Do Christians believe that they can be forgiven for anything?

Some do, and some don’t. I assume the majority don’t believe this because it’s just irrational. Awhile ago the catholic church literally received money from people to absolve them of their sins. Things like this make people see the fiasco for what it is.

Presumably. To say that an act is unforgivable means to put a restriction on god’s capacity for forgiveness. I’m pretty sure that’s a no-no.

I have heard christians say (or seen them write, rather) that if Hitler repented shortly before his death he would be in heaven right now. Not a place I would want to be.

There is a reference in Matthew to an unforgiveable sin:

“Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”

There are various takes on what “speaking against the Holy Spirit” might involve, but whatever it is, there’s no forgiveness for it.

I was brought up Catholic, and here’s what they told me: You could do anything and be forgiven, but you had to believe in Jesus Christ. As a kid, this was terrifying. In a sense, I was afraid that my runaway mind might get me condemned for eternity for a thought crime.

Disclaimer: I’m not sure if this is official Roman Catholic position. Just my experience.

Romans 6:1–2
“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”

1 Samuel 16:7
“But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.”

@digitalimpression – those biblical quotations, while entertaining, are meaningless to me. I think you’re trying to make a point. But because all you did is copy & paste from the bible, I don’t have a clue what point you are trying to make.

Can you give an original answer, which is clear and cogent?

This is the never ending Christian Debate, Law vs Gospel.
Most Christians agree that Gods Grace is sufficient, but also, you should not take advantage of Grace. There are dire spiritual ramifications from doing that (I suffered them) but salvation is not dependent on what WE do or don’t do, it depends on what Christ did.

@elbanditoroso what’s so wrong with @digitalimpression‘s answer? The question is about Christians and where else is one to turn for an answer about Christian doctrine than the holy book they are expected to follow?

I think what @digitalimpression is trying to say with those quotations, in the context of this question, is that Christians are a) capable of being forgiven of anything as long as they do not “continue in sin” as the verse from Romans suggests. And b) seen through by God, in that He can see if their asking for forgiveness is genuine or not (because He can “looketh on [their] heart[s]). That is what is implied by these two verses. Therefore, God is capable of forgiving anything, but only so much as a Christian is capable of genuinely repenting and actually striving to not commit the sin again. That’s not to say that they will be damned forever the second, third, or fourth time they commit the same sin, so long as they are genuinely apologetic and actually make an effort to not commit the sin. What actually constitutes a genuine effort and genuine repentance is subject to debate.

Also, what @Judi said.

@elbanditoroso At least 3 people aren’t capable of seeing what I thought was perfectly evident. Thanks for spelling it out “Barney Style” @Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard .

If you are a true believer (God and yourself know who[1 Samuel 16:7]) you probably won’t have a desire to continue doing things wrong believing that you have everlasting forgiveness. The desire to do so simply isn’t there. It is when you decide to separate yourself from God that this desire begins to grow and can potentially overwhelm you.

@digitalimpression , I am still having trouble understanding you. Following from what @Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard said, would you agree that if someone on his death bed is truly sorry for the evil things he did his entire life, then he will be forgiven?

@ragingloli Its not the act of just asking for forgiveness. You have to really mean what you say and see feel all the pain and consequences of your sin. Its like some people believe if they go to penance every week and ask for forgiveness and act contrite that their sin is forgiven. So they go out and do it again to come back next week and ask for forgiveness for the same act again. Well if you continue to do it, than that means you were never really sorry.
A person can ask for forgiveness, but rarely are they really sorry. They are often sorry for getting caught but not for the actual harm they do.
Lets take the person who cheats on their partner and gets found out. Yes, they may say they are sorry and ask for forgiveness, but are they just sorry they got caught or really sorry for the pain they caused? Or sorry to be in a bad situation because the person they had the affair with wasn’t all that hot in bed to be in hot water?
So asking for forgiveness isn’t as easy as people think. There has to be pure motives behind it.

@digitalimpression and @Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard – I think @elbanditoroso was trying to communicate that for many of us, quotes from the bible without interpretation appear to be vacuous or just gibberish. It would be more useful to provide a quote along with your interpretation of the quote for those of us who are not able to make any sense of such things.

@tom_g, I understand, and that’s what I tried to do here, I suppose.

@tom_g – thank you, that is exactly what I meant.

@Pandora , Just what are pure motives? Suppose that a person’s primary motive is to avoid damnation? Would that be pure?

If I believed in heaven and hell, I would act like a saint. I would not want to take any risk of not being saved. My brief life on earth, after all, is just a tryout for the afterlife. Besides, the Apocalypse is right around the corner. No sense worrying about what happens here. The important thing is to cover my butt. I contend that is a perfectly rational way to behave and that anyone who says I am not pure in my motives is being unfair in their judgment.

No one can know exactly how this all works. We just do the best we can and hope for the best. We trust we’ll be treated fairly and that’s all we really can do. If only the answer could be typed out on Fluther for you and you’d be satisfied but it is not going to happen. You won’t find your answers here.

I guess that makes Fluther a “Q & ” site. :/

The way I learned it in Catholic school, i.e. “Barney style” was that you need to be sincerely sorry for your sin. The reason you should feel sorry wasn’t because you would go to hell, that’s not good enough. You need to be repentant and you need to resolve to do better and yes, God is omnipotent so he can see into your heart and know what’s there. In fact, it’s much easier to fool yourself than it is to fool God.

Another reason to feel sorry was because I just know you atheists out there are going to love this because your sinning hurt Jesus/God. This was the child education friendly way of saying that by sinning you have severed your relationship with God. In addition to the damage you inflicted on human lives and this world this was what was so bad about it. Because God loves you and wants the best for you.

The act of Contrition was the prayer that lays it out:

Act of Contrition

O my God, I am heartily sorry for
having offended thee, and I detest
all my sins, because of Thy just
punishments, but most of all because
they offend Thee, my God, who art
all-good and deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve, with the help of
Thy grace, to sin no more and to
avoid the near occasion of sin.

I’m still having problems with avoiding the near ocassion of sin, temptation is so everywhere!

This is how I was taught. I have evolved my own way of looking at things. Strictly speaking I am not Catholic anymore.

So far as I know, there is only one sin which will not be forgiven: the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Keep in mind that forgiveness comes only after true repentance, which is revulsion toward your former actions, and turning away from them to righteousness.

A person asking for forgiveness on his deathbed does not have a lot of opportunity to turn toward righteousness.

They seem to believe that they can be forgiven for ANYTHING except denying the existence of God, or Jesus, or the Holy Spirit (the Holy Trinity). Doing this is considered to be a one way trip to Hell with no ‘Get out of Hell free’ card.

@Linda_Owl Who is the “they” you are referring to? All christians? You are very wrong if you assume that all Christians think or believe the same way.

I am not Christian but what I learned growing up Catholic and what I learned in the years I was studying Protestant faiths don’t really square with one another.

Growing up I learned that if I miss church on Sunday or went to communion after missing church on Sunday, or did any number of other things’ I was booking myself a ride on the Hell Express. At the same time though I learned of this place called Purgatory where I would hang out after I died until I had done penance for all of my sins. To go along with this I was told that every time I prayed I had to pray for the “poor souls in Purgatory” because it was my prayers that set them free to head on up to Heaven. I was taught the difference between mortal and venial sins and that my time in Purgatory only worked for one not the other. I am not even sure if Catholics believe in Purgatory any more.

What I learned from Protestant faiths is that Jesus died for everyone’s sins and as long as one believes in Jesus Christ they will be forgiven. I even heard of one group that believes that as long as someone says they accept Jesus Christ as their savior they are forgiven – even if they don’t mean it.

I am not bashing Christians here but I found the whole thing rather confusing. When I identified as Christian here’s where I settled: 1) There is no Purgatory; 2) Sins are sins, some are worse than others but missing mass then going to communion without going to confession is not going to get me banished; 3) Jesus died for my sins but in order for that to work for me I have to be sincerely remorseful for what I have done and do my best to learn from my mistakes and not make them again and I have to truly accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and not just pay it lip service.

It depends upon the denomination and individual Christian that you’re referring to. In fact even those Christians that would be labeled as fundamentalists seem divided on these types of issues. I grew up in a church going family that was divided between their own beliefs.

Some Christians believe that faith is everything, faith that we are all sinners and that Jesus died to offer us salvation. According to the beliefs of the latter type of Christians I’ve just described works have little or no meaning whether a person is ‘saved’ or not since we all fall short of the glory of God. Obviously these types of Christians would believe that any offense can be forgiven as long as the person truly accepted the salvation that Jesus offered.
There are other Christians who believe that you need both faith and works. Also many Christians seem divided between whether somebody can lose their ‘salvation’ or not. There is also contention among Christians about whether baptism is necessary or not.

Obviously there is no certain way to answer this since many Christians that I’ve known seem divided amonst themselves about their own beliefs. Many Christians and denominations will have different interpretations of the Bible as well.

I have an, as yet, untapped idea. Our belief in what God can or cannot do does not limit Him from doing it. The Hebrew word for God actually means the “Self Existing One”. Having made this point. I would also like to point out that forgiveness follows repentance, and repentance is a gift from God. So the question that is really being asked is does God grant repentance to just anyone? The question is answered, no. Judas was sorry for betraying Christ, however he was called a devil and the son of perdition (unforgiven). Sorrow for action does not guarantee repentance and forgiveness. God can give repentance to anyone He chooses to, but it is entirely up to Him. I believe that true repentance is never too late, but late repentance is seldom if ever true.

If you are a believer then you believe what want regarding redemption.

If you are not a believer then you believe what you want regarding redemption.

What I don’t understand is why so many are so busy trying to convince the others the error of their beliefs? Why does this debate go on and on?

@chyna I grew up attending various churches (both Protestant & Catholic) & all of these “Christians” acknowledged that the one thing that you could/would NOT be forgiven for was denying the existence of God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. I tried for years to find something in religion that I could hold on to, but reality finally caused me to realize that it was all a myth, designed to control the ‘true believers’ & keep the tithes coming in. @rooeytoo this debate continues because the religious elements keep insisting that theirs is the only path to follow & frequently these religious elements are quite condescending to those of us who are no longer believers & after awhile we have to voice our opinion(s).

@Linda_Owl, ahh but there are also many atheists who “keep insisting theirs is the only path to follow” and who are also “quite condescending” to those of us who remain believers. You will notice that the majority of Fluther questions dealing with this subject are asked by non-believers who proceed to skewer believers who jump into the thread. I know this first hand as I have been skewered many times. So you see, both sides perpetuate the discussion.

I suppose it depends on the branch of Christianity. Does anyone know of any particular branch that believes that God refuses to forgive certain things?
But I’m pretty sure that mostly, God forgives anything, you just gotta really want, and mean it.

@tom_g The quote I provided was in English. I can’t do much better than that. If we were to get down to brass tacks it seems that the question is about Christianity, but I’m expected not to use the bible. If that’s the case then we’re hamsters on a wheel right now. It might be a fun ride, but we’re ultimately not going to get anywhere.

@digitalimpression I don’t think anyone was complaining that you were quoting from the bible – I think they just wanted to know what your interpretation of the passages was, and how they answer the question.

What I’ve read into what you’ve posted is that a person is forgiven any sin if god looks into his heart and sees that he is sincerely repentant. Is that what you meant?

There is a difference between what Catholics believe and what other Christians believe, generally. Catholics believe that you can buy absolution, and that you need to confess to a priest. Other Christians believe that forgiveness is a free gift of God. This is the biblical position. 1 John 1:9 says “If we confess our sins (in context to God, not to a priest), He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” There is no classification of sin here. There is nothing I can do that God won’t forgive me for.

@SuperMouse I was going to say the same thing, the shove-their-theory-down-your-throaters are on both sides of the aisle as far as I can see.

@digitalimpression: “The quote I provided was in English. I can’t do much better than that.”

Yes, you can. Think of it this way – if you were a physicist and you wanted to explain a complex subject to the average person, you wouldn’t explain it using the same English words you would use to discuss the topic with your colleagues. You would provide some explanation in a way that makes sense to the non-physicists.

It’s important to understand that for many of us, the bible reads like it’s the product of a random text generator. Sure, the quote was translated into English words, but the content is entirely beyond my comprehension. That’s where your interpretation becomes critical.

I think this is an important point. Nobody is telling you not to quote the bible. Just be aware, however, that a post that just contains a bible quote is as useful to me (and many others) as something like this, “cat hand dog tree wide open while blue”. I was brought up a Catholic (New England-style), so we just didn’t read the bible. There are others here who have had no exposure to bible-speak.

Thank you all for your answers. I apologize for having trouble resisting my sarcastic tendencies. My intentions really were good. It seems that there are differing interpretations of how much a person can be forgiven. I am a bit surprised to find the Catholic church holding onto its old ways. I thought that the Vatican had finally concluded, long after the Reformation, that Martin Luther did in fact have a few valid criticisms and that faith alone was not sufficient.