretty much 100% (and, there’s really no way for me to know that I’m not living around a pedophile, no matter what). But I can also say that it’s wrong to just ship them off to a small colony in Montana, that I can want my home to be pedophile-free without needing the entire city, state, or nation to be pedophile-free.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@bkcunningham yes. I have no more tolerance for pedophilia as a sexual orientation than I do for child abusers. I can sweep them all into the same category, mentally, and be at peace with myself.

Coloma's avatar

Yes, it’s one thing to have compassion for people with severe issues, but, it’s entirely another to invite them into your life and family or neighborhood.
I am truly sorry for peoples fucked up-ness, be it severe addictions, sexual issues, abuse issues, whatever, BUT… having empathy for wounded souls and minds doesn’t mean I am going to test their resolve.

Just as I’m not going to bait a mountain lion by sitting naked in the forest all night bleating like a wounded goat. lol

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@Aethelflaed I mean, I suppose if that is tolerance.. I can see what you’re saying. I have no idea what I think should be ‘done’ with pedophiles, especially those who either do not act on their urges, or are never caught. Realistically, there isn’t anything that we can do. I doubt the vast majority are chomping at the bit to tell their secret, so unless some type of foolproof screening is created, it’s all hypothetical, anyhow.
Again, I have to agree with @Coloma. I think it sucks that sometimes the human brain has a serious malfunction that causes people to think or behave in a way that is not conducive to functioning as a healthy member of society. But, if that brain blip puts you in a category of people more likely to cause harm than those without, I’m going to put my guard up. I see a huge difference between bigotry against people who make life choices that do not affect others, that are inherently harmless, that involve choices shared between consensual people… and caution and distrust for the people who walk a fine, blurry line between potentially unpleasant and truly dangerous.

bkcunningham's avatar

May I ask a question? How do we know about pedophiles who don’t act on their urges or are never caught molesting children? I mean, realistically, how does anyone discuss that in the sense of how does it affect me or society? Are there surveys where people openly and publically, not secretly, admitted to having these urges but not acting on them?

Aethelflaed's avatar

@bkcunningham Yes. People will admit to it under certain circumstance, like staying anonymous and not being judged. And some pedophiles will seek out treatment, will look for ways to get their needs met without hurting anyone.

bkcunningham's avatar

People will admit it to whom, @Aethelflaed? People who have done studies you could provide or family members? I’m just trying to follow you here to be honest and understand.

Aethelflaed's avatar

@bkcunningham If you read the article linked to in the original question, it’s an interview with a psychologist who studies pedophilia, and works with pedophiles. Others will tell it to family members, or trusted friends. The internet is a big place for pedophiles to be open(ish) about their pedophilia, both in spaces created just for them and in regular spaces that have regular internet anonymity. IIRC, a few years ago on Fluther, there was a member who said he was attracted to younger kids, and talked about it with other jellies.

Blueroses's avatar

If extensive porn surfing internet research is anything to go by, I’d say there are plenty of people attracted to the idea of children as sexual objects but many turn that fantasy to age-play with other consenting adults.

please reconsider the location of the colony. Montana already has plenty of compounds for deviants and we’re not currently accepting applications for new ones.

bkcunningham's avatar

@Blueroses, let’s just say what we mean and not beat around the bush. Agreed?

Coloma's avatar

I live about 8 miles from a halfway house for drug abusers etc. in my rural community.
I am tucked away back in the hills and there have been no issues with crime in this area, however, the main drag of the town and our state park have had quite a bit of petty theft and issues from those residents that are given some freedoms from their rehab.
Their residence is on a large property within a half mile of the main hub of my small town.
My point is….that the probability of questionable thoughts trickling into reality is strong.

Put a halfway house in a community and the odds are good that there WILL be some incidence of crime, etc.
Put children in easy reach of pedophiles and sooner or later it’s a heavy bet that a situation will occur.
Equate it something with you struggle with.
If there is ice cream in the house, I WILL eat it!

Maybe not tonight, maybe not tomorrow, but, I WILL cave and eat the ice cream sooner or later. lol
It simply doesn’t even matter WHY someones sexual orientation is the way it is.
It may facilitate understanding on an intellectual level, but, understanding doesn’t mean you should ever take chances with children.

bkcunningham's avatar

A halfway house for drug abusers is different from halfway house for people whose want to have sex with children, @Coloma. That is what I believe. Am I wrong?

Coloma's avatar

@bkcunningham
No. I’m just saying that the odds of being able to EXPECT problems in a community reflect on what you allow in to it. Put a halfway house or pedophile in a neighborhood and you’re tempting fate.

Luiveton's avatar

Meh. It’s creepy both ways.

bkcunningham's avatar

It depends upon the people in the halfway house, @Coloma. To me, logically, sexual abusers and people with addiction problems are two different animals, so to speak. Imagine, if you will, people with both tendencies. Oh, my. Lions and Tigers anad Bears. Oh, no.

But for me, to discuss the issue, I have to stay on track and discuss the issue. Not bring up imaginary scenerios. I could do that with you all day. That is futile. People who want to have sex with children is different than people who have addiction problems. Period. Love ya’ though. Happy New Year.

augustlan's avatar

I would say, logically, it is a sexual orientation, and that the person with such an orientation can’t be blamed for being attracted to what they’re attracted to. However, they certainly can be blamed for their actions. Personally, as a victim of a child molester myself, I’ve always viewed it this way, and that has only made me more certain that a child molester can’t be ‘fixed’. As such, if a pedophile acts on his attraction, I do feel they should be permanently removed from society. Life in an institution of some kind is fine with me, they need not be put to death or tortured for life.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Fact from fiction, truth from diction. At least it was a middle of the road article, and not the usual propaganda. Part of society not knowing what pedophilia is truly, their thoughts on it are shaped by media hype and sensation. When it comes to sex crimes it is like a triangle with the masses being the Johns, the Government being the whores, and the media being the pimps. If the media senses a particular fear or loathing from society they seek to provide more and more on the evening news. The more of it they show, the more the masses get fascinated and enraged. Seeing that it is an issue with the masses the politicians want to glom onto the repulsiveness, and seek to enact laws and such to deal with it, give the masses what they want, to prostitute themselves for the vote, even on things they know will never work.

The ironic thing is, the media wants to get everyone to hate those convicted of a sex crime, especially molestation with people unilaterally attribute to pedophiles. A sex crime in a secular sense is only a sex crime because it is sex the masses don’t want others doing. Mechanically there is nothing different than a person having sex with a sibling, someone under puberty (providing they are physically large enough and sentient enough to be involved even if they don’t understand all that they are doing), a person having sex with more than one person at a time, or the opposite sex. The only thing that separates those from a secular sense is that the masses simply choose to say ‘A’, and ‘B’ are OK, but ‘C’, ‘D’, and ‘E’ or not. Sex crime is a crime against who? What would be s ex crime in Colorado would be different in Guam, the Cook Islands, Hanoi, Beijing, Kabul, etc. A lot of sex crimes mirror itself across nations but it is still the choice of the masses, nothing less.

Force or coercion being another matter, in actuality, anyone can be molested, and molestation doesn’t always mean sexual contact.

People say they feel threatened because a person with a sex crime is in the neighborhood, or is being treated for pedophilia but never acted on it, ”The tiger in the back yard” so to speak. Are you feel much safer not knowing the neighbor down the block whom you know off for years is a lush and a drunk? There is nothing telling you they are hiding their alcoholism. There is no decal on their windshield, nothing to indicate on their vehicle license plate, or on the Web. You might not find out until your child is dropping baskets with a friend with his/her curbside hoop they got for Christmas and he/she plows through them in a drunken haze. Would you still feel your child were safer then? A pedophile may endanger your children if they act on it, but you and your SO are fairly safe. However, that drunk won’t limit the carnage to just your children, but to you and your whole family; but most can accept them better because they are less dangerous, right?

About 20 some years ago I knew a pedophile, he knew he was a pedophile, and he was up front if any should ask, because he didn’t want to waste time with people who could not handle that fact. He did time because of it, but afterward fought hard daily to control the urge, or feelings to have contact with children that way. He pretty much avoided children himself, not because the law, a pitchfork welding mob, etc made him. Did he eventually lose that battle to stay “clean”? I don’t know, we went our own ways to live our own lives and never stayed in contact, (but not because of his crime). I would be wearier of the drunk in the neighborhood I don’t know then a person convicted for a sex crime I do know.

If we are to think of locking them up, or banishment, just in case, a la “Minority Report”: http://youtu.be/gn2sLUJ-eLk, who do you stop, whom do you stop with?

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

This is what I am not okay with.

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