Why don't dogs (animals) have minds?

She is starting on an unfounded assumption, namely the assumption that animals do not have minds.
Other apes certainly have minds, so do elephants and dolphins. Also you can not with certainty exclude dogs or sea lions.

I’m not really sure how to answer this. By “minds” is she thinking “souls”?

Edit: Ahh, okay. Never really knew there was a huge distinction between the use of “mind” and “brain” in common English, but I see the point now.

I think that animals have minds, but they just can’t speak to us in our language,
Probably think that they know so much more than us, that telling us anything is a waste of time!
Take ‘instinct’ for example: we don’t seem to have much of that but an animal is packed with it.
Personally, I can’t get MY mind round that!

To me, a mind is a brain, so I’m assuming she means consciousness or souls. Then, you could maybe tell her neurologists still don’t know how these things work.

From the wiki: “A mind (play /ˈmaɪnd/) is the complex of cognitive faculties that enables consciousness, thinking, reasoning, perception, and judgement…”

I think dogs/animals definitely possess these traits. This is just the generic definition though.

Because Descartes was a human, and he got to decide who has a mind and who doesn’t. So dogs are SOL:

“I know that animals do many things better than we do, but this does not surprise me. It can even be used to prove that they act naturally and mechanically, like a clock which tells the time better than our judgement does. Doubtless when the swallows come in spring, they operate like clocks. The actions of honeybees are of the same nature; so also is the discipline of cranes in flight, and of apes in fighting, if it is true that they keep discipline. Their instinct to bury their dead is no stranger than that of dogs and cats which scratch the earth for the purpose of burying their excrement; they hardly ever actually bury it, which shows that they act only by instinct and without thinking. The most that one can say is that though the animals do not perform any action which shows us that they think, still, since the organs of their bodies are not very different from ours, it may be conjectured that there is attached to these organs some thought such as we experience in ourselves, but of a very much less perfect kind. To this I have nothing to reply except that if they thought as we do, they would have an immortal soul like us. This is unlikely, because there is no reason to believe it of some animals without believing it of all, and many of them such as oysters and sponges are too imperfect for this to be credible.”

I work with dogs and see them make decisions based on consequence all the time. A lot of the training we do enables them to work out for themselves what we are asking for them. For example, they soon learn that if they sit in certain situations they get a treat, if they stay standing, they don’t. Dogs in class will often offer a sit without us asking for it as they have learned that this action gets them something nice. I think this ability to learn and remember things in this way means they must have a mind unless I am confused on what a mind really is.

To everyone here, thank you. Her question was in regards to whether they think the way we do in the sense that they are as intelligent as humans. She was under the impression that they are. She was not referring to “souls”, but perhaps more along the lines of the critical and cognitive abilities humans have, which has separated us from them.

Of course animals have minds, they think, problem solve, and make choices every bit as much as humans.
What they don’t have is EGO! They live in the present moment, deal with what happens and move on. If they were humans their egos would make up a “story” about how good/bad, wrong, unfair, their experiences were/are, and then, they would tell this story forever.
“Oooh, I was born a poor black puppy…....” lol

They do have minds. They have feelings, thoughts and memories just like we do. We just can’t speak their language although my dog and I communicate pretty well.

@Coloma Is this the philosophical ego of a conscious thinking subject, the psychoanalytical ego, or the self-esteem/self-importance? Just to be clear.

@whiteliondreams It’s all ego…just different manifestations. lol
Mostly it would be the part of ego that revels in the story of “me.” Animals aren’t attached to any self stories. :-) If you yell at your dog they FEEL a vibe of displeasure but they don’t lay around for days with low self esteem about what bad dogs they are. haha

@Coloma I’m in no position to make specific claims regarding an animal’s sense of self, but I would think that social animals living in groups with hierarchical systems would have a sense of self, if only relative to their group.

@fundevogel That may be, but it still wouldn’t be like a humans ego, they wouldn’t be telling themselves that they deserve better than their station. Back to the poor black puppy. lol
I often wonder when human ego really kicked in, in our species development. I can see it now, Mr. & Mrs. Grog peering out of their cave enviously at their cave neighbors who just brought home a mastodon for dinner and feeling a sense of sadness, envy and anger that all they managed to wrangle up for dinner was a big lizard. hahaha

They do have minds. What is it that your daughter was asking, exactly?

@Coloma That makes me wonder at what point in cognitive evolution a consciousness picks up those characteristics and what leads up to it neurologically. Scientists! Get on it!

they have minds, they can think, and reason, and figure things out. They can recognize people, remember things. They have a mind, I have no doubt.

Who knows, maybe animal’s minds are way more complex than ours and in reality animals are playing with us and they are the masters of the universe. Who knows?

Say what!!!!????? On the contrary dear flutherite!

Humans don’t either. There is just brain. Mind is a philosophical illusion.

@Rarebear I am about to ask that question in our sea (network)

Dogs certainly have minds, why else do they immediately look for someone else to blame when they fart? Uh-huh, answer that one & stay fashionable.
Dolphins are basically sharks that laugh, just thought i’d drop that in there, for no good reason.

I guess it would depend on your definition of a mind. I suspect that by most definitions, a dog would be considered to have a mind.

@tups That’s cats you are referring to there!

Anyone who has spent any time around animals knows that some animals are thinking, loving creatures. More so than people, at times.

I ask my dog to bring me her “tire” and she looks around for it and brings it over to me. I know that has a lot to do with conditioning but I really never drilled and pushed the issue other than heap a lot of praise for doing that. I don’t think any mindless creature could do that. I’m not some anal dog obedience expert and don’t really care for dumb animal tricks so the only way this could have happened is because the other party is pretty sharp.

Dogs & cats have minds & can think. All animals have minds & can think. That they do not think on the same level as do people is because their world is more simplistic.

@Leanne1986 Oh, I wasn’t referring to any specific animal, although maybe it’s cats, who knows. I went for a walk the other day and this cat kept following me, it was really scary. I tried to make it go away, but man, it was scary, so I just ran. You’re probably right.

@tups
maybe it was this cat

I don’t think dogs have a sense of past/present/future (cats might) but they can certainly put together actions and consequences in a way that seems mindful.

When I recently left town for 10 days, my housesitter reported that the small dog (not generally regarded for his intellect) spent all of those days sitting in the bathroom, looking mournful. That would be reasonable, considering when I leave his sight it’s generally to that room, and from that room I eventually emerge.

True intellect would seem to dictate that he would give up after not getting results, at least after 4 days or so. He put together “things that are true”, but beyond that, he could not reason.

So I would say that our domestic animals have a mind, yes. Capacity for thought, yes. Logical thought? Maybe not so much.

I had a Belgian shepherd named Arwin, but the neighborhood kids couldn’t quite master that and soon after Star Wars debuted, she became R1 to everyone, myself and her included. She definitely had an active brain. She knew lots of words. I loved in LA at the time, and two of her favorite things to do in the world were to go to Venice Beach where dogs could run free and chase the waves, and to go up the Angel’s Crest highway into the mountains to frolic there, particularly when they were snow covered.

If I had my car windows rolled down and simply said, “R1, want to go to the beach/mountains?” she would tear off to the car, make a great jump, and land in position in the back seat ready to go. If I asked if she wanted to go for a walk, she’d go get her leash and bring it to me. If I didn’t ask soon enough, she’d bring it and deliver it to me, then gently take my hand in her mouth and lead me to the front door.

What I think your little one was getting at is her growing sense that humans are sentient in a way other animals currently are not. You might show her some videos of animals demonstrating their intelligence. Here are a few examples worth watching. Show her the Sledding Crow, the African Raven working a puzzle, Japanese Crows learning to use traffic and watch crosswalk signs to crack and eat nuts, and this compilation that shows the top 5 animal IQ list.

Here are some additional facts about animal intelligence.

Dogs do have minds, and dogs can think and they can react in what they feel are emergency situations! They know when they are in pain, and will love the person who helps them to. so they must ponder in their minds.

Everyone here is taking my question way too personally. I didn’t ask if animals are intelligent. I am quite certain they are as I have a Chihuahua who, last night, tapped his paw to the front of floor beneath him indicating for us to drop what we had in our hands. So, yes, I know animals are intelligent and can process data similarly to humans when it comes to danger. However, now we are looking at the question in a different perspective. In another post, the mind is defined as self-awareness. A cognitive process of the brain acknowledging the self. Ok, got it. I agree with @Coloma on the self concept, but I must disagree with @fundevogel in assuming the opposite. Just because there is a hierarchy does not mean that they acknowledge the self; instead, they are perhaps acknowledging the environment and respecting it because of repercussions and consequences. What you are talking about now are the social dynamics of psychology and I do not have the knowledge to discuss such to great extents.

Of course dogs and other animals have minds. Eight year old children have minds don’t they?

@flutherother I would be more careful of the words you choose regardless of your intentions.

@whiteliondreams There was no intention to offend.