Jerusalem: Israeli or Palestinian?

Your question has a bit of a prejudiced slant to it.

Why does it have to be “either/or”? I think the most rational solutions I have heard have been that Jerusalem should be an open city, and not bound to any one of the three faiths. Remember that Christians claim the sanctity of Jerusalem also.

As my father used to say, “the problem with buying property in Israel and Palestine is the title search is a nightmare.”

And, how can you say the Palestinians ”…inhabited the area before there were any Hebrews in existence?” The Jewish people have been there for about 2,500 years.

If you are talking about a time when there were no “Hebrews in existence”, you are going back to the days before Abram? There weren’t a lot of people back then.
This is similar to people who demand the United States leave North America.
Israel is their land. It was pronounced thus after World War II, but it is their cultural homeland.

I guess it still remains to be seen.

The old city is shared. It is divided into four Quarters. The Jewish Quarter, the Muslim Quarter, The Armenian Quarter and the Christian Quarter.
The argument over who has rights to the city will never be won this side of Armageddon.

There are two ways to look at it:
1. It is the Jewish cultural homeland (home of the Western Wall) that was invaded by the Palestinians, and is now being reclaimed as the Jew’s physical homeland. God promised the land to the Jews.

2. It is an Islamic cultural homeland (home of the Dome of the Rock) that was recently invaded by the Jews, despite the fact that is was the Palestinian’s physical homeland before. God promised the land to the Palestinians.

Muslims and Jews have the same deity.

Israeli’s = Israelis.

Right now it belongs to Israel, mainly because the UN agreed upon. Some Israelis are willing to go along with dividing Jerusalem for peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians, because there is a part of Jerusalem that mostly has Arabs living there.

Now what’s this about Palestinians being there before Hebrews were in existence? How does that work exactly? Abraham fathered Isaac and Ismael. Isaac basically started the Jewish line and Ismael the Muslim one. You gotts wonder what would have happened is Sarah had allowed Ismael to stay. The people who lived in the region before these religions came around, I would guess would all have some claim if you go by that logic, which I don’t.

@PhiNotPi Where did you come up with this? This is what I am looking for. I am not seeking a religious debate because I would never win, not with all the evidence in the world.

Genesis 15:18–21 shows how God supposedly promised the area of Israel to Abraham. Due to the conflict with Issac and Ismael, both Islam and Judaism (and later Christianity) would all claim to be the legitimate heir to this land. Thus, all of the Abrahamic faiths believe that they are entitled to Jerusalem.

The reason that many people believe that it was promised solely to the Jews is that the promise was supposedly reaffirmed to the Jews after the split of the two faiths. Of course, god said nothing that revoked his promise to the Muslims, so they can also claim that god promised them the land.

Reading through the Wikipedia page, it says that Jerusalem has been “captured and recaptured 44 times,” so Jerusalem has indeed been the homeland of a very large number of different groups.

The land first came under Jewish control around 1000 BCE, under the House of David. It remained under their control until 597 BCE, when it was lost to the Babylonians. The Jews were allowed to return by around 516 BCE (after the Persians took over), when the Second Temple was built, but was then taken over by the Macedonians (Alexander the Great). After his reign, and the fragmentation of his empire, it came under Jewish control with the Hasmonean dynasty from 130 – 47 BCE.

It was taken over by the Romans. Jerusalem then became the birthplace of Christianity. Under the Byzantine empire (the eastern Roman empire), the Jews were still banned from the city, but it was under Christian control. This is when the major Christian monuments were built, such as the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in the early 300s.

It came under Islamic control around the early 600’s. Muhammad is said to have journeyed to heaven in the year 621, making Jerusalem one of the holiest cities in Islam. The Dome of the Rock was built in 691 CE. The Palestinians would have control of this land for 400 years, until the Crusades established the Kingdom of Jerusalem in 1099. Both the Muslims and Jews were forced out of the city as it came under Christian control.

Jerusalem was reclaimed by the Muslims 1187 by Saladin, who permitted the worshiping of all religions. It remained under Islamic control until 1243, when the Christains took power. There was a period of unrest, but it was eventually captured by the Egyptian Mamluks, who were Muslim.

In 1517, Jerusalem was taken over by the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman empire was based on Islam, and it retained control for 400 years, until the British took control of Palestine in 1917. In 1947, the land was partitioned between Jordan and Israel. After 1948, Jerusalem was divided between the two countries.

In 1967, Jerusalem was taken over by Irael in the Six Day War, during which Israel took over the Sinai peninsula, the West Bank, the Gaza strip, and the Golan Heights. As of now, the city is currently controlled by Israel as its unrecognized capital.

@PhiNotPi Thank you for the information. You gave me an idea to research and I realized that Palestine was not Palestine 4,000 years ago, it was Canaan.

@JLeslie If you are saying that Jerusalem belongs to Israel with the agreement of the UN then I’m afraid you are incorrect. The UN position is that negotiations over Jerusalem should be part of the negotiations for a final settlement. This was agreed by the parties concerned back in 1993.

Although Jerusalem is the functioning capital of Israel, it is not internationally recognized as such.

@flutherother No, I meant in 1947 when they took the vote. I mentioned that there are people in Israel who agree with dividing Jerusalem. I was not sure where the UN stands now, I was not thinking about that in my original post, but it makes sense to me they would support it as part of a negotiation for peace.

@PhiNotPi Who doesn’t recognize it?

@JLeslie I’m afraid they are correct; almost all the Embassies are in the Tel Aviv area, except Italy, Greece and perhaps a handful of others. If an Embassy is an indication of recognition. The US has a consulate there; its Embassy is in Tel Aviv as well.

Sorcery, Source

@zensky Thanks.

But, isn’t it correct that back when Israel was established in ‘48 (I think the UN vote was ‘47) Jerusalem was part of Israel? Whether it was accepted as the capitol or not?

I don’t think so, but Zensky would obviously know more. From my recollection (without looking it up on the wikipedias or the googles), the original state was divided into Jewish and Arab areas, with Jerusalem an international city. Not sure who was supposed to rule it. After Israel declared independence, the Arabs attacked, which led to the Israeli war of independence. After the Israelis beat back the attackers, the pre-67 borders were established, and Jerusalem was divided between Israel and Jordan.

It was only after the Arabs attacked again in 67 that the West Bank, the Golan and the Sinai were taken in the 6 Day War, and Jerusalem was under full Israeli control.

@Rarebear Interesting. Thanks. Hopefully @zensky comes back to verify your answer.

And if all that @Rarebear wrote is true – where do the “Palestinians” fit in this historical context? They aren’t mentioned once – why? Because they didn’t exist… but I digress.

@JLeslie They won’t be happy with anything less than all of Jerusalem. Land-for-peace didn’t work last time they tried it.

Well, I am glad Mitt Romney settled the question once and for all. If he is elected we could see a shift in US policy on this. Time to move on to something else.

Word.