Should teachers use caning in schools?

Violence begets more violence, so absolutely not, of course not.

I want to be clear, I am not condoning the use of corporal punishment, it was an issue that was brought up in the teachers college that I go to and I was supposed to research the matter. Like I said before I absolutely do not condone it but I just thought that getting some answers from a public forum like this one would give me some ideas and good feedback to put in my paper. I sincerely apologize for any offence this my be to anyone here.

I think this would spark some interest. A person on You Tube commented this:
You have a 2-year old. His name is Jonny. Jonny likes to run out onto a busy street. You drag Jonny back off the street time after time, telling him “NO, JONNY!” But since you don’t back up your words with actions, Jonny thinks its a GAME,and keeps running into the street. QUESTION: Do you LOVE your child enough to DISCIPLINE him and SAVE HIS LIFE? He won’t listen any other way. Is a bit of pain across his rump WORTH IT if it KEEPS JONNY FROM BEING CRIPPLED OR KILLED? YOU DECIDE!

@Eggie: You have a two-year old. You make absolutely sure that he had no access to run out on a busy street. Whoever leaves toddles alone to wander at will in order to be crippled or killed?( And shouting serves no purpose here).

My family believed in spanking, using switches on legs and my mom used a leather belt, shoes or whatever was close by. No one at school ever touched me though. The reason is because I was disciplined at home and every time the reason was explained to me, so it wasn’t necessary to test my boundaries in school. I ended up being an office worker instead.

The last time it happened, I was around 14 yrs old and feeling sassy, called my mom the B word in front of my best friend and got popped in the mouth immediately. Friend went home, I was grounded.

I personally don’t feel like any kind of corporal punishment should be left to anyone other than family, although if the family is incapable, perhaps you could opt in. I would have trust issues with anyone touching my child in anger though. Caning sounds too aggressive.

Here is another one:
sadly India,Asia,Africa n middle East All Get CP totaly wrong, this is not CP. it is assult & Bullying from the teacher, I went to a 1970’s Grammar skool, and my mates & I know what the Cane was like,under propper rules & guidelines sure it hurts a bit., like a fire in your bottom,leaves a few lines a while, but is Survivable,.and Ok. But India fails badly.. this treatment is wrong , plain & simple. they are not proffesionals at all,, they are Crap teachers,done Fairly & correctly CP works.

No, I don’t think so. Corporal punishment is not good.

Can’t see why anyone would be offended, oh wait…it’s fluther so yeah.
I was caned at school, three whacks on each hand, my fingertips were black & stung like hell for hours after. I’d been the victim of mistaken identity, but this dickhead teacher insisted he was correct.
I remember losing all respect for him from that day on, another negative for a barbaric act that belongs in the dark ages.

Ok. I’m back. If this is for a school paper, you might want to approach this for from a couple of angles. First, the ethics of hitting a human being. Second, you will probably want to bring the science into the picture. For example, you could look at its effects on executive functioning.

Well if it should not be in schools, should it really be in the home as well?

Does anyone here thinks that it actually works? I mean in Know it all answer, there is some evidence that it works right? ( Just getting more feedback)

@Eggie: “should it really be in the home as well?”

Of course not. But isn’t your paper focusing on corporal punishment in school?

@Eggie I feel that all discipline should begin in the home and end in the home (by mentally and emotionally stable intelligent parents). Proper discipline teaches you the difference in right and wrong, and by grade school, you should know proper behavior.

It is about school, but I want to generate more answers as to why its so negative. It has other students that are for it and I want my paper to have the best argument.

So Knowitall, do you condone it in the home by parents?

You might also want to check out what official organizations have to say about this, like the American Psychological Association or American Academy of Pediatrics, or American Academy of Child Adolescent Psychiatry for example.

I would never approve of caning anywhere. If you use corporal punishment, it should be with your hand at most. That way you feel it too.

@Eggie I absolutely do condone it with the conditions stipulated above.

The sad thing to me is that people confuse discipline and abuse. Discipline doesn’t mean you beat your children black and blue, or confuse them, or aren’t teaching them. My mom cried every time I got a whipping, so I learned it was painful for her to, that empathy taught me invaluable lessons, as did the punishment.

@Adirondackwannabe So it is not acceptable with a cane, but you would condone it if it is done with bare hands?

“Studies consistently show that physical punish­ment of school-age children is not effective.

The American Acad­emy of Pediatrics believes that corporal punishment can actually have a negative influence upon a child’s self-image and thus inter­fere with his academic achievement.

Punishment does not teach more appropriate behavior or self-discipline and may even cause a youngster to behave more aggressively and violently.

Antisocial be­havior is lowest among children who have never been spanked.”

See @tom-g’s links

Ok then Knowitall, if it can be done this way at home, wouldnt it work the same way at school if it is done the same way?

@Eggie I don’t condone it, but if you feel that’s how you want to raise your family, don’t use tools to beat them.

No, children should not be caned in school. Children should not be hit period. There is absolutely no reason a teacher should ever lay a hand or a cane, paddle, or belt on a child. What if a teacher smacked a child for something the teacher saw as wrong but the parent had no problem with (something like accidentally spilling)? Who decides what constitutes a “cane-able offense”?

It is simply ridiculous to profer caning as a viable discipline option. If we are so barbaric that we can’t come up with a better form of punishment/consequence than smacking a child with a cane, we are very pathetic indeed.

What about this comment:
disobedience beating is biblical; it’s the right thing to do.

@Eggie The only problem I see with schools administering corporal punishment is that they do not know your child. They aren’t familiar with his life experience or how he or she has been taught at home, mental capabilities/ Intelligence, etc…. To me, it’s the parents job to discipline their child, explain the situation clearly and make sure they understand, and calmly administer discipline.

Frankly, I hear parents complaining all the time about how they wished they had disciplined their children more, because as adults they still seem unable to conform to society’s rules, and end up getting in more serious trouble.

No.

@Eggie for me personally discipline being biblical is a load of crap. Now, before anyone gets on me about demeaning the Bible, let’s be honest with ourselves and admit (whether we want to or not) that the Bible – while considered by some to be the word of God – was written by man. The men who wrote the Bible had an agenda and that agenda was to manipulate the word of God to make people behave in a certain way. Sorry, no loving God wants teachers to put the smack down on school children. He wants even less for them to use what are supposed to be His words to justify the smack down.

@KNOWITALL, that is your only problem with teachers hitting kids?

Now this comment sparked my interest:
I don’t care what a child has done wrong they don’t deserve to be called names and beaten on. I wonder what these teachers would think if when they made mistakes they were beaten in the same manner in front of their peers?!

Now this sparked my interest because I believe if people would sit back and think if someone would beat me for my mistakes as an adult would it make me into a better person?

@Eggie if someone beat me for my mistakes it would do nothing more than piss me off, which incidentally it did when I was a child. It would make me think the person doing the hitting was a complete idiot. It certainly would not make me question my behavior, though it would make me question theirs.

For me, I think its not a one sided thing. If corporal punishment is wrong…then it is wrong in both home and schools. If it cant be used in the school, then it should not be used at home because the same way a teacher should find alternate ways of disciplining a child, then parents should do the same. Who agrees?

@Eggie if you read my posts you know I agree. Children should not be hit – ever.

@SuperMouse I believe all human beings are fallible, so I am loathe to leave anything to the public school officials. I have heard a lot about nuns hitting, and that it worked for some of my friends, they admit it.. I also had friends who were repeatedly disciplined at school and still grew up to be less than ideal members of society.

I also was disciplined at home by an intelligent woman, so I never was hit at school, but the FEAR of being taken to the principal’s office for spanking with the paddle, was very real and may have played a part in my ‘authority pleasing’ personality that I still have today.

I can’t say that it’s wrong for parents to discipline their children if it’s not abusive and the reasoning is clear. School officials, again, don’t know your child or the circumstances they’re dealing with at home, or the examples of behavior they’re given, nothing except the public ‘face’ of your child. To me that is a very important difference.

@Eggie I think there are plenty of adults who could use corporal punishment and it may prove beneficial.

What if the child in school came from a different background, like a rough neighborhood should corporal punishment be an option for that child seeing that the child is displaying devious mentalities and hoodlum behavior?

I have my very strong opinions here as well. But remember – this is a question in “general”. So, let’s try to stick to what the data says about this matter.

We know that all of the main children’s health and psychiatric organizations are against corporal punishment in schools (and overall). They generally state why. The jury isn’t out on this topic. In 2013 we should be able to evaluate the answer to this question just as easily as a question having to do with whether or not we should feed our kids something in school lunch.

And frankly, if you are writing a paper on this, @Eggie, you should probably be spending the time digging up the data. If you are presenting some kind of ethical argument paper, then we could take a different approach.

I don’t have a lot of time to prove my theory, but I did find this article specifically stating that sometimes children can fool parents, but generally not the school, and by puberty it can be too late. That being said, if someone told you your child was a psychopath, what would you do? See below.

By the time the sociopathic child reaches school age, he is already on his way to developing into a psychopath. The children may interact well with schoolmates but signs of antisocial behavior are there.

Some will exert control over other children by bullying them on the schoolyard while portraying a different personality at home. Both docs say that identifying sociopathic children early and getting them into treatment is crucial.

Dr. A said children should be assessed for signs of antisocial behavior as early as age 4. “By the time the sociopathic child reaches puberty, it’s often too late. He’s untreatable,” he said.
http://sandrarose.com/2008/03/are-you-raising-a-sociopath/

@Eggie, so now we’re beating kids because they come from a rough neighborhood? Wow, stereotype much? If a kid is angry to begin with and acting out in an anti-social manner all hitting that kid is going to do is confirm their suspicion that they are no good, or all authority figures are jerks, or that everyone is out to get them, or whatever thoughts and feelings led them to rebel in the first place. Hitting them is just going to piss the kid off and potentially make them want to leave the school which could take away their only shot at success in this life and improved conditions for the next generation.

@Eggie since you seem hellbent on finding justification for caning in schools, please do your future students a favor and transfer out of teachers college.

I am not hellbent on finding justification for that..please read so that you make more intelligent comments.

I don’t think kids will be learning for the right motives if caning is in questions. A lot of the most academically motivated students and I enjoy learning. I study because I like the gratification of doing well. That’s why I’m thriving. I don’t think I could learn if I was scared.

@Carinaponcho Good point. Fear doesn’t aid learning.

@Eggie I have read and all of your comments seem to be seeking some justification for caning kids in school. You kind of proved my point by making a snide remark asking me to make more intelligent comments simply because you don’t want to hear what I am saying. Would not liking what a student is saying be a cane-able offense in your classroom?

Nineteen states have laws that allow corporal punishment in public schools, according to the Center for Effective Discipline. Critics argue paddling does not stop bad behavior, while supporters say paddling teaches discipline and respect

When I was in middle school and high school, a student at Indiana in the 1970s, I don’t recall paddling being anything controversial. I recall paddlings were conducted by a teacher with a witness in an empty classroom and the student was given a choice: to receive one or two whacks with nothing more said about it or having parents called in. Interestingly, most kids elected for the paddling because they knew that getting their parents involved would be worse.
http://www.npr.org/2012/09/11/160952356/corporal-punishment-in-schools-does-it-work

Another good article about corporal punishment in Texas.
http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/03/05/2899317/thousands-of-students-still-take.html

At the end of the day, this is my true outlook on things. If we ask ourselves why do we obey the rules in our everyday lives, or what has made us get where we are today, is it because of caning or us being subjected to corporal punishment. For me, I am where I am today because of the value of doing what I do. I do not steal from someone because I know what it is like to work hard for something and I wont like anyone to steal from me. In other words, I do the right thing because I know it is right and not because of corporal punishment. With this being said, should methods be put in place to teach the values of why we shouldnt do wrong things in both the home and the school in place of corporal punishment?

@SuperMouse Sigh….....look I dont want an argument with you ok, but just know that I am not condoning anything( jeez i said that earlier!!!!) And I am hearing what you are saying and no I do not think that it is a cane able offence in my classroom.

To me, this is far worse than a quick swat on the hind-end.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/09/opinion/sunday/a-terrifying-way-to-discipline-children.html

@KNOWITALL : That is similar to comparing the palatabilty of arsenic vs. cyanide.

I am curious about all these answers honestly. Are any of you, besides @Supermouse, willing to disclose whether you were whipped or smacked as a child and how it has affected you? Or the opposite, were you not disciplined at all and still ended up a law-abiding person?

@KNOWITALL why do you assume that the only way to discipline is to hit? There are other methods of discipline.

I was disciplined but never whipped, smacked or manhandled, and I am a law-abiding person.

I raised two children and helped raise three step-sons. No one ever beat them. They all turned out to be exemplary citizens, interesting, contributing, and admirable members of society.

(Honestly.) No one I ever knew raised a hand to his or her children.

While this might be a derail, I’ll bite…

@KNOWITALL: “Are any of you, besides @Supermouse, willing to disclose whether you were whipped or smacked as a child and how it has affected you? Or the opposite, were you not disciplined at all and still ended up a law-abiding person?”

I was never hit as a child. Not once. My wife and I have never – and never will – hit our children.

Even taking the data out of the equation, even the concept of how this mechanism is supposed to work is beyond me. I’m tempted to start another thread, however. I recall in a sociology class in college we studied the correlation between social class and desired characteristics for their children. Lower economic classes (as well as certain countries) valued obedience to be high on the list, while upper socioeconomic classes did not value obedience, but valued independent thought high on the list. I can’t for the life of me find this, but I’m wondering if this topic is related to the concept of corporal punishment. My wife and I are not raising obedient children. We do not want them to fear us. We do not want to teach them that we deal with conflict with violence. And we definitely do not want our children to feel that it’s ok for people to hit them.

I’ll be honest – the entire concept of hitting a child is so counter-intuitive and seems to be a recipe for encouraging the worst in our children.

EDIT: I just found this link from an anti corporal punishment site has a short list of why not to spank. Covers much of my concerns.

@tom_g I’m not trying to derail in any way, I’m now interested in the conflicting data I’m finding.

^^ Like much of science, however, there are studies that may stand outside the consensus, so if you do find a study or two that fails to show negative effects (or the ineffectiveness of corporal punishment), make sure you keep in mind what the overwhelming number of scientific experts and organizations has determined. This is not – I repeat, not – argumentum ad populum or argument from authority. Rather, it’s just pointing out that the people who are most qualified to process and peer review the data have come to a particular conclusion. I just wanted to point this out.

Also, like I mentioned before, even if it were shown that corporal punishment was an effective means of “discipline”, it’s entirely possible to reject it on ethical grounds. It’s also completely reasonable to reject the desire to produce compliant children.

Sorry, @Eggie. I probably pulled this way off topic.

I am vehemently against corporal punishment because violence begets violence, and it’s a half-assed way to teach discipline because it only treats symptoms and not be the ‘cure’.

The amount of times i was spanked as a kid was less than five, and one of those times was not even by my parents, but by a teacher in the early 90s. A kid had hit me in the balls and I was chasing after him and managed to kick him in the leg when the teacher caught us and spanked only me with the ruler without listening to my side of the story.

Did it teach me discipline? or right from wrong? No. I had those without violence. It only taught me of Injustice and i hope she choked on her lunch just a little that day.

To me, it’s a no brainer: no.

Absolutely not. I don’t think corporal punishment is a good idea, no matter where it happens. To me, the ultimate irony is using physical ‘discipline’ to punish a child for physical violence. When you look at it in this context, the absurdity is pretty clear:

“How many times <SPANK> have I told you <SPANK> not to <SPANK> hit <SPANK> your sister?!? <SPANK, SPANK, SPANK>

Full disclosure: I was spanked maybe four times as a child, and I have actually spanked one of my children (a quick swat on the butt) when she ran into the street (it was a knee-jerk reaction out of fear), and actually tried spanking for another child when nothing else seemed to work. Spanking didn’t work either, so why hurt my kid for absolutely no reason?

But if not spanking, what can we do or put in place to teach children right from wrong?

“I have read some comments on You Tube..”

That was your first mistake. Allow me to redirect you to this recent relevant question

The trouble with any punishment are the side effects. Sure, it may ‘work’, in the sense that it discourages some behaviour – sometimes, for a while. But regardless of that, there are plenty of negative aspects… Lies, for example. Loss of trust. The fact that punishments need to get harsher and harsher to continually make an impression. An affinity to violence when trying to solve conflicts. An unhealthy longing to please authority, as @KNOWITALL put it. The list goes on, but that’s not what you were asking.
As to ‘How can we teach children right from wrong?’, @Eggie…:
We could set good examples. Talk to them. Show we expect them to behave in a certain way, and trust that they’ll try to live up to those expectations. Because they will.
The only thing corporal punishments may do is install fear and, thus, obedience. Not out of trust or respect, but because someone stronger ‘says so’. I fail to see the educational value there.

*instill, of course.

Then it is very safe to say that society on a whole can survive without any use of corporal punishment then either at home or in the school?

Yes, @Eggie, it is definitely safe to say that. There are many ways to discipline a child that don’t rely on corporal punishment. Setting consistent rules and expectations, rewarding ‘good’ behavior, giving negative consequences (such as grounding or time-out) for ‘bad’ behavior, teaching children why they shouldn’t do certain things, talking, etc. There is just no need to hit a child.

@KNOWITALL In my mind, spanking isn’t necessarily abuse (though I don’t condone it), but hitting a child with a belt, shoe, cane (as in this question) or any other object definitely is. While I’m sure you think it did you no harm, I’m sorry you had that experience as a child. :(

I was in school when corporal punishment still occurred. They needed parental permission, though. I got in trouble once and they called my dad (oh, gawd). I could hear him screaming over the phone that if they touched me, he would give them a much more difficult time than I (me) would.

Corporal punishment is ineffective and usually more of a detriment than a smart-ass child.

I’ve been following this question since it was posted.

I do not agree with corporal punishment for children, at home or in the school. I agree with the many who stated it does not teach the child anything but to fear their elders and authority figures. Am I saying this punishment will emotionally mess up every child? No, of course not. Their are many people who’ve been spanked/whipped as children and turned out fine (at least they seem fine).

We are into the 21st century. I don’t see why so many people are still smacking their kids. We should know better by now, shouldn’t we? I understand there are some very unruly children. I empathize with parents who just don’t know what to do any more. I wish there were more visible/available education methods for disciplining children through the media and communities. Usually, parents don’t look into them until there is a problem. By that time, the problem child has a very set and routine way of life in the family home (making it that much harder to change methods of discipline). This is why I think all parents should be required to take parenting classes before the child is born. It would be even more useful if classes were required at every stage of the child’s development. In addition, some variation of these classes/information should be taught to anyone working with children (including teachers). I understand the financial strain on the education system. So I am not sure how this would be implemented. But I can think of a few cuts in frivolous government spending that could drastically help the education system.

I’m not sure where my personal experience fits into the question. Corporal punishment was used excessively in my childhood home…but so were other harsh discipline methods – more so abuse. To try and answer more clearly, I’ll separate the obvious abuse from the corporal punishment. This type of punishment, on it’s own, taught me nothing but to fear anyone bigger, louder and more powerful than I. I never remembered the actual reasons for being punished. I only remember the pain and fear. I learnt nothing useful to take into adulthood from this. Perhaps it is because I rarely misbehaved as a child? I usually did not understand why I was in trouble. I was told but it didn’t make sense to me. At school, I was also very well-behaved and quiet. We did not have corporal punishment in school. There were a few incidences though. Those situations were dealt with but no teacher was ever fired for such behaviour. If these things happened now, they would almost certainly be fired on the spot (and possibly charged). This shows a slow change in punishment standards in our society…especially regarding children in the home and at school.

So, again… No. Corporal punishment should be done away with by now. These children are just that, children. Why should any adult be smacking these little people around? How can we justify an adult physically disciplining a child, who is much smaller and weaker than them? We are supposed to me more mature than that, aren’t we? I am not saying that parents who spank their kids should be hulled off to jail or humiliated. I’m saying there needs to be a change in how discipline is viewed and understood, by the average parent. I believe that change is happening. It’s slow, but it’s happening.

Now we have conclusive neuroscientific evidence that this approach impairs learning.

@augustlan Thank you.

My childhood wasn’t ideal, but I certainly know right from wrong and stay on the right side as an adult..lol