Are any of you aware that the Supreme Court is considering a case that might require an American to prove that he/she is a citizen in order to be allowed to Register to Vote?

This kind of thing is nothing new for most of us. In our state, for the last decade we’ve had to produce original documents at the license bureau before registering a vehicle or changing your license to your married name, etc… It’s kind of a pain, but it’s not difficult.

You see, all of that would be no problem if Amiland had a mandatory national ID card, like, let me see, every other western country on the planet.

@ragingloli – But, but… then they might as well MICROCHIP us, and put a BARCODE on our skin. And that’s the MARK OF THE BEAST and a sure sign of the END OF THE WORLD.

The Arizona law is what is being heard. A valid drivers license or ID is proof of citizenship. There are already many different types of documentation that also provide that proof. Nothing very difficult nor oppressive.

Agree with @Jaxk. If you’re a citizen and can prove it in one of several ways, what’s the big deal ???

I could not agree with @ragingloli more on this one.

Oh good. That should keep the 10 people caught doing it since 2000 from being able to do it again.

Thanks for lumping the rest of us in with the criminals Scalia.

Just for a clarification @Jaxk , @Rarebear , you guys aren’t the kind that bitch about too much government interference and regulation then turn around an support even more are you?

I think the right to vote should be assumed. Why would an undocumented “furriner” want to subject her/himself to the scrutiny involved in voter fraud. There has been more election fraud by local governments than there has ever been by the voters.

@rojo I’m not sure I understand your question. I only bitch about typos, badly written sentences, grammar, and logical fallacies.

To be honest, I don’t really see any deep problem in making sure that all of America’s registered voters are actually American. I just don’t know if it’s worth the time involved.

@PhiNotPi Seriously, that could be true because based on our conversations on fluther, people outside the US seem better educated on most of the issues than a lot of Americans who care more about their coffee orders than politics. It’s actually embarassing.

@rojo – that is exactly what I was thinking, any other time fluterites are complaining that the government is meddling too much in private lives. I would wager that if this question had been posed as do you think the USA should have a mandatory national id card, the answers would be completely different. It seems completely out of character for the raging one to approve of such meddling, but of course if it provides an opportunity to dump on the good ole USA…..

This is just an excuse to make it more difficult for the poor to vote.

A certain Yankee said, “if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it.”

@filmfann‘s right, it’s an attempt to limit minority voting. In places as diverse as Arizona, North Carolina and Florida, large scale reviews to see how many non citizens risked perjury charges by checking the US Citizen box on the federally mandated form, the numbers were so small as to be insignificant. So this isn’t a solution to voter fraud, it’s aimed at culling out certain voters who generally vote Democratic.

That said, the only reason we don’t have something like @ragingloli mentions, a national ID card, is right-wing paranoia and corporate pressure to keep a ready supply of undocumented workers available at low wages and without benefits.

I generally consider myself pretty far to the left, but I just don’t really see a problem with the concept of a national ID card.

@FutureMemory It isn’t generally the left that has a problem with a national ID card, it’s the black helicopter set on the far right. Their innate paranoia convinces them that an ID card is the first step to taking their guns, socialist indoctrination and a one-world government. Go figure.

Papers Please

If everyone is required to have a national ID card, why would the poor not have it?

The poor would have more trouble producing the documents requested.
Passport? No problem. Drivers license? Most rich kids get them when they are 16.

How would you go about obtaining a national ID card? Wouldn’t you have to show the same forms of ID that are requested to get a voter’s ID card? If not, what is the point of a national ID card? What am I missing?

@bkcunningham It would be issued at birth right along with or instead of a social security card.

I mean for people already born, @Seek_Kolinahr. How would they get the national ID card?

Well, obviously one would have to prove citizenship by other means initially, but that’s a process of phasing in a new system. Once the system is set up, all new natural-born citizens and naturalized citizens would be given the ID card on birth or gaining citizenship.

I believe the system should be paid for through federal income taxes, instead of taxed on renewal like a drivers’ license, since everyone would be required to have it. As an added bonus, it would be nice if it served as a passport as well. I don’t agree with the high fees associated with getting and renewing a passport. Movement between borders shouldn’t be the bailiwick of the “haves”.

You are given a birth certificate at birth and a system is already in place to establish a Social Security ID number at birth. You are a young mother. I’m sure you weren’t able to leave the hospital without the applications for obtaining both for your child.

Exactly my point. Why not condense it all to one card that every citizen gets?

And for what it’s worth – I was not given a copy of the birth certificate, but I got a social security card for my son in the mail without even asking for one. I have to contact the health department if I want a copy of his birth certificate (something I still haven’t gotten around to doing)

A couple of points. To be useful a national ID would need a picture on it. That means periodic updates. A picture of someone in a Burka, wouldn’t do it. Anyone worried about “The Mark of the Beast”, we already have that. It’s called a Social Security number.

I’m about as far right as anyone has a right to be but have no problem proving who I am. I hate the tsunami of new regulations but have no problem proving who I am. Surprisingly, the poor have no problem buying beer, just like I do but if you need to prove who you are to vote, that is a huge burden. If you can’t prove who you are, you’re probably not who you say you are.

I meant you are given the application for the birth certificate. I don’t think children can attend public school without a copy of their birth certificate, @Seek_Kolinahr.

@Jaxk – If you can’t prove who you are, you’re probably not who you say you are. – in some jurisdictions, such as Trinidad and Tobago, that is not entirely true. At one time I had a yardman/gardener whom we will call Charles. His birth certificate had his mother’s name and the date and place of his birth; there was no father named, and the infant’s name was left out. In order to have it rectified, he had to obtain an affidavit either from his mother or from someone who had known him since birth. Since he was already over sixty, he didn’t have much time. Everybody in his village must have known his ancestry, what children he had, if any, the name and generations of his father etc. etc. Documentary proof would be another thing. But he wanted to get his old age pension – one qualifies at age 65 if there is no other source of income – and I nagged at him to get the affidavit from his mother so long as she was able to provide one (I gave him the money to pay for a justice of the peace – notary public, if you prefer). I ran into him the other day, and yes, he got the new birth certificate and will apply for his pension when he turns 65.

@bea2345

Sounds like getting proof of who he was, was a good thing. I doubt there are a lot of people with legitimately blank birth certificates. Just Charles and Barrack.

@Jaxk Seriously? How many people still alive today were born in their parents’ bedrooms? There are still homes in this country without running water and indoor plumbing. Backwoods Appalachia didn’t disappear overnight, and the people born there 100–50 years ago are still alive and may or may not have birth certificates. How do you “prove” who they are?

In the state of Kentucky, unless you have your child in the hospital, the only way you can get a birth certificate without paying for a DNA test is to have a photograph of mother and child with the umbilical cord still attached. (friends fought this hassle 10 years ago, when she gave birth in the back of a taxi, and the idiot paramedic cut the cord before taking a picture – because duh it’s a stupid law that no one knows about.)

I’m from backwood Appalachia, @Seek_Kolinahr. My dad is still living and is 93. I’m going to be 52 in a few months. We have birth certificates. My mom wasn’t born in a hospital. She had a brith certificate. I have friends from Kentucky, West Virginia, North Carolina and Tennessee from the backwoods of the Appalachian Mountains. They all vote and have birth certificates and proper ID.

Someone was pulling your leg about the photo the child with the umbilical cord still attached. A photo or video of the birth is one of the items that may be used to prove the birth. Page 36.

I think if you want to vote, you will get the necessary credentials. End of story. If you want to drive you get a license. People do what they need to do. That’s the way adults handle stuff.

Seems a pretty stupid thing to lie about.

I also know people from China, El Salvador, Germany, Italy, Hungary, Japan, Holland, Mexico, Russia, Guatemala, Cuba, Jamaica, Spain and many other places who are now American citizens and have proper ID and vote. I believe you are correct, @rooeytoo.

It does, @Seek_Kolinahr. Perhaps, in all reality, they misunderstood or misread the information. You can read it yourself in the link I provided. You know how the world goes round. Maybe they asked someone and they got it wrong and it is one of those things that just got passed along that is entirely incorrect.

Oh great, now we have to be adults. :-)