Most blacks are killed by other blacks. Why so much concern over George Zimmerman?

I think the media makes the circus. I don’t understand who and why they choose who they do. Why Caylee Anthony and not the hundreds of other little kids that have gone missing.

@chyna

Great answer! : )

Can you give us some references for your statistics, please.

The fact is a boy is dead, and the killer is walking free. Had the races of the victim and perpetrator been reversed, the outcome would be very different, I believe.

That was Tuesday’s conservative misdirection trying to deflect attention from obvious botched and biased police conduct.

Seriously, if you look back in the news, Tuesday was “But THEY kill each other by the thousands!” day among conservatives.

It’s transparent to normal people and especially disgusting that it’s framed as a concern for black victims of violence.

I strongly suspect that one of the main reasons this has stirred such a storm of controversy is that the police didn’t arrest Zimmerman. That definitely sends the wrong message.

I really think this has less to do with the Mr. Zimmerman’s nationality than it does with the fact that Mr. Martin’s parents specifically and Floridians in general, along with a good amount of the citizenry of the US don’t think Mr. Zimmerman should get away with it by claiming it was self-defense. After seeing the man who killed their son walk free, Mr. Martin’s parents decided to go public with their story in an effort to get some justice for their son. I don’t blame them, I would want the same thing if my child was murdered in cold blood.

The real question in my mind is why @Rock2 is so set on making this about nothing but race. Yes people do care about murder victims, whatever their color and whatever the color of the perpetrator. In most of these cases however the police make an effort to find the offender and have him/her brought to justice rather than bringing him in then letting him go. It seems @Rock2, that you are the one interested in riling white and black people against one another.

Many years ago I used to see bumper stickers reading “stop black-on-black crime.”

My guess these others (remember the NYC subway vigilante Bernard Goetz?} are so much more upsetting because they might also include elements of hate crime and even unconsious racial profiling.

Those of you who feel totally unbiased [at least consciously] should try the test at Harvard’s Project Implicit You might be surprised at the results. Then read this article where Mahzarin Banaji, the original researcher and developer of the bias tests, talks about her own results in the test, among other things.

Who will be brave enough to post their own results?

http://www.liberalorder.com/2012/03/juan-williams-on-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin-and-on-black-on-black-crime.html

I think people are upset a young man was killed more than anything. That he seemed targeted, pursued, and confronted by someone who should have left things up to the authorities. Someone, Zimmerman, who seemed happy to carry his gun and use it. I have no idea if that is really Zimmerman’s attitude, but I know enough gun people to know enough of them feel just fine about shooting who they perceive as a bad guy. Don’t get me wrong, I support self defense, and even shooting a theif on my property trying to get in, but this is beyond that.

Black on black crime has more to do with gangs and drugs. People tend to look at that as if you are mixed up in drugs or participating in gangs, you are part of the problem. And, part of the risk is you might get killed. We still care when a young person, or any person dies, but we are also annoyed, disgusted, and fearful of the criminal behavior in general.

http://www.delmarvanow.com/article/20120331/OPINION01/203310347/Walter-Williams-Blacks-must-own-up-high-crime-rates?odyssey=nav%7Chead

And most whites are killed by other whites. What is your point?

Zimmerman was arrested. He was brought to the police station in handcuffs. That’s an arrest. He wasn’t charged because there was insufficient evidence that a crime had been committed. It is not uncommon for charges to be delayed while the investigation takes place. And there may never be any charges. That’s what a Grand Jury or the prosecutor will determine. At this point the whole thing has become a political lynching. I have no idea if Zimmerman deserves it or not but lynching Zimmerman to make a political point or a racial point is not in our best interest.

@Jaxk the truth is that until this situation was made public, there wasn’t going to be an investigation. Therein lies the problem.

People do care about those other deaths. That there are no marches does not prove that no one cares. What makes the news, however, are particularly shocking and tragic incidents. These are also what brings out the marchers. Many deaths are senseless, and many get their own small vigils. National attention is reserved for when something particularly egregious appears to have happened.

Or is it just that some people make money riling blacks against whites?

People like who? Jews? You sound like you’re about to start talking about our dreaded ZOG…

It’s a story that caught on and now it’s not going away. The perfect media storm that the mainstream crave if nothing more than to prop up ratings. A similar thing did happen in Fl where a black guy gunned down a white war vet at a tennis court. Not too many people pissed about that?

There is a race war getting heated up even more, that a lot of people would want to see erupt. Hell on CNN there was a person saying the Hispanics don’t count as a real race? They should be lumped in with the whites. Really? They want this to be a white on black crime so desperately that they are willing to do away with the Hispanic identity to cut right to the chase. I live in an area where there is a big Hispanic population and I can assure everyone that they are a race unto themselves. Ask any Hispanic be they Cuban, Mexican or whatever. They’ll set you straight. I gotta admit myself before I got what details there were available the the name “Zimmerman” sounded kind of “jewey”
They aren’t black, or Asian or native American by any stretch, and they damn sure can’t be confused with Caucasians. The person speaking was obviously a twist but that is the caliber of “experts” that these news orgs with seek out in order to stir the turd. Garbage in Garbage out.

There is a race war getting heated up even more

There is? Are you preparing for it? Tell us more about it, please.

All it needs is a spark. Assuming there is a trial and all this posturing to date has made it ripe for any halfway accomplished defense atty to motion for a mistrial ,ergo not guilty verdict. Watch what happens. Since I don’t live anywhere near Fla, I don’t plan on doing shit about it…do you?

@anartist I did the Race IAT and came out with a moderate automatic preference for Black people compared to White people. I’m in the 4% range. I am white. What this means, nothing more than I already knew, lol.

This isn’t about statistics, full-stop. I think reducing to such a statistic borders on racism to me. I don’t think race should have ANYTHING to do with this, except to show prejudice on the part of the shooter. The reason this story has ‘caught on’ is because of it has almost served to take the countries temperature, so-to-speak, in regards to current laws (Stand your ground, concealed weapons), vigilantism, and yes, most definitely, racism.

America is starting to look more and more like South Africa to the rest of the world. One set of rules for white people and quite another for those of colour.

Anyone see this story as well? Two cops killing a black man in his own home, they were meant to be responding to a medical call. http://www.democracynow.org/2012/3/29/killed_at_home_white_plains_ny

Maybe it’s because it is not the norm and gives those who want to keep the hate going with regard to black white in the country fuel to do that. It was inappropriate for the president of the country to make a public statement about it unless he is going to give a daily comment on all of the murders in the country of that day. I often marvel that the media will pick out one murder and make a huge circus out of it while thousands of murders happen and no one knows about it outside of the immediate area. I agree that there seems to be something wrong with the way the police have behaved down there. I think the new state attorney will get to the bottom of it. After all, this is career maker for her.

@Rock2: “Why so much concern over George Zimmerman?”

You are not asking this question. You just aren’t. You are making a statement over and over, but wrapping it in a question. When people respond and tell you why they are concerned about this case, you brush it off and tell us that we’re ‘being played’.

Can anyone name a black man who was killed by a black man? Why not?

@Rock2 – Simba Martin.

Dude, this is really starting to sound like this.

@woodcutter Hispanic is not a race, it is a group or ethnicity or even culture. Hispanic has to do with the country someone is from, not their race. There are white Hispanics, black Hispanics, Indian/native American Hispanics. My husband is Hispanic, his national background is 50% Israeli, 25% Spanish, 25% French. If his grandparents had emigrated to America he would simply be white according to how the US classifies people. There are Russian-Mexicans who would be considered Hispanic by us, white Hispanics, as pale white as me with my Russian and Latvian background.

@woodcutter See questions 7 and 8 on the census. Hispanic is separate from race. Not that the census is the end all be all. We say African American to be synonomous with black, and of course there are white people in Africa.

It’s fascinating to me that this has become a conservative vs. liberal issue. Maybe conservatives most easily relate to Zimmerman in this story: a man taking up arms to safeguard the privileged way of life against some shadowy threat. Ever vigilant, our hero forcefully challenges whatever matches his idea of what that threat looks like.

The fact that this all went terribly wrong forces conservatives into an uncomfortable choice: admit that there’s a fundamental flaw in this way of thinking, or try to frame the reaction to it as yet another attack by the shadowy threat. Mental habits die hard.

@thorninmud I think it is a case of self identifying with Zimmerman. Conservatives tend to be in favor of very lax gun laws, and tend to listen to a lot of the talk about gun rights. Then there is someone like me who believes in the right to bear arms, I am pretty liberal on most issues though. I also can identify with being terrified by an attacker and wanting a gun to be able to shoot him dead if he is going to physically harm me, but I personally would be freaked to carry or fire a gun. It does not make me feel happy or powerful, but sad to think it could be necessary. I prefer living in my bubble fantasy of nonviolence.

I also can identify with being a minority, and having things assumed about me. I certainly don’t want to wind up dead because of how I am dressed or the color of my skin, or my religion, or whatever. But, I also am in favor of profiling, I don’t see how we can’t profile. I just think profiling is for possibly closer survellience, not for harrassing.

@all I just heard the police waited three days for the police to let Martin’s parents know his body was in the morgue, that he was dead. Is that true? Did you hear the same?

Why do we care? Because this situation implies that it is now legal to:

- profile someone as suspicious and potentially dangerous based purely on their looks
– follow that person until the person feels uncomfortable
– pursue that person when the person attempts to leave the situation
* (after being told by authorities not to pursue)
– confront that person and demand information
– kill that person when met with resistance

The Zimmerman backers have repeatedly referenced the freedom to defend ones self, while ignoring the freedom to walk home from a convenient store without having some gun-wielding stranger pursue and demand information from you.

@GladysMensch Excellent!

@Rock2 Can anyone name a black man who was killed by a black man? Why not?

What exactly does this have to do with George Zimmerman killing Trayvon Martin? To my mind, absolutely nothing.

@SuperMouse I think the point is the media gets more viewers when there is a possibility of racism in a crime. Also it implies no one cares if blacks kill each other. Someone cares if a white man kills a black man. Someone cares if a black man killed a white man, but black on black is sort of silent. Not sure if the black community prefers attention not be brought to those crimes? I have no idea. And, also implied is the white community just sees that crime as a matter of course. Where I live there is a lot of black on black murders. It is reported in my local news to some extent, but usually not picked up by the national media.

********************************************************************************
A lot of people commenting on this question are ignoring the real question.

It is not wither or not we care about the Trayvon/Zimmerman case, most people do. It is:
“WHY DO PEOPLE CARE MORE ABOUT THE TRAYVON CASE THAN ABOUT ALL OF THE BLACK ON BLACK CRIME?”

Emphasis on the word “MORE”.

@Rock2 I really think you are missing the point here. It is not about whether Mr. Zimmerman is black or Hispanic. It is about whether or not Mr. Zimmerman is able to get away with murder by calling it self-defense.

@SuperMouse
I think that it is you who are missing the point. See my last post.

@Rock2 I did answer your question. The media chooses who to make a headline case out of. From there, it becomes a media frenzy. This case certainly is deserving of the headlines though. The case, to me, is why Mr. Zimmerman hasn’t had charges against him. It wouldn’t matter if he were white or black, this is a case of murder against innocence.

@chyna
If you care about black people why are you more interested in this case than all of the black on black murders which by far outnumber any white on black murders?

I thought I did answer the question. If people perceive black on black as criminals killing criminals, they don’t bother paying as much attention or caring.

@Rock2 how do you know whether @chyna or anyone else in this thread cares less about black on black crime than they do about this case? Umm, yeah you don’t. The fact of the matter is this is the case being discussed and whether or not people are concerned about black on black murder is immaterial to the case.

@SuperMouse
Nothing happens in a vacuum. Everything must be taken a part of a larger picture. The media are covering this crime as much as they are because it fits a narriative they want to push. They want to paint America as a racist country that can only be fixed by voting Democrats into office. Can’t you see that you are being played?

@Rock2 you are sorely mistaken my friend. I’m not interested in Mr. Zimmerman walking away after murdering a young man – no matter his color. Not being played, just interested in justice.

@Rock2 I find it very sad that this event is divided along political lines. I don’t feel played. I do feel the media gives attention to things in an uneven unfair way sometimes. The Zimmerman case is not just a possible race issue, it is much more than that.

Back during slavery part of the reason Southern Americans chose to buy black slaves over indentured servants from Europe was because if they tried to leave, people in the community could easily spot and question a black man in town or leaving town unnaccompanied by his owner. If everyone was white, it would be harder to know who the slaves/property was by a glance. Martin being a black man in a white neighborhood put him in a similar situation of being suspected because “his kind” are typically not seen in that community. But, that does not make him necessarily a criminal, so people are horrified about what happened. Do I have to worry when my husband walks through our neighborhood because he is the only Hispanic for miles? If he cuts along the path that travels behind the houses, and admiringly looks at someones garden? Or, choice of paint color on the exterior of their house? Look, the kid could have been up to no good, but what happened was horrific, so over the top, that once it started getting reported the story took on a life of its own.

There is an element of desensitization in the face of overwhelming problems. The same thing happens in wartime. Deaths that would shock us in peacetime become so commonplace that numbness sets in. When we hear the personal stories of individual soldiers killed in small conflicts, we feel moved to tears. When we hear about 3 marines being killed in a large-scale war, we don’t blink. That’s the way we are, for better or for worse.

I live in Chicago, one of the most segregated cities. The reports of murders and collateral casualties in the black and hispanic neighborhoods are so common that the individual victims get lost in the torrent. It’s been proven that people don’t connect emotionally to statistics, but to stories. The violence coming out of impoverished urban areas is virtually always presented as impersonal data. We rarely hear about the person behind the number.

Gang violence in big cities has become an overwhelming problem—it’s hard to see what we can do stop it. It’s not that we don’t care, we just don’t know what to do. That too makes us numb.

Killing for racial reasons has begun to look like a more manageable problem. We allow ourselves to imagine that maybe we can get a handle on it. There seems to be a momentum toward finally ending it. That makes us more willing to commit emotionally to that cause.

It’s a little like how we view disease: Malaria kills unbelievable numbers of people each year, but we get overwhelmed when we think about what it would take to end it. As a result, those deaths don’t raise nearly as much alarm as would a couple of deaths from smallpox, even though dead is dead.

In the Martin/Zimmerman case, we have stories on which to hang our emotions. We’re also alarmed to see a flaw in our system that might allow an old but subdued enemy to make a comeback.

@SuperMouse
Why are you MORE interested in justice for in case and not the in others I have mentioned?

@Rock2 as a matter of course the crimes you are pointing out are investigated with the goal of bringing the perpetrator to justice. In this case, without the public outcry that wouldn’t have happened. You are seriously the one being played here because you are flat out insisting that this be made to be about race.

@thorninmud
Great answer but I don’t believe the situation is hopeless. The solutions are obvious but because people make political careers out of race they don’t want to discuss it. Some blacks do but they are not supported much by the Democratic Black Caucus. In fact, they are attacked everytime they open their mouths.

In New York last year more black babies were aborted than born. Abortion Doctors are the greatest killers of blacks in America. The black father raising a family in America is an endangered species. The coverage of the Trayvon case is another attempt to keep our eye off of the ball.

@Rock2
Justice is not the question. You have a 10,000 lb elephant in the room and you are ignoring it to talk about justice.

@Rock2 More black babies were aborted than born in NY? What does that have to do with anything? I don’t know if that stat is true, but even if it is….so?

In New York last year more black babies were aborted than born. Abortion Doctors are the greatest killers of blacks in America. The black father raising a family in America is an endangered species. The coverage of the Trayvon case is another attempt to keep our eye off of the ball.

I’m confused @Rock2 as to what you perceive to be the agenda here? You spout statistics that show more blacks dying, yet you seem to be saying that focusing on a black child getting killed is just “an attempt to keep our eye off the ball”. No need to mince your words, tell us exactly what you think, because to me, it is coming out garbled.

@chyna
Why are most blacks dying?

@Rock2 Are you equating a woman ending a pregnancy to a man killing another man? The abortion statistics only really tells us that black people maybe should be using more birth control. They are not aborting their pregnancies under threat of guns to their heads.

@Rock2 you do not seem to be interested in the Trayvon Martin case as much as you are interested in spouting statistics about crime and abortion. What is your agenda here? Because it certainly has nothing to do with the question you asked.

Why are right wingers so obsessed with black abortion rates? I don’t know exactly where you stand politically or how you identify yourself @Rock2, but if we look at populations, probably the best thing for the better success of blacks in America is controlling births. It would be better with birth control than abortion, everyone would agree with that. Typically the most successful groups on financial, education, and other measures control their fertility and have low birth rates. Reinforce black people and the poor having tons of babies and it is almost the same as effectively keeping them down.

What we see here people is how the liberal agenda has been exposed by one brave conservative who is unafraid to tell THE TRUTH!!

Obviously Trayvon Martin was murdered by thousands of black doctors who are enraged that Trayvon’s welfare-queen mother refused to allow them to abort the boy.

Then they set up a man named Zimmerman as the fall guy, which backfired because, as conservatives will tell you (again and again and again and again), hispanics are not white.

They also planted a gun on Zimmerman to bolster the UN-led operation to disarm white American gun owners. Which was another glaring mistake, because everyone knows guns don’t kill people – black people kill people.

I’m not sure where the gays are in the conspiracy, but I’m sure they’ll show up soon.

@jaytkay Seems legit. I think it checks out.

Am I the only one that gets a nasty feeling when ‘black’ and ‘white’ people are referred to as blacks and whites?
Or is this linguistically correct and am I too sensitive in this?

@rebbel black people and white people sounds nicer, but I find it so much easier to not worry about being so PC when it is obvious where people stand in a discussion. I don’t mind if people say Jews, I use it, even though some people find that offensive.

No, I don’t think you’re overly sensitive, @rebbel. Just enough, I’d say. My personal preference is to call them all just “people”, but I know that that is also not going to fly.

@CWOTUS This seems very appropriate right now.

@janbb Very good.

@rebbel Yeah, it’s the tone. When you usually hear someone actually say the terms, it sounds worse. It’s the same with the term “Mexicans”. Most of the time, when an American is using the word “Mexicans” something ignorant will be said lol.

@Blackberry Funny about that, because my husband and I find it so odd that people use Mexican in a derogatory way. So much so people are afraid to call my husband Mexican, which he is.

@JLeslie Yeah, people kind of ruined the word. Apparently anyone with bronze skin comes from Mexico….What does your husband think of that?

We are splitting hairs on the Hispanic/ Latino thing. They are NOT Caucasoids at all. There may be one in a million who would personally identify with whites but in general you would be insulting them to suggest they should. It’s not controversial enough to talk about Hispanic on black crime, its a big yawn. Anyway how should it matter who was what race or another? And to try to simplify it down to make them white for the purpose of homicide is race baiting. Solely for the purpose of stirring up even more hate if that is possible. It’s not we who are being played, it’s the mainstream media who are being used to spread this pap about. But they don’t concern themselves with that because they have sponsors to pay.

@jaytkay nailed it.

@Blackberry He thinks it is ignorant and stupid, and so do I. When I went to college, this was way back in the late 80’s, I had friends who called my Ecuadorian boyfriend Mexican. I would correct them. I had one of my close friends say, “well, you know, south of the border.” No, I didn’t know, it made no sense. I had no clue at all people were using Mexican like the word Hispanic, I just thought they were clueless about geography and the world.

Only in the last few years did someone explain to me “Mexican” is derogatory to some. We still think it is stupid. My husband and I will never accept that national origin is something to be ashamed of or hidden. If people call Panamanians Mexican, that’s just dumb. To me it is like calling me a Canadian.

@Rock2 I think it is AWESOME that you want to heighten awareness of ALL crime and injustices against African Americans, and not just this one.

How do you plan to go about that? Are you organizing any marches? Please keep me informed so I can follow and assist your campaign.

I find the term “blacks” mildly offensive. It seems to me that white people are almost never referred to as simply “whites”. They’re always “white people”.

I think I’ll spend the day referring to every white person I see as “a white”, or group of them, as “whites”. I wonder how many funny looks I’ll get.

@FutureMemory Good point. Let us know how that goes.

@GoldieAV16
Just by bringing up the topic I’ve done more than you.

Organized marches have lost their effectiveness.

Why don’t you post questions about how to stop black on black crime instead of paying so much attention to the Trayvon case. You will be helping to save more blacks.

@Rock2 it is kind of a huge leap to say you have done more then @GoldieAV16 unless you know this person in real life. Just saying…

@Rock2 How would you stop black on black crime? Tighten up gun laws? Pay teens if they get through high school without getting pregnant? Random drug tests in schools? More police presence in crime ridden neighborhoods? Harsher jail terms for those caught? Make it illegal to be in a gang? Legalize drugs? Better education?

@SuperMouse
Oh, I know Goldie.

@Rock2 So this question was the extent of your concern and effort? And the only way you could think of to frame the issue was to put it up against a murder that you don’t think warrants attention?

I can tell you right now your campaign isn’t going anywhere.

@SuperMouse Rock doesn’t know me at all in real life. All he knows is that LIBRULS ARE BAD!

That’s why I said that @jaytkay nailed it with his post that began, “What we see here people is how the liberal agenda has been exposed by one brave conservative who is unafraid to tell THE TRUTH!!”

@JLeslie
Attitudes in the black society must change. Blacks have to stop listening to Al Sharpton, Jessy Jackson, Lewis Ferrican, and MSNBC and start listening to Thomas Sowel, Walter Williams, and to a lesser extent Juan Williams.

It has long been established and I hold this to be self evident that the best way to stay out of poverty and all the problems associated with it is to at a minimum:
1. Graduate from High school
2. Get a job
3. Get married to a person who has done 1 & 2
4. Don’t have children until you have done 1, 2, & 3.

What you tolerate you get more of.
Blacks have to not tolerate situations as they are.
It’s all in the attitude.

@Rock2 Actually, @GoldieAV16 makes a great point. Start a new Q asking how to fix black on black crime, and see the answers you get.

@Rock2 you are truly a genius when it comes to solving social problems. Get to it spreading your gospel!~

@GoldieAV16
The response to the Trayvon killing is part of the problem. Libs believe that all whites are racists, and anything a black wants to do is justified because all whites are racists. Blacks will never solve the black on black murders until that belief is changed.

Complaining about the Trayvon case won’t help any black.

@SuperMouse
Sarcasm and mocking will not solve anything.

Just by bringing up the topic I’ve done more than you.

Typing on the Internet is like being Gandhi plus Martin Luther King. Everyone knows this.

@Rock2 Dude, did you even share Kony 2012 on facebook?

@Rock2 neither will racism or over-simplified, untenable solutions. @Blackberry LOL!

@Rock2 Libs think all whites are racist? That is a ridiculous statement. There are white liberals, you believe they think themselves racist?

I understand your point that there are much bigger problems for the black community than some racist white or Hispanic guy with a gun. Parts of the black community, not all black people. Really it is a social class issue more than race.

@Rock2 out of curiosity have you used the simple steps you outlined to overcome systemic, crushing poverty and pervasive racism?

@Rock2 To be serious, this type of change doesn’t happen overnight. People are rising from poverty all the time regardless of color. We can’t just go to poverty stricken areas all over the world and tell the kids to just get out of their situation.

> Libs believe that all whites are racists

Whoa, dude. I think you might be revealing more crazy here than you intended.

Brakes, brakes.

1 minute and counting until the next “you’re being played”…

Anyone want popcorn?

@Rock2 Most liberals probably would agree that completing high school, getting a job, raising a child in a two parent household are steps to a more prosperous life lived in a safer environment. That is not a liberal conservative division. If you mean that black people in those neighborhoods think the way they are going about things is just fine that is a separate issue. Most people agree there needs to be some sort of cultural shift to fix some of these problems. I would assume even most black people in those neighborhoods would agree, want better for their children. I don’t really know how black people in the ghetto really think about these things.

I know that for the first time in my life I know more teens and unmarried 20 year olds with babies than I have ever known in my entire life living here in Memphis area now. All white. The bible belt has babies it seems to me, although I have no idea of the real statistics across the country. Anyway, more black people live in the south, so maybe that skews the numbers? There is probably more poverty in the south too. Although, the people I know, a few of them grew up middle class. I also know black people born out of wedlock who are my age here, and when I worked at a hospital many of the patients were unwed mothers black and white.

Here is a map by county of unwed parents. Looks like the south is a little heavy, and then a part of the upper midwest. Anyway, the “red” areas of the political map line up with some of the states with unwed parents. The more liberal areas seem to have less as a state.

@Rock2 You are merely spewing the views of FoxNews. You really should form your own ideas.

@jaytkay
Sarcasm and mocking will not solve anything. And it is not appealing.

@JLeslie
Good responses. That two of us that support the right thing.

@chyna
Fox News got their ideas from me.

@Rock2 The “right” thing?

@Rock2 holy sh!t! Are you Glenn Beck right here on Fluther? Roger Ailes? Karl Rove?

Here is a map by county of unwed parents. Looks like the south is a little heavy, and then a part of the upper midwest.

New England certainly has its share, especially by the Canadian border.

@jaytkay Yeah, it’s all over, no question. The midwest very dark blue surprised me. I do wonder if those areas that do have more unwed pregnancies are evangelical? Parts of the northeast are very conservative. Liberal or conservative, they might have more babies because they are less likely to abort. Where I live, in my county, a large portion of the democrat voting block is very conservative on social issues and religious. And, the poverty question also, are the darker shades of blue in poorer areas?

The midwest very dark blue surprised me

Reservations.

For example, see Ziebach County South Dakota

@jaytkay Interesting.

We live in a society full of egos that need to be boosted by putting the spotlight on scapegoats. Just think, a society where people actually had the ability to look in the mirror and point to themselves as being a part of the problem instead of looking for scapegoats. Unfortunately political correctness is more important than the truth.

I wouldn’t read too much into that graph of county-by-county “single parent” thing. For one thing, we know that the incidence of divorce is pretty high in the USA, so that’s going to add to the overall blue color of the map. “Divorced parents” are only “unwed” in a very technical sense. For another thing, “marriage” itself isn’t as de rigeur as it once was, and a lot of couples happily cohabit and raise kids but are as fully committed to each other as any of our Ozzie and Harriet parents may have been.

It’s an “interesting” graphic, but not very informative.

And it got us pretty far off topic, didn’t it?

@CWOTUS
I said before that no one wants to talk about the real problems. All they want to do is cry racism.

@Rock2 Except that you’re the only one crying racism. Everyone else is saying that this isn’t a racial matter. People are not upset about Trayvon Martin because it is a case of Hispanic-on-black crime. People are upset because Zimmerman almost got away with murder without even being investigated.

If I remember correctly, the term “black” was chosen by blacks in the 60s to replace the old word “Negro” and was actually considered positive when it came into use—along with the black power movement, black panthers, and a whole lot of other motivating, polarizing, and politicizing movements and concepts. This was not a negative word. White was just sort of there, a vague word, for a bunch of people.

Afro-American, later African American, came later and were seen as very politically correct but were cumbersome and stilted—lacking the “juice” of “black.”

@jaytkay what are there more of [or plenty of] in New England especially northern New England? Bastards? Or blacks? I spent my early childhood in New England. I never even saw a black person until I moved away from there. A lot of New England [especially away from cities and universities and military bases] may still be lily white.

@anartist That’s very true. I remember spending a Summer in Cape Cod when I was a teen…wall-to-wall whites.

@CWOTUS As far as I know single parents means baby born to unwed parents. Divorced and widowed parents are just that. In fact studies done about how well children are doing separate out these things, which is what we worry about most with parenting—how are the children doing. Divorced children tend to do almost as well as kids of married people from the studies I have readm the difference is minimal; while children of unwed/single parents have a much harder time. That particular map possibly does use a definition, so I’ll agree with you we need more information than that map.

@anartist There are towns all over America that are still lily white.

@JLeslie Can you list some of them? If we all work together we can stay on top of this.

@FutureMemory I only remember seeing white people in Elkhart Lake, WI when I was there. Oh, there was a black guy at the track with Porsche Club, but he did not live there. He is the only black guy I remember seeing at the track, I see him at other tracks around the country, and he is usually the only black guy there.

Also cities like Tequesta, FL, but the Hispanics are getting closer and closer.

Towns all over the midwest and parts of New England are still very white.

Where I live, my town is almost 100% white, my husband is one of the 10 Hispanics who live here, if that many, I have never met another Hispanic person who lives in my town, and there might be just as many black people. But, just 5 miles away the demographic changes a lot, and 20 miles away Memphis is 60% black, so as soon as I drive out of my town it is more diverse.

finishes popcorn and goes about her business

@FutureMemory I thought I would add, when I moved to MI in the late 80’s for college, it was so odd to me to be in such a white place. I had always grown up with lots of diversity, and I missed it. I was surprised I even noticed such a thing, because growing up I did not put much thought into whether someone was white, black, Hispanic, Asian, you name it. I had the whole world living where I lived. We all knew where each other was from, so we thought about it in that way, but I never thought about it in any way that mattered, it just was. When I was young and vacationed on the Cape or upstate NY, in retrospect I think everyone was pretty much white, but I did not notice at the time.

@SavoirFaire Exactly.

@SavoirFaire
You are just following the liberal news media’s lead. Where are you on black on black crime?

@Rock2 what exactly are the liberal media leading us poor uninformed citizenry in to believing? What exactly is the liberal media agenda behind doing such a dastardly deed to the lemmings? How have you escaped their spell? Where are you on black on black crime?

@JLeslie asked you a question, Rock. What is “the right thing”?

@SuperMouse has some good questions, too.

@SuperMouse

Answering a question with a question is not answering a question. You are picking up bad habits from Goldie.

Do you know any conservatives? Where do you get your information about conservatives? From Obama, NBC/MSNBC? Do you really believe that you have an exclusive line to the truth? That only you and other liberals can see it? Do you know any conservatives personally? Do they want dirty air and water? Do they want to kill old people? Do you think conservatives don’t want to give poor people health care? Really? How did you come to that conclusion?

Hahahahaha. That’s a lot of questions.

@Rock2

1. Yes I do know several conservatives.
2. I get my information about conservatives directly from the several conservatives I know personally and from paying attention to the agendas of conservative politicians.
3. I believe I have a very clear understanding of the facts and have used them to come to my own conclusion. Unlike most (if not all) of the conservatives I know, I am not spoon-fed garbage by the likes of Rush Limbaugh and that psycho conspiracy theorist Glenn Beck.
4. This question is redundant, see my answer to your first question.
5. Most of the conservatives I know could not care less about dirty air or water.
6. Most of the conservatives I know care about their own bottom line and if they kill, old folks, women and children in pursuit of wealth, so be it.
7. Most of the conservatives I know care about their own bottom line and if they kill women, children and old folks in their pursuit of wealth, so be it. To my mind attempting to keep people from the health care they need in order to line the pockets of big insurance is not caring about these people..
8. I have come to these conclusions about conservatives based on conversations with the conservatives I know and the actions of conservative law makers and judges.

Now it is your turn to answer questions. Your deliberate attempts at obfuscation just might indicate that you are unable to answer any of the questions posed to you.

@Rock2 Unlikely. I don’t read liberal news, and I don’t watch any television at all. Do you have anything real to contribute, or just ad hominem fallacies?

@SavoirFaire
How do you get both sides of the issue?

@Rock2: “How do you get both sides of the issue?”

Hopefully by identifying the fact that there is most likely way more than 2 sides to every “issue”. Reading also helps.

>Answering a question with a question is not answering a question.

No, it’s having a discussion. You’ve gotten quite a few answers to your question, and you just don’t like the cognitive dissonance of reality not aligning with FOX News. Oh well…

>You are picking up bad habits from Goldie.

If you start with personal insults, I will report it, and this site isn’t like Askville – they actually have moderators. Just giving you fair warning. Stick to the issue.

@SuperMouse
“Most of the conservatives I know care about their own bottom line and if they kill women, children and old folks in their pursuit of wealth, so be it.”

Seriously? Talk about profiling. Ever heard of anecdotal evidence?

Of course you don’t consider yourself extreme or mean spirited because only conservatives can be that right?

If that is what you think of conservatives then I can see why you hate me.

@Rock2 I use a variety of news sources, including international news.

You guys have “words” a’fore ya fell out? : )

@Rock2 I don’t think @SuperMouse (or anyone else, for that matter) has claimed to hate you. The vast majority of people here simply do not see this issue the same way you do. That does not imply hatred for you.

@JLeslie if you check national demographics you will find a markedly small percentage of blacks in New England, especially Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont, all of which still had less than 1 percent black population in 2000—Connecticut weighed in with highest New England percent at 8.

Conversely, a large black population lived/lives in the deep south, particularly in Alabama , Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia when black population percentages ranged from 25 to 35 percent in 2000.

Most likely, even over 200 years later, this population disparity relates to how blacks first came to this country. Those aforementioned southern states built their economies on cotton and sugar cane plantations from before the Revolutionary War up until the Civil War and afterwards.

My early childhood was spent in New Hampshire, thus my early lack of exposure to black persons was consistent with regional and statewide demographics—not just the random chance that I lived in an insular small town anywhere in the US.

Stats see census

@Rock2 If you must have a polemic, at least get your spelling right:
Jesse Jackson, Louis Farrakhan, Thomas Sowell. Nothing undermines an argument quite so much as a display of ignorance.

I do agree with you that I would never listen to anything Al Sharpton had to say, since he first came into the public eye as the perpetrator of the hate-inciting Tawana Brawley scandal. And I will always see him with his long greasy hair and his loud mouth trying to sow racial discord.

@anartist Did you mean to address @FutureMemory instead of me? I basically wrote what you did.

@anartist
I thought I did look up the spelling but I’ll take your word for it. Sometimes I get into a hurry.

I’m going to be more careful to get people to stick to the original question. Things get off track so fast here.

@Rock2 Oh, I was watching TV yesterday and they showed several clips of people on Fox and other conservative oriented shows asking your same question. But, they definitely seemed to be trying to change the conversation away from Zimmerman, I don’t think they really cared about black on black crime at all. I’m going to assume you were genuinely interested and not just trying to make the Zimmerman case into nothing, or change the topic so to speak like the spinmeisters.

@JLeslie
The Democrats and their friends In the media will say or do anything to get Obama reelected. Lie, cheat, steal, anything. Since Obama really doesn’t have anything positive to run on he will run on “things may be bad but Republicans are worse”.

One thing Dems do is control the discussion. They control what you see on tv each night. Everystory has one common thread: Obama good Republicans bad. Test my theory and see if I am right. Topics like: no paid birthcontrol for women, Republican war on women, Treyvon killed by white racist, evil supreme court,.. Wait to see the next.

Am I wrong?

I can tell you why the Martin case upsets me. No matter what color Martin was, no matter what color Zimmerman was, the fact that Zimmerman was doing his neighborhood watch stuff, had no need to exit his car, yet he did, and ended up shooting Martin. Add to that he didn’t get arrested, the local cops were sweeping it under the rug, until it was brought to national attention.

Also, I’m coming late to this party (and I was wanting popcorn until @janbb ate it all) but I see that @Rock2 has not answered any questions, just spews questions and comments of his own.

I also like how @Rock2 states that the way children should be birthed is from married parents. Is that written in a book somewheres? Cuz that’s not how I did it, and I am starting to feel upset that maybe I went about the whole birthing process the wrong way.

@jca you must understand, just like so many other conservative minions of commentators such as Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter, @Rock2 doesn’t answer questions, he just spouts the party line as fed to him by right wing pundits. I suppose it is just as well because even if @Rock2 did attempt to answer any of these questions he would more than likely be quoting Mr. Limbaugh or Mr. Rove without attribution and that is just wrong.

@jca
I will answer any question given me. If you have more than one please number them.

@Rock2: I see they’ve been asked throughout this thread already. You’ve been avoiding them.

@jca
Point one out.

@Rock2 I really don’t see the connection of being horrified by what Zimmerman did to voting for Obama. I’m white, and I think that kid could have been mine just as easily. The point was some crazy, psychotic, happy to use his gun, wants to have power, man, got out of his car when instructed not to, and killed that young man. I don’t even care if Martin made the first aggressive move when confronted by Zimmerman, Zimmerman had been following him, and I doubt Zimmerman approached Martin in a freindly manner. If anything the Republicans are the ones helping Obama if you want to look at it that way, because they should not be trying to defend Zimmerman, everyone should be calling for an investigation period. We should all be able to identify with one of our children being killed, and want to know the truth.

If I think there is racism in the country it does not affect whether I vote democrat or republican as long as the candidate is not a racist. I don’t think any of the Republican Presidential candidates are racist. I don’t know their stand on the NRA, somehow I doubt Romney and Santorum are big gun people themselves, I could be wrong, and I don’t know where they stand on gun laws, so I have no opinion on those candidates regarding those things, because I lack the knowledge right now to have an opinion.

@Rock2: “Point one out.”

I’m beyond asking if you’re just messing with us at this point. It doesn’t matter. Either bring your conversation quality out of the “you’re all being played” nonsense and bring some coherence, logic, and knowledge to these conversations. And when someone asks you a question, it’s annoying as shit to get this in response:

@Rock2: “If we were talking face to face I would go into all of the proof of what I say however I don’t think we can resolve this piece by piece on this blog.
I’ve been watching politics for many decades and I see what I see. I see that you have your mind made up. Just do me a favour and think about what I said once in a while.”

If your intention is to troll or something, this just isn’t the place. If you’re just trying out some ideas, just say so. There are some people here who hold some fairly conservative status quo positions that you might find appealing – but they’re able to at least present them in a logical way. They don’t claim that we’re “being played”, and they actually answer questions.

If you are really someone who is merely trying to express their political thoughts and are just not used to an environment that strives towards standards that are higher than youtube comments, just lurk for awhile. Check it out, do some research, breathe, and come back with a coherent argument.

@chyna You’ll note I didn’t offer to share my popcorn with him.

@janbb I noticed you didn’t share with me either!

Ok – enough of this shit; popcorn party at the Penguin’s!

@Rock2: @JLeslie asked you “What is the right thing?”

I was refering to concentrating more on the problem of black on black crime than the Trayvon case.

I never said that. I think it’s very important Trayvon’s case be investigated, and if the events are as they seem on the surface, that Zimmerman is prosecuted and locked up. I think black on black crime is problem also, but I never said one should be more focused on than the other, both are important, they are separate issues. I am not caught up in the possible racism in the Trayvon case, I am focused on some vigilante nut job committing a violent murder. I think if police officers had confronted Trayvon he never would have wound up dead.

@Rock2 there are many, many questions that have been posed to you on this thread. How about you pick one and get to it?

@SuperMouse
“there are many, many questions that have been posed to you on this thread”
There are questions and statements. How about you helping me out by pointing out a few that are important to you?

@JLeslie
Sorry if I misread you. Again, the main point of this question is that it will save more lives if people concentrate on solving the black on black crime rather than the Trayvon case. The Trayvon case will take care of itself but nobody in the major news media is addressing the black on black crime.

By the way, recent evidence in the Trayvon case indicates it wasn’t about race. But then Democrats wouldn’t have a “crisis” they could beat up on Republicans on could they?

@Rock2 ok here’s a question for you:

Do you believe that Trayvon Martin’s parents brought this situation to the media in order to give the Democrats a “crisis” they could use to beat up the Republicans? If yes, what has led you to believe this?

If you are up for a second question, what is this recent evidence that suggests the killing was not about race?

@SuperMouse
Somewhere in Detroit and Los Angeles and New York and Philadelphia are mothers of black sons who were murdered by other blacks and those mothers can’t get the time of day from the major news outlets.

Now that some of the Trayvon case audio tapes have been cleaned up, it sounds like Zimmerman was saying “Cold” ,which it was that night, not “coon”. That was the only evidence they had that it was racial to begin with.
Now if it is not racial, the federal government has no right to be involved and Obama need not have commented on a local police matter when he didn’t know the facts. Notice that you never hear Obama complain about black on black crime.

>By the way, recent evidence in the Trayvon case indicates it wasn’t about race.

The ONLY person that I’ve heard argue that it ever was about race is you, @Rock2.

So are you now saying that everyone else on this discussion has been right all along?

@Rock2: I said above that I didn’t think it was about race, BUT I have heard the audio tapes and I heard “coon” used to describe Martin. I did not hear “cold.” Do you have a link where experts are saying it’s “cold?”

From your most recent quote, if it’s not racial the Federal govt has no right to be involved. Are you saying the federal govt only has a right to be involved in racial cases? No other cases at all? The FBI only deals with racial cases?

@Rock2 you are clearly incapable of answering any questions. I am done here. I hope your conservative heroes lead you (by the nose) directly to the conspiracy theories you are looking for and that someday you manage to solve the problem of black on black crime you are so very concerned about.

@SuperMouse
No, the reverse is true. The Democrats approached Trayvon’s parents when they thought they could fire up the race card in an election year and fire up blacks to vote for Obama. Doesn’t that answer your question?

@GoldieAV16 @jca
The feds can only get involved in a local police matter like this is when civil rights are involved. In other words if racial descrimination is involved. Goldie, if I am the only one who thinks it’s about race, why is Sharpton and Jackson involved?

As far as what was said on the audio tapes:
http://www.wyff4.com/news/national/Lawyers-Zimmerman-whispered-punks-before-shooting-Trayvon-Martin//9324256/10272536//12p81y9/-/

Last night on the news they were saying cold, now Zimmerman says it was “punks”. Take your choice it wasn’t coon.

@Rock2: I can’t access the link from my computer but I can see from the headlines that Zimmerman’s lawyers said it was “punks.” Of course they’re going to spin it how they think it makes their client look his best. Did you hear the tapes? I heard “coon” or possibly if you want to stretch, “goon.” Something with a long “o” like “oooh.” “Cold” and “punks” sounded nothing like what I heard.

@jca
Interpretation of audio tapes is difficult at best. If some people hear “coon” and others hear “punks” and still others hear “cold” how is any of that going to stand up in court?

“punks”, “coons”, “peanut butter sandwich” – This guy chased down a kid and shot him. And he’s not in prison right now.

@tom_g
It still hasn’t been established that he chased Trayvon down. In fact, as Zimmerman tells it Trayvon chased him down.

@Rock2: “It still hasn’t been established that he chased Trayvon down. In fact, as Zimmerman tells it Trayvon chased him down.”

Are we listening to the same tape? The one where the police ask Zimmerman if he’s following Travon, and Zimmerman says that he is?

@rock2: Of course Zimmerman is going to say that Trayvon chased him down. Why did Zimmerman get out of his car? Was it for a big concern for the neighborhood?

What does Trayvon say about what happened?

@GoldieAV16 @jca
It’s that goose gander thing.

Have a nice weekend.

[mod says] Let’s keep personal insults out of this, folks. It may be time to archive this tread.

@augustlan
I agree. The discussion has diverted a long way from the original question.

@augustlan
Did I get the record for the most responses to a question?

@Rock2 Not by a long shot. Was that your intention? I believe AstroChuck still holds the record, for his ‘song title game’ question.

@augustlan

Did you mean to say ‘diss tread’?

@augustlan
No that wan’t my intention but what is the record? Do I get credit for what I did?

Yeah, @Rock2, I think that a lot of Jellies are proud of you.
The ‘record’ must be around 500 responses, about.

@Rock2 what do you think you did that deserves credit? What kind of credit would you like to receive?

@rebbel
This site needs to make a visible counter for responses.

@SuperMouse
It’s alright if you hate me.

“185 Answers” is too subtle for you?

@Rock2 There is a counter, right underneath your question up at the top, on the left side. The record is in the thousands, if I’m not mistaken. What is it you want to receive credit for, exactly?

Can I get the last wrod in here? Phooey!

Well, at least @janbb did get in the last… whatever the hell that was.

Word Trying again.