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ETpro's avatar

If you were the judge, what would you decide in the Tony Nicklinson case?

Asked by ETpro (34605points) January 23rd, 2012

Tony Nicklinson was a rugby star in the UK. After retiring, he became a high-flying executive in Dubai, where he spent his free time sky-diving and bridge climbing. But all that ended with a paralyzing stroke seven years ago. Since then, he has been a brain locked in an almost immobile body. He can move his head a bit, and nothing else. He can’t even speak. He needs constant care to stay alive. And he doesn’t want to stay alive.

For a man whose entire life had been action on the edge, it’s certainly understandable what an unbearable life in solitary confinement sentence his current condition must feel like to him. He has petitioned the British High Court to declare that a doctor who gives him a lethal injection will not be held guilty of murder. He wants to die. By head movement he has clearly indicated it is his desire to die.

Now most people who want to die can simply do so by their own action. But Tony isn’t in that class. He can’t end his own life, and he can’t even die by refusing to cooperate with those who force feed him and remove his bodily wastes.

Are you pro life or pro choice? How would that position reflect on this case if you were the judge and if British Law gave you no clear direction on which way to decide the case? If you are strongly Pro Life, do you believe you have the right to force another person to live a life they find unbearable?

I realize this issue is VERY different from the abortion debate, where the unborn has no say in the matter. So please answer this question outside of that debate. Does an adult of competent mental capacity have a right to die, or do others control that decision for the individual in question?

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17 Answers

marinelife's avatar

I believe that someone in his position should be able to send their lives.

Pandora's avatar

I would want my wishes followed but at the same time I find it difficult to request someone do something like this for me. It isn’t just clear black and white. Its like the story of Pontius Pilate. The person giving the order may feel (morally) that someones innocent blood is on their hands.
But if the person is being kept alive by extra ordinary means than I don’t see pulling the plug as murder. I see that as allowing the natural course of life to take its course.
I wouldn’t include starving. Thats just cruel.

zenvelo's avatar

My view is that people have the right to control over their own body. It’s a fundamental right which is the basis for abortion rights, too. He should be allowed to end his life in whatever manner he can. And if the only way is finding a compassionate doctor, the Court should grant immunity to the doctor.

wundayatta's avatar

It’s hard to know. If someone had helped me out when I wanted to die, I wouldn’t be here. At what point are you badly enough off that we should let you have your wish to die? How do we know that in a few years, we’ll be able to bypass the stroke damage and restore his body to him in a pretty functional way?

Would he wait twenty years if he knew he’d get his body back? Ten years? Five years?

It could be torture in there right now. He might have all kinds of itches and pains that he can do nothing about. His brain might be firing off extraneous signals all over the place.

How many years would you wait to recover your body? How many years would you force someone else to wait? Or do we help people who want to to die?

We obviously don’t help everyone who wants to. So there is some standard, but it isn’t clear what the standard is. I’m reminded of Catch-22. If you’re sufficiently clear to know you want to die, you are too clear to need to die. If you are fuzzy enough to need to die, you aren’t clear enough to ask to die.

tinyfaery's avatar

Your body. Your choice. As far as the consequences for someone else performing the illegal act, that’s for that individual to decide. Is helping someone worth prison time? If it were my loved one it would definitely be worth it. But for a doctor? Hmm… Dr. K. willing went to jail.

As the judge, I’d advocate policy change.

Coloma's avatar

If one is able to communicate their wishes, they should be honored.
Poor man, stuck in a lifeless shell of a non-functioning body, I’m not sure the most enlightened gurus in the world could make peace with that circumstance.
If I were the judge I would allow the man to go with some measure of grace and dignity if he so chose.

100 years ago he would have already been dead.
I do not agree with heroic life saving measures that include force feeding or medicating those against their will.
It seems to me if I were in that situation, having lost all control of my destiny, I would hope that I was afforded my last “rights” to choose my exit as a final act of empowerment in a powerless body.

bea2345's avatar

Never mind fundamental rights to one’s own body. That’s a contentious subject. Out of charity he should be allowed to die but only if his wishes are absolutely clear.

Ron_C's avatar

The doctor that gives the guy a lethal injection is a great humanitarian, not a murder. I am disgusted that government gets involved in these thing. One quick way out for Tony Nicklinson, if he’s still in Dubai would be to insult the Koran or Allah. Some religious maniac would be sure to end Nicklinson’s life and we get another dead terrorist as a bonus.

marinelife's avatar

Ack! End not send.

whitenoise's avatar

I am Dutch.

I’ve had people that are very dear to me choose to have their life ended under medical guidance, when life had become a suffering portal to death.

I feel deeply grateful that they had that choice. Mr. Nicklinson should have the same.

Ron_C's avatar

@whitenoise the Dutch seem very enlightened in their attitudes towards medicine drugs, and human rights. A little of that needs to spread to the U.K. and U.S.

flutherother's avatar

If I were the judge I would allow him to go.

Seaofclouds's avatar

Rather than have a doctor give him a lethal injection, he should be allowed to refuse the care he is receiving and instead, be kept comfortable while he passes on his own. I believe everyone has the right to refuse medical treatment anytime they wish.

Physician assisted suicide is a touchy situation. I understand why they don’t want doctor’s running around “assisting” people with their suicide. I think people should have options though, and refusing the live saving care and being put on comfort measures instead is one such option.

CaptainHarley's avatar

It’s his body. The state does not own it. As a Libertarian, I must say that it’s each individual’s right to decide when their life will end. As a Christian, I must say that taking one’s own life is wrong, but unlike some Christians, I don’t believe it condemns you to eternal damnation.

bkcunningham's avatar

I believe in personal choice and freedom. As I’ve gotten older, the discussion of euthanasia has gotten more complex for me. Where do you draw the line? I agree with @Seaofclouds. My mom was on dialysis and wanted to stop her treatments after about five years of suffering. We actually discussed the hospice care and her death with her physician. It was pretty intense. I laid in bed with her one night when she was in the hospital waiting on another surgery for her fistula (which she was refusing) and I cried like a baby and begged her to continue her treatments for a while longer. I wasn’t ready to let her go. She agreed to more treatments and eventually died about a year later from congestive heart failure. If you haven’t walked that path or even tread a little way down that path, you have no idea what you or your loved one is dealing with.

ETpro's avatar

Thanks to all who replied. Not a soul seems to think Tony should be forced by the state to live as long as heroic medical intervention can keep him living. I add my vote to that, making it unanimous. With the eye surgery done today, I can’t manage an individual reply top each answer. I wish I clould. But there are a few things I’d add, and several answers I must include in doing so.

@bkcunningham My sincere condolonces on the loss of your mom, and on the fact it had to include such a period of suffering for her, and testing for you. That very personal story illustrates exaclty why this is not a simple issue resilved by a Pro Life or Pro Choice bumper sticker. Thank you for sharing it.

@CaptainHarley I fully appreciate the cognitive dissonance the question of assisted suicide, or even the withholding of heroic medical intervention prolonging an intolerable life raises for you. If God is love, I cannot imagine Him punishing Tony for his decision that it’s time to dioe, or a compassionate medical expert who helps him do so with whatever dignity he can retain, and without even more extreme suffering.

@Coloma “If one is able to communicate their wishes, they should be honored.” I’m glad you brought that up. Tony is able to indicate his desires and even to petition the British High Court through head movements. But this case should remind us all to write a living will explaining how we eould like end-of-life ussurs dealt with, just in case we are ever incapacitated to the point of an advanced vegatitive state. I also think you are spot on in suggesting that just substituting pain mediation for forced deeding and letting bature take its course is the right way to handle this issue, rather than lethal injections. I find he idea of doctors trying to save lives also sometimes ending them disturbing, The Republican Big Lie about death panels was just that, a Big Lie. The provision, one originally introduced by Republicans, was to allow Medicare to pay for end-of-life counseling by a physician when a patient and their family members wanted such advice. It was not some bureau deciding whether it’s cheaper to keep grandma alive or pull her plug. But if doctors are in the business of life and death; it;s not a great stretch to imagine a time when panels do decide which is cheaper.

@wundayatta You raise an excellent point. Just how do we decide that a person has mnade an informed decision on when to die. The teen who wants to dioe after their first whirlwind love affair goes up in smoke, and Tony Nicklinson are two very different cases. And what of people suffering from debilitating, painful conditions who want it ended now, but who doctors are confident they can return to a level of function that will make their lives meaningful. What a tragedy for someone to end it all when the cure for their condition hits the newssrand within days of their passing.

For the reasons @Coloma and others have noted, I don;t think medical doctors should be the ones charged with ending a patient’s life. I think we need a new category of mediacl/psychological professional. They should be schooled in and licensed to provide palliative care and councelling. They should help a suffering patient nd their family sort through the psychological issues for both the patient wishing to end the suffering, and the family members who may wish to say no for their own reasons and are not able to or letting themselves see the reasons their loved one is ready to give up the ghost And they should understand psychology well enough to know that if an emotional disaster or treatable mental disease is producing the death wish; treatment and counseling is preferable to lethal injection. I am so glad our own Fluther treasure, @wundayatta is still with us today and contributing so much to so many when there was a tine in his life when he seriously considered ending it.

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