Which is less desirable, to have a boy who acts like a sissy or a girl who acts like a tomboy?

It would really be less desirable to have parents that actually cared about shit like that.

I don’t think there is a problem with either at all, but as far as social acceptance, a tomboy will fare better.

I can’t decide if that’s sexism against men – more expectations about their behavior, or if it’s sexism against women – this idea that feminine qualities are so undesirable to find in a man.

Why would it matter how a child entertains herself or himself, as long as no one is harmed in the process? Sorry Hypo but this is an extremely outdated question. It’s not 1955 anymore.

Lingering traces of second wave feminism mean that female assigned children are often encouraged to do traditionally ‘male’ associated behaviors. As long as they end up being straight, cisgendered, and married eventually…

Societal sexism and hatred of the feminine means that male assigned children are punished for anything not perceived as masculine behaviors.

@Mariah: I think about that question alot. Sexism at its base is setting expectations for how people should behave, based on their genitals or what you perceive their genital arrangement to be. It can affect people of any gender. I think this specific phenomenon is a combination of misogyny (devalorization of women and traits perceived as ‘feminine’), along with sexism against men (people with testicles shouldn’t behave a certain way, because masculinity must constantly be defended and transgressions must be punished.)

Excuse me, I was just taking a break from writing to my homophobic parents.

So this question annoys the shit out of me. What annoys me is that anyone even thinks about shit like this. Boys should be able to behave how they want and no one in society will care. Same with women. We shouldn’t have assigned sex roles such that if we don’t behave according to those sex roles, we get shit from people in the community. It is way past time that this kind of oppression ended.

It is oppression, too. It constrains people from being who they are. It creates self doubt and makes it so people end up depressed and suicidal because they can’t fit in to socially imposed ideas about who they should be.

Neither role is less desirable. In fact, both are highly desirable. And even boys and girls in more traditional roles are desirable. We should desire all our children in all the roles they want to take on, so long as those roles do not harm other people.

What is less desirable is people who think there are traditional sex roles and that if people don’t follow those roles, there’s something wrong with them. Those people are wrong, and if I could wash their brains with soap and get rid of those ideas, I would.

@wundayatta : It sure is oppression, and I’ve seen it hurt queer people as well as straight and gender conforming people. Have a pint on me.

I choose ‘C’.

Having a parent who cares about such things.

“Sissy, “tomboy, “traditional boy thing,” and “traditional girl thing.” This is language that has no meaning any longer, speaking of a step back.

Thanks, @bookish1. I’ll have an ale, although tonight it’s going to be ginger, due to my somewhat queasy stomach. I know it hurts people of many different orientations, and because of that, it hurts all of us, although a lot of people are in denial about it. Or just dont get it. Conformity hurts so many people. I try to raise my kids to feel the freedom to be who they are, no matter what others say, but it’s really hard, because society is so narrow minded and it has such stupid ideas about what it means to be a proper human.

The term sissy has a really bad negative connotation to it. Back in the day (not so long ago) the word was pretty much equated with being a homosexual, something that was looked down upon (and is unfortunately still looked down upon by many segments of society, especially, but not limited to, as we can see in the U.S., the non first-world society)

However, boys doing non-tradional things like cooking or sewing or interior design is something totally awesome these days. I don’t think the term tomboy ever had a negative connotation, quite the opposite.

I never understood the desgination tomboy. Literally it made no sense to me and still doesn’t. All us kids, rode bikes, climbed trees. I guess maybe girls who like team sports are more likely to be considered tomboys as opposed to sports like tennis? But, does anyone really expect girls to be in frilly dresses and not play outside when they are little? I have never been around that to be honest. Sure some girls were more “girly” but most girls I knew and know were both. They liked make-up and liked sports. There were some girls who didn’t like anything very feminine at all. I don’t see it as any big deal. Everyone is different. I am just shocked that people evn think about a girl as a tomboy, because it is so foreign to me. I will say some girls might be thought of as masculinish. Or, people might suspect they are lesbians, but that is a different thing in my mind. Being athletic does not always translate to those suspicions.

I think boys are a different story. Above I am saying I am pretty shocked anyone even uses the term tomboy, I do think boys have pressure to not be sissies. I once read a study that observed children and how much they cry, and young boys and girls cry the same amount on average, but by a certain age (I wish I could remember the age) the numbers changed significantly and boys cried much less than girls. They theorized it could be testosterone levels, or socialization, or both. I figure it is both. I do think when a boy starts attending school shame is a big reinforcer, meaning the other kids can be pretty mean to boys who tend to be emotional. They may still have support at home to be sensitive and cry, so that is a safe place for that, but they learn to stifle in public to some extent I think. No matter what I absolutely hate the term sissy, or any name calling.

@bookish1 Do you feel adding more testosterone has reduced how emotional you are? How easily tears come, things like that? I don’t mean that you are less sensitive or caring.

It should not matter. A person (child) should be allowed to just be themselves.

Oh the horror of either of those! Please, it’s bs to think any of that is a problem.

UntiI 7th grade, I always preferred playing with the boys and was jealous that in kindergarten the boys got to build a house with 2×4’s with holes at each end and metal rods holding them together. The girls had to make a doll bed of a stationery box on thread spools and then sew a mattress, sheets etc. Bo-o-ring! I’d rather climb trees, wrestle, play soccer with no rules, and explore the cemetery. I guess I was a tomboy, but I was also definitely feminine. I wasn’t aware of being belittled. I was just me.

Macho is mucho better.

You lit a powder keg with this one, @Hypocrisy_Central. It’s true that society does treat tomboyish girls better than sissy boys. Society today does a lot of stupid, harmful things. But it’s changing, and this is a dated question that suggests you’re going to get steamrollered by the times.

No comment, well, I COULD comment, but it wouldn’t be nice.
What’s more desirable…to blast this question to hell or to quietly retire to the memory foam.
I choose door number 2. The little green goose feels ruffled.

Neither is in any way undesirable.

I’m so glad for all these answers. And I didn’t even bribe any of you guys! Amazing stuff.

I know all throught middle school and high school my daughter always prefered the company of guys; she said there was too much drama within the feminine community. While she played on the girls team in both schools she played on a “boys” competetive soccer team until she was sixteen because of it.
She took flak because she was not interested in much of what is considered “girlish” but stood her ground and did things her way.
Still does.

As already said plenty of times, neither is ’‘less desirable’’. I sure hope that some day we reach some point where none of this matters. And why should it? Is there any actual valid reason why this should matter? And even if there is, fuck that reason.

My teenage son watches i-carly & my teenage daughter plays in goal for her school football team…perfectly normal.

Another whopper of a question.

@JLeslie: It has not made me less emotional!! Nothing could keep me from being a sensitive passionate empathetic Virgo INFP. However, testosterone has made it far more difficult to cry, on a physiological level. I used to be able to cry copiously, but now I can be very upset about something and only a few tears or none will come out. Hence why I asked over the summer what people do when they feel like they need to cry but can’t. (And some of the responses to that question were pretty revealing of sexism and stereotypes about guys.)

As far as I have been able to determine, many sexist stereotypes result from generalizing statistical likelihoods that are the result of sex hormones…The problem is when people enforce these statistical likelihoods, and something is wrong with you if you don’t limit your behavior to the absolute mean.

“Men don’t cry” because testosterone tends to dry your tear ducts. “Women are weak” because estrogen tends to lead to a different muscle/fat ratio than testosterone (even though there are plenty of women out there who could kick my bookish ass!)

@bookish1 I meant not crying as easily when I said emotional I was just explaining what I meant by less emotional, not saying they were too separate things. I describe my husband as a very sweet, caring, man. But, he defnitely does not move to tears as easily as I do. I think it might be a combination of hormones, personality, and conditioning. However in his family they did not look negatively at men being emotional. When we visit my husband’s parents he and his father kiss, hug, and not unusual to tear up. They wear their love and sadness on their sleeve. But, at times when they need to stand up for themselves or are in professional situations let’s say, that is where I see a big difference where men seem to be able to earth control their emotions and whether they cry easier than women. At least I think it is easier? I have seen women cry at work during with times of stress or conforntations, I don’t think I have seen men cry at work. Maybe they cry in the bathroom?

Women feel it with increases in estrogen and other hormones with pregnancy and then drops when they have a baby.

I do think some of it is personality, in that people who overall have positive outlooks and feel in control are less likely to cry also in my experience. When I am depressed I can cry at anything. Any little thing on TV, any little thing that I perceive as unfair. My husband doesn’t have a depressive personality. I wonder if women are more likely to be depressed? I think a lot of women feel low self esteem or not in reasonable control of our environment.

I don’t know why some boy pick on other boys for behaving like a “sissy” however we are defining that. Personally I find it disgusting some of the hazing and bullying that goes on among boys, I know it is done to soe extent with girla to, but it seems worse to me with boys because so many boys and men see to think it is ok. The Q’s on here about hazing just baffle me when people think it isn’t that bad that guys towel whip each other in the gym or shove a kid in a locker or having someone do something embarrassing to prove themselves or whatever they do. That whole culture mystifies me.

I think boys should be rewarded for being caring. We all should be, empathy is what makes us decent human beings. Is being caring being a sissy? Is being in touch with feelings being a sissy? I have a feeling a lot of the sissy boys are the ones I probably would think are going to grow up to be the best men.

You lit a powder keg with this one, @Hypocrisy_Central. But it’s changing, and this is a dated question that suggests you’re going to get steamrollered by the times. I know pretty much who the orchestra plays to here on Fluther. I did not create or instill the beliefs. I don’t think it is as dated as many would wish it to be. People here honestly believe if a boy went to school wearing lipstick, fake lashes, pink polka dot tights and high heeled boots, he would not get cross glances from anyone or so few you could count them on one hand?

Then I hear all the expected buzz words and phrases; is should not matter what they have hanging off their chest or between their legs, so long as they are not harming anyone, they should be able to act and be who they really are, etc. What if they did not care for humans at all and would rather mount their bull mastiff, or be humped by their African wolf hound? They are not hurting anyone so be on board to let them be who they are? What if they did care for humans just not live ones and they positioned themselves to have access to the fresh departed that they might have sex with them, if that is them they should be able to be themselves, they are not hurting anyone? What if they touched no one but sat at home gratifying themselves to kiddie porn thought they would never actually touch anyone. They are not hurting anyone, They should allowed to be who they sexually feel they are? Like it or not, there are lines, where do people think those lines start and stop and who sets them?

If a girl went to school wearing lipstick, fake eye lashes, pink polka dot tights and high heeled boots, she might attract some undue attention as well.

Your obsession with bizarre details does not serve to make what might be a valid point if couched differently.

”What if they did not care for humans at all and would rather mount their bull mastiff, or be humped by their African wolf hound? They are not hurting anyone so be on board to let them be who they are? What if they did care for humans just not live ones and they positioned themselves to have access to the fresh departed that they might have sex with them, if that is them they should be able to be themselves, they are not hurting anyone? What if they touched no one but sat at home gratifying themselves to kiddie porn thought they would never actually touch anyone. They are not hurting anyone, They should allowed to be who they sexually feel they are?”

Yes to all of those. Go ahead and let your blood boil.

@Hypocrisy_Central Maybe you missed all the laments about the fact that this isn’t a perfectly tolerant world. There may be someone here who actually believes that a boy dressing as a vamp drag queen would find school a welcoming environment, but they apparently didn’t answer this question.

@Hypocrisy_Central : At last, the slippery slope argument! A burst of original thinking.

Yep, the trannies are awful close to people who fuck animals and children.~

Showing such revulsion toward and fear of one of the very weakest groups in society suggests immense personal insecurity.

@ETpro Maybe you missed all the laments about the fact that this isn’t a perfectly tolerant world. They shouldn’t, everyone should know life is not fair; sometimes people get to live to be as old as mummy dust, and other times people don’t live to be 5 years old. They meet their end by accident, illness, or on purpose. No one is guaranteed a day, minute, or hour.

@bookish1 At last, the slippery slope argument! A burst of original thinking. The thinking is always original, most people just miss it because it take less than usual paths.

Yep, the trannies are awful close to people who fuck animals and children. I would not say that, but you are free to think how you wish. I was just illustrating it is not about ”no one is being hurt” because there are other actions where no one is hurt but people are not onboard with that so their argument is disingenuous IMO.

@Hypocrisy_Central Did you miss the sarcasm indicator (~) in @bookish1‘s post?

I don’t think we even needed the symbol to tell that Bookish1 was being sarcastic. :/

@Hypocrisy_Central ’’ I would not say that, but you are free to think how you wish.’’

Yeah, smooth one there, brah.

@Mariah as far as social acceptance, a tomboy will fare better.

I can’t decide if that’s sexism against men – more expectations about their behavior, or if it’s sexism against women – this idea that feminine qualities are so undesirable to find in a man.

I think it’s the latter. A tomboy is considered ‘cute’ in her own way, whereas a ‘sissy boy’ is just a little bitch waiting to get beat up by real boys.

I like ‘em both. I strongly dislike people who give either grief for being who they are. I have no desire to turn everyone into cookie-cutter sameness with myself, and I strongly oppose those who think such forced conformity would be a great idea.