Have you ever thought about the military-mind-set?

@Linda_Owl: Do you really think that if someone “points out the inconsistencies of US policy” they risk of being thrown in jail? (your wording)

Yes @jca , I do. Protestors, anti-war demonstrators, ect. have been thrown in jail & there have been laws passed that forbid these protestors, demonstrators, from even being in the same area as anyone who has secret service protection…. even if they do not know that the individuals are in the area – they have been arrested & put in jail. Law Enforcement gives every appearance of being glad to arrest these protestors/demonstrators.

Follow the money. Nothing creates more jobs than defense spending. Nothing generates more lobbying dollars than lobbyists for defense contractors. Nothing generates more support for defense spending than a perceived threat to our country. Nothing generates more votes than a politician appearing to deal with a perceived threat.

The immediate reality is many of these bases we currently have are in countries we have marginal if not tenuous relationships with and to close them would in many instances close off any chance of getting access to that country in the future if and when we need military hardware or support in that region. So it is much cheaper, safer and more prudent in the larger picture of things to keep them open. Plus a majority of the reason we are able to maintain these bases abroad because of the positive impact American Dollars have on these local economies. They love us as long as we spend money there. Close the bases and in many cases they lose the incentive to love us and then terrorist training camps become an attractive suitor.

The U.S. has been in its empire building phase for a long time. We occupied the Philippines and also Haiti in the early 20th century.

President Eisenhower said, “Beware the military/industrial complex.” Industry is where the jobs are. The military are the ones who spend extravagantly on over priced items that would cost half as much if you bought them at your local hardware store. What would the manufacturer do without their military customers? What ended the Great Depression of the 1930’s? World War II. It put people to work making fighting equipment; put women to work doing what the men had been doing. So when the war ended, and the men came back from war, there weren’t the same jobs available; women didn’t go back to doing mostly housekeeping. Our whole economic balance was askew. What to do? Let’s try a Korean War, a Vietnamese War. War is good for business.

The United States is the safest country in the world. It borders the Atlantic Ocean, the Pacific Ocean (the clue is in the name) and Canada and yet it spends $700 Billion every year on ‘defence’. That is as much as the next 15 countries military expenditures combined. It is absurd aggressive posturing that costs every man woman and child in the United States the sum of $2,000 every year.

@flutherother: It probably costs the taxpayers more per person, as the non-tax payers (i.e. the people receiving public assistance) are not paying anything at all, therefore, the “pieces of the pie” per person are actually larger.

It is what destroyed the Roman Empire, but people never learn.

Actually, @bookish1 , the first time that the US tried to build its Empire was in the War of 1812 when they tried ( & failed ) to take over Canada. At the time Canada was still a part of England & the US thought it would be a simple thing to accomplish. However, the Native-Americans had already had more than enough of the treaty-breaking Americans & they chose to fight along-side of the British Canadians. Before it was over, the British Canadians, with the Native-Americans, managed to burn Washington ! Unfortunately for the Native-Americans, the Canadians did not keep any of the promises that they made to the Native-Americans any better than did the Americans.

I spent 12 years in the Navy and only got out because of my wife’s insistence. Virtually every veteran that I know has a very liberal “mindset”. They are against needless wars, and all of these wars on terror, war on drugs, etc. The militant people I know were never in the military. I am sure that if a veteran was in the White House we would not be stuck in Afghanistan or would never have invaded Iraq.

The problems we are having with excess military solutions is because of the Military Industrial Complex that Eisenhower warned us about. When your business is war, you insure that you have a lot of business.

@Ron_C You know, a vet did say once that we would be in Iraq for “100 years” if that was what it took..

Yeah, there’s always the politician in the higher ranks. There are very few below the rank of Colonel that wants to be there.

@Ron_C My Sis ia a Lt Col and she has complained since she was a LT on how “they” put pressure and incentives for her to stay on. The more promoted she became the more rote and mundane the chore became. She wanted out a long time ago but felt “obligated” to tow the line.

Yeah, @Cruiser I saw that even as a senior enlisted. I think that there is a certain point where military “mind” flips. It is always in the higher ranks and there are always those that resist the politicization of their military office.

Joe Sestak is an example of a person that rose the the rank of Admiral but maintained his military mind and wanted to improve our country and get us out of un-necessary wars.

Of course he lost to a guy with tons of money and a career lobbyist. There is not much of a chance to restore democracy in this country.

@ragingloli, I thought Christianity destroyed the Roman Empire. :)

@Linda_Owl, I don’t think this is news. Eisenhower complained about the military-industrial complex in 1961.

Personally I think it just goes with the course of being a hegemon. The hegemon is a hegemon precisely because it has a monopoly on force. I am not sure the world would be a better place if America suddenly abolished the Department of Defense. For me, the more important question is how we use that force. How many innocent lives do we kill with it, vs. how many innocent lives do we protect. That said, Jesus Christ, why the f do we have eleven aircraft carriers.

@Qingu , I know that this is not news…. I am trying to understand where the United States is heading & ( like you ) I want to know why we need to go to war with every Tom, Dick, & Harry that comes along & why so many innocent people have to die & who are we protecting? As for having eleven aircraft carriers, as long as the military gets most of the tax dollars from America, they will spend the tax dollars however they see fit to spend them & if that means having ELEVEN aircraft carriers – then that is what they will have ( to go along with the 1,000 military bases we have in 156 countries ! ). I am not advocating that we abolish the Dept. of Defense, but I would like to see the military budget cut & at least half of the 1,000 military bases closed & I would like to see the tax dollars spent on things that America actually NEEDS ( like infrastructure repairs, up-grades to education, & better Health Care ).

Trust me, the military isn’t in control of jack shit.

Part of the reason I got out of the Navy was that it was so fucking political. The military is full of people who want to serve their country yet wind up serving their country’s leaders who, in turn, have their own agendas. (Note that I am not talking about just the government; I also include individuals and corporations that influence them.) I went in to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic, yet it turned out that my employer was controlled by a domestic enemy.

The military is just a bunch of pawns. They don’t make orders, they take them. And while speaking out against your boss may get you fired, a military person speaking out against theirs risks far worse; has your boss ever placed you under house arrest? (The Navy calls it “Restriction”, as you are restricted to your duty station.) And don’t even think about doing something like attending a rally!

The military is limited. The POTUS is also called Commander in Chief for a reason; the military is nothing more than a part of the Executive branch of the US government. The military doesn’t call the shots; the POTUS does, and he calls them based on whatever forces push him a certain way.

Many of the people in the military feel the same way you do… but it’s a steady paycheck in a time where jobs are scarce.

@Linda_Owl : Right you are. I don’t know much about the war of 1812 :-/ Thank you for teaching me! Where I was growing up, the American occupation of Haiti and subsequent support/sheltering of her ousted dictators was a very tangible reality.

I agree with @Ron_C & @jerv – I was in the Navy for 8 years. The majority of people I knew weren’t in support of fighting any pointless wars (which most are unless you happen to be the crew of folks at the end of the money trail). The military is a pawn of money hungry folks for the most part & in general so much money is made from
war (for certain people) there’s easy justification for it on that level.

If the military were driving it all rather than the opposite (as far as the average military individual goes) our country would never be where it is simply because there’s be a lot more attention to detail & structure & a lot less lazy bastards who manage to screw up society by stealing from the people at the upper levels down to the people benefitting from ass kissing & golfing with the bosses on the middle levels to the douche balls who can’t manage the basics of customer service at the lower levels. We’d have folks who did their jobs & were more frequently forwarded in their careers based in merit as opposed to manipulation & brown nosing & nepotism etc.

As far as the whole recruits are told they’re fighting for our freedoms that’s not completely accurate. We are/were told that we were fighting for freedom
in general – meaning also the freedom of others. The great lie in all of that is that most Americans swallow the pill & blindly run the matrix under the stupid assumption that democracy & freedom are the same thing & under the idiotic ignorance that Americans are actually free when the fact is there’s laws restricting so many of us from doing things under the guise of our own protection despite the fact half that crap hurts no one accept perhaps ourselves in the end anyway. The ignorance that falls for such a lie is what the problem is – ya got politicians & corporations who have a bigger picture & it is they who drive the machine by voting away education measures in order to keep “the people” at a level where they fall for anything & can be easily distracted & pacified. And the resulting ignorance of the average American results in a mass group of people who are more emotionally swayed than morally & logically swayed & who like the groundlings they are become entertained by tgings which feed their physical pleasures & in turn the combination of their guilt (thanks to the lies their religions tell them) & their ignorance (thanks to good ole uncle sam’s manipulation of our education system) results in the average american puppet easily maneuvered & manipulated by emotional distractions that trick them into race debates & pressure them
out of guilt to claim that the removal of freedoms from their own people as well as others & that fighting for corporations to have more of your money is actually patriotic despite the fact that the average American struggles month to month to make it while politicians & corporations who drive the machine sit fat & happy in the luxury car on the gravy train built for them voluntarily on the backs of the average (in more ways than one) American.

Besides the extremely influential military-industrial complex, there is a management mindset that came out of the military after we won WWII. It has mellowed out somewhat by now, at least in rhetoric, but for decades after that war, a lot of the people running corporations had come from military experience and drove them with a campaign style as if lives are at stake.

One of the most unfortunate aspects of a war style is the ignorance of collateral damage. Winning the current battle in the marketplace, no matter what the consequences, is the way companies like Walmart are run, and it shows in the devastation to local economies for the sake of the corporation’s goals.