Is it an unreasonable request for a wife to ask her husband to assert himself more as a man and "be the husband"? And what about the other way around (a man asking his wife to be more wife-like)

I don’t think anyone should go into a relationship assuming they are going to change the other into their perfect mate. Some trivial things, such as squeezing the toothpaste tube from the middle, can be changed, but a person’s innate being is what it is and you damned better be able to live with it before you move in. Trying to change yourself or the other almost always ends up causing massive resentments and problems.

Um… what were the actual details? Does he contribute to the household finances? Does she want him to dominate her in the bedroom? Does she want him to do traditional “man” stuff like mow the lawn or take out the garbage?
You know, everybody doesn’t have a problem with people assuming “traditional” roles. But I’m really curious to know what exactly she wants.

Sometimes my wife wants be to step in to be more disciplinary when trying to control our kids. I suppose she wants more of a male message to be sent.

I think I would need to know the details of what she means by him becoming more assertive and manly before I decided it it’s unreasonable.

I agree with @WillWorkForChocolate, it is hard to say what is reasonable without knowing the context.

During and my first marriage there were plenty of times when I really wanted my husband to step up and be more assertive in specific situations. I was forced to stand alone quite often because the ex seemed not to have the courage or desire to back me up. Personally I thought they were all reasonable requests.

So no, I don’t think the request is unreasonable in either direction.

It almost sounds like the wife wants to husband to grow up. I don’t think that any person can be more ‘gendered’ that they already are.

Being assertive is for some a mark of maturity. As is better playing one’s role in a relationship.

When couples have expectations that are not being met, it is time to see a counselor.

Everything is on the table. What makes sense in one relationship doesn’t make it sensible in another.

It would certainly be an unreasonable request of me or from me, that’s for sure. But for people who buy into gender, it might not be so unreasonable. Of course, if anyone shared that this happened in their relationship, I would NOT be on the side of the person that has the audacity to tell their partner how to be the gender they already are, anyway.

I agree with not trying to change another, but, I also agree that dependent on the context of what is meant, there is, potentially, merit to the request. I’m in the camp too that had an immature ex husband that was a total wuss when it came to being assertive in many different situations. Drove me nuts, I felt like I was the only one ever handling anything!

Bah!

If it’s an attempt to mold someone to ones own narrow version of gender stereotyping then no, but if it’s a matter of character, integrity and COURAGE then yep, I have problems with those that don’t have a take charge attitude in life.

@Trillian It was a general change, like wanting him to take charge of events and planning things out with the family, but that has nothing to do with gender. The wording is all wrong, lol.

I agree that details would be great.

Now I will also say that after 40+ yrs, I have learned (at least in the USA) that some things, for some reason get better results with a dominant male presence rather than dominant female presence. I’m not happy about any of it but when push comes to shove and I want shite taken care of, I’ll ask the man to “man up” and use his male magick to:

Enforce what I say with the dogs, his children, our property mgr., requesting table reservations, getting us cheaper dry cleaning, store returns, getting the attention of sales people in our local Home Depot, Cabela’s gun counter, that sort of thing.

Well, that’s a request I’d never want to hear or make. It’s very condescending. Also, it is very unclear what it means. I think someone who makes a request like this has communication problems. They don’t know what they want. They want a myth. They want things to be easier. Be a fucking man, already. That’ll make everything ok.

That’s pretty much bullshit. There’s so much underneath that that isn’t being said, and if the couple can’t learn to say what needs to be said, then they will be unhappy with each other. Someone needs to grow a pair and do some work in the relationship. Someone needs to initiate the conversation. It really doesn’t matter who it is. Usually it’s the person with the better communication skills.

I don’t think it’s an unreasonable request. It’s not a very meaningful request. Mostly, it’s a cry for help.

It may not be an unreasonable request. On the other hand, I don’t think most guys these days are going to get anywhere good by asking their wife to be more feminine and be more like a wife. One more reason to stay single.

I feel your anger, and I’ve been involved in these types of debates with others as well about this issue, both online and offline personally. Asking someone to not be themselves is about one of the most unfairest things that a person can do to another. This is why I don’t support facades and the typical dating rules during the initializing ‘process’. If ‘genderizing’ is such an important issue than I question the original premise for getting involved in a relationship to begin with.

I do accept that we all like our own thing, and if a woman/man does find such rigid gender standards to be more to their liking than so be it. However, when the person who supports a relationship based upon rigid gender standards starts to attack, insult people and expect others to conform to their liking because they simply believe that their way is the way it otta be then I would say such people have severe mental issues to begin with.

Was the guy an Evangelical/Fundamentalist Christian maybe? There’s a certain strain of Evangelical Christianity where they are very into that kind of stuff. For example:

Here

and here

and here also

That’s just three examples. That crap is all over the place. Three should be enough to give you a pretty good idea of what the message is; and, it was starting to kind of nauseate me so three was about as much as I could handle. There are also Christian men’s groups like the Promise Keepers which promote and support manly manliness in Christian husbands. :-)

My ex-husband was also not prone to “step up to the plate”, as it were. He simply would not assert himself in any type of situation, from going to restaurants (I always had to announce us to the Maitre’ D), to just standing in line at a gas station.

What really killed us was his inability (or unwillingness) to defend and stand up for his wife (me) to his family, even when he knew I was right in my interpretation of their behavior/comments.

As I was reading the more recent responses, what @josie said was running through my mind. I am a “tomboyish” type woman. I always have been and I probably always will be. If my husband can’t accept that about me and would want me to change into a girly, frilly, love house cleaning and toenail polish stereotypical female, I would tell him to not let the gate hit him on the butt when he leaves.

You have to accept people for what they are, if you don’t like it, find someone who meets your criteria, do not try to change another into your ideal.

I doubt the intention of the question was for him to learn how to be more “gendered”. I would bet the question would have made more sense if he had said something like “how can I be a better husband” or something. Of course, I didn’t read the original question, so what do I know?

Within the bounds of a standard heterosexual relationship, though, I don’t see what’s wrong with the question.

If I ever suggested the wife be more “wife-like” she’d deliver me a swift kick to the nuts with this commentary…....“Stop crying like a girl & be a man!”
To which i’d probably reply, “Well I was a fucking moment ago!!”

It’s OK with me. That question has as many answers as there are married couples.

@digitalimpression I agree. I just think the wrong terms were used. A wife or husband could simply ask for the other person to help with one specific thing, not criticise their entire identity, lol.

@Blackberry I can see that. However, as @digitalimpression states, within the confines of a traditional heterosexual relationship, I’m sure that the traditional expectations and vocabulary are limited to traditional roles. Remember, this forum is an extremely small percentage of the population, and a definite minority outside the confines of this site. Most people in the country do not feel compelled to use the language used here or have the issues of gender that are voiced here. So the terminology was probably not meant offensively.

@Trillian Indeed.

My point of view, as someone who doesn’t much like the idea of gender roles, is that we need to apply the same standards of reason to this request as we would apply to any other request in a relationship.

Here’s what I mean by that. Relationships involve a lot of give and take; compromise. A wife might ask a husband to work on being a better listener, for example, and he might make the effort to change in that way for the sake of the relationship. Assertiveness could just be another example of something she might want from her husband, and to me that’s fine, as long as she’s not wanting it from him simply because he’s a man and therefore “supposed” to be assertive. Same for the reverse situation with women and submissiveness.

Furthermore, while I think we can expect our partners to make little changes here and there to improve our relationships, I also think we should never expect them to change who they are; that is something we should accept and love as it is, otherwise why are you in a relationship with that person?

@Mariah has said it better than I could have, so I’ll just go with: “What she ^^ said.”

Sons need male role models.

@Trillian I definitely know that the majority of the fluther userbase does not voice the opinions of the majority of people. However, men being attacked for not being real men anymore is very common place whether on the internet, books, talkshows, etc, etc, etc.

Obviously the summary of this question does have a major impact, even when it comes to regular everyday people outside of fluther, enough where this issue continues to gather more attention. To me it is just more BS, another excuse to visciously attack men who are tired of being held to ridiculous gender behavior standards.