If bullying takes place on the way to school, should the school take action?

No, why would it?

On the school bus? Yes. Walking home? No. That should be handled by the parents.

If that was the school’s responsibility, they’d have to intervene if bullying occurred between students anywhere – even at the grocery store on a Saturday.

I would say no. That would create a slippery slope. Where would you draw the line between where the school’s responsibility begins and ends? They can’t police public streets.

That said, it’s pretty likely that a child who is being bullied on the way to and from school is also being bullied at school. Kids aren’t discreet enough about their bullying to confine it to one place.

Over here in englandtown kids wear school uniform & are always told that they’re representing/upholding the school’s reputation whilst wearing it, wherever they may be.
You’d think then that this policy would cover the likes of bullying in a public place, threatening behaviour likely to draw attention from passers-by, but not a chance.
It’s an entirely justifiable stance they take, after all, omnipotence is as impractical as it is impossible, but it can give bullies a window of oppurtunity without fear of reprisals.

No, not if walking to and from school. If it were on a school bus, yes.

No; the school can’t be responsible for what could happen as the kid leaves his yard.
I was supposedly beaten up by a boy in sixth grade after school. I was so terrified I have zero memory of it but he had told me he’d get me that day. He came up to me, my mind went blank, then I cried all the way home. It was a fun experience compared with divorce or having both parents in the hospital. But today bullying is such a huge deal, one that will never stop happening, that if it happened today I might hang myself. Back then it was just a rotten experience all forgotten in a day or two. I never hear about the victim’s parents calling up or confronting the brats directly. I wonder why? And fast forward to 2012-the guy who may have done this to me? He is a Facebook friend. I don’t think he remembers it. lol

I’m going to disagree with the previous respondents here, but with the qualification that this applies only to commuting by the most direct route to and from the school, whether that involves walking, riding a bicycle or scooter, or any other non-motorized transport. After all, the child may have a choice of whether or not to be outside at all, or whether to be in any certain place at a certain time, but if he has to walk to school and if he has to be there at certain times and return home at other certain times, then the school should take action if he is impeded by another student on that route and at those times. It’s entirely school-related, so they should be aware and involved.

I would agree that the school has no interest or responsibility on non-school related time (weekends, for example, or times that have nothing to do with going back and forth during the daily commute), but if he has to go to school and can’t do it safely because of another student, then the school should take an interest, and if they don’t, then the police should. I should think that the school would rather not make it a criminal matter or one requiring a police complaint.

NO NO NO! and they shouldn’t be providing meals or medical care or transportation or any other service beyond education

If the vial tentacle of an educational institution starts to reaching out to wrap itself around something else please shoot it with your gun or hack it off with you machete before it is too late!

Yes, definitely.

@CWOTUS I agree they should take an interest and report it to the parents (both sets) or perhaps law enforcement, but they can’t legally take action off school grounds. Schools aren’t law enforcement agencies. Plus, then you start splitting hairs over how many blocks away from the school this applies to, who enforces it, how many students can you afford to provide this service for, etc.

@diavolobella Well said.

I don’t know what “legal action” a school could take even if the bullying occurred on school grounds. But schools do have pretty broad administrative and disciplinary powers over their students, and they should exercise them in these cases.

@CWOTUS They can’t take legal action. That was sort of the point @diavolobella was making. She said they can’t “legally take action,” not that they can’t “take legal action,” off school grounds. Not the same thing…

Read the words that I wrote.

@CWOTUS. They can’t. Schools don’t have the legal right to take action against students for behavior that occurs when the children are not under their authority on school grounds or on a school outing. If they tried to, that would be illegal. I emphasize, schools aren’t law enforcement agencies. The OP is talking about incidents outside school grounds. Therefore no disciplinary powers which could be utilized on school grounds can be used.

That’s not entirely true, @diavolobella. Schools have been upheld in many off-campus disciplinary actions, such as administrative actions up to and including suspension, in retaliation for what are perceived to be inappropriate Facebook postings, for example, even when it is proven that the Facebook postings were made off campus, not during school hours, and from non-school-owned equipment. I’m not altogether certain that I agree with all of the things that school administrators have been able to do in this regard, but minimum action to prevent bullying would be one type of extraordinary measure that I would strongly support.

@CWOTUS. Off campus bullying while walking could not be proved except by hearsay since school officials would not be likely to have witnessed it, unlike Facebook posts, which can be saved and proven. A parent could easily file suit over it and likely win. As a legal professional I’d expect to see that in fact. Schools shouldn’t be in the business of doing investigations or making rulings. They aren’t courts. How do they prove the allegations are true? Kids could make accusations right and left about other kids they don’t like. How would the school provide proof? The school should notify the parents of what has been alleged and then allow them to pursue the legal remedy they choose. Just as schools report allegations of abuse by parents, etc., to authorities but leave the investigation and prosecution to the proper authorities they should do the same in this type of instance.

My daughter went through an attempted rape while walking home with 2 friends. 5 boys from her school were the assaulters. She was in 6th grade.
The principal had made it clear that he felt my daughter had brought it on herself, by dressing inappropriately, but he did acknowledge that the school was responsible for the kids while walking to and from home.

@filmfann. He more likely acknowledged he felt that way than that there was any actual legal responsibility. Depends on the laws where you live but I’d be surprised to see any actual law saying any school can be held liable for what happens away from the school. Could I sue the school if I tripped and broke my ankle on a public sidewalk on the way home from school just because I was coming home from school? No. Same principle. Bullying is a hot button topic, so wanting to act decisively is understandable but there are still rules of law and limits to liability. Otherwise everyone could sue everyone for everything no matter where it occurs.

When my son walked to school, he had crossing guards stationed throughout the walk. Those crossing guards were provided by the school and made sure the children made it home safe. If anything happened to the children during the walk, the crossing guards would report it to the school and then the school to the parents. If a child was having issues on the walk (such as bullying), the school would handle it with discipline at school. I guess it was kind of similar to us being disciplined if we misbehaved on the bus on our way to or from school. The trip to and from still fell under the school’s disciplinary process, so walking wouldn’t really be much different if the school has people along the route the children take. If they go off that scheduled path, then they would be on their own.

@Seaofclouds. Yes, the guarded school crosswalk would fall under school jurisdiction but not the sidewalks beyond.

@diavolobella When my son walked, there was more than one crossing guard leading him home and they watched more than just what was going on at that crosswalk. They watched all of the kids in their eye sight and they could see from one crossing guard to the next from the school to our house. If the child walked home with the designated paths were the crossing guards were stationed, they could be monitored just about the whole way to their house (or all the way to their house in our case due to where we lived).

You must have lived very close to the school. Most walk further than that out of sight. Generally crossing guards don’t actually work for the school (unless its a private school maybe) but for the local department of safety or police department. They could report what might happen to the school but there is still no legal liability on the part of the school. They can try to take action if they wish but they are under no legal obligation to do so off school property. They are only legally obligated for what happens on school property or at a school sanctioned event. I think my point is being missed. It’s not about whether they choose to take action but whether they are legally obligated that I’m talking about and whether they could defend their position if a parent whose child was accused and/or punished challenged it in court.

I think the school should be made aware of the problem. I don’t think the school is responsible for any discipline, but they can be a helpful mediator for both sets of parents. The school can also keep a watchful eye when the children are on school grounds.

@diavolobella I disagree. The walk to school is similar to the ride to school on the bus. When I was in school, if the bus driver caught kids fighting at the bus stop, they called it in right away, and our principal met us at the curb in front of the school. Those kids got off first, went straight to the office, and were disciplined by the school… with the same discipline they would have received if they were fighting on school grounds (most of the kids that would fight at the bus stop would stop before the bus got close enough to see them). I’ve seen multiple schools take disciplinary actions against children for things like fighting and bullying at bus stops, on the bus, and during the walk to school. Their reasoning was that children should be able to get to school in a safe and timely manner. If there was an issue that didn’t involve another student (say perhaps someone at a particular house causing trouble), they would address that with local law enforcement or change the routes so that children wouldn’t be near those places. For example, my bus stop was changed one year because of concerns about the person living in the house we had to stand in front of while waiting for the bus.

@Seaofclouds. Then we agree to disagree.

@diavolobella Ok. We agree to disagree. I do have a question about something you said earlier though. You said, “Schools shouldn’t be in the business of doing investigations or making rulings. They aren’t courts. How do they prove the allegations are true? Kids could make accusations right and left about other kids they don’t like. How would the school provide proof? The school should notify the parents of what has been alleged and then allow them to pursue the legal remedy they choose.”

If schools should just give the information to the parents and let them do what they want (like going for legal assistance with the issue), how are the schools protecting our children? Schools perform investigations and make decisions all the time, about many things (cheating, plagerism, fighting, bullying, etc). If we take that away from the schools, who is going to look into those things and make the decisions at that level? Should a child be forced to sit in a classroom with someone that is bullying them when the school knows about it because their parents don’t care enough to go to the police about it since the school won’t do anything either (based on what you are saying above)?

I’m not planning to debate this with you. I am just really curious about your thoughts to these questions because of what you said.

I believe you are still missing my point. It’s the difference between what goes on AT school and what goes on AWAY from school. Schools are not legally liable for incidents occurring off school grounds with the exception of school mandated functions and trips. If they choose to try to police those incidents it is voluntary, but based on my 35 years as a practicing legal professional I maintain they are not liable, cannot be forced to do so and a parent who wished to litigate versus the school’s right to punish a child for something that occurred outside their jurisdiction would, in my view, have a very strong case. You are free to disagree. I’m not saying schools can’t discipline, just that they are limited to doing so within their jurisdiction. I’m also not saying anyone should take away a school’s ability to discipline and protect students while they are actually at school. The off school grounds point is what I’m saying makes the difference in the OP’s original question. I’m not debating the morality of the issue, just the legality. It’s what I’m hard wired to do.

Now it’s midnight here and I have to work tomorrow so carry on without me, please. I’ve made my point as best I can based on my legal background and if you disagree, you disagree At this point I think I’ve expressed my opinion as clearly as I can and any more would just be needlessly repeating myself.

I dealt with this. The bully waited at the same bus stop as my kids. The school refused to get involved. So I called the police, and it turns out his father was a policeman. I guess the kid learned his habit from his dad, because the police department didn’t like him either. They were delighted to learn of my problem, and sent the dad over to baby sit his son during the wait for the bus. It took one day to resolve the problem, because the dad was embarrassed.

Absolutely. One of the root uses of shooting sprees is bullying, because a tiny minority of bullying victims take revenge eventually.

@muhammajelly
NO NO NO! and they shouldn’t be providing meals or medical care or transportation or any other service beyond education. If the vial tentacle of an educational institution starts to reaching out to wrap itself around something else please shoot it with your gun or hack it off with you machete before it is too late!

Getting kids to school, healthy, and nourished, is not a “vial tentacle” of the education system. Some of the kids wouldn’t get to eat at all, nor even get to school otherwise.

I suggest bullying, anywhere, should be reported to whatever institution is responsible for the encounter. In this case, school. But the school shouldn’t just discipline. It should inform parents, and let them attempt to work things out first… noting it has been reported.

If its on school bus or at school yea but walking home from school no they care about THEY’RE property being bullied like that

I presume you mean their property, meaning the school property.

@diavolobella “Schools aren’t law enforcement agencies.” – I am so very happy to see one other person with a reasonable viewpoint. At points you say things like “I’m not debating the morality of the issue, just the legality.” so I still worry you are influenced by peer pressure on this but I commend you all the same. This body of law is based on morality and common sense… something slipping away from us as a society each day.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies Why can’t you see having malnourished kids in school is incompatible with the education system not a part of it? If a child is malnourished they should be expelled not fed. Distractions are destroying our education system. If a child is naked, on fire, has a broken leg, malnourished, etc the parents need to address this BEFORE sending them to school.