Happy 4th of July to USA jellies. Would you have the courage to write and/or sign something equivalent to the Declaration of Independence?

They didn’t really have a choice. Live free or die, brosie. :)

I would be hard pressed to compare myself to such brave men and women who stood up for their beliefs and convictions. I’ve fought city hall a time or two in my life, but it is hard for me to imagine what it was like in that day and age. I think our ancestors were really remarkable people. We come from good stock.

We may find out the answer to this sooner than we think. I have a few concerns which I don’t care to verbalize on a public forum. Though I don’t by any stretch consider my importance in the relative scheme of things to be anywhere near equivalent to our founding Fathers.
I hope that I would have the courage to risk my self to do what I believe to be right.

No doubt I would. As long as I’m drunk doing it. In all honesty.

If something was important enough to me that I personally would fight (as opposed to sending others) then yes. Signing would seem like the symbolic extension of that.

Happy 4th! Sure. I would (and do) sign things that are important to me.

I registered Democrat during the Bush administration, so I believe I took a similar risk.

Who gives a crap if they were brave?

They signed a piece of paper. There is nothing brave about that act. The people signing the piece of paper were not the ones fighting in the war and risking their lives. They were not the ones who had to suffer through hell on battlefields and watch their friends die, or their limbs get amputated. The founding fathers might have been hanged if they lost the war, but as aristocrats they still had a good shot of making it our alive.

Furthermore, why are we commending their bravery? You know what takes even more bravery? Picking up an AK-47 and shooting at American soldiers who are invading your country, like Taliban members do every day. But I don’t give a shit that the Taliban are “brave” because the ideology they are fighting for is bronze-age savagery. In the case of the founding fathers, the ideology they were fighting for (or rather, commanding others to fight for) happened to be quite enlightened for the time… which is why we should admire them.

As for our “ancestors being really remarkable people and good stock” ... well, most of them were slave-owners. Thomas Jefferson, who I actually admire a lot otherwise, nevertheless raped one of his slaves. In fact, Great Britain, the evil empire from whom we were rebelling, made slavery illegal half a century before America did. Also, few of the founding fathers thought women should have remotely the same rights as men. Many were bigoted against Catholics and Jews. (And needless to say, @bkcunningham, they are probably not your ancestors.)

The founding fathers were not “the good guys” from a goddamn GI Joe cartoon. They were complicated people who lived in an alien culture, and they likely were just as different from one another in their political and religious beliefs as @bkcunningham and me probably are.

@Qingu – you seem to have a complaint (or a list of complaints) but I’m not clear on what it is.

Are you just ranting? Do you just want me to know how limited and trite my respect for people who built something I value is?

If you have problems, what are the solutions? Would you rather I reflect more on the negatives of those same people and give them equal time? Would you like me to not honor anyone with faults? Do you have special knowledge of the leaders of that period you’d like to share?

As always, it’s easy to tear people and ideas down. I’ll always value those who envision and build instead.

My problem is twofold: I think “bravery” is an overrated virtue (see al-Qaeda), and I dislike worshiping ancestors and historical figures, which is what this topic often amounts to.

By all means, let’s honor the founding father’s contribution to civilization. But let’s not forget that they were flawed human beings, and that their ideas have been improved upon greatly.