What would you say is the problem with the kids who bullied an older bus monitor?

I think a lot if it has to do with the fact that there are no parents at home to raise our kids anymore. It now takes two incomes to raise a family instead of one.
The big corporations took advantage of the women’s movement and doubled their workforce for the same effective pay.
The result, parents who want to stay home and raise their kids no longer can and the kids are being raised by strangers and video games.
I know my kids had their moments and I was so exhausted. I carry a lot of mommy guilt over not being there to help them navigate a lot of life’s tough decisions.
(thank goodness they turned into law abiding citizens. It was a crap shoot. )

All I know for sure is that if I showed signs of acting like that as a little kid, I’d be in for a lecture and a hide-tanning.
But I do think that there may be more to it than kinetic justice. I hardly ever taunted anyone growing up, possibly because I suffered some at such hands. Maybe the kids weren’t raised to be empathetic? It’s usually enough for me to think that someone I love won’t like what I’m doing for me to have second thoughts about doing it. And somewhere they worked in a “respect your elders” mandate; well and good when I was 10, but its knee-jerk quality must be consciously acted against if I am to treat other adults as my equals.

The root problem, of course, is that we’re all dirty rotten sinners and it just manifests in different ways.

Probably one asshole, followed by a mob mentality. Ugh. People suck.

The monitors lack authority and the kids know it.
I’d like to see cameras installed on the buses and sample video posted on the school’s we page. It would be proof that little Brandon, Brittney, Shinequa and Tyshaun are not the angels their parents say they are.

I’d also like to see the kids (and their parents) charged.

Since this is America, the land where anyone can sue anyone else for any reason, I’d like to see the monitor sue the kids and their families (Not the school!) for pain and suffering. There should consequences for this behavior.

I agree with @augustlan. This seems to be a pack mentality where one kid wised off and then each kid on the bus was trying to top the other kids with more outrageous behavior.

What exactly is the job of the bus monitor? She doesn’t have any boundaries with the kids and obviously hasn’t garnered any respect. She said she wasn’t even going to report the behavior! I don’t think it is anything new in the behavior of the kids. That type of behavior has been around and will be around forever. The difference, IMHO, is the behavior of the adult.

I’d be curious to know how long she’s had the job as bus monitor and has just sat there and allowed the children to bully her. She obviously isn’t suited for that job. That isn’t to say that the kids don’t need to be disciplined. That goes without saying. The bus driver must also know what is going on. When did adults stop acting like adults?

@bkcunningham, she was a bus driver for several years before she became the bus monitor and had been a bus monitor for three years or so. According to the interview I just saw the rules forbid her from fighting back which is why she sat and took their taunting.

I think we are fooling ourselves if we think this situation is about “kids these days.” Kids can be cruel. The reasons are many and have always been around. One is that some parents don’t teach their children respect for others. They are too busy instilling their kids with self-esteem they forget to tell them that other people matter too. Some kids are bullies, have never been punished for it, think it is funny and totally appropriate and they just keep it up. Many kids don’t have the nerve to stand up to the bully and fall in line with the behavior to prove they fit in.

@SuperMouse, I’m not sure what is meant by “fighting back.” Of course you wouldn’t have a physical altercation with the kids. But that doesn’t mean that you wouldn’t let them know you are in charge and the behavior isn’t going to be tolerated.

I wonder how well behaved the kids would be if the school system suspended them from riding the bus? I bet the parents would do their jobs when they had to drive the brats to and from school.

@bkcunningham of course I didn’t mean she should punch the kids in the face. It is rather ridiculous to even consider that. From what I heard, the policy is for the monitor not to discipline the students.

In my opinion it is that the parents have not actively tried to teach their children to respect other people. Once you get a group of people started down the wrong track (as this clearly shows), the “mob” mentality takes over & with teens it usually takes more than one to run off at the mouth & before long most of the “mob” will join in. I think this Bus Monitor should file a Civil Suit against the individuals (& their families) & sue them for monetary damages. Barring that, I think that the school should file charges against the ring-leaders.

No, @SuperMouse. I didn’t think you were implying anything. I was responding to what you said were in the rules. Does anyone know what the job of the bus monitor in that school district entails? I looked, briefly, and couldn’t find anything.

EDIT: From what I did read, the monitor has received a windfall from the story being posted on the Internet. It seems like her behavior is being rewarded and I don’t like that either. It is almost like there aren’t any real lessons being taught in this situation.

Fight back was probably a poor word choice…

@bkcunningham I had an uneasy feeling about all that cash too. Until you wrote that she is “being rewarded” for her behavior I couldn’t put my finger on why. I think you hit on it though, being paid off for that doesn’t feel quite right. I guess it is good that she’ll have cash to go on a vacation and maybe put a little away for retirement. But really there are lots of workers that endure abuse and are incredibly underpaid. I have been on lots of field trips with my kids over the years – most of the time riding on the bus. There is no way I could be convinced to ride with those kids if I wasn’t given the authority to call out and put a stop to bad behavior.

My sister was a bus monitor on a bus for kids with behavioral issues. When she started she was taught a couple of self-defense moves and some holds to keep students at bay. She was allowed to verbally discipline the students. My sister was attacked and got a horrible bite on her hand that left awful scars, mental and physical. My sister didn’t get a thing from the district, the parents, or the bus company. It was a horrible situation.

I’m afraid it’s more a “spare the rod and spoil the child” issue. Kids know that parents are lenient, way too relaxed with most things and there is no fear of the consequences anymore, so they have gone way over the limits. They are fully aware that NOBODY with say or do anything so they can go ahead and do whatever. I am not in support of Victorian discipline, but I do think that a kid must be afraid of what will follow if he steps out of line.

@ZEPHYRA I could not disagree with you more. My children have never been hit and there is no doubt in my mind they would never treat anyone they way those children treated that woman. Just because children are not hit does not mean they do not face consequences. There are ways to discipline children that do not include hitting them. When my children misbehave, which of course they do, they do face consequences. It makes no sense whatsoever to hit a kid to teach them that bullying isn’t ok. Hitting someone who is smaller than you and/or can’t fight back is the very essence of bullying. Disrespecting children is no way to teach them respect.

Before everyone starts in with the “how can you be so sure your kids wouldn’t do that?” stuff, I know my kids. I know their character. I spend time with my kids. I have taught my kids to respect their elders. I’ll tell you what, if I were to find out my kid disrespected anyone they way those kids did the consequences would be swift, severe, memorable, and would keep that behavior from ever happening again. The consequences would not include physical punishment.

The cause here? Lack of consequences, lack of respect for others. Parents more worried about their kid’s self esteem than teching them simple common courtesy.

@SuperMouse I truly appreciate and respect your viewpoint and very much depends on the type of child in question. May I ask how you would handle this if you were the parent of one of those awful little people?

@ZEPHYRA a couple of ideas off the top of my head. First they would have to face that woman and apologize. They would respectfully ask her what they can do for her, around her house, running errands, yard work, something to make amends for their horrible behavior. They might be required to volunteer for meals on wheels or another program for the elderly to help them learn the importance of respect. This would of course be on top of losing every single privilege they have from going out with friends, to computer, to cell phone, to video games for pretty much the rest of their lives.

As I said, these are ideas off the top of my head. In this situation the child would be sent to their room without a single amenity and sweat it out while I sat down with my husband and together we came up with a logical and well thought out consequence for such despicable behavior.

@SuperMouse, with all due respect to you and the other thread you started based off of this question, I don’t really see any responses that are encouraging spanking kids. There are two responses that could be leaning toward spanking, but when you read the entirety of the responses, they aren’t really endorsing spankings just discipline. I wasn’t sure where to post this response. I thought I’d do it here so you could easily read back through the answers.

Talk of lack of consequences seems to assume that anybody would do something like this, if they knew there would be no consequences. Is that true? Would you do this if you had the opportunity and you knew there was no possible way there would be any consequences?

I think it has to be more than that. There are plenty of people who would never do something like this, even if they knew full-well they wouldn’t be punished for it. What makes the mentality of these kids different, to think that this is something they should be doing?

@bkcunningham It isn’t just this site, though. The whole “corporal punishment is the answer” is a common reaction to this story, that I have seen. I think it is valid to consider that answer, since a lot of people seem to have it.

“Talk of lack of consequences seems to assume that anybody would do something like this, if they knew there would be no consequences.”
Makes no such assumption at all.

@Trillian But lack of consequences cannot be the only problem, since there are people who wouldn’t do something like this even if no consequences were guaranteed. It has to be more in their nature/value system, is what I’m implying.

@DominicX, that is another reason I didn’t post my thoughts on @SuperMouse‘s other thread. I think it can be a good discussion within itself and I didn’t want to muddy the waters in that thread. :)

@bkcunningham with all due respect, every single time something such as this comes up, it is insinuated, if not out right stated that the answer is to hit kids. The other question isn’t based solely on this thread, but on a pattern of behavior that I have witnessed over time.

@Trillian I think @DominicX‘s point is that some kids have been raised with a set of values that dictates that this kind of behavior is wrong whether they are caught or not. There are kids that make the choice not to mistreat people because they know it is wrong and not because they are afraid of the consequences. I think every parent’s goal needs to be to instill their kids with that set of values.

@DominicX and @SuperMouse, do you think more people are spanking their kids these days?

@DominicX @SuperMouse I think those people of whom you speak are clearly not the ones engaging in theis shameful behaviour. My idea about lack of consequences was top of my head and it does, indeed, go deeper than that. However, that is one very large factor, IMO. See the other thread about this for a deeper look.

@bkcunningham maybe. Possibly as a backlash to what some see as free-wheeling parenting and an evangelical Christian movement advocating “spare the rod spoil the child” parenting.

There are as many shades of gray in this question as “nature vs. nurture.” I don’t think we could pinpoint one dominant thing that would cause someone to act this way towards another human being. I don’t buy that a lack of consequences, while certainly a possible contributing factor, is the major thing that would cause someone to act like this. There still has to be a want to do it, and that comes from something internal, not an external factor.

I think @ZEPHYRA is especially off base here- if a child would find this behavior perfectly acceptable and would be tempted to participate but chooses not to do it only out of fear of “what will follow if he steps out of line,” are they actually any better than the kids in this video?

There are a billion factors that could have caused these kids to act so horribly- Peer pressure, groupthink, an inherent personality, abuse, mental illness, passive parenting, and so on. We could rack our brains over and over again trying to figure out what went so wrong with these kids, and we would probably never know; or, we could focus on teaching our children, grandchildren, and future generations that this type of behavior is wrong and not to tolerate it.

Maybe this is an insensitive question but hey, I’ll ask anyway…

If the monitor has no control of the kids, has no authority to maintain control, and no method to report infractions, then why are we taxpayers paying her salary?
Why is she on the bus at all? Either the position should be eliminated. Or, if she was incompetent, she should be replaced with someone who can handle the animals children.

Give her a video camera and let her report infractions to the Asst. Principal.

@bkcunningham I just read your similar post. I think she should have been fired long ago. So far, some well meaning but misguided group has raised $150,000 rewarding her for her incompetence. She should spend ⅓ of it on legal fees to slap a civil suit on the parents and the kids who participated. There needs to be some negative consequences for that type of misbehavior.

Not all of the time, but most of the time it is the way the kids are brought up. Also, if kids know that they have little to fear they do tend to be more brazen as well. I’m not a corporal punishment advocate, but I’m not for coddling kids who do bad things to other people, especially violent things. There are so many things which could cause kids to things like this that it would be futile to focus on just one thing.

(I hate people)

The fund to send her on vacation is nearing $300.000. Not all people are jerks.

I couldn’t watch the whole video. People who pick on children, animals or the elderly piss me off.

What ended up happening to the kids?

@Mama_Cakes , They haven’t decided yet. Here’s the story from The Today Show this morning

Wow. That type of behavior would not be allowed in my child’s school district. The children would be reported to the office and most likely receive detention. If it was repeated behavior the children would be suspended. I get my daughter from her bus at the end of our driveway and her bus driver is almost always yelling at the troublemakers to sit down and be quiet. He doesn’t take any of that shit from the kids. There are consequences for that type of behavior.

I agree @LuckyGuy, except I don’t think she should sue the parents as much as I think the parents should be forced taking turns driving the brats to school and home in the evenings. The kids should lose the privilege of riding the bus. What is the job of a bus monitor?

@LuckyGuy I was wondering the same thing, honestly. What’s the point of a bus monitor position if the monitor can’t actually monitor anything?

@Mama_Cakes From what I read, the school district has said that there will be consequences, but they will have to wait until school is back in session to enforce it and they haven’t decided on what action to take at this point. No charges were filed, though.

Isn’t Greece, NY, a suburb of Rochester?

I’m in no way condoning those pissants behaviour, far from it, but what the fuck’s she doing on the bus in the first place when she clearly hasn’t the “tools” to perform the position she’s been allocated.
It’s like putting an arsonist in the fire dept, or a vegetarian in an abattoir, horses for courses springs to mind.

Aw, @ucme. Your words are so eloquent. Like poetry. Well stated.

I found the job posting for that position. She should have been fired!

Duties to Include the Following:
· Accompanies bus driver and students on scheduled route;
· Supervises the boarding and unloading of student passengers at each stop, at transfer points, and at school sites;
· Assists physically handicapped students to and from the bus;
· Maintains order on buses;
· Enforces district policy governing student behavior while bus is in operation;
· Assists driver when backing up bus;
· Reports orally and in writing instances of continuing disruptive student behavior;
· Requests driver to summon emergency aid by two-way radio or operates two-way radio;
· Reports trouble at bus stops to driver, terminal, bus garage, or transportation office;
· Assists students with special needs;
· Attends scheduled job training classes and workshops and parent/school/driver meetings;
· Ensures students are seated before bus is in motion;
· Other duties and responsibilities as assigned.

Taxpayers were paying her $10.49 per hour. Clearly she was not the right person for that job. What a waste.

I agree, she wasn’t suited for the job. The kids were still being nasty, little fuckers and should be reprimanded.

@bkcunningham I used to write speeches for Pope John Paul II, I may have just made that up though.

It doesn’t surprise me, @ucme…either part of your statement.

Wasn’t a statement, more of a scurrilous rumour.

I saw this for the first time today and it broke my heart. Nasty little fuckers.

Part of me thinks that when kids are this mean to others that it is a reflection of their upbringing, maybe they have been allowed to get away with murder at home and don’t know boundaries or common courtesy for others. They may be spoilt brats who feel entitled.

On the other hand, part of me feels that it could just be peer pressure that has gotten out of control and that, whilst they didn’t mean for it to go that far, they had to continue the act so as not to lose face in front of their friends. I think a lot of bullying happens because of peer pressure. If this is the case then it may not make any difference if the parents raised them to be respectful of others, their strength of character isn’t yet strong enough to stand up against this kind of thing yet for fear that the bullying will turn on them if they speak out.

I don’t know. The cruelty here really shocked me and I really hope that something is done to teach these kids the error of their ways, I just don’t know what the right course of action would be. It’s sad that she had no control over the situation at all, it seemed that she had no choice but to sit there and take it.

@LuckyGuy I just read an interview with her and she said in all her 20 years as a bus driver and then over three years as a monitor she had never experienced such abuse. She even said that the kids in question here were often up to “mischief” but nothing to this extent. I don’t think she should be fired for this one instance if the rest of her career has been fairly positive which, reading between the lines, it was. Teenagers can be really intimidating when there is a group of them acting like this so I can’t blame her for feeling overwhelmed by it but she must have done something right for the past 23 years working on buses with school kids.

Want to make a bet her job was a union job, @Leanne1986?

@bkcunningham can you explain what you mean by “union job”?

I mean most likely she was a member of a union, being from that area of New York.

I’m going to assume that a union in the US works in the same way as it does in the UK. Regardless, by claiming that she should have been fired is almost justifying the teenagers actions. If she can’t cope with bullying then she isn’t fit for the job? Not fair. I would imagine that her hands were tied. It may say in the job description that she should be able to maintain order but how exactly is anyone meant to do that with no back up? I think these kids would be able to walk all over even the biggest, most intimidating bloke if they all ganged up like this.

@Leanne1986 That’s the thing, my daughter’s bus driver is an example of handling kids like this without backup. My older son rode the same bus and he told me how terrible some of the kids are. All it took was one holler and threat from the driver and they would calm down. From what I saw in the video the bus monitor just sat there and took the abuse. She just didn’t have the guts to stand up to these kids. (I only watched the first two minutes, That’s all I could take.)

@jonsblond I think it depends on the kids more than the person “in charge”. I saw a female teacher reduced to tears once because of a gang of kids hurling abuse at her. She was youngish, had been teaching a good few years and, like this woman, seemed to have had a positive career up to that point but some groups of teenagers are too intimidating for even the experienced because they have to be so careful what they say or do to them. I really think that, even if she had stood up to them, it would have made no difference to this particular group of kids.

I read the article, but can’t bring myself to watch the video.

Did this occur within earshot of the bus driver? If not, why didn’t she solicit his/her help in controlling the situation?

@Leanne1986 From what I’ve heard from my son and other parents at the school, the children in that video were no different than the ones my children go to school with (the bullies, that is). Bullies are bullies. I really think the person in charge and the consequences of their actions make a huge difference.

@Leanne1986 I don’t know if the point is that if she can’t cope with the bullying she isn’t fit for the job. The point to me seems to be that in order to be qualified for the job she needed to have a presence and control on the bus that kept the bullying from happening to begin with. There is no doubt that she showed those kids over a period of time that it is unnecessary to behave correctly on that bus. Kids, even middle schoolers, want limits and rules. They will push as far as they are allowed to push. These kids had obviously been allowed to push way too far for way too long. I agree with @jonsblond, it is about the person in charge and their energy and classroom management (or in this case bus management) skills rather than the kids. In the end I think this poor woman had no business being a bus monitor.

@Pied_Pfeffer I have wondered the same thing! Where was the bus driver during all of this?

Those who believe that she wasn’t strong enough with these kids thus allowing them to behave in such a way, do you not wonder how she survived 23 years working on school buses? If she was new to the job I may agree that she was just in the wrong place for her character but it would appear that she has had a positive career up to this point. So, what has changed?

@Leanne1986 maybe she had an effective bus monitor?

What exactly would/ought a bus monitor be able to do, anyway? Assign detention? Be intimidating? Take up pepper spray? Whatever it is, it would have to be potent enough to cut through mob euphoria.
I either walked/biked to school or was driven; I never rode the bus.

@Leanne1986 Not every bus has a group of students like the one in the video and my example I gave in this question. My daughter rode a different bus once when she went home with one of her friends and she told me she wished she could ride that bus because the kids are nice and quiet, unlike some of the kids on her bus (and I almost hate to say that my daughter’s bus travels to areas where many families are lower income. her friend’s bus travels to an area with more middle income families. not sure if that makes any difference). I don’t know anything about this woman and her past work other than what I witnessed in the video. She may have been lucky in the past and had a group of decent kids on her previous routes, but there is no difference from the bullies in the video and any other bully I have encountered. Maybe she finally had enough of being too nice and decided to show the world this video? I remember a story not too long ago about a flight attendant that flipped out on a passenger. He was a model employee for years until he finally couldn’t take it any longer.

@Nullo I would look at an effective bus monitor the way I look at an effective classroom teacher. They need to command respect from day one. Some people are able to do that effectively and some are not.

@Leanne1986 I spent many years running training classes for hotel managers. Every time I thought that I had seen everything, a new curve ball was thrown my way.

It’s possible that this is the first time that she was personally confronted. With the rules about being PC being beat into adults in certain jobs these days, and little on-the-job training, it’s not surprising that some wouldn’t take action. This was a personal attack. Had it been on another student, she may have reacted differently.

I would like to see the teens involved go through the training that emergency hotline call center reps do, like these. If they pass, then they need to spend a certain amount of time as a call rep. where their calls are monitored for professionalism and empathy.

@Pied_Pfeffer I think the fact that it was a personal attack probably made all the difference to her reaction. I still don’t feel that claims of her being in the wrong job or she should be fired (as @LuckyGuy etc seem to think) are fair based on this one instance and those nasty kids. The fact that they said her family should kill themselves when her son had killed himself (not that the kids necessarily knew that) is bound to really hit a nerve causing a different reaction to that of a kid bullying another kid. I don’t think she would have lasted more than 20 years on school buses if she was a pushover and I doubt this is the first time she has encountered bullying but I do wonder if she acted differently because it was being filmed!?

Why are we balming the monitor whose hands have been tied by the system? She has no actual authority and the kids know it.

@Leanne1986 I agree with you. If someone, even a kid that didn’t know my circumstances, hurled a taunt like that at me, I would probably shut down. While they might not realize it, their words are a figurative blow to the jugular vein.

I hadn’t thought of the angle that she knew that the incident was being filmed. Even if she did, the situation still could have been addressed properly and contained before it went out of control. If need be, she could have gone up to the bus driver and asked him/her to stop. That action alone could have shown some control over the situation.

It sounds like more people would support her stance if she had addressed the situation in a firm but professional manner rather than remain passive and take the abuse. Unfortunately, hindsight is 20–20, and the right words in responding to a situation such as this often come much later.

@Trillian I’m not so sure that she doesn’t have any authority. Surely, some comes with the job title alone. If she just sat on the bus every day and had no interaction, then I can see a bully taking advantage of the situation. I vividly recall witnessing this type of behavior from peers towards an adult when I was a teen, both at school and during a summer job.

*blaming. (Sheesh)

Here in england town, I know a school bus driver who get’s grief from some of the kids he ferries to & from school. He mostly gives them some stick back, bit of banter really, if it does go too far he’s told them to shut the fuck up or get out & walk…...sounds fair enough to me.

I saw her on the Today show yesterday (today is Friday, she was on Thursday) and like others have said, over $300,000 has been raised for her to help her. I also saw on Huffpost yesterday that two of the kids are apologizing. Of course they’re apologizing, they know the whole world is looking at them as animals and assholes. If this never came out, would they be apologizing? Someone yesterday (Matt Lauer?) was saying if she retaliated verbally or did anything that one of the assholes would consider offensive, they’d be crying like little babies to the school and their mommies, and the mommies would be in the Principal’s office defending them and demanding she be fired. She said she does not want the kids to be charged but I think they should face some kind of action other than from the school.

I think video cameras on buses would be helpful, and the cameras should be reviewed on a regular basis and the kids’ families should have to sign a contract that spells out consequences for misbehavior on the bus. First offense, written warning. Second offense, written warning and detention. Third offense, no more riding the bus. When that’s clear from the get-go, the parents will likely back up the situation because they don’t want the inconvenience of having to deal with driving the kids or finding someone who can.

I think part of the problem, other than teenagers, hormones and mob mentality, is that kids are not taught to respect their elders. That lesson was drilled into my head as a kid. I don’t think that playing video games in all their spare time is good, either.

If they put in cameras, @jca, wouldn’t that eliminate the job of bus monitor?

I would guess a live person is needed other than the driver for emergencies, to make a call to 911 if need be? I am not sure. Or give her more authority. I don’t claim to be able to solve the problem.

I also think that seat belts on school busses might help a lot. These kids have been raised in the age of mandatory car seats. The one time they are really conditioned from birth to sit still is in the car. If they continued to be restrained in the bus their behavior might just improve.

The kids on this bus should be publicly horsewhipped.