What would you say to someone who despises all forms of education because they are "boring"?

“Ur doin it wrong”

Is there a reason you feel you must respond to these statements? Is it not enough that you disagree and see the value in education for you? Generally, people that say stuff like that are self-conscious, didn’t get much education themselves or feel they can’t succeed, academically. It’s quite obvious they’re in denial.

I’m curious too, one of my stepsons fits your example.

You can’t inculcate a love of learning in someone who is totally opposed. You could ask him if there is anything he wants to learn to do (play an instrument; learn to make something), and point out that learning to do it would be education.

But I don’t think you can change him.

Serious answer: most people conflate education with schooling and academia. Those can be boring, particularly when you’re not familiar with some jargon or another and miss some requisite knowledge (which tends to bring out either defensiveness or insecurity in some people, sometimes both, because they see it as a personal failing rather than something that can be learned but just hasn’t, yet). Schooling, in my opinion, is often a terrible way to educate, focusing more on adherence to rules and order than broadening minds and acquiring skills. There are exceptions, of course.

Anyway, the main goal I’d aim for is getting this person to see that education isn’t just the sort one can get at a school.

If they’re happy where they are, who are you to interfere? I would insist they be self-supporting, and not dependent on me, but otherwise, to each his own.

@incendiary_dan I liked your first answer.

People want to learn things if they think there’s something in it for them. If he doesn’t think there’s anything in it, there’s nothing to do.

If I were going to try, I would ask the person what their goals were. Where do they want to be in the future? In the same job? In some other job? What other job? What skills would they need to do that job? What knowledge? How can they get that knowledge or those skills? Are they interested? If not, then there’s nothing for it.

You can also tell them then need to learn thus and such in order to keep the job. If that doesn’t motivate them, fire their ass!

@Simone_De_Beauvoir and @YARNLADY As mysteriously mentioned above, it is part of my job to change this persons mind. So yes, my initial reaction sort of mirrors yours, but it doesn’t help me any.

@digitalimpression It’s part of my job, as a professor, to change people’s minds on this matter as well. I deal with it by speaking to them in private and really getting to the actual reasons they dislike education.

@digitalimpression Oh, sorry, I didn’t read carefully enough. In that case, I agree with @wundayatta I would ask the person what their goals were. Where do they want to be in the future? In the same job? In some other job? What other job? What skills would they need to do that job? What knowledge? How can they get that knowledge or those skills?

Is there a way you can take him out of the environment you currently operate in? I’m thinking some sort of “experience” that brings him out of himself and makes him see the value of acquiring new skills… I’m thinking some sort of nature adventure survival weekend thing?... I would do it on the premise of something other than “learning”, even if that premise has to be something as bland as “team-building”, then help him to see, at the end, that actually what he’s done is learn something and hey, it wasn’t boring.

I would say “How would you know, have you tried all the forms of education?” and then I would point out to them all the education they get when they learn stuff like “how many drinks before I think it’s ok to pee on someone else’s bed” and “if you pull that cat’s tail, they will probably try to bite you” and then the subsequent “which cleaning method best prevents a cat bite from getting infected”. And then I’d acknowledge how much rests on the teacher (and on how much the teacher is allowed to do their thing) in terms of things being interesting, especially at the high school level.

His mind is made up. I wouldn’t waste the time trying to ‘convince’ him or ‘convert’ him. It will fail and you will be frustrated.

Write it up as a lost cause. You’re not going to change him. There is literally nothing you can say, short of firing him. And if he is doing his job, then you have no reason to do that.

I sure wouldn’t promote him.

I have very little time for people like that so I tend to avoid saying anything. If they’re happy with their lot then that’s their problem. I don’t know how you can make them think differently unless you can find a way of teaching them without them realising that they are learning something useful. Hopefully it is just immaturity and they will grow out of it.

I’d agree with the guy.

I have little choice but to change his mind and “just fire him” is not an option. I understand that it would be easiest to just give up, wait till he matures, call him an imbecile behind his back and move on but that’s just not me. I refuse to “write it up as a lost cause”.

That said, some of you have given me some good ideas so thanks for that :).

If I worked with you and you called me a “subordinate” and attempted to question my education, my interest in education and/or improving myself; you’d most likely get a shrug and, “Yeah, education is boring and I’m happy where I am in life. I don’t need your suggestions for improving myself.” Have you ever thought perhaps it is your attitude or approach?

Say this to him…
“Hey, there’s this great new thing called the internet. It has roughly all of the information in the world, plus all the music, movies and entertainment you could ever imagine. Oh, did I mention there’s porn? Yeah, tons of it. So, would you like to learn how to use it? Oh, I’m sorry, that’s right, you don’t want to learn things”.

if that doesn’t work try this…

“Run! Zombies are taking over the city! You can survive, but you need to know how to evade and kill them. Oh, I’m sorry, that’s right, you don’t want to learn things”.

@bkcunningham I don’t call him a subordinate. I use that word to describe him to you. I also do not question his education. I’m simply interested in helping him advance in his career. You’ve worked a miracle spinning that into a negative thing somehow.

It just struck me as sort of snotty. Sorry.

@bkcunningham No worries. This whole “read text instead of talking to people in person” thing has been causing problems since the invention of the world. =)

It’s hard to read body language and inflection when there is none to be observed.

Sounds like a fear of success to me. Clearly this persons sour grapes attitude about education goes far beyond just finding it boring. I agree, to each his own, but anytime someone is that resistant there is some deep fear of failure or inadequacy happening IMO.

“Boring” most likely translates to ” I’m too lazy and scared to even try.”

The issue is more likely their own lack of motivation and that’s not something that is going to get fixed in a classroom.

@Coloma Lucky for me I’m not confined to a classroom. =)

Some people have a low threshold for patience. Some people have a fear of failure relating to something they feel uncomfortable with. My brother was like the person you’ve described, and he would always ask me why I read so much. The two reasons I’ve mentioned were his problems. I even tried to help him get his GED, to no avail.

A person who is satisfied with who he is and feels no need for anything else is a lucky guy. I envy him and pity your need to impose yourself on others.

@tinyfaery Thank you?

I have to ask: why is it important to advance this guy? If he’s happy where he is and doing an ok job…

My experience is that people who are anti-education usually have some experience that caused them to feel like a failure and they didn’t get help for it.

And as @incendiary_dan has said: he probably conflates education with schoolwork.

In this case, would education mean school and academia?

@tranquilsea Well, if many of the other people in this thread can be believed it is surely because I’m “imposing myself on him”, “wasting my time”, or “questioning his education”. Thank God there are least 6 people I can trust to provide an intelligent answer here on the fluthers… were it not for them it would be like speaking with Cleverbot minus the “Clever” and I would be forced to move back to answerbag.

I’ve said several times that it is my job to get him educated. He cannot be promoted without it. He will lose his job without it in the future. He is happy where he is and not doing a good job because of the fact that he is happy where he is. Does that make sense?

Now, I have two options.

Option 1: Give up on this guy, let him fail miserably, and be truly apathetic to the outcome of his career and his life.

Option 2: I can find a way to connect with him and show him the benefits of education and self improvement in the interest of his career.

So far I’ve had quite a lot of votes for Option 1 which is proof that not all human life on earth is, in fact, sentient…. OR said human life is simply of a lesser quality than I’d previously believed.

@Aethelflaed Yes. It is necessary for it be the kind of education and self improvement that can be documented and counted toward his promotion.

Nothing… I’m not interesting in becoming a controller.

Incidentally, even cleverbot opted for option 2.. sort of.

User: What would you say to someone who despises all forms of education because they are ‘boring’?

Cleverbot: I would try to help others find meaning.

@digitalimpression I would be quite clear with him that his options are limited without the additional education and let him know that your job is to make the process as easy and elucidating as possible.

But it is ultimately his choice.

My hubby had a scenario recently where all his staff needed to get their mutual funds licenses. One staff member took the exam 7 times and failed. He went on stress leave because of it. They are thinking of moving him to department where he won’t have that requirement.

@digitalimpression So have you told him that if he doesn’t get this education, you have to fire him? I kept getting the impression that you wanted to promote him, but he was fine with where he was – which is different from, will lose the job he already has; maybe he’s not clear on the same thing?

If it was worth it to me as an employer, I’d pay him to take a course or whatever it is that I wanted him to do. Or maybe I’d send him to the class on employer time, which I guess is the same as paying him. I would not, however, find it reasonable to expect him to get further education on his own time or on his own dollar. Maybe if it was something he wanted to do, but not if it’s something I want him to do. For that, I’ve got to pay him.

If he refuses to go to training I provide on my time, then that is a serious problem. Then I’d send him to employee assistance to find out why he isn’t doing anything to achieve his performance objectives. Performance development is bullshit—at least for highly trained employees, but it can still be used as a stick. Where I work, we all have to take performance development courses every year.

@wundayatta I suppose in your scenario I am “employee assistance”. The courses he could take are both free and available during work hours so he has no excuse except that he is either lazy or just hates education too much.

@Aethelflaed I would like to see every employee be promoted and excel in their career. Deciding whether or not he should be fired is not part of my job, but I do make recommendations. Before recommending that he be fired it is part of my job to ensure that “companyname” has exhausted all options toward his progression (being as they have already invested quite a lot of time, money, and energy into getting him thus far. So, eventually, if he does not respond to my efforts, he will be terminated (not by Arnold).

@digitalimpression I would make that, what you said right there, extra-clear to him. Just out of curiosity, what kind of work is this where everyone has to climb up the ladder, and people can’t stay where they are?

@Aethelflaed I’m wondering the same thing.

Let’s just say it is a job where being mediocre is frowned upon.

@digitalimpression then it sounds like this is a job mismatch for him. Perhaps you should ask him what he enjoys about his job.

@digitalimpression Ok. I’m still not quite understanding, because I always think that a promotion means having to start over a bit instead of getting even better at what you already do, so it doesn’t necessarily follow that this guy would be mediocre by not moving up. But I think, if this many people were confused by the question, and by what you meant by education, and by why you need this guy to get some education, then maybe he’s just as confused as to what’s going on, and you need to really look at if you’re communicating your side effectively.

Plus I’m thinking that it would be hard to can a guy because he didn’t want to take additional courses…well unless your company want to package him out.

@Aethelflaed He is fully aware of the consequences and potential rewards of promotion or termination. He does, after all, work here.

I’m not sure why there is confusion in this thread. It seems like a straightforward question to me. A lot of people, it seems, want to add their slant on the background of the situation without taking the question at face value and just answering the question.

@tranquilsea It isn’t hard at all. It will happen if I don’t find a way to help him out. The problem is, too, that I’ve been doing this for quite a while. I know that if I don’t help him and he gives up on himself and his career, he’s going to lose this job and become a pot-smoking, gas pump attendant or something.. I don’t want to see that happen. Of course, if it does and I’ve done all I can to help him out then I won’t feel so bad.

@digitalimpression It seems clear to you, because you’re the one with all this knowledge, with all the info. Doesn’t mean you’ve communicated that clearly. And if the guy is saying he’s fine with where he is, that seems to suggest that he thinks where he’s at is a permanent position if he wants it to be, which you say it definitely isn’t.

Is there another company that does the same kind of work that you can steer him towards, where it’s not your company on the line, but he doesn’t have to end his career?

I agree that saying, “Your fired” can be easy to say but that doesn’t mean that he may not have a reason for suing your company for wrongful dismal unless it is written in his employment contract that he must take “x” amount of courses/upgrading per year.

If that is written there and you’ve provided him with abundant help then you have the right to fire away.

I think it’s a crappy way to treat an employee who is otherwise doing his job though.

Forget it. I was really looking for possible solutions, possible ideas and maybe even someone’s personal experience with this type of scenario.. instead I’ve been insulted, my “company” admonished ignorantly, and a lot of useless rubbish has been thrown around without really getting us anywhere.

Thank you to those in the first part of the question that actually answered the question. I really do appreciate it.

@digitalimpression I am trying to help but you keep telling me my answers suck. Whatever.

I have always found formal education to be boring also but I like money and I wanted to make lots of it. So I followed society’s dictates and acquired the necessary letters behind my name. In retrospect the educational process has given me many benefits I didn’t realize at the time. And really if I were honest not all of it was boring, but a lot of it was.

I have found life’s experiences to be much more enlightening and entertaining as well. I always tell kids the best bet in this world is to get the formal education but to learn a trade as well. There are a lot of unemployed folks with a bachelors degree in philosophy but not many unemployed car mechanics, plumbers or dog groomers!

“See ya.”

Welcome to fluther. Now go home.