If you're against homosexuality (some Christians), and feel as though I shouldn't act on my homosexual feelings, does this mean that I'm supposed to be miserable for the rest of my life?
I am a woman and I have no interest in sleeping nor marrying a man. So, now what?
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Not necessarily miserable, but yeah. Mostly we’d be content if you’d leave the culture alone.
Though it’s not unreasonable for the unsaved to act unsaved, so…
In Catholicism, not acting on sexual desires would set you into a path of Sisterhood.
I strongly believe no one in the world has the right to tell any other person how to live their life or to force any other person to accept their views on anything.
“Though it’s not unreasonable for the unsaved to act unsaved, so…”
It certainly wouldn’t save me from misery. ^^
“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” Gandhi
@Mama_Cakes You know, I once heard a theory that said Jesus was gay. Of course it’s all just guessing around, but I thought it was interesting. I once said that to a very religious person I know and she became quite angry.
From here, the treatment is to take you from your home by force and send you to a re-education camp, usually abroad so that the environment makes brainwashing re-education a little easier, eventually you will submit and behave in an acceptable manner.
God loves you and does not care whom you have sex with, how often, or if a man or woman, or whom you marry.I know this from experience.
Most of you on here make me laugh. Ridiculous.
@Mama_Cakes I think a famed philosopher once said “Don’t worry. Be Happy”
Funny thing is, both my g/f and I are Christian.
I was raised Catholic and still believe. I believe that God loves us all.
I truly do
@Mama_Cakes How, then, do you square with the bits in the New Testament that clearly mark off homosexuality as immoral, un-Christian behavior? #curious
Following one’s natural inclinations has never been part of the Christian philosophy. Christianity starts from the basic premise that our natural inclinations are inherently flawed. That’s why you get stuff like Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians: “I brow-beat my body, and bring it into subjection”.
@Nullo Mostly we’d be content if you’d leave the culture alone. Which culture is that? The culture of bigotry and suppression of basic rights?
That’s the problem with the anti-gay movement.
First off, they think you are subhuman, and therefore do not have ‘normal’ feelings.
Everything else follows. If you are subhuman (in their words, not normal) then they can deny that you have emotions, needs, etc. And they could care less what you feel, because, once again, you are not human to them.
Keep in mind that they tried to do this to Obama the last couple of years – first, he is a monkey, then he is not white, then he is not a citizen—all in an attempt to dehumanize the man. Because once he is dehumanized, then they can criticize with a good conscience.
Scum.
@syz No, the one where we don’t accept homosexuality as Right and Good, but rather one of those things that happens.
@Nullo
My belief in religious freedom means that I support your right to practice whatever you want and in no way infringes on any legal or tax implications or laws.
Your religious belief directly infringes on many, many legal and tax implications for a great many people, creating an environment in which a minority group is at best treated as second class citizens and at worst subjected to hate crimes and discrimination.
See the difference?
I have a very libertarian take on most things, and as I don’t have a religion at the moment:
Anything you do short of harming another person is free game.
That said, I do think that most fundamentalists would see you permanently suppress your sexuality. Out of that group I think some would have you wait until Jesus magically changes you and you marry someone who is a deacon that looks like Ken.
Yes, that is the gist of what you’re supposed to do. It’s not fair, but it’s the way it is. Of course, although the Bible doesn’t say it, many Christians believe that you’re supposed to try and rid yourself of homosexual desires and become heterosexual.
@syz The main issue is that you and I have different ideas of what is wrong. I think that homosexuality is wrong, and so not something that we, as a culture, should accept or encourage. I, personally, would have no problem modifying our law regarding non-marital issues. I’d keep the tax benefits, though I’d make it a requirement for the married couple to have kids before they take effect, since that’s what they were for in the first place.
creating an environment in which a minority group is at best treated as second class citizens and at worst subjected to hate crimes and discrimination.
A homosexual person has all of the rights and privileges as a heterosexual person. If such a person insists on making their perversion public, then they get what they get. I also have no tolerance for nudists.
@Nullo: ”@syz The main issue is that you and I have different ideas of what is wrong.”
No. I suspect that @syz and you have different ideas of what makes something “wrong”. Many of us feel that “wrong” (in the moral sense) has to do with the implications of real human happiness and suffering. Your “wrong” is a something else.
@Nullo: “A homosexual person has all of the rights and privileges as a heterosexual person. If such a person insists on making their perversion public, then they get what they get.”
Wow. Just wow. I’m really hoping I am reading this wrong.
@Nullo Can you quote the part in the Bible that says homosexuality is wrong? Just curious.
Great question tups, i was just wondering that myself, not believing in a god in any form makes it difficult to call myself a christian, but i was raised RC and have read both testaments when i was young. I dont remember anything that says homosexuality is wrong. My view of christianity is more love thy neighbour type stuff, so i consider myself to live a more christian lifestyle than most that claim to be.
Funnily, i do remember a bit about it being wrong to shave the sides of my beard, yet never once been subject to abuse despite having a goatee for half my life.
I asked a friend this question because I am straight with gay friends and believe God is love, thus we are all his children no matter what.
His dad is a preacher, and he said they welcome gay people into their church and teach them to live the ‘biblical’ life which is to be straight, and several gay people are now married in a heter relationship.
Isn’t that crazy?! They brainwash these people I guess!
@tups and @anatidaephobiac – No, @Nullo is correct. The bible is pretty clear about homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, for starters).
It’s also very much opposed to wearing garments made of mixed fabrics (Deuteronomy 22:11).
@Nullo: ”@tom_g Practically a semantic difference.”
If this comment is in response to my comment about the concept of “wrong”, you are way off. This is as far from semantics as we can get. Building a secular ethics that is directly tied to real life consequences is the complete opposite of defining something as “wrong” simply because it has been declared as such. God could have declared standing on one leg on Sundays as “wrong”, and we might have seen amputees suffering what homosexuals are going through today.
There a bunch of Catholics who don’t discriminate.
Also, I don’t believe everything that I read in the bible.
I still believe in God. I just choose not to go to church. I am spiritual, most definitely.
Like I said, my God is a loving God.
@tom_g In any case, the mixed-fiber law is different in its purpose from the anti-homosexuality law. Its function was to set the Jews apart from their neighbors, whereas the other one was because God doesn’t like homosexuality.
I, as it happens, am not Jewish.
By my reckoning, the divine standard is the only one that’s going to matter.
I try not to judge others and I truly have respect for all religions and those who do not believe. Have at it. I just don’t want your beliefs affecting my ability to marry and have a happy life. If you don’t want to sleep with someone of the same-sex, then don’t. Just butt out of my life.
Anyhow, I’m taking off up North and will be gone for the long weekend.
Have fun!
But nonetheless, the Bible is just a book. One doesn’t have to believe in everything that’s written in the Bible to be a Christian. The Bible is also open for interpretation. Some people chose what should be in the Bible and it has been the foundation for many people for many years. The foundation for both good and bad. I, personally, think it’s crazy how written words can become a recipe for what is wrong and right and what people shouldn’t be and should be. Some people choose to read the Bible without a filter; swallowing it all like soup and other people choose to read the Bible with filter and skepsis, not believing everything, but still being a Christian and then of course many other people take the Bible for bullshit.
@Mama_Cakes I’ll butt out when your beliefs stop infringing on my culture. XP
@tups The Bible is the Word of God. Says so, in a couple places. Not something that you just throw out bits of that you don’t like.
@Nullo But the Bible is written by people and they chose what should be in it.
@Nullo Interesting that you should say that, considering most modern Christians throw out passages they don’t like, including most of Leviticus.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say “follow the passages about homosexuality, but not the ones about mixed fibers.”
Perhaps the entire anti homosexuality thing had the function of engouraging reproduction, in which case the churches are now kicking themselves in the foot on sex outside of marriage by not allowing same sex marriages.
To go further, is it a sin to gain pleasure from sex now that it is not essential?
@Nullo So, you believe the Bible is the word of God? Why, I wonder? Could it be because the Bible says so? Well, why believe the Bible? Because it is the word of God? Circular reason much?
@Mama_Cakes, I thought you were in Canada where same-sex marriage is legal.
@bkcunningham The plan was to move to the States.
My partner is American and we’d like to live up in Northern Michigan with the rest of her family.
They’re like my second family.
Are you looking to move to a specific state? Same-sex marriage is legal in six states. I think that it is six now.
See, I just don’t understand why it always has to come down to people defending their faith or defending homosexuals. Isn’t it okay to be believe what you want and just not put it on others, the live and let live policy?
This is about FREEDOM for all the right to pursue your own form of happiness as long as you hurt no one else.
Nope. Not in Michigan, @Mama_Cakes.
What specific protections are you looking for in a marriage contract, @Mama_Cakes?
I just got over the border and I brought my partner’s Republican, Christian neighbours some Coffee Crisp. See? I’m an equal opportunity loving bulldagger.
edit: It’s not even worth the effort trying to talk sense to certain people. Certain people are just so far gone, their head is so far up a book’s ass they can’t remember the last time they saw daylight.
@Nullo : “A homosexual person has all of the rights and privileges as a heterosexual person. If such a person insists on making their perversion public, then they get what they get.”
Wrong.
In 26 states, according to the Human Rights Commission, I can be fired from a job or denied employment simply because I’m gay. I do not have all the rights as a heterosexual.
I can’t marry. I do not have all the rights as a heterosexual.
Your use of the word “perversion” is repugnant.
“Then they get what they get.” In at least six countries, homosexuals are executed. That’s blaming the victim, but then you’ve shown no respect for logic in this thread. It shouldn’t bother you.
“Interesting that you should say that, considering most modern Christians throw out passages they don’t like, including most of Leviticus.”
I love it how when people bring this up, some Christians do not bother to comment on it.
@Hawaii_Jake, I thought Hawaii recognized same-sex unions. Would you explain to me how you could be fired from a job or denied a job because you are gay?
@bkcunningham : Hawaii has civil unions, not same-sex marriage. Separate is not equal.
This map shows which states have protections for employees of private enterprises based on sexual orientation and also gender identity in some cases. Many states protect against neither. In those states, it’s simply possibly for an employer to fire someone for being gay or to deny hiring them for the same reason.
I personally know a man who walked into his job in Plano, Texas, and was fired after he responded affirmatively to his boss’s question about his sexual orientation.
There is no federal law against this practice.
Speaking of Leviticus, how about shellfish, @Nullo? Do you eat lobster? If you eat it in public, are you harassed, beaten, killed?
Yep. God hates you and you must be miserable. It’s punishment for the sins you have yet to commit. Get a new god. There are plenty to go around.
Your mistake is caring about what they think. Leave them in the 14th century and live your own life.
I’d own that company in Plano if I were that man, @Hawaii_Jake. Let somebody ask me something about my sexual preference or orientation or sexual anything in a job interview and I’ll own their ass.
@Nullo how exactly does one being homosexual impact your culture? That is ludicrous. One thing you seem to be forgetting is that the Bible was written by man. While people claim it is the word of God, it was written by man. Man is fallible. Men have agendas.
@Mama_Cakes I do not think that those who try to take away anyone’s right to love who they want to love give a shit about anyone’s happiness or salvation but their own. They don’t care whether you are miserable for the rest your life. All they care about is being able to tell you what do with it to make them happy.
@Hawaii_Jake I’m so bummed NY is one of the two states with more than one law protecting our sexual rights. You are one of the classiest, gentlest, honest guys on here. I’ve never noticed a post from you that was mean in anyway. I can not say that about me. For someone to assosciate you and perversion is so disgusting it’s beyond contempt. Hang in there guy.
I’m australian living in the states and this whole thing—just seems bizarre—my friends there are incredulous that it’s even an issue and more so with this election going on-ps I’ve had sex with women, with men, sometimes at the same time. I know god loves me. I know it so there belch
According to The Bible, we’re born sinners, so taking a shit is probably wrong, too. So either way I guess we’re fucked. We’re born imperfect, and prone to all sins, and everything which defines us is a sin.
I don’t believe, God or not, that homosexuals and lesbians are meant to burn in Hell forever. That’s crap, and if God is real, I wouldn’t worship one that was this cruel, anyway. I’ll take my fuckin chances with the Devil. I mean, God created us, nay? If He didn’t want people to be gay, then He shouldn’t have made it so that people can be gay. It’s His fault. Next time He creates something, let Him think about that. I ain’t paying for God’s mistakes goddammit.
You may think I’m trying to be funny but seriously, I do not understand what The Bible has against this. Does it even explain why?
@Symbeline No, it doesn’t explain why. And I find it interesting than most anti-gay people I meet aren’t interested in a reason beyond “God doesn’t like it”. But we never get to know why God doesn’t like it.
@Symbeline I loved your answer. If God made us, and God made us so we can be gay, then God fucked up. If God fucked up, he’s one of us, nothing special. I’m geting so much shit for this. :)
@Adirondackwannabe And that is why it is so important for many religious people that homosexuality be a choice because that way, God had nothing to do with it because he didn’t make someone something that will only doom them to eternal damnation, but they chose it.
@Adirondackwannabe But it really makes no sense. Some Christian beliefs say that our job is to find and accept God as our Savior. So this means He made us all prone to sin, and we have to go through all this stuff to find Him, like this is some kind of crazy, cruel game to Him. Why would I want to revere that? I mean since God is all loving, this didn’t have to be. He could have made us perfect. It’s all needless and apart from that, makes no fuckin sense.
Also I’m certainly not saying it would be cool to be as God wants us to be. Life sucks sometimes, but really, it’s all kinda cool at the same time. We need gay people, goths, offending music and pillows everywhere.
@DominicX Indeed indeed, but even that has a loophole. Again I say, if God is all powerful and shit, then being gay shouldn’t be a choice. God’s perfect, so if being gay is a choice, it’s a mistake He made. And if being gay isn’t a choice, then Christ, what an asshole.
@Nullo I think a logical take on the bible is that it’s the “word” of god, that was (unfortunately) written by man allowing it thus to be skewed by man as well as man saw fit. Man saw fit (as based on culture or whatnot) that homosexuality was wrong, God said, “I love all the men and women of this world and all that follow me will enter heaven.” Man, with his cultural bias or whatnot, hears/writes, “And God said ‘I love all the men and women of this world and all that follow me will enter heaven except for homosexuals, transsexuals, eunuchs, unicorn, etc.”
And on a more fun note. LOOK AT FREAKING THE ANGEL GABRIEL. A very feminine male. clearly a trap. XD
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