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JilltheTooth's avatar

Why do people feel the need to piss on a question...revisited?

Asked by JilltheTooth (19792points) January 9th, 2012

This was asked almost a year ago, there may have been similar ones asked in the meantime that I couldn’t find, if so, sorry. In the last few days, two Qs in particular come to mind as examples. One was a light hearted Q that referenced astrology, and the other was a Q from a person of faith asking about a very specific point dealing with that faith.
Nowhere, in either question does the asker state that they want to debate the validity of their premise, but in both Qs the entire response field is filled with off topic posts refuting the belief in God, or saying astrology is bunk.
My basic question here is WHY? Do you think that the asker will stop believing because you say so? This is indeed a bit of a rant, but I honestly, honestly don’t get the point. Please enlighten me if you truly believe that you, as a stranger on the internet, can change someone’s mind by not answering their Q? Why not simply stay away from that Q?

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75 Answers

JLeslie's avatar

Could be a few things.

The person thinks they are educating the OP.

The person is a party pooper.

The person doesn’t think it is a serious question.

The person thinks they are giving additional useful information.

thorninmud's avatar

I don’t think the asker of the question is necessarily the target audience of comments like this. In an environment like Fluther, there is some social capital to be gained by flashing one’s credentials as an enlightened skeptic. I read this as a shout out to the other members of the Fluther Rationalist Club, a way of establishing one’s cred as a warrior for the cause.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

I dunno, but I’m pretty sure I’m guilty of doing it before. :(

<squats and pees>

YARNLADY's avatar

One of the main characteristics that sets Fluther off from other Q & A sites is the social forum type answers, as opposed to straight by the book type answers.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

@YARNLADY Well yes, but I think she’s talking about when people post comments like, “You won’t like what I have to say so I’m not going to answer this question.” WTF? Then why the hell did you bother typing that out if you’re “not going to answer” it? Just ignore the question if you’re “not going to answer” it!

JilltheTooth's avatar

@WillWorkForChocolate has the point exactly. There are many many many Qs that are designed to provoke discussion of just such issues, why bring them up in a Q that that is very specific and does not even remotely invite that discussion? It’s rather like walking into someone’s home and saying “Wow, that wallpaper is really ugly” when you’ve been asked “Would you like some coffee?”. I really do wonder if these persons think that a rude remark will change the mind or the belief system of the questioner, and if they really think that, then, damn that’s really stupid.
The smart-ass quips annoy me sometimes (except, of course, when they’re mine, then they’re amusing and clever ~) but the “let me tell you that you’re fundamentally a dope for asking this” remarks are, to my eyes, just rude and pointless, which is why I asked this.
@JLeslie : I don’t buy any of those except #3.

Judi's avatar

I saw the astrology question, and because I don’t believe in it, I just chose not to answer. I don’t like “rude”, whether it’s an evangelist preaching hell fire and damnation with a bull horn or an evangelical atheist calling a Christian stupid.
People are where they are on their life path. It is not my business to shove them one way or another.

Dog's avatar

@thorninmud‘s response is how I see it too. I just think it is a high-five for the cause and an attempt to get lurve.

JLeslie's avatar

Up to 4 GA’s, just sayin’ ~

Facade's avatar

Because not everyone has as much sense as @Judi Love that lady

Kardamom's avatar

In some cases, the Q itself presents a false premise, or a premise that has been largely debunked by the scientific community, or is potentially something that is just not valid. That’s why the Q gets questioned.

It might seem “rude” to say that something like Astrology is not real, but let’s say the Q was something more like this: “President Obama’s pink unicorn lives in the Lincoln bedroom, do you think that’s OK?” There are plenty of us, who would point out to the OP that there are no such things as pink unicorns, or ask the OP where he/she got her info that this mythical creature is living in the Lincoln bedroom.

I don’t think anyone would think those answers were “rude” because it seems so obvious that the Q is flawed, whereas Q’s about religion, even if they are flawed, tend to make the believers very angry, even though there’s no more proof about that than there is about pink unicorns.

Back in ancient times, people believed in what we now call mythology, but to them it was their true belief, their religion, but if anyone dares to say that Christianity or any other current religion, including Astrology, might just be a myth too, people get angry.

Also, Q’s and A’s are usually not black and white, especially on a discussion/forum site like this one. Some Q’s don’t have one true answer, and some Q’s automatically make us want/need to ask more questions about the original Q, because it might not make sense “as is.”

JilltheTooth's avatar

@Kardamom : Oh, good God yes, I did that on purpose what a bizarre and silly analogy. The point of my Q here, is why not simply pass it by? When someone asks a light hearted astrology Q, that’s very different from someone saying “My astrological advisor told me to put all my money into a home for wayward aardvarks that he manages, should I give him cash or write a check?” Judgment call. To assume off the bat that the OP is fundamentally stupid is arrogant and silly. When the Q is obviously way out there, as in the example I gave, fine. Otherwise, geez, let it go.
As far as discussion, when the Q is very specific, the discussion should be, also. Again, does anyone think they will persuade with rudeness and derision?

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

Man, I didn’t piss on either of those two. I must be growing.

Neizvestnaya's avatar

I believe there are some people who delight in trying to make themselves look really enlightened by crapping on others.

I do think most of the attacks are on purpose rather than to display alternate views.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

How else are you going to know where I measure on the asshole meter?

wundayatta's avatar

Why not simply pass it by if you think the question is based on a flawed premise?

I don’t pass them by for any number of reasons. One, I find that many questions here are not asking the question they appear to be asking. So, for example, someone might be asking “How can I find God,” but the underneath question is “how can I cope with being overwhelmed by life?”

People are not often able to ask the question they seem to really want an answer to. This gets to something that really interest me about fluther. I like talking about the things that interest me. As long as they are related to the topic of the question, then I feel fine about moving to an issue that may not go along with the premise of the question, and yet may answer the OP’s concerns far better than any direct answer to the question could.

Most of us, I have found, are unable to formulate the real questions to which we want answers. We do the best we can, but inevitably we are misunderstood. Or we don’t know what we are going for, really. People in pain, in particular, have a hard time articulating what they are really looking for.

Another reason for going beyond the OP’s question is that the question no longer belongs to them once they ask it. It belongs to the community, now. It is kind of funny because there are several people who are very interested in the motives of the questioner. They want to know where the question comes from. I think, but don’t know, that these people answer the questions differently depending on the motives that ascribe to the questioner.

Personally, I don’t think the questioner’s motives are that important. They are important, just not that important. So we had a question about finding God from a person who called themselves a troll. To a person who thinks motives matter, it seems to me this would completely invalidate the question. The questioner was cheating. Therefore the question should be withdrawn.

I think that’s interesting, but that the question is still valid whether the questioner meant it or not. That is, I have a response that I think would be interesting to other people in the community, or would be interesting to me. It doesn’t matter whether the questioner is sincere or not. I still have an answer that is interesting to think through.

Finally, I wonder who any of us is to judge another person’s answer? I know the mods have the job of judging answers, but they could be, and in fact are removing many answers that are useful to some people. There is no consensus about what is a good answer or a useful answer of a lurve-worthy answer. That’s why we all get to add lurve, but no one can take it away…. except the mods.

The mods belong to some higher authority, and although they talk and talk all the time about their standards, I don’t think they really know very clearly what their standards are. maybe with spam or ad homimem attacks, things are clearer, but there are many issues, such as whether an answer responds to a question in general, where there is no way they can justify their moderations except by saying they, personally, don’t like the answer for one reason or another. Sometimes they have discussions when other mods don’t agree with them, and then you know there are no defensible criteria, because at least one person in power can see it another way. I, of course, can find another way to see just about anything, so I would never agree with any of those decisions. I would see all those answers as valuable (I say this without having seen many of them, so data might change my opinion).

Anyway, I said “finally,” so I’m done, but I could go on. There are many reasons (I’d say “reasoned” reasons if I could) why someone would go further afield to answer a question than an answer that would, to the OP, seem like an acceptable answer. Let’s just say that the OP has a very narrow view of what acceptable answers are (unless she wants to make a joke), and that others have much wider ranges of acceptability. Obviously, closing down the range of answers hurts folks, since it reduces the chances they will get something useful.

tinyfaery's avatar

Taking a piss is a lot messier than taking a dump.

Really though, sometimes I’m just in a pissy mood.

wundayatta's avatar

Ah, but we luvs yo’ pissy moods, @tinyfaery! You put the piss in vinegar!

JilltheTooth's avatar

What fantastic arrogance for anyone to assume that they know better than the asker what was meant to be asked.

wundayatta's avatar

What can I say? You would be surprised how often I have been right. You’d have to go through a lot of pms, but the evidence is there. Try to imagine that some people might be a little bit more perspicacious than you are, @JilltheTooth I know it’s hard, but you’re not the only intelligent one on the planet. ;-P

FutureMemory's avatar

@JilltheTooth Forget this thread for a few and come play Scrabble with me :)

Blackberry's avatar

It seems like there are two choices: let someone wallow in ignorance and/or misinformation, or throw out a friendly correction. As long as the correction is friendly, I don’t see a problem with it.

There is a difference between “Is god real?” and “Should I vaccinate my child?”

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

I don’t think this can be avoided with religion… or politics.
I don’t understand the need for people to comment on questions only to point out that they think a question is stupid or pointless. I notice that happening around here, and it makes me cranky. If you don’t like the question, don’t answer it.

JilltheTooth's avatar

Yes, @wundayatta , you’re right. I would be very surprised, indeed.

marinelife's avatar

I don’t like it when people attack the religious beliefs of others.

jrpowell's avatar

If shit adds nothing to the conversation flag it and let the mods deal with it. It is what they are not paid to do.

nikipedia's avatar

I think what you’re talking about is exactly why the Social and General categories were created.

If someone puts a question in Social, and asks about something that is highly controversial, or has been explicitly disproven, as far as I am concerned that person is asking to have the premise of the question discussed.

If you only want serious, specific answers, put your question in General. Otherwise, it’s fair game.

Also, @JilltheTooth, you grant that in some cases it’s fair to question the premise rather than answer the question. Where do you personally draw the line?

JilltheTooth's avatar

Neither of the Qs, @nikipedia, to which I referred had any indication in either the Q as presented or the details that they wanted any kind of discussion on the validity of their beliefs. Yes, I know the difference between General and Social, I’m talking about basic good manners here, which seems to be a synonym for so many of “self-censorship”, which some use to excuse rudeness. I know people do do this, I know people can do this, I just can’t fathom why people feel the need to do this.
I personally draw the line when a reasonable Q that has a specific purpose is hijacked for an agenda. The example I gave above to @Kardamom about the home for wayward aardvarks should be cause for concern. Casual discussion about the type of person one might date, worded playfully, should not. I won’t debate the use of my word “reasonable” with you here, you have in the past picked apart my posts word by word to argue with me, so it would be pointless, but the people not pissed off at me or needing to prove some point will know what I mean. When I have missed on a Q and been told so by the OP I have apologized and flagged myself. If I have a serious issue with the premise, I will also send the OP a PM asking about it, rather than slap them on a public thread.

nikipedia's avatar

@JilltheTooth, does it make a difference to you if people disagree with a premise politely, or does it bother you that they do it at all?

Aethelflaed's avatar

Everyone does this. It’s not just questions about faith, some of the most common ones are about pregnancy (all the “you should have used protection/not slept together” comments, despite the asker’s inability to go back in time), the possible homework questions, questions about how to deal with a marital problem, parenting questions, pretty much everything holiday related… People like to feel like they’re helpful, like they’ve got something to contribute. And in the case of the faith question, some atheists know exactly what that crisis of faith is like, they just came out with a different result than others.

Honestly, Jill, you contributed to that questions derailing just as much as the atheists/anti-theists with all of your telling them that they should shut up; it then turned into a huge thing about if atheists should or shouldn’t answer the question, instead of people answering the question actually asked. Which might be ok, except only if the OP chooses to steer the convo that way – the OP, not you. If you had just let it be, there would have been a small handful of not-so-helpful answers (just like most other questions), but no big derailing.

JilltheTooth's avatar

Rudeness always bothers me. If a premise is stated to be disagreed with, do it nicely. If a discussion of the validity of the belief system is not even remotely part of the question, don’t jump in with an entirely different agenda. Pretty simple, that. I am not, nor have I been here, concerned with “questioning a premise”. I am concerned with people deciding that their world view is more valid than someone elses to the point that they hijack a Q to say so.
@Aethelflaed : Yes, I got caught up in it as well, and yes it bothers me as much when the pregger Qs get hijacked. I did not however, start it. I also hate it when the Q is about dealing with a relationship and half the posters say “break up”, and even as simple as someone wanting advice on a new PC, specifies not an Apple product, and someone says “Get a Mac, anything else is a waste of money”.

OpryLeigh's avatar

I often find myself wondering why people bother to open a question if they can see by the first sentence that it is about something that they do not relate to and then leave snide answers. The question that I think inspired this Q, @JilltheTooth, was one of this times. I really hope that I have never crapped on someone else’s questions here in the way that you are describing and if I have then I am sorry to whoevers Q I did that to.

incendiary_dan's avatar

Superiority/inferiority complexes.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

Okay, so I think we’re all a little overheated here myself included and I have a suggestion: let’s pull our panties out of our cracks, have some of Coloma’s happy brownies, drink a little rum, sing a rousing chorus of Kumbaya, and wait for Auggie to show up with her whip.

Kardamom's avatar

@WillWorkForChocolate Didn’t you hear? Since Christmas, Auggie’s been using a tickle feather instead of a whip : P

nikipedia's avatar

@WillWorkForChocolate, I’m down.

And @JilltheTooth, I am not at all trying to argue or prove a point, in case that was directed at me. I think what you bring to our community is really valuable, and this is a great, helpful discussion.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

@Kardamom Oh HELL no! Auggie ain’t Auggie without a whip!——@nikipedia Sweet! I’ve got more liquor filled chocolates, too, bwuahaha!

bkcunningham's avatar

Come on. Ding, ding. Go at it again. Don’t be civil. Hit her. Hit her. Hit her while she’s down. Pull her hair. Use your nails. Gouge the eyes.

Oohh. Sorry. I forgot where I was for a minute.

JilltheTooth's avatar

Wait wait @bkcunningham , who’s down? Is it me? can I take a nap now? or is it her? In which case, can we trade places so I can have that nap? I’m confused.
I want some of dem boozy candies. They won’t let us have those in Connecticut because they’re stoopid poopy heads perfect use of gender neytral insult, there, didja see that? here in Connecticut. I once spent almost a week trying to track some down, but they won’t let us have them, something to do with the liquor laws and food laws and never the twain shall meet and it makes no sense. Just pisses me off. They have to be smuggled in.

bkcunningham's avatar

Probably some stupid religious thing, @JilltheTooth.

JilltheTooth's avatar

Probably…hahaha…really, there are a lot of goofy blue laws in this state. (But in Colorado, when I lived there, you couldn’t buy a car on Sunday. That is also a silly thing.)

judochop's avatar

I don’t even piss on trees when I am camping.

bkcunningham's avatar

Did you know that Moore County, Tenn., where they make Jack Daniel’s, is a dry county?

bkcunningham's avatar

But you can buy the whiskey at the distillery in Lynchburg. You can also buy those little chocolates with the whiskey inside. Just an interesting bit I thought I’d throw out there.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

@JilltheTooth Ummm, did I, or did I not tell you to fly yer ass down here? I will gladly share my boozy chocolates with you! And feed you Southern comfort foods, and give you a professional massage, and give you more liquor, and take you to the movies, and buy more chocolate, and…

JilltheTooth's avatar

On my way! I throw my hands up in the air and shout AAAYYYOOO! Crap. It’s hardwired in, now.

bkcunningham's avatar

Seriously, who was it, Southwest Airlines, that was having that amazing sale? Two members of my husband’s family are flying from Northern New York to Florida this spring to visit us. It was like $138 roundtrip, nonstop. They can’t book the flight until after Jan. 10 and flights must be used by sometime in Oct.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

I worked so hard all day to get it out of my head, and in an instant it is back.

janbb's avatar

Anyone for a pizza?

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

Sure, just keep your fish off of it. :D

janbb's avatar

I’ll put my steenkin’ fish wherever I damn want to! :D

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

This is taking me back to the tastebud question.

digitalimpression's avatar

People are assholes.

wundayatta's avatar

People are kissers, too!

bkcunningham's avatar

People can be ass kissers.

wundayatta's avatar

Well, there’s ass kissing and then there’s ass kissing!

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

Okay, there will be no fish AND no ass holes on my pizza. You guys are weird.

Blackberry's avatar

I worship butts.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

@Blackberry Where do you sign up for your church?

bkcunningham's avatar

Are skanks allowed in that church?

Blackberry's avatar

My bedroom.

Blackberry's avatar

@bkcunningham My lord doesn’t turn away anyone, lol.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

@Blackberry LMAO. But will I still be allowed in the church if that happens?

Blackberry's avatar

@Adirondackwannabe Lol! We pride ourselves on our tolerance, no matter how muscular and possibly hairy.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

@Blackberry I was thinking female and smooth. Hairy wasn’t in my prayers.

Blackberry's avatar

The butt works in mysterious ways…...

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

That it does.

augustlan's avatar

Ok, so, I’m down for the party and all, but I do want to seriously answer this question, too. Don’t hurt me.

I truly don’t understand the stuff like “You won’t like my answer, so I’ll keep my mouth shut.” That seems unnecessarily antagonistic to me, and isn’t useful in any way.

However, questioning the premise is perfectly fine with me, even in religious or other ‘sensitive’ questions, and it can be useful – as long as it’s done in a respectful manner. If one wants only Christians, or only atheists, parents, PhD candidates, or only any particular group of people to answer their question, one should post it on a site that limits its membership to that group. Fluther isn’t that site, and all viewpoints can (and likely will) be presented.

“Helpful” is obviously somewhat subjective, but I think a case can be made that most people feel they are being helpful when questioning a premise. “Most” being the operative word, of course. Some people are just asshats.

Paradox25's avatar

The astrology question (if I’m guessing at the right one here) was in the social section and asked several different questions. The OP in that question asked Aries men to give their opinions as well and as an Aries male myself I felt that it was important to describe how those personality traits she mentioned do not describe how I am, and I provided a link myself related to the question. It wasn’t my goal to try to debunk astrology since I’m probably one of the few paranormal enthusiasts on a fluther website full of paranormal sceptics, but I just wanted to give the QA a related and honest opinion coming from an Aries guy. Not all of us Aries guys have the same personality traits and after reading all of the zodiac signs I’ve found that the Capricorn and Virgo signs matched my personality the most.

Before the author of this thread became a member of fluther I remember the old format where everything had to stay on topic. I also remembered several of those threads asking questions related to the paranormal such as reincarnation, astrology, ghosts/spirits, etc where the author specifically asked that only believers respond. I remembered some of the responses in those threads and how they frequently got invaded by sceptics before getting moderated. Some people create threads with the purpose of discussion rather than debates too and there is a proper time and place to debate topics.

judochop's avatar

I wizzle pizzle on it but I won’t aizzle for it. If somizzle tizzle thizzle much offizzle to a word I’vizzle sizzle thizzle thizzle probizzle should consizzle just stizzle to crossword puzzlizzle Thizzle sizzle is buizzle for opizzle and dizzle and I honizzle do thizzle thizzle thizzle arizzle somizzle folks hizzle who cizzle hizzle bizzle dizzle wizzle Thizzle dizzle gizzle locizzle and dizzle gizzle plizzle a hugizzle pizzle in thizzle For thizzle most pizzle wizzle arizzle a lizzle wizzle lizzle thought, forwizzle movizzle collizzle but I’vizzle nizzle mizzle a lizzle group of folks who cizzle dizzle wizzle wizzle gizzle shot down thizzle thizzle lizzle wizzle and whizzle somizzle from thizzle rizzle wizzle comizzle in wizzle an opizzle God forbizzle thizzle gizzle shut out and kizzle down, just for hizzle a poizzle of vizzle If wizzle wizzle all thizzle sizzle thizzle shizzle would bizzle borizzle
I will piss on it but I won’t aim for it. If someone takes that much offense to a word I’ve said then they probably should consider just sticking to crossword puzzles. This site is built for opinion and debate and I honestly do think that there are some folks here who can’t handle being disagreed with. The different geographical locations and different generations play a huge part in this. For the most part we are a left wing, left thought, forward moving collective but I’ve never met a larger group of folks who can’t deal well with getting shot down than the left wing and when someone from the right wing comes in with an opinion God forbid, they get shut out and kicked down, just for having a point of view. If we were all the same this shit would be boring.
put that in your toilet and take aim

CWOTUS's avatar

God knows. Or maybe not.

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