When kids are caught misbehaving why does the first reaction tend to be to think they need to be hit more?

Because it seems like a simple, easy answer to the problem. Rather than having to get at the root of the problem, why not go with the easiest answer? Also because when people read “shocking” stories like that, their reaction is knee-jerk.

Well, I guess because they know from now on if they ever do that again, they know what the outcome is. But I find it really dumb for parents to hit their children when they’re already crying, because that will make them cry even more. That’s the one punishment I can’t stand. So, your punishment for crying is a spanking, so you can cry more? I really don’t like punishments like that. I mean, take something away from them, make them lose a privilege, don’t hit them and make it worse.

But I know my mothers first reaction was to count to three. The first time I didn’t understand why she even counted to three, then I found the outcome. I still to this day get called out with that.

But hitting is never the answer.

Spare the child the rod, spawn a lifetime of heresy!

I didn’t get that at all. One person said “spare the rod and spoil the child”. That doesn’t constitute most, in my opinion.
What I believe is that there are no negative consequences, and that is evident everywhere one looks. The upshot of children who grow up with no boundaries is adults with entitlement issues.
Assholes, in other words.
People who truly believe that the world is there for their own aggrandizement and that no one else is as important as they are. You see them in the store refusing to wait their turn, causing a scene way out of proportion to whatever minimal offense has set them off. You see them on the road, cutting people off and having road rage attacks over the most trivial incidences.
I recently posted about a girl who was a fb “friend” of mine. She had to stop/slow down on her way to work because of a wreck on the highway. fatalities and injuries were involved. She had “road rage” because of the inconvenience to her. This is not an unusual event. It happens with increasing frequency.
We as a nation are desensetized to the suffering of others in simple self defense. We are bombarded with images of devastation, death, and horror on a daily basis and have reached saturation point.
Parents are more concerned with being “pals” with their kids than being parents. God forbid if one of our children get angry with us, or think we’re not cool. We want them to win every contest, be the best at every competition at all costs. And not for any reason other than bragging rights. People live vicariously through their children, making sure they have things that they themselves did not have when they were kids.
More often than not, the kid isn’t the least interested or appreciative. And why should he be? This is something that is important to Dad, not the kid.
How many times have you heard someone say they would protect their kid from having to go to jail? What? What if the kid committed a crime? What message are we sending to our kids when we verbally castigate a teacher who has had to discipline them? When we save them from the negative consequences of their small infractions, how are we doing anything else but allowing them to escalate their behaviour with the same expectation of being shielded from the consequences? How does this help them to be good members of society?
Consequences does not mean physical pain necessarily. But it should be swift, definitive, consistent and something that the child does not want to happen.

They’ve forgotten that it didn’t work on them or, if it did, that they hated being beaten. It’s so so sad.

It isn’t everyone’s first reaction or even the majority I wager.

I am glad this topic came up. A few minutes ago I was out and on my way to a supermarket and I saw a stressed mum with her kiddies. The little boy who was around five, asked his mother to buy him something. His mum told him to leave it for the next morning which would be more convenient. The kid obnoxiously started yelling: ” Which part of what I said didn’t you understand!” The poor woman who had her hands full almost burst into tears asking him why he had spoken that way. The terror kid answered: “Cos you WILL do what I say!” The passers-by stared in amazement not able to believe what was happening!

Now, the way I see it is that a good smack on the backside would have put the little guy back in line. I am NOT talking about child battery!!!! Many of us got a slap or smack and it certainly did no harm, on the contrary it helped set some limits in some cases.

I don’t think they need to be beaten, they need to be parented.

@Trillian I wish I could give you 100 GAs for that answer.

@ZEPHYRA Smack on the backside? I would put that kid through severely traumatic child abuse.

I never got beaten, but I was a golden child.

Because hitting someone causes an immediate change in their behavior, and that is their only goal. For long time training, it is very ineffective.

Honestly, for long time training the best way is to ignore the child. If the child is in hysterics, do not acknowledge its existence. It’s not hungry or in severe physical or emotional discomfort if it’s not getting something as silly as a toy or a candy. My mom has told me that before.

@ZEPHYRA I think it is pretty safe to say that the mother in your story has done a great job of training her child to let him know he runs the show. In this case a hit on the backside probably would have produced nothing but more screaming and an escalation in the behavior.

@Trillian I am very open about the fact that I don’t hit my kids. Often when I share this fact I get looks of wonder and shock that they are well behaved respectful young men. I find myself in the minority on a regular basis; my parenting and my children are judged immediately when I admit that I have never used corporal punishment. The most common belief seems to be if kids aren’t hit they aren’t disciplined – in our case this couldn’t be further from the truth. I agree with you that punishment needs to consist of negative consequences. It needs to be firm, fair, and consistent and children need to be taught a code of ethics and conduct which they can internalize in order to make good choices. Their decisions about how to behave should not based on whether or not they will be punished, but on whether or not what they are doing is right.

@thesparrow ignoring has worked for me on more then one occasion! I saw a dad use it yesterday with a hysterical toddler. She screamed and screamed and that dad just acted like he was interested in everything but that kid. It took her about five minutes of howling and peaking at her father regularly to realize he wasn’t buying what she was selling. When she calmed down he picked her up, loved her and they went on with their business. Behavior extinguished – no hitting involved.

@SuperMouse Great father skills! Kudos to him. Lol, kids don’t have a lot of long-term memory. They’ll never remember that you were ignoring them. They’re more likely to remember a spank on the bum than being ignored in a grocery store.

@SuperMouse Nowhere did I say anything advocating hitting or any sort of physical discipline. The problem is that too many parents are not concerned with teaching their children about boundaies, propriety, and right and wrong. It’s all about “You don’t tell my kid what to do!”

I think there’s quite a bit of research on this. We don’t have to rely solely on our opinions.

People who know my opinion from previous discussions of this know I am categorically against hitting, no matter what you call it. No spanking. No love pats. Always sparing the rod.

Kids learn by imitation. When we hit them or spank them or whatever, they learn that is acceptable and that is how they try to relate to others kids, thereafter. That is also how they relate to their parents. Only since they don’t have power, they need to use other techniques, like passive resistance, or subterfuge. What they have learned is disrespect, not respect. No one hits anyone they respect. They discuss things.

I didn’t watch the video. I think there are special problems when we are talking about children who are not yours. With these middle schoolers, they need to be forbidden to ride the bus. That is a privilege they lose if they do not treat the monitor respectfully. Their parents will have to find other ways to get them to school.

Presumably, some of the parents will use spanking. There’s not much we can do about that at home. But if the kids misbehave, the parents could be required to attend a mandatory discipline training program before their kids are allowed to attend school again. They will not be allowed back on the bus. Period. Not that year.

That’s how I’d handle it. I’d also do some training with monitors, to teach them how to handle kids better. Things should never have escalated to that point, whatever that point was. Adults and kids need better training. Unfortunately, their parents often don’t give them good training. That does not mean the rest of us should throw up our hands in disgust and let them grow up to morons and petty criminals. We need to help educate kids in personal relations even if their parents can’t do it.

Because most people know too little about the way our minds work to accept that corporal punishments do not have any positive effects that can not be reached in a better more sustainable way through other child rearing techniques.

Punishment in general is not very effective. I dare to say that it is more a social mechanism to appease the group’s sense of fairness than it is a sincere attempt to influence a child’s behavior. (Fairness is an important part of our ethical / moral codes, so it shouldn’t be dismissed.)

As @wundayetta and others wrote, here and on other threads before, science has put forward a plethora of evidence that if your goal is to positively influence your child’s behavior in a durable way, then don’t hit them.

If people take the time to study the evidence and still want to hit their children, then they should realize that the only valid reason to indeed do so is to make oneself or the people around oneself feel better.

If my mom had learned I had said such mean things she would have told me how horrific my words were, how it is unnacceptable, that she is incredibly dissappointed, and she would have made me apologize to the woman, and I think she herself also would have apologized to the woman for my actions. I would have felt like shit knowing what I did was so mean spitirited and how disapproving my mother was. It would have made me feel awful to see my mom go to the woman and have to apologize for me, along with me. I would not have needed to be hit or even punished, although being grounded somehow would not be out of line in my opinion. Any kid who doesn’t feel bad once being caught, and their actions pointed out to them needs more than a hit, a hit will not make them better people inside where it really matters. Hopefully they would have felt bad even if not caught, but sometimes children need help to recognize what they have done.

I like @wundayatta‘s suggestion also, that maybe forbidding them to ride the bus the rest of the year is in order.

A lot of people feel kids today don’t have consequences, and they think the threat of corporal punishment will keep kids in line. That is why the topic comes up, because there is more and more a movement that is against corporal punishment, so those who believe in it feel unfairly criticised and feel the government is getting in their personal life as a parent, or simply they feel unfairly judged for utilizing corporal punishment. So, when they see an opportunity to justify corporal punishment they grab it.

I wonder if any of those children who said horrible things have parents who hit them?

Well, I was raised with numerous methods of spankings being administered, I was scared of both of my parents. I did my best to not resort to spankings when I was raising my own children, although I must admit that out of anger I did spank them on occasion. However, I did my best to not spank them. They are grown now & they appear to have turned out fine.

I honestly don’t think most of the people who suggest beating kids at school actually think when they say that. I don’t think they mean it. It’s a knee jerk response that pops out of their mouth whenever they hear something about public schools they don’t like.

It’s usually the same people saying this that have gems like “If we had an electrified fence that killed people who tried to cross the border, that would solve our immigration problems” They just pontificate and spout off garbage they got from soundbites and think it’s clever and pithy to say.

@keobooks They are dead serious here in the midsouth. They still do it in some school districts. Sometimes the parent signs a form saying they approve corporal punishment to be used. I guess the school wants to cover itself in case the parents tries to say they are against it after their child is hit.

My friends up north just talk about the threat of the punishment, but i don’t think they actually want their child to get hit.

That’s not the first reaction. You may be speaking about yourself, but don’t speak for everyone; it’s certainly not my first reaction.

@MollyMcGuire if you read the question then you know I am not speaking for myself. I do not claim to be speaking for you either. I am speaking to what I see as a pervasive pattern among armchair parenting experts.

I find that “people” have many opinions on how to parent other people’s children. They’re not personally responsible for the little buggers so they can opine to their heart’s content as they don’t have a dog in the fight (so to say).

The plain truth is that we have no idea how any of those children are being parented. We don’t know the history between the bus supervisor and the kids. Nor the relationship and history between each of the students.

Almost all of my friends, who have children, find corporal punishment reprehensible. We all know there are so many other, more effective, ways of parenting.

Hit them with a 2×4. Don’t if it’s a girl, though.