Anyone avoiding their flu shot this fall ? Why?

Already had mine…

My hubby and I have no intention of taking it. I have discovered that Elderberry is an excellent antiviral, and we have found it to be quite effective against ALL viruses. Since we started this regimen, we have not missed any days of work due to viruses of any kind. We also take vitamins and other immune support as needed.

I am skipping it, as I did for the past few years. When I had had the shots, I always contracted some other unprotected version. It’s bearable.

I have never gotten the flu, but I always get vaccinated just in case. I have already received my vaccine this year. I have never had a side effect from the vaccine and my opinion is that the hype about vaccine risks is unfounded.

@Mariah: I compute the endless toxins we breathe, drink and ingest..the flu shot is just another mini-one. It’s cumulative.

During flu season some doctors who do not offer the shot say to take Oil of Oregano and Vitamin D3 daily. I’m glad I have both.

Daily doses of D3 are a good thing during the rest of the year also.

I never take the flu shot. I’ve had the flu twice in my life when I was 5–6 and when I was first married 19 years ago. I have had a bad reaction to a vaccine before (not the flu shot, I have never taken the flu vaccine. I am not antivaccine at all, but I am balance the risks. The flu vaccine has a low rate of serious side effects so you know, I am not discouraging people from getting it.) I am not likely to get seriously ill from the flu since I am a reasonably healthy adult. The flu shot chooses the three most likely viruses to be outbreaking each year, at tmes the guesses are wrong, or you get a different strain instead. I would get a shot if a extremely deadly virus was on the run like the Spanish flu reocurring. I would consider it if I lived with people who have a likelihood of becoming deathly ill from the flu.

@Aster Why do you mention D specifically? I have a horrible time keeping my D up in the normal ranges and I never get the flu, except the two times I mentioned. This includes tending to my husband a couple of times in the last several years and once helping my FIL when he had a severe case of the flu. My opinion is the best way I avoid the flu is plenty of sleep and for me personally taking iron, because I need the iron.

Nope. Not for me. Haven’t had one in decades.

The problem is that the vaccine they manufacture is nothing more than a guess – they really don’t know which strain of the virus is going to hit, and one antivirus doesn’t usually work on another strain. So it is a crapshoot.

@elbanditoroso It is not just a crapshoot. The government monitors the flus as they travel around the world and take an educated guess which three are most likely to hit this flu season.

@JLeslie I mentioned D3 because of all the good things I’ve read about it including it’s effects on the immune system. It seems to be surpassing krill or fish oils for its benefits. We’ll see.

Got the flu shot five weeks ago.
When I was 11 had the flu real bad, doctor thought I had Rheumatic Fever AND Polio at the same time. There is also the nasal spray for 2 to 49 year olds for people that don’t like needles.

@Tropical_Willie Rheumatic fever is caused by strep, or subsequent to strep infection.

I’ve never had one. Is it worth getting?

Hell no! I have not missed my flu shot since I started in 2008 after 2 killer flus in a row in 2006 and 2007. The first was while traveling in the U.S. and let me tell you, being stuck in a hotel for for days half dead while traveling is the worst. I then had the shot before traveling in asia in 2010.

I will get mine this month sometime. I also have my geese vaccinated for West Nile virus. As always pick your poison and there’s plenty of it to go around.
2 years in a row of a kick your a$$ flu virus was all I needed to make me a believer. No flus now for almost 6 years running. Yay!

Avoiding it? No. It just doesn’t seem helpful. I’ve only gotten one twice, and one time I ended up with the flu. Correct me if this is wrong, but aren’t they regionally based? I travel to other areas, so this might make it a moot point.

I had one in 1988 and was in bed for two weeks sick as a dog afterwards. No shots since and no flu. My closest friend got her shot last year and was sick for weeks too and has sworn off the shot. It may have to do with some “batches” are worse than others? I just don’t understand it.
@Coloma , as long as I stay close to home I’m fine. But if I go on vacation I usually get sick. Once in Denver, I was holed up in our hotel room, miserable. It could be I’m super sensitive to bacteria in foods when on the road.

I get a shot every year and other than having a sore arm for a day, I have not had any side effects. I am in contact with other people and do not want to spread it around if I get it.
You’re welcome.

I do not believe the hype and doom sayers.

I don’t get it ever. I was hospitalized with Guillain Barre Syndrome a few years ago, and I could have died. I don’t get vaccines, unless there was ever a smallpox outbreak.

@Pied_Pfeffer Well the same flus tend to be out in a given year around the world so to speak. You would be one of the carriers if you caught it in say America, stepped on a plane and infected everyone going to the UK that day. You are contagious before you become symptomatic.

The Alaskan cruises also bring a lot of disease, confined space and many people from Asia and America on there. First 48 hours of my cruise, and I think all of them possibly in that region, we could not serve ourselves at the buffet and they make you purell your hands before boarding the ship at each port. I don’t know if they do it at all parts of the world now.

@JLeslie I know about strep, it was the level and length of time for elevated temperature, fever was 105 * F and it was while Eisenhower was President.

Yes, I too have never had a reaction other than a slightly sore arm for a day or two at the injection site.

P.S. a bit off topic, but..did you know they are working on a west nile vaccine from the yolks of goose eggs. Birds that have survived the virus have natural antibodies and it looks like geese are the heros for this latest breakthrough.

@Tropical_Willie I swear I am not trying to give you a hard time, but I don’t quite understand your answer. I think strep was proven to be the cause in the 40’s. But, I guess you are saying you actually had the flu and not scarlet fever or polio so now you believe flu makes you extremely sick so you take the shot to try to avoid getting the flu? I had 105+ with the flu when I was a young child also. In my 20’s I was above 103.

@Coloma I was wondering if they can test for the antibodies for west nile. I never worry about getting it, I figure I have had it. I am so proned to mosquito bites, I have three right now, had 15 a couple months ago, that I doubt I have avoided it during my long history of the mosquitos loving me.

Yes, I am avoiding it. I guess because somewhere in the back of my mind, I still think they are a commie plot.

They work great. I do have one every year, and can’t even remember the last time I had a virus.

I think the H1N1 hype kind of put me off. It really seems like they made up a virus, hyped it up to be all that, and then wanted everyone to go get the shot. I would have really thought it was a plot if they were charging for the shot, but most people could get it for free. Anway, no one I know ever got H1N1, and the ones that were told they had it just had a normal bug. If it wasn’t for some lab back east testing for H1N1, no one would have known it was any different.

Well, we cannot go by “people didn’t get H1N1 much” once the shot was developed and given out…think about, everyone who received the shot was immune. However, we did know the H1N1 probably was not the next Spanish flu within a couple months of the initial hooplah, and before the shot was ready for market. The media definitely overworked that story. Still, the vaccine probably did prevent some spread of the virus.

Let me re-phrase that; no one I know had the shot, or got the virus. That’s what makes me think it wasn’t real. I suppose my suspicions are unfounded, but that is me – always the skeptic. Anyway, not being one to argue with success, I will be getting my shot as soon as they offer them at my work, which will actually be tomorrow.

@Skaggfacemutt The huge scare was not warranted in the end, but the virus was real. Even the people who don’t get shots benefit from herd immunity, or basically from those who did get the shot. The fewer people who have the flu, the fewer people get the flu. You know what I mean.

I should have mentioned above my mom used to work for the FDA in the vaccine division. She used to see the boards with the flus making their way across the world throughout the year.

I’ve gotten a seasonal flu shot every year now since turning 50, as recommended. Before that I hardly ever got immunized, never had the flu.

Btw, the 1918 flu pandemic killed 20 to 50 million people.

H1N1 was extremely rampant in asia in 2010, everyone was wearing masks on the metro and all over the larger cities like Taipei city Taiwan. There was a shortage of the vaccine over there and I wasn’t going to risk it. Better safe than sorry IMO.

Not I. I’ve had mine. Flu, and even just an ordinary cold, can be really dangerous for me and even more so for my husband. I’d rather take whatever preventive measures I can than worry about some fear-mongering rumor.

I’m never taking any vaccines again. As long as you eat right and exercise you should have a good enough immune system. Also I read this article, which scarred the crap out of me. I suggest you do the same though: http://educate-yourself.org/vcd/

I got one one time and never will again. I was a minute away from walking pneumonia according to the emergency dr and now that I’m back to not getting the shot, I’ve not been sick at all (which is usual for me.) I’ll stick to vitamins, orange juice and exposing myself to the germs of the public. :)

I haven’t yet, though I usually do. As one who interacts with the public and handles upward of two thousand dinners per week, I’m a heck of a vector. Getting vaccinated is the responsible thing to do.

We moved from the tropics to the opposite extreme this year so we thought we better. And while others all around us are sneezing and whooping, we have remained healthy.

While in the tropics because we were surrounded by a high risk group we always had them there as well.

Never had any reactions to the shots.

Well….if their is some huge flu epidemic the typhoid Marys are in trouble. lol

I never get a flu shot. I also never get the flu.
I’ll take my propolis instead, and boost the immune system.
Vaccines wreak havoc on the immune system, and you’re lucky if you don’t get something else instead that you would not have got.

I’ve never had the flu shot, and I’ve also never had the flu. Vaccinating against disease rather than humans building up an immunity to the things that threaten them is exactly why our gene pool sucks and no one is healthy and everyone has cancer.

@deni How do you figure that? People live longer because we vaccinate against disease. I am not fond of the flu shot, as I said above, but polio, whooping cough, small pox, those vaccine have saved millions of lives. Some of the others mostly avoid the illness, with lower death rates than the diseases I named, but people do die from Measles, Mumps, even chicken pox on occassion. More people get cancer now because we generally live longer. Although, I do agree our environment helps contribute to cancers too.

@deni Huh? Vaccines induce immunity to things that threaten us. It’s the same immune result as if you had the infection, except you don’t have to have the infection. And they make no alterations to our gene pool because they do not affect our DNA.

Maybe I just don’t understand your argument. Feel free to clarify.

@Mariah I think that @deni is conflating the fitness of the gene pool with an individual’s natural immunities. For the modern human, survival is not the exclusive domain of the fit. Things that would have killed off as recently as the last century are now inconveniences.

I would have died of respiratory failure within hours of birth without the NICU, and my genetic traits would have been lost. But medical science is in the business of covering the pitfalls of natural selection, so me and my genes – the good and the bad – are preserved.

Now that I have some time I feel a need to reply to some of the other comments I see here…I only want to raise a friendly and hopefully informative debate. If this is not what you had in mind for this thread, @Aster, please feel free to flag as this is in the general section.

@whyigottajoin May I ask why you believe the article you linked is one that should be taken seriously? It seems really over the top hysterical to me. Vaccinations are a plot by the Illluminati to induce population controls? They just keep ranting about how vaccines are terrible without giving legitimate reasons, and they don’t seem to cite any sources to back up their conspiracy theories besides other dubious articles.

My other concern regarding your comment is that while eating right and exercising will help your immune system, this does not mean we will be magically invulnerable to all disease. Even an optimally functioning immune system will not shut down every infection before it can start.

@dabbler I’m wondering if you can cite a source or otherwise explain your claim that vaccines “wreak havoc on the immune system”?

@KNOWITALL Why are you so certain that a vaccine was the cause of your illness? And do you realize that “exposing yourself to the germs of the public” is basically the same thing that a vaccine does, except that the vaccine is (in most cases) a dead virus so you cannot get sick from it (unlike whatever germs you may come across out in public)?

Thanks all. Feel free to ignore if you’re not interested in having a debate. I am just very curious about some of your claims and wonder if you can back them up.

@Mariah That’s what I get for making a sweeping statement like that. ;-)
I actually do not think all vaccinations are bad and would not avoid every single vaccine there it. I think the once-in-a lifetime sorts like polio and smallpox and tetanus (ok there may be a booster, but not every year) can do more good than harm, and can be worth the risks. Polio vaccine linked to cancer

The flu vaccines, every year, for strains that may or may not correspond to the strains to which you’ll be exposed, are, if I may paraphrase @JLeslie, an educated crapshoot, and not worth it.

Here is an assortment of links to articles about the harms of vaccines, kids are especially vulnerable to autism from mercury poisoning from vaccines :
Evidence of Harm
vaccinations permanently disturb the developing immune system
when concentrated pathogenic microorganisms are injected directly into the body, they bypass the natural defense system and disease sets in

@dabbler First, the researchs shows mercury is not a cause for autism, and the Doctor to first raise the idea, Andrew Wakefield, was tried because his research was shown to have all sorts of falsehoods.

Next, most vaccines no longer have mercury, or have a mercury free option. You can ask your doctor about the vaccines he administers. Here is a list explaining how much mercury is in a particular brand of innoculation.

Personally, I think there still needs to be research done on adverse affects of vaccines and better reporting from doctors should be encouraged. The FDA wants the reports, but the doctors fail to do it a lot of the time, or discourage patients from doing it. Still, overall I believe vaccines to be rather safe, and to have saved many lives. I think maybe there are some people who have bad reactions to vaccines, but I have serious doubts it is the mercury, especially now that so many vaccines are mercury free.

I encourage people to get titer testing done rather than just take shots in adulthood after having been vacciated in childhood. I had to fight with my husband’s doctor to test his tetanus titer, instead of just takingnthe vaccine. He races cars, and they put on record with his racing as part of his physical exam the last time he was vaccinated. The doctor had no idea what they titer was and was absolutely sure the vaccine would have worn off after 14 years (the last time my husband was given a tetanus shot). Finally my husband presented the test results I had had done 5 years before. To the doctor’s surprise my husband’s titer is extremely high (upsettingly high in my opinion) I am so glad he did not take the shot, I am so glad I was a total fucking nag about it. If he were ever in an accident they would most likely give him the shot in the hospital, and at least now he won’t have even an extra dose in addition to.

And, that article you linked about vaccines causing all sorts of health problems and more deaths from the diseases when they do occur. I don’t believe most of it. There are no references to any research or statistics. Even though I do believe there can be negative side effects to vaccines. I know there can be. My mom used to collect the data.

After the Swine Flu outbreak in the 1970’s (and therefore Swine Flu vaccine) there was an outbreak of Guillain Barre Syndrome, which is an auto-immune disease. They think it was caused by a preservative in the vaccine. I don’t have a link, I learned this from many conversations I had with doctors when I had GBS and from a book I read on it, after I was diagnosed with it.

@jca I wonder if my muscle troubles are related to my last tetanus shot. I am pro vaccine, but I think we, and I include doctors, should treat them as a serious medication. In our “pill society” people pop and shoot stuff believing there is no consequence. Pretty much I believe all medications have side effects, some the body deals with better than others. Each individual is different. Doctors seem to be the worst about assuming everything is safe. A gross generalization of course about doctors, but many of them seem unable to understand why a lot of people prefer not to take medication. The doctor may be right that the medication is more beneficial than the risk of the side effect reoated to the med, but they still should understand why patients are hesitant.

This woman I work with just told me her granddaughter got a Gardasil shot and the flu shot at the same time, and had headaches for 3 weeks and ended up in the hospital. They couldn’t figure out what the problem was. Scary.

When my daughter was a baby, the doctor offered a vaccine for some virus and I asked him what it was. He said the virus caused diarrhea. I said no. I’d rather her get a virus with diarrhea than have some weird vaccine in her system.

@jca My husband once had 4 shots at once. I was so upset! He was doing a lot of travelling and the company he worked for recommended the doctor. Thank God he seems to have no ill effect. I also had a friend who was given 4 at once, because she was doing her citizenship for America. I am sure the majority of the time it is seemingly fine, but why risk it if not necessary?

My fertility doctor at least did titers for rubella as a matter of course. I wonder how often someone came up with compromised immunity. My mom told me I was not allowed to take the rubella shot even if I came up low. My immunity was just fine though from my childhood vacination.

I really wonder how often immunity does wane? I can’t figure why a healthy adult would lose their immunity to a previously vaccinated virus or bacteria? But, I don’t know enough about immunity and infectious disease. My guess is medical science doesn’t really research it, but I don’t know.

You can’t build immunity if you never get sick. I read somewhere once, do not recall the source that people who never get colds and flus actually have weaker immune systems in the long run. So, not ever getting sick is really nothing to brag about.

@Coloma I have never met a kid who never gets sick.

@JLeslie True, I mean adults that claim they haven’t been sick in 20 years or whatever.

@coloma Their immunity is already stregnthened by their illnesses caught as a child, that is part of the reason they don’t catch every virus that comes down the pike. Our vaccinations are extremely targeted at specific viruses. I really doubt never getting polio is a negative thing. Plus, the vaccines actually activate our immune systems. Civilization free from certain diseases have no defenses when exposed to certain harmful illnesses. That is part of what we think killed off many Native Americans when the Europeans first came to the Americas, but with vaccinations we actually are exposed.

@dabbler OK, as @JLeslie has already pointed out, the vaccine/autism connection has been shown to be complete fiction. The man who started that whole charade has been stripped of his medical license.

As for the claim that vaccines “bypass” the immune system and actually cause the diseases they are attempting to prevent, this is not even possible in most cases. Most vaccines are dead viruses. They cannot infect you. Even immunosuppressed me is allowed to receive these vaccines, and I don’t get sick. Some vaccines are alive, which means it’s theoretically possible to get ill from them, but the chances are astronomical. With the flu shot in particular, the viruses are dead, unless you get the nasal spray. Then of course the nasal spray is not injected, so the article you cited doesn’t apply.

That same article goes on to claim that vaccines are not even effective. If vaccines don’t work, where did polio go?

@Mariah Polio is actually still around. Very very few cases in America, but some countries see it more. The Gates foundation is working to irradicate it by vaccinating around the world. Small Pox was eliminated by vaccinating around the world. Polio actually is tenuated live virus in the drops, which is why they use the vaccine in developing countries, and they recommend it in America for babies cared for by older adults/grandparents. There have been cases frm what I understand of the baby shedding the virus and giving it to grandparents who were not immune. Still rare, especially more and more since even most of the grandparents alive today did receive the vaccine. Anyway, taking the shot means friends and relatives are not at any risk.

@dabbler There have been some cases of vaccinated people getting sick. I have seen it mostly concerning measles outbreaks. But, I never saw if there was an investigation into the vaccine batches, or any sort of follow up. I would assume the CDC does follow up, but for whatever reason the media does not investigate and report. Still, measles is a great example of vaccines working, because it is extremely contagious. Without the vaccine there would be millions of cases in the US each year.

@Mariah I am certain because I am never sick. The year I got the flu shot at work I was sort of coerced into it, and I was deathly ill. Not much guessing to it, haven’t been sick since with anything other than a sniffle occasionally due to allergies or weather changes. I hate pills, shots, Big Pharma, all of it, I rarely even take an aspirin.

” Polio was already well on its way out before the vaccine which is the same story for pertussis (whooping cough) and measles as well as other infectious diseases that didn’t have vaccines.

Now you understand why your doctor is so very misled about the effectiveness of vaccines. The control of medical and nursing school curricula by Big Pharma through big research grants and donations is what makes the perpetration of this scientific fraud possible.

The real reason for the decline in epidemics – running water, improved sanitation/personal hygiene, and greater access to fresh fruits and vegetables doesn’t make anyone – or should I say – any corporations any money does it?”

@Aster I see your unsourced claims and raise you the Smallpox Eradication. A disease that killed and scarred untold millions of people through the ages exists in a culture in a lab someplace, and nowhere else. That’s because we pulled together and vaccinated everybody.

We still have epidemics – AIDS is a perennial favorite, and the bubonic plague is steadily working its way across the United States through the wild animal population. They don’t get out of hand because we as a society have trained and funded epidemiologists whose job it is to study and contain outbreaks before they get crazy.

@KNOWITALL The scientific method would require you to be vaccinated every other year for the next ten years or so to see if the symptoms turn up again.
Ever-relevant XKCD.

Science-Shmience…..lol, I know my body.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, “The following substances are found in flu vaccines: aluminum, antibiotics, egg protein, formaldehyde, human aborted fetal apparatus (dead human tissue), monosodium glutamate (MSG), and thimerosol (mercury).” Do some of you with this knowledge avoid the vaccines or do you find it immaterial?

Flu vaccines are directly linked to about a dozen cases of paralysis and brain damage each year. Many researchers believe these flu vaccine cocktails produce delayed reactions and long-term health consequences.

@Aster I have been unable to locate your quote on the CDC website. It does, however, show up on a number of anti-vaccination websites whose neutrality is suspect.

The thing is that health is a matter of proportions. Too much of something will kill you. Too little will kill you. Just enough will help you. The quantity varies between people and substances.
The CDC did say that thimerosal – an antibacterial and antifungal agent – is considered safe, and that it’s only present in multi-dose vials (they make single-dose vials as well, so if you’re still worried, you can avoid the compound that way).
Similarly, the aluminum and formaldehyde are present in very, very small quantities. And we eat MSG all the time; I don’t see why that (or egg protein, which we also eat all the time) would even be a concern, unless you’re allergic.
There are some vaccines that are grown in aborted fetal tissue cells. The current rounds of the flu vaccine are not among those. I will have nothing to do with them, though for moral reasons rather than health-related ones.

@KNOWITALL You might simply be allergic; some people are.

Rather than argue, I will ask, why would anyone think the flu shot is great? Most people I know don’t get them anymore either, it doesn’t work, they still get way sicker than I ever do.

@KNOWITALL I can’t speak for everyone, but statistically it does work. Influenza in children is down 90% since 1988, and we haven’t had a repeat of 1918.
Muddying matters is the existence of multiple strains of influenza, and a wider range of viruses that produce flu-like symptoms – and there are diseases that we call “the flu” that aren’t actually influenza at all, like the stomach flu, for example. There’s no panacea, so yeah, you’re probably going to get something else. Getting vaccinated is no excuse to slack off on your health.

I think the issue of whether or not to get a flu vaccination is one that people feel so strongly pro or con about and since it’s a personal decision, I wouldn’t try to convince the other side to change their minds.

@KNOWITALL I think the flu shot is great because I live in a college dorm where disease spreads like wildfire and have health problems that would make it dangerous for me to get very ill with something like the flu. But I haven’t gotten the flu at college. I have been vaccinated.

Understandable, Mariah, but for those of us with normal immune systems, not generally necessary. My mother has a compromised immune system and gets the flu shot, which almost always makes her very sick, I’ve asked her to talk to her dr’s this year before doing it again.

@Nullo : regarding your question about egg in vaccines: from CDC website:
“Persons who report having had reactions to egg involving such symptoms as angioedema, respiratory distress, lightheadedness, or recurrent emesis; or who required epinephrine or another emergency medical intervention, particularly those that occurred immediately or within a short time (minutes to hours) after egg exposure, are more likely to have a serious systemic or anaphylactic reaction upon reexposure to egg proteins. Before receipt of vaccine, such persons should be referred to a physician with expertise in the management of allergic conditions for further risk assessment.”

@Nullo in regards to your remark about “in very, very small quantities” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atPYt4xes80

@Aster That’s an allergic reaction. If you’re not allergic, it’s harmless.

@KNOWITALL Again, the flu shot cannot make you sick. The nasal spray can, and people with compromised immune systems should not get that. The shot is completely safe for people with compromised immune systems and I have received it many times while immunosuppressed. It is very possible she is getting the flu despite being vaccinated, but that’s because she’s catching it, not because the vaccine gave it to her, and the vaccine lowers the chances of that occurring.

@Aster Pretty much people allergic to eggs should be advised not to take vaccines grown in egg. Many vaccines are, I think flu vaccines always are, but I am not 100% sure. I can’t imagine risking a reaction for a flu vaccine. A scarier disease maybe. However, I would not be surprised at all if some doctors might ignore a patient who says they have an allergy and still give the shot. Some people are not allergic to eggs, but they don’t digest them well, can be two different thing. Egg allergy is fairly rare, so the fact that the vaccine is incubated in eggs is not an argument against taking the vaccine, unless a person is vegan. The is a skin test for egg allergy.

@Nullo You should let go of the aborted fetus argument for not taking a vaccine. The fetuses were not aborted to make vaccines, they are already aborted and utilized. Here is some info.. Ironically, I once asked a Q aimed at people against embryonic stem cell research. I asked it here and facebook. Basically I wanted to know if the people against it, if the research developed cures for diseases like Parkinsons and Diabetes and others, would they take the drug themselves or give it to a loved one, and pretty much everyone said they would use it, which I found to be a little bit awful. On facebook I was shocked to see how quickly answered my question with a big fat “hell yes,” over and over again. For whatever reason I don’t find the vaccine thing so offensive, maybe because there have not been big political squabbles over it. Anyway, it just goes along with how I say the pro-choice people keep abortion safe and available for the pro-lifers, and for that matter other research and medical advances and cures. Maybe you would say you would rather die than use a medication made from an aborted fetus or embryo never given the chance to grow in utero, but from what I can tell, most of America doesn’t take it that far. I do have respect for those who are consistent, I will say that. I respect the Catholic church for being against IVF. I don’t want it put into our laws, but I respect the position as being consistent with their beliefs.

@JLeslie I researched the objectionable vaccines before posting, in fact. I learned that I have already had two of them (MMR and Hep-A). I know what the cells are and where they came from, and understand the role that they play in developing the vaccines. I know that the cell cultures are as far removed from the abortions as you can possibly get. I even found a justification-for-Catholics that likened the vaccines to donated organs.

This is still people profiting from the murder of two children, and I have a hard time with that. I don’t see that it matters that “most of America doesn’t take it that far.” Principles that can be swayed by usage statistics aren’t very good principles.

Whatever happened to making abortions “safe, legal, and rare,” anyway? They’re safe enough (though they do induce sterility and emotional trauma now and then), and their ongoing legality irks me no end, but rare? There are millions of of ‘em each year.

@Nullo Did I say rare?

I respect your position. That was my point with the IVF example, I respect the consistency.

I agree just because most Americans think it is ok, is not a reason to just go along with the crowd.

If a woman aborts her fetus, and the fetus is simply going to be disposed of, I can’t really see a problem with a medical advancement being made from it. Much like the donated organ example you provided. I didn’t know Catholics take that stand. Jews are mixed on organ donation. If a life can immeditiately be saved, I think Orthodox and not agree the organ donation is ok. But, Jews have a lot of rules about mutilating a body, and having to bury a body quickly, so it is complicated. Anyway, I wonder what the Rabbis would think regarding vaccines and even embryotic stem cell research? I never looked into it.

@JLeslie It’s the abortion part that I don’t like. I don’t think I’d have as much of a problem with a miscarriage, just as I don’t have a problem with training med students on cadavers.
“Safe, legal, and rare” is part of the pro-choice rhetoric. You’ve probably heard it before.

@Nullo I understand it is the abortion part.

Yes, I have heard “safe, legal and rare.” I thought you were saying I said it, I don’t think I ever use that line. Safe and legal yes. It would be nice if it was rarely necessary, I guess it depends on someone’s definition of rare whether that is realistic.

I very rarely get sick, and I’m not a fan of needles or visiting the doctor for every little thing. I don’t think I’ve had even a simple cold in like 3 years.