Is all this media talk in America on contraception ridiculous to you?

This is exactly why I don’t watch TV or utilize mainstream media sources.

Yawn.

@tinyfaery Yawning at my question, or agreeing the topic in the media is boring?

@Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard Took the words right out of my mouth. I can’t remember the last time I listened to TV news. I read newspapers, but I pick and choose pretty carefully what I read. Our politicians are such assholes it’s hard to even care anymore.

I don’t really watch TV anymore at all for things like this, so I’m not aware of what’s going on with the media anymore. Is it that bad lol? Actually I believe you, it probably is.

I answered the question. Something I rarely do anymore. Take a guess.

Yes, I just can’t believe anybody thinks that they should be able to make decisions for other people. It is so simply obnoxious.

It is stupid, but there are non-political people out there making a big damn deal out of it and are forcing the government to react.

@Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard nailed it. This type of question can catch me off guard because I had no idea there is talk about contraception in the media. For all I know, there could be a roundtable “debate” on some asinine “news” show right now arguing flat vs. spherical earth. “Coming up next, what did Whitney Houston think about the issue…”

I 2nd @Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard and @Adirondackwannabe
I checked out of all media and TV after 9/11
I watch documentaries on topics of interest to me.
Just more big brother trying to control baby sister.

So much that is in media is there because it creates controversy and controversy sells whatever it is they are selling. Ads, I guess. You want to generate outrage if you are a media business person. The fact that there is a question like this shows they hit the topic on target. There are a significant number of people who can’t believe this is an issue, and yet it is.

Politicians are trying to take away our right to control our own bodies. It’s ridiculous. And yet, we have to pay attention or we will lose autonomy. The government is caving in to religious fanatics and letting them control our bodies. It’s supposed to be unconstitutional and yet, it’s still an ongoing battle.

You can say it’s ridiculous, but you ignore it at your own peril. People who don’t pay attention may easily find themselves stuck in a box with chains around their ankles, and if they are women, they may find themselves forced to be baby making machines! Do not ignore this, no matter how ridiculous it sounds.

I favor making contraceptives widely available, and educating people on their use. But I have a real problem with abortion. I don’t see any other way of handling the abortion issue other than giving women the right to choose, but I definitely do NOT like the idea of killing babies! Makes an even better argument for contraception education.

I agree with the good captain.

@CaptainHarley Excellent point.

You are so right on this, @wundayatta. Do not allow the government to take away your individual autonomy by forcing you to enter into a private contract with a private company or by forcing a private company to provide a service. Do not allow the government to assault the free exercise of religion by putting a barrier at the church door and saying you can’t cross that line or you will bow to the state.

@CaptainHarley – Wow. I completely agree with you. Doesn’t happen often, but it’s refreshing when it does.

@CaptainHarley, great answer! I’m a member of “Feminists for life,” and that is EXACTLY our point.

LMAO @tom_g

[ Faints! ] **THUD** : D

@GracieT

Women are the ones who have to manage this issue, IMHO. Men can kibbitz, but in the end it’s a woman’s issue. I just hope that women in general don’t forget to be loving and compassionate, as well as determined and outspoken.

@CaptainHarley, again GA! But, of course it is when you agree with me! ;0)

The news media feeds off controversy, the more personal, the better. This issue of personal choice is worth fighting for. Vote!

ROFLMAO @GracieT

Well, thank you for that anyway. : ))

Ridiculous and scary. There are groups of people that want us to live in a theocracy based on their religious rules.

There are a lot of folks out there who think that the 1600s should be our goal.

@CaptainHarley for President!!

@elbanditoroso

See? This is the sort of thing that worries me… this attempt to demonize the opposition. These are often people who truly believe that abortion is murder. They have no desire to establish a theocracy, or force their religions beliefs on anyone else .. from their viewpoint, they just want the killing to stop.

I don’t see what abortion has to do with it? Muddying contraception with abortion is part of what bores me on the whole topic. We have media talking all day about the fact that the majority of women use contraception, is that a surprise? Our families usually have 2 kids.

If they want to argue whether contraception should be covered by a mandate ok, but tell us what contraception is over and over again? I myself wrote a Q about the mandate, and there were some very compelling interesting arguments on it, but some in the media talk to the public as if they are ignorant and stupid. But, then, ho hum, many are I guess.

@Dutchess_III

Thank you for the sentiment, hon, but I’m just an old soldier waiting to die. And even if it were a possibilitiy, I wouldn’t want it. It’s a killer! Thank you again though! : ))

Yes, it boggles my mind. The US seems to grapple, and fervently, with so many issues (contraception, abortion, capital punishment, teaching evolution, healthcare, even the freaking metric system) that the rest of the world has decided on a long time ago. I always find it incredible when someone pulls out a list of country rankings in whatever and the US is down at the bottom with African or Middle Eastern countries that are considered “less developed”.

@JLeslie The reason that contraception is fought by the the anti-abortion folks is that they believe that life begins at conception. Some forms of birth control, like the pill and the IUD, carry at least the possibility that instead of preventing fertilization, a fertilized egg will be prevented from implanting in the uterine wall. That, in their opinion, constitutes an abortion. They see these forms of contraception as being a slippery slope to murdering children.

@dappled_leaves

I stop short at labelling abortion as “murder,” so long as it takes place very early in the pregnancy, but things like “partial birth abortion” grieve my soul and heart. I devoutly wish there was some sort of 100% effective birth control, but until there is, I see absolutely no way to handle this issue other than to place the decision with those who must bear the majority of the consequences of an unwanted pregnancy… women.

I am reading a book now that talks about the history of evangelicalism and how many of the beliefs of today’s evangelicals would be unspeakable in the past. Life beginning at conception would be thought of as ridiculous.

@CaptainHarley Good – that’s where I want it, too.

@dappled_leaves I think the Catholic church looks at all prevention of pregnancy as wrong period, they don’t have a slippery slope, but I do understand others may perceive it as a slippery slope. But, I would say 95% of the American population does not consider birth control pills the same topic as abortion at all. Maybe morning after pills, because a number of people feel life begins at conception, but does not go to the extreme of the church regarding BC pills. Was Obama’s original mandate only regarding birth control pills? Or, morning after and medical abortions also? I thought it was just BC pills, but maybe I am mistaken? I can’t see any slippery slope if it was just for BC pills to prevent ovulation.

@JLeslie I agree that women who use contraception don’t see them as the same, and I agree that the Catholic church is against all contraception (at least in theory), however I think that the anti-abortion movement is what is driving the discussion right now. Catholic churches and hospitals were already providing insurance for contraceptives in most states before now – it’s sort of incredible that Obama caved under pressure, given that. Then you have the Personhood Pledge that most Republican hopefuls have signed, and Santorum and Romney specifically answering questions by saying that they are not in favour of contraception – it’s a topic of discussion in the media because of more than just the church insurance thing.

Nope. Because it means it’s 1964 and The Beatles are about to get huge. Score!

@JLeslie, the Affordable Care Act mandates “women’s preventive care” requiring health insurance plans provide all FDA-approved contraceptive methods, steriliztion procedures, education, yearly wellness visits, breastfeeding counseling and breast pumps, screenings for HPV, gestational diabetes, STI and HVI and domestic abuse without a co-pay. Also in there is employers with 50 or more employees must provide a lactation station for women who are breastfeeding.

@CaptainHarley – it’s about far more than abortion, as you know.

It’s about parental consent for marriage, it’s about disallowing mosques in christian areas, it’s about birth control, it’s about teaching creationism and disavowing evolution. It’s a pattern of wanting to return to the dark ages.

If it were ONLY abortion I wouldn’t have that big of an issue.

@bkcunningham Thanks. So, indeed it is just prevention of pregnancy.

@dappled_leaves Are you saying the insurance matter just sparked a bigger discussion? Then I think they should talk about the bigger discussion, but not keep saying contraception is not abortion when talking about the original Obama policy, because for the church it is still against God, and the main point regarding Obama’s policy was can the government mandate a religious organization to provide coverage for something fundamentally against its tenets? If the Republicans want to talk about abortion, fine. And, I say the Republicans because they are in their primaries right now. It is the democrats who keep trying to explain what contraception is and that everyone uses it. My overall comment is, the dems sound dumb saying that over and over again, because the argument against the mandate is not about how many people use contraception and what contraception is in my opinion.

I do think it is pertinent to the coverage argument that Catholic companies already had contraception in some of their insurance offerings, but that makes sense since the church seems ok with the Obama compromise, but the right wing keeps pushing the issue, and the left keeps trying to “educate” the public or something?

@JLeslie So what should the Dems argument be?

@JLeslie, whether or not the mandate oversteps the Hyde Amendment will depend on the government’s definition of preventive care and what the state pools cover.

@Aethelflaed They have to argue that it is ok to mandate the church to do something they are against. I would say the better argument against the right wing is to say if a Muslim organization does not want to cover something under sharia law, are we going to accept that as a good argument? Or, side with what our secular government feels is proper health care for it’s citizens? I don’t mind a citation of how many Americans using contraception, but the liberals are going too far and saying some stupid things I think.

If the politicians want to bring abortion back into the conversation, that is a separate matter from this in my opinion to the American public at large.

They tell us that 99% of women already use contraceptives. So what problem are we trying to solve?

Do you think the right wing also believes that insurance coverage will mean more people will use contraceptives? I just thought of that, no idea if it has merit. That they want to keep contraceptives out of the hands of people? That that is the true underlying motive for some? When I listen to the priests interviewed on this, I don’t really get that feeling. I don’t get the feelig they are trying to control the masses, especially not the nonCatholics.

@JLeslie I would agree with you on that. I think the problem is that there is a certain truth to the idea that it’s limiting the religious freedom of employers, but it’s doing so to ensure religious freedom for employees. Now, I’m kind of ok with limiting certain religious freedoms – no amount of the Bible saying it’s cool and even encouraged to sell your daughter into slavery, or that you just have to go rape, pillage, and murder that neighboring village is going to convince me that we shouldn’t continue to outlaw the hell out of those things. But, I do think it is one of those cases where one group will lose out at least a little bit, so it’s quite possibly the Dems are trying to step away from that angle.

I have heard that a lot of people are ok with this position because they don’t interpret the priests (and Santorum) as saying “you, personally, should not have contraceptives”, they hear “sex should be only for the marital bed” and “women should keep their legs together”, and think, yeah, sexuality is out of control, we need to do something about that.

The priests… I don’t think they’re trying to control the masses, I think they’re trying to control women’s bodies and sexualities, especially Catholic women’s. Catholic clerics have a good reputation for trying to do just that.

@Aethelflaed Limiting the religious freedom of employees? If I worked for the church I would not feel my religious freedoms were limited, I would feel like, the one thing that sucks is they don’t cover my BC pills. The same way I think it sucks that insurance companies in general do a fairly crappy job of covering my healthcare period. I would not feel it is an assault on my religious freedom.

@Aethelflaed That argument to me kind of sounds like the Christians around me who say not having prayer in school limits their religious freedom.

@JLeslie No, I’m saying the opposite – that the anti-abortion movement sparked the “controversy” over churches providing insurance for contraception. Churches in most states have been providing that insurance for years.

@dappled_leaves And, is your perception that the abortion issue came up because the antiabortion people started talking about it in the media recently? That the prolife group is actually the one pushing the conversation?

@JLeslie Like I said, I’m pretty much ok with no allowing religious folks to do whatever the hell it is they want just because their religion says it’s ok. And, yeah, limiting the religious freedom of the employees, to not have to follow the same religion as their employer.

What churches have been providing what insurance for years, @dappled_leaves

@JLeslie I think they are putting pressure on Republican hopefuls, and in their effort to race towards the far right and put even more distance between themselves and liberals, they are picking up those issues and carrying them.

Worth noting – Mike Huckabee and Mit Romney both signed mandates that would force religious employers to insure birth control while in office. Just sayin’.

@dappled_leaves I think Mitt didn’t sign it in office. I think he tried to get that out of his health plan.

@dappled_leaves I think what happened during his time as Governor was he wanted morning after to be given to raoe victims, even in Cathoic hospitals? Not sure now, I would need to research his record. What I do know is he was prochoice for years in terms of law. His personal view as a Mormon is abortion is wrong, but he had always supported keeping abortion available and safe. Previously. I think as governor he basically agreed to leave the laws of the land alone regarding abortion during his time as governor, which was abortion is legal in the US.

@bkcunningham I went back to where I originally heard it, which was this segment of the Rachel Maddow show – in fact the information (from 4:39) was that “28 states already require health insurance plans to cover contraceptives. Eight of those states require health insirance to cover contraceptives without exemptions – even for churches, even for any sort of religious institution. Even some major Catholic hospitals and Catholic universities that are not located in one of the 28 states required to cover contraception as part of the health insurance coverage do so.”

So, I remembered the “most states” part wrong – but my argument stands. This is not a new issue.

Did a question about why the media is wasting a huge amount of time talking about contraception in America in 2012 just spark a debate about contraception in America?

@tom_g It sure looks like it… I must sheepishly admit that I misunderstood the question. I thought @JLeslie was asking about non-Americans’ views of the current American debate over contraception.

Yep. Lol.

I welcome it!
The more that the American public hears tools like Santorum fancying themselves the American Pope, the more likely that someone NOT batshit crazy will win the election.

“I favor making contraceptives widely available, and educating people on their use. But I have a real problem with abortion. I don’t see any other way of handling the abortion issue other than giving women the right to choose, but I definitely do NOT like the idea of killing babies! Makes an even better argument for contraception education.”

I agree 100% with @CaptainHarley.

@tom_g But we are not arguing the parts I find ridiculous. Our discussion basically assumes everyone knows the difference between contraception and abortion, and that BC pills are used for other health problems. The crap I hear on TV keeps bringing up what I consider basic knowledge of most adult Americans.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to derail, @JLeslie. I get what you’re saying, and I would share your disgust and confusion if I could get myself to watch the diarrhea that passes as news on tv.

Well, even giving out information about contraception, used to be illegal in the USA, land of liberty.

This discussion is happening because of our atrocious media corporations, who are trying to make money and are owned by the same groups that buy neo-Republican politicians, who have recently tried to get national laws passed giving employers the right to exclude contraception from health insurance for their employees.

One incredibly retarded aspect of this is that the media feels it needs to keep repeating itself about the basic issue, as if the American public is incapable of grasping the basic concept of what contraception and abortion are, and so on. It’s all mind-numbing. Which seems to be part of the point too. Numbing everyone’s minds.

It is ridiculous. Fearsomely ridiculous.

You didn’t derail, it’s funny :). There is some truth in your statement.

Yes, I think it’s absolutely ridiculous and embarrassing. I saw one article whose title was “It’s 2012 and we’re still arguing about birth control.” I couldn’t agree more.

The comparisons between contraception and abortion are also laughable as well.

TL; DR

I think it is ridiculous if for no reason other than the anti-contraception crowd isn’t thinking things through. You can’t cut costs by increasing expenses, and children cost more than pills, so any financial argument is invalid. And telling people that can’t afford a child (or another child, as the case may be) that they have to pay if they want to have sex is wrong on a few levels.

Then there is the fact that there are bigger things going on in the world, but I doubt many people care about the economy, various wars going on in the world, or anything like that.

@elbanditoroso

Careful. It’s way too human and way too easy to tar an entire group with the same brush.

@jerv Are they using a cost reason in their arguments?

I am reminded of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. In many parts of the world, mine included, there is a feeling that Americans are too well fed.

Watching the Republican primary process is the same as Jerry Springer. The same type of people who follow the “series” are the ones who find time to think about that issue and exhibit fake outrage to up the anti to make a point. Who can be the most radical is what is going on, to be completely ignored by people with lives to live. After all the shredding they do to each other is over they all get behind “the guy” and kiss and make up. I can’t honestly believe these people think anyone but conservatives are watching this play out for now. Here in a few months these people will start to care about how Independents feel and you will see this nonsense stop…watch.

@bea2345 I think a lot about Maslow actually. There is a percentage of Americans who can talk about finding a job you love, treating yourself to a week at the spa, pursuing your dreams, and can spend hours contemplating whatever they want. And, then there is a huge percentage of Americans who can barely keep a roof over their heads and their family fed. The first group seems to not understand that the second group can’t worry about treating themselves to a luxury or higher level needs, when they are worried about basic needs.

@JLeslie

And the second group is growing by leaps and bounds. : (

@woodcutter Maybe that’s how it used to be, but everything they are saying while pandering to the far right is being recorded and will be used against the winner later. The candidates need to learn that consistency matters when every sentence is a potential sound bite. I think that is one of the things that really hurt McCain in his presidential run.

@dappled_leaves I thought that pandering to the Far Right and choosing Palin as a running mate was what finally did McCain in. And after barring a woman from that committee discussion since she was “neither appropriate nor qualified”, along with a few other things they’ve done just this week alone, polls indicate that Obama now leads by 2 to 1 amongst women. I am not sure how accurate those polls actually are, but common sense dictates that they have indeed alienated a rather large group of voters. Did they forget about the 19th Amendment?

@CaptainHarley Sadly, yes. The irony there is that the people who complain the most about taxes and government spending are the ones who made so much of the increased spending and the resulting need for increased tax revenue necessary. Kind of reminds me of my mother-in-law; she kept her thermostat cranked to 82F and then complained about a $450/month heating bill without accepting any responsibility for causing it.

@jerv

Accepting pesonal responsibility seems to be problmatic for many Americans. : (

@CaptainHarley At all levels. Whose responsibility is it to make sure that there are enough jobs posting a living wage so that everybody who is both willing and able to work can do so?
In this case though, we are paying insurance companies to take care of our health. By failing to do so, they forfeit any and all rights to profit. See, the way things work is that you earn a profit from providing goods or services. The only other way to profit is turning to fraud, theft, or other criminal endeavors. So, are insurance companies going to relent, lower their premiums, or just become criminals?

What do you mean, “become?”

@CaptainHarley They have not been convicted, and often are not even charged, so they currently avoid the “criminal” label on a semantic technicality :p

@jerv

Crap! They’re still criminals in my book. I hate insurance companies, banks, and financial wheeler-dealers like Bernie Madoff.

Did you know Madeoff’s son committed suicide over that deal? :(

@JLeslie – what I should have said – ”some Americans are too well fed.” I stand corrected.

@bea2345 I wasn’t trying to correct you, I was agreeing with you. But, yes, some is more correct.

@Dutchess_III

I seem to recall hearing about it, but since I consider suicide a terrible waste it must not have registered with me. Sad. My grown children and I have had our differences, but we have managed to hang onto our love for one another. My oldest is 47.

@CaptainHarley, sometimes people are hurting so much that suicide seems to be the only way of ending the pain. I’ve almost attempted it twice, and I’m a Christian. Congrats on your relationship with your kids- I know how complicated that can be, and you deserve much praise for remaining close.

@GracieT

For me, suicide has never been an option, although there have been times in my life when I have to aver that I thought about it in passing.