Have you witnessed blatant sexism in your workplace and how do you handle it?

I’m not too bright. When I encounter it I put my head down and take it on head on. I call the men on it.

Do they speak to you?

@Imadethisupwithnoforethought I don’t leave the office, so I never see them.

Wait how do you know?

She has told me and the physician assistant (female) has witnessed it. Also, by noon, the male physician noticed and commented on it without even knowing the situation.

@chyna I am sorry. I never see this, and I worked as a stockbroker and in IT. I understand completely that a generation or two ago, men were dicks in many cases to women. The fact of the matter is today more women are bosses than men.

I understand women still feel victimized, but in the few cases I have been in a room talking about the hot office girl, it was my boss telling me he had to ask a girl with an attractive body to stop wearing clothes that were so revealing as to be against corporate policy.

Even in the story you are telling, one of the male doctors sees some of this crap, thinks the other guys are being dicks, and is standing up for the woman in his office.

This reminds me of the question early today, which asked about white men feeling victimized. I am not sure the trend lines support that men are still treating women second class at work.

@Imadethisupwithnoforethought So you seem to be saying that women are asking for discrimination because they are dressing slutty?

No. I am saying, we absolutely never talk in secret that women are worse employees than men. What I am saying, is men are so afraid to be even thought of that way that my bosses would agonize for days how to tell the girl who was wearing skirts so short women were complaining to him that he needed to talk to her about what he could say without sounding sexist. For men in an office environment, being accused of being sexist is as bad as being thought of as racist. Nobody wants to be that guy.

I think women are experiencing the same crappy office politics men have always experienced, which is super crappy, and assuming it must be easier for the men somehow.

Can she network with other female doctors? Sometimes, other female docs are ok with teaming up and helping each other out.

Other than that.. call it out? (I realize that the vast majority of men would rather chew off their own arm than admit that they might have said something sexist a couple times or have some implicit bias, so not exactly some immediate cure-all.) Keep going to events (dinners, conferences, etc) where she can keep trying to get allies, maybe someone whom she skies with on weekends…

@Aethelflaed should the male doctors ban together in a similar fashion to the one you would suggest?

@Imadethisupwithnoforethought Pretty sure they already have…

@Aethelflaed no, you have assumed they have, and are acting defensively. What we know of the facts of this story indicate that at least one man in the office is worried that this woman may be being excluded and has decided to stick up for her, in addition to @chyna and this other lady.

I am hearing a story of a successful woman, who is currently a frieken manager at a healthcare center, saying that she would be even more successful if the men who are competing for the same jobs as her and have been there longer would be nicer to her, and a bunch of women rushing to take her side

@Imadethisupwithnoforethought I’m acting defensively? You don’t know the situation beyond what @chyna describes, and yet are going out of your way to deny that sexism is happening in her situation, or that sexism happens on a regular and systematic level in two of the most notoriously sexist industries (medicine and IT). How would you answer this question if you could just assume, for the sake of the question, that chyna is capable of telling when there is discrimination, and that there is discrimination going on, and that was not some big question up for debate?

Yes, one male doctor commented on it. And yet, he is not the only male there – the others are still not talking to this woman, not letting her do her job much less advance in it. And yes, they have already organized – they are already part of the preexisting institution, both formal and informal.

I am answering because Chyna told me how old this female doctor is.

And she could have made director at her age either based on her mad Doctor House like skills, or because she is very adept at making people take her gender into account when selecting positions.

@Aethelflaed women, right now, make up 55% of management staff. At what level of management staff would you stop advocating women to band together and promote other women over men? 75%? 95%?

No. I can’t say I have ever witnessed blatant sexism anywhere I have worked. Have I heard people make generalizations about female vs male workers at work? Yes. But, actually use a generalization when dealing with an individual? No.

I think @Aethelflaed is right @chyna, unless she wants to escalate things by reporting it to a higher level, getting together with other female doctors and discussing her concerns is action she can take. I would suggest looking for established female mentors. I work for a university and there are certain elements where the ‘boys club’ is alive and kicking. If she can connect in with women who are further up the chain of command, they may be able to help her break down some of these barriers.

@Imadethisupwithnoforethought perhaps I missed something or you are privy to information not provided here but I haven’t seen where one of the male doctors is standing up for his female colleague. I see a new male doctor has started, is being courted by the other male docs and has noticed the behaviour but not where anyone has stood up against this discriminatory behaviour. Unless he is actively trying to include her or talking to his new male colleagues about their behaviour, how is he standing up for her? His actions just seem to affirm there is a real problem.

@Bellatrix “Also, by noon, the male physician noticed and commented on it without even knowing the situation.”

I take this to mean that at least one male doctor had noticed people were being cold to the lady doctor and commented on it. Totally a stretch on my part to assume this guy will take her side go forwards, agreed.

Commented to whom? That’s my point. Did he comment on it to the female doctor or to Chyna or to the male doctors who are excluding the female doctor? Commenting on it to people who are already aware of the problem doesn’t do anything to alleviate the situation, it just confirms the problem exists. And no, I don’t think that because he is aware of it he will act on this knowledge. He is new to the position, new to the group and may choose to turn a blind eye because he doesn’t want to jeopardize his own opportunities in the future. Not everyone is prepared to stand up and rock the boat.

This female doctor, does she have a position higher than the rest of the other doctors? I’m a little confused.

I have noticed that men always deny that this happens, I wonder why that is??? But in fact it does happen and not only in the office, it is in the home, on the street, everywhere. It is a sad fact. But there are more female doctors graduating these days than males so soon the tides will be turning. I think this woman just has to grin and bear it in the mean time, making a fuss will just fuel the sexist fires of these male jerks. She should do her best and excel at her job and that is the best revenge. Females are now doing better than males in school so society is going to change the way boys are being taught. Now more women winning gold medals than males, guess we will have to change the way sports are taught too. Birth control and tampons freed women to take on the world and we are winning!

I worked in a completely male dominated field (landscaping/lawn care) for years, and hell yeah, I noticed a lot of sexism in that environment. It was much more direct than your situation, @chyna, which in some ways made it a lot easier to address. Women weren’t shut out, we were blatantly harassed. What worked best in that situation was being a tough, funny, likable person… basically, giving as good as I got. When a male employee put his hands on my female employee in a suggestive manner, though, I reamed him a new asshole. Of course, this was in a far less professional setting than a hospital.

If I were getting deliberately ignored while speaking, I think I’d move until I was directly in front of the person’s face and call him on it, but in a lighthearted way. Something like, “Yoo-hoo, is anyone in there? I need you to listen to me.”

Fortunately, I worked for a company where the culture was built on a zero tolerance policy of discrimination. Should a case arise, it was dealt with fairly swiftly. While the executive level was predominantly men, there weren’t rumors about any of them treating women any differently in the workplace.

I noticed that who co-workers chose to dine with in the lunch cafeteria was an interesting way to take the temperature. Sometimes, it was an informal business meeting, but more often than not, people met up with co-workers that were friends. It was rare to see all of one sex, or gender for that matter, sitting at the same table.

While I realize that sexism exists, as do other types of discrimination, I feel that it is easy to jump to a conclusion that it is based upon a physical feature, like gender or skin color or age. Each situation needs to be assessed on its own.

Actually, never in the 25 years of my professional life. Not even in the US. Not even when riding an elevator which I was told not to, if there’s just one woman inside. I always ignored the recommendation. No woman ever touched me. All were well behaved. And so was I.