Why won't some learn English if living in America?

Why will so called ‘americans’, a.k.a. descendents of european invaders, not learn native american languages like navajo?

I’m convinced that some people just can’t. There’s the whole problem of neuroplasticity, the fact that language acquisition becomes much harder later in life. But there’s also just a constitutional difference in language ability, similar to differences in math or musical ability.

When I lived in France, I knew a couple—French man married to an American woman. The woman had lived in Paris for 20 years, but could barely manage to put a basic French sentence together. And her comprehension was so poor that all conversation around her had to be in English. I’m sure this posed a major practical and social complication for her, but there just seemed to be a functional deficit there.

Quite often they live in communities where they don’t need to speak the language as the rest of the country. For example, a lot of British retirees move to Spain and live in communities with other British people and very few, if any Spanish people. The shops are run by the British, a lot of the schools are English speaking etc and so they don’t need to learn Spanish. The area they live in is England but with more sunshine!!! I know this because I have some cousins who moved to Spain and the only Spanish they see on a day to day basis are the people that do manual labour for them like gardening or building etc It’s like they live in their own little bubble.

I’m sure natives of other countries wonder the same thing about many Americans living among them. I believe I’ve read that Americans are historically bad about learning other languages, due both for the reasons stated by @thorninmud and to lack of effort.

Some give up even before starting. Sentiments of insecurity maybe a factor. That they will never be adept at it. And being able to “get away with it”, the ability to still live, have a life without mastering the language leads to zero enthusiasm.

@mazingerz88 raises a good point. It’s very humbling to trot out your flawed attempts at language. You inevitably make a fool of yourself. Native speakers tend to unconsciously treat you as a child because that’s the level you communicate on. For someone with a strong sense of dignity, this may be too much to face.

The answer @Leanne1986 gave reminds me of that film Sexy Beast, the only language Ben Kingsley speaks in that is of the foul variety…good movie that.

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@ragingloli Uh, because English is the predominant language in the US, not Navajo languages (which are now extremely rare and near extinction, unfortunately)?

Not sure where you were going with that comment.

I don’t know how it is possible to live in another country without eventually learning their language by accident. Just from exposure to it.

Here in Spain, on the island of Mallorca, the official languges are Spanish and Mallorquin, but we have loads of British people who don’t speak a word of Spanish living here.

My mother came here in her 30’s, and was never any good with languages anyway. Today, age 59 she can speak quite a bit of Spanish, even if she does mess it up and ask the butcher for chicken tits some times.

My mother always wanted to learn Spanish, but never really put much effort in to it, and that is the result. Based on that, I can only assume that those who have lived here for years who still don’t speak Spanish, must just not want to.

@livelaughlove21, I think @ragingloli was simply making the point that when our forefathers/mothers were newbies in this country, most of them probably didn’t bother to learn the languages of people already living here.

@Pachyderm_In_The_Room Alright, but I don’t believe the OP is asking about history. Seems people are trying to make it an “American vs. Everyone Else” thing when it is clearly stated that this situation applies to other countries.

I agree with @thorninmud

I managed to learn a few words in Mandarin when I traveled in asia a few years ago, and I can barely squeeze out a few words in spanish. Uno taco, Dos Coronas, bano. lol
Hey, as long as I can order beer, tacos and find a bathroom it’s all good.
I took german in high school and was a complete failure.

For whatever reason, as quick and creative as I am, I have a near zero capacity for picking up other languages.
The older you get, the harder it is.
I try not to judge as there are always a multitude of factors that either motivate or demotivate people in their pursuits.

I meet many people who come from places with abject poverty and no opportunities. Given their backgrounds, U.S. minimum wage seems like a great deal of money to these people. They hope to work hard (some have 2 or 3 jobs), send money to their families, save substantial amounts, and return home well-set and able to build better lives.

Thus, they don’t learn English because they have no intention of staying here. They arrive believing that they’ll be in this country for the short-term, maybe a few years at most.

Of course, the reality, after they get here, is very different. At minimum wage, those 2 or 3 jobs are needed for mere subsistence.

People do learn the dominant language if they need to.

Who said this?

“aliens… will never adopt our language or customs, any more than they can acquire our complexion”

It was Benjamin Franklin in 1776. He was talking about Germans. But it seems they all ended up adopting English eventually.

My inlaws, both with a third grade education, migrated from Italy to Argentina after World War II (as adults).

They learned Spanish quickly because it is similar to Italian and they were in their early twenties and game for it.

Almost twenty years later, they immigrated to America and settled down into Boston’s North End – teaming with fellow Italians. They also went to work with mostly Italian immigrants.

They were older (early forties) and didn’t really have a need to master English. As a result, their English is pretty terrible.

This plays into both @thorninmud and @Leanne1986‘s points.

Or, as they explain it, at that point, it was just easier not to learn English.

My grandparents, immigrants from Holland, wouldn’t allow their kids to speak anything but English.

@ragingloli The reason we don’t learn Native American languages is because we don’t need to. The people at the DMV don’t speak it. The people at the grocery store, the Quik Trip, the auto parts store, the schools, the government, the mail man…none of them speak Native American languages. They speak English.

@Dutchess_III Yes, but… the way people answer this question has a lot to do with what they think the motive for asking the question is. Is the question asked out of genuine curiosity about how people cope, or is it an expression of frustration with people who don’t sound like them? I’m not just referring to this question by @chelle21689, but other instances when we hear this also.

If not speaking the native language actually hinders the newcomer’s ability to live and work in their new country, then they will learn it eventually. If it doesn’t, should we care what language they want to speak? What I hear when I read a question like this is, “why is that person refusing to speak a language that I can understand?” In other words, it points to the asker’s inability to understand that language. I think that kind of distaste for “otherness” is what @ragingloli‘s response was addressing (at least, that’s how I responded to it).

The way that @chelle21689 worded her question makes me hope that he or she is genuinely curious. I think that whether or not a newcomer learns the language depends on a lot of things. When you call a place “home”, you’re supposed to be able to feel safe there, comfortable, free. Communicating badly can put all of those feelings at risk, particularly where there is intolerance, or a fear of intolerance. Sometimes it’s easier not to communicate at all, than to be looked down on for communicating badly. For people who feel this way, it’s simpler to stay within a community where their language is predominant, and not learn the new language. That way, they are always assured of being treated as an equal.

Well, nothing wrong with being frustrated, @glacial. I didn’t take it as anything negative. If someone wants to have a conversation with you or something, and you can’t understand them then it’s frustrating. Has nothing to do with selfishness or distaste, IMO. At least, that’s not how I read it.

@poisonedantidote That just makes me want to learn how to say “Chicken Tits” in Farsi, so I can ask for them when I go to the Halal butcher.

I do think it’s humiliating to speak below our age level. I have sympathy for that. My best friend in Mexico City speaks quite good English and my Spanish is laughable, especially when we try to speak about abstract concepts, but we HAVE TO speak Spanish together because her pride is greater than mine. I get to be the doofus because a) I AM the doofus b) it doesn’t hurt me as much to be the doofus. But when I speak with her mom, who isn’t university-trained, I speak better Spanish, because her mom helps me more. It’s so various, is my point.
Also, I had a friend whose grandparents moved from Holland to Michigan, and never learned English because it wasn’t worth it in the time they had left, given that the whole community was still immigranty enough to speak Dutch with. But their children learned English lickety-split.

@susanc I don’t understand “speaking below our age level.” What does that mean?

@morphail “People do learn the dominant language if they need to.”

Sadly, many of the jobs are so menial, new-comers really don’t need to learn the prevailing language. Janitors, housekeepers, construction day-laborers, restaurant line cooks, dishwashers… Communication skills really aren’t necessary.

My personal experience with languages is very dismal. I have a very difficult time when I try to learn another language.

@SadieMartinPaul It’s true, learning a language is hard, and lots of people don’t have the time or energy or immediate necessity. However, as I think my example shows, over time immigrants do learn the language.

If I were to judge from what I hear on so many reality shows, I would wonder if in fact the majority of Americans are capable of speaking English at all!

Learning a language is no different from learning anything else. At an older age, most people find it hard, although it seems to be a breeze for others.

Some of the problems:
They are afraid of making mistakes and offending the natives.
They are afraid of sounding strange, i.e their accent.

The best age to learn a second language is between age 3 and 10 or so. After that, our brains change and we don’t learn language so well. The older we are when we have to learn a new language, the harder it is. Our brains aren’t wired for it any more. We don’t hear accents and pronunciation. We aren’t flexible about learning a different grammar. We don’t memorize words as easily.

It’s just hard. If you’re in your thirties, it is next to impossible to learn a new language, and what you do learn will not sound right. This is if this is your second language. If you have learned more than one language earlier in life, it is much easier to pick up new languages when you are older. But I suspect that most immigrants who don’t learn English are older than thirty, have only learned one language before, and live in a community where others speak their language. This last means they can get along without English.

I moved to Australia. Now theoretically we all speak english but the aussie version of it is often very foreign from American english (I find it interesting that so many turn this into an opportunity to criticize americans. @ragingloli I don’t think even Navajos speak their own language anymore, why would I want to learn it? And @drlawrence you are in the same league, always eager to take a shot at the yanks, if you think they don’t speak a satisfactory brand of english, you should hear the aussies. And really canadians talk pretty funny themselves hey!) . I immediately started learning the colloquialisms so that I would understand what people are talking about. I have a granddaughter who a year ago moved to a scandanavian country, she now speaks the language beautifully. I cannot imagine not being able to communicate with the people I need to understand, doctors, plumbers, etc..
Anyhow back to the question, unless you are very old and don’t leave the house much, I cannot imagine why you would not learn the language of your adopted country, unless of course you are simply trying to turn it into the country you left???

It doesn’t bother me when adult immigrants never learn the language of their new country well. For some people it is very difficult. For others they live in communities that are extremely bilingual and they can get by with their mother tongue. What’s upsetting about it is they are then limited to communities in the country that speak the language. Anther reason is fear. My MIL hates that she doesn’t speak English. From what I can tell she is paralyzed by fear that she will sound stupid or embarrass herself somehow. She will say a phrase she knows by rote, but never try to construct a sentence.

What I care most about is children learn the language of the country.

@Dutchess_III Because when you have limited command of a language you communicate at a lower grade level so to speak. My Spanish is probably like an 8 year old. I can carry on long conversations, but my vocabularly is limited, my grammar is good not great, and conjugating my verbs sometimes can be challenging.

I believe new immigrants should at least show that they are making an effort to learn one of a country’s official languages. Soon Spanish may be the majority language among US citizens!

@Dr_Lawrence I think most do, don’t you?

We don’t have any official languages, do we? God forbid I should have to learn Spanish at my age.

Leanne1986, I think you’re right now that I think about it because my grandma never really had to get a job since she was around 50–60 when she came here and her sons supported her. She was a homebody too never went out.

As for bf and his grandparents, they had a large cambodian community surrounding them with no one really speaking English to her.

My aunt that is here is recent but isn’t interested in learning English. She understands a lot but doesn’t speak too much. She works at a Thai place where you speak Thai as a cook and doesn’t get out much lol. Just enough to understand and say important things.

I would still make a strong effort to learn a language of another country because I would hate to have someone with me at all times translating. But I’m not angry I’m just confused and curious just to clear things up.

@chelle21689 Many of the women who come here at older ages lived basically among their small circle of family and friends in their home country. They didn’t venture out much, they didn’t meet new people often, so when they come to a new country they kind of recreate their normal state of being, and if they don’t have to learn a new language to do that they are more likely not too.

Why would anybody want to insult us Yanks? We’re awesome!! :)

@Dutchess_III – I think we yanks are like germans, canadians, mexican, korean, aussies, etc. some really good folks and some really annoying jerks. Some seem to forget that, I think they’re probably a little bit jealous!!!

Of course they are. But there is a stereotype about the people in every culture. I’m curious as to the stereotypes for us Yanks. I think I’ll ask Fluther.

@Dutchess_III
Well, there is this article on Encyclopedia Dramatica.

Thank you @ragingloli – you never fail to take your shot.

It seems a few have used this thread to take more cheapshots at Americans, but I’ll actually attempt to answer what the OP asked. My ancestors were from eastern European nations, and my great grandparents (maternal and paternal) spoke their native languages with broken English. Desperation to just get out of horrible conditions before learning a new language is probably a factor, as was the case with my great grandparents.

I seem to be missing something. Is anyone besides @ragingloli (who is always critical, all the time) making anti-American remarks here?

“If I were to judge from what I hear on so many reality shows, I would wonder if in fact the majority of Americans are capable of speaking English at all!”

So sayeth a guy who watches reality shows and is from the land of Trailer Park Boys

@glacial I’m missing it to. How are Americans being insulted throughout the thread?

@wundayatta Nope, no official langauge.

But @rooeytoo you don’t have to be a watcher of reality shows to know they are disguisting right?
The thing about that link by @ragingloli is it is not a balanced view of America, it only presents the worst.

They acccurately call a city bus “autobus” in French, they call an interstate bus “autocar” They are both “autobus”. This is an example of how languages have enough make no sense stuff in them.

@flo “I were to judge from what I hear on so many reality shows, I would wonder if in fact the majority of Americans are capable of speaking English at all!” to me that sentence indicates watching!

The antiamerican comment got a ton of GA votes. There were a few other comments supporting that post as well when it was challenged. It amazes me that a site full of many so-called intellectuals seem to lack the most basic common sense.

@Paradox25
Do not be too upset. Anti-americanism is quite populare right now, just as Anti-German and Anti Japanese sentiments were during WW2.

@Paradox25 I wouldn’t call that comment particularly anti-American. But as a non-American, I don’t feel protective of the US, so that might change my perception of the comment.

Also, people give GAs for many reasons other than to say “I agree with this comment”. Just see any of the “How do you give out lurve?” questions on this site.

@Paradox25 – I was amazed at that myself. I thought this was a predominantly American group. I meant to say as well that there were probably hundreds of native languages when the pilgrims first arrived. I know in Australia you can have several different aboriginal dialects in the space of a hundred kms. Wherever I went I tried to learn a few words but really, almost everyone speaks english, even the most remote out stations are english speaking.

I suppose I am a bit raw about this anti-american crap. Maybe I will just have to grow a thicker skin since @ragingloli says it is “quite popular right now.”

In response to fashionable America bashing, I suspect right-wingers would say…

“Yeah, yeah, we suck – but we’ll be the first country to send troops to defend your ass.”

And left-wingers might say…

“Yeah, yeah, we suck – but our college campuses are awful busy educating your I9 approved asses.”

So we can’t be that bad.

@rooeytoo Activists like environmentalist for eg. know more about the topic because without looking into it they can’t be experts

I still really am very confused. Peope are bothered @ragingloli‘s first answer received so many GA’s?

How about this, do you know how many Americans complain that while they were vacationing in France the French are so horrible, they won’t speak English, they are rude, they don’t like Americans. Usually I say back to someone who is complaining, “what do you speak when you encounter a foreign tourist here?” Odds are whatever American I am talking to only speaks English, especially if they are 30+ years old. The hypocrisy is unbelievable.

@JLeslie – how bout this, I spent a few years dealing with international tourists from all over the world, including USA. And the bottom line is, some are routinely rude and obnoxious and some are polite. It did appear to me that france and germany seem to produce an abundance of rude and obnoxious though! So I find it amusing that you are using the french as an example and @rag is always putting down the yanks. Most tourists did not speak english and since I didn’t speak their language either, I have no idea if they were being rude or not, in some cases their demeanor led me to believe they were.

I see nothing confusing about people enjoying dumping on the USA in this thread. And I explained above why I thought it strange that the raging one gets lurve for insults.

I also think that people who travel internationally are often wealthy and privileged and used to having their own way and do not hesitate to stomp their foot and whine if they don’t get it. And again, that does not single out any one country, it is truly nondenominational.

@rooeytoo Funny, I was on an Alaskan cruise this past summer and a man from Darwin told me he finds Americans rude in Australia, but when he is in the states he finds them to be wonderful. He seriously considered living in the states for a few years at one point.

My experience has been the more experienced travelers do not complain about the French. Rather, it is the less experienced, often not from large cities. And, in America France is the country typically singled out as being rude, unhelpful, and not speaking English by Americans. It is not that French tourists here are rude, it is only said about the French while visiting France. My family loves France, I have never been there myself.

It is funny a guy from Darwin would complain about the yanks, a lot of them died saving Darwin from several Japanese attacks. There are plaques all along the esplanade honoring them and thanking the USA for their help. Same is true of Broome and several other cities. So if he thinks yanks are annoying he is either ungrateful or perhaps doesn’t bother reading historical markers in his own city.

I still say no one country has the corner on the hateful tourist types. I do think the more wealth and privilege they have the more they expect.

I must have lived a very sheltered life among very liberal people, I never heard anyone of my family or friends make racist or disparaging remarks about any group of people

@rooeytoo it was interesting what he said. He said how much he liked Americans, but had bad experience with them when they were touring his country. He would know better than to generalize to all, it was just his experience. I don’t see why you are so defensive? Of course all countries have annoying people. I think hateful tourist is too strong, my impression was that maybe he found them rude at times, something on that order. Maybe he did not understand their behavior?

Remind me again where you grew up? The states right? Which city and state?

My parents growing up never said anything like that either. Never. If something like that came out of our mouths it was quickly corrected. My father and mother were sociology majors. They thought in terms of groups, but when I was kid it was drilled into us that cultural difference can be misunderstood and should not be quickly judged. They would never let us dwell on race, but rather would point out economic reason or hstorical reasons certain groups might have certain customs. As adults it is a slightly different story. My maternal side of the family and my parents travel the world, I have never once heard them say something negative about other cultures or people, they are always interested and open.

The same reasons some won’t learn German when living in Germany: These people prefer to form a parallel society.

“Parallel society (German: Parallelgesellschaft) refers to the self-organization of an ethnic or religious minority, often immigrant groups, with the intent of a reduced or minimal spatial, social and cultural contact with the majority society into which they immigrate. The term has been introduced by the German sociologist Wilhelm Heitmeyer into the debate about migration and integration in the early 1990s. In 2004, it was elected by the Association for the German Language second as Word of the year.”

One of the root causes in Germany is strict adherence to fundamentalist Islam. Western society is seen as decadent, toxic, unclean, haram, which requires protection against.

Not to mention GAY!