Help, please, divorce and children issue?

I am not divorced, my parents were.

It seems that there is little that your friend can do about the situation. It likely is your friend’s boyfriend that has a poor relationship with his ex-wife. In a situation like that children get caught in the middle with a lot of guilt for having feelings toward both parents.

All your friend can do is discuss with her boyfriend, support him and make clear intents and agreements with him to always show visible support for his relationship with his children. Else, she runs a high risk of becoming their lightning rod, blaming her for their negative emotions in the relationship with their father..

Again: she – in my opinion – does best in continuing to show support for her boyfriends relationship with his children. For that reason she also better stay away from any trying to raise them / set them straight.

@whitenoise no, she’s not looking to raise them. They are all in their mid to late teens. The boyfriend is not aggressive at all , and has always tried to keep the peace, but his ex has rage management issues, for which she attends therapy. I think what she wants to know is how honest to be with her observations, and she’s worried I think that she stands to lose a person she has loved for over three years, and it scares her. She has kids of her own about the same age, so she knows about being a parent and has never tried to overstep. she waned to meet his kids for a long time, and has deferred to her boyfriend’s time table.

Your firend needs to stay out of between the father and his children and his first marriage. It seems the children have not been taking the divorce well. All she can do is be pleasant and not intervene.

Only time will help. If she is her lovely self and they get to know her (as a friend; a non-judgmental person) they will probably come around on their own.

@marinelife thanks for your thoughts. She doesn’t want to come between, but I think she does not want to become a “casualty” either. So, more wanting advice. Share her observations with him or not. That type of thing.

She should only share her observations if he directly asks for them. Otherwise, I would say she needs to stay out of their relationship. I cannot imagine my sons wanting my Ex’s girlfriend involved in their lives at this point.

@Qipaogirl
I never insinuated any aggresion from the boyfriend. (or from anyone, for that matter.)

Just…kids get caught in between quit easily. His ex may feel hurt,his kids see that and see him as the cause of that hurt.

There is little she can do, except stay out of the relationship be supportive and wait for time to heal wounds.

@whitenoise thanks for returning to the question. I am trying to share these responses and type with a crying person next to me. The response was based to the “poor relationship” statement. I was trying to share that she witnesses him trying to keep things cordial with the ex, but it doesn’t work. That’s all, apologies if you feel your words were misconstrued.

Would you advise her sharing her observations from the dinner? They have not spoken since the upset with his son occurred, and she is not sure if she should bring up the things she observed at dinner.

@Qipaogirl If you read my answer, I addressed that issue exactly.

@janbb thanks for your thoughts. Are your children about the same age and years out from the divorce? He’s waited this long to introduce in person because he wanted to respect feelings. He has not forced the two that don’t wish to meet her into doing so. Do you think it’s a case of children never being ready. My daughter was fine with this after her father and I divorced, and I know she’s an anomaly, so I don’t know much about…

@janbb just read your answer, and yes you did address. Many thanks again!

I am with @janbb there…

There is little good she can do…

Foremost… also she should realize it is neither within her powers, nor her responsibility to fix.

@Qipaogirl We are only separated not yet divorced and my kids are adults. I don’t think there is anything wrong in him having the kids that want to meet her, meet her; I just don’t think she should offer opinions unless she is asked for them.

@Qipaogirl janbb has it right. She should keep her thoughts about his children adn their relationship with him to herself. If she needs an outlet for her own feelings, it needs to not be him. If he asks her, she can comment.

@marinelife, @janbb and @whitenoise thanks for exchanging back and forth on this. I am the outlet.I think what we both don’t know what to with the aftermath. Is the notion basically let him lead, and if he asks her opinion offer it, and if he doesn’t she should not…

yep… that would be the notion, but also not to take this emotional burden upon her.

This is not her cross to carry and not her ‘fight’ to fight. (No aggression intended!!!!)

@Qipaogirl Exactly.

@whitenoise Smiles, no agression perceived. Thank you for all your time and thoughts!

@janbb thanks again, and I hope that things work out for you and your family.

@Qipaogirl Oh – they are working out. Just not in ways I anticipated or desired.

@janbb I hope it’s not too bad. It’s never good, I know. I ended up needing to find a new career and support myself and my child entirely as most income sources were tossed out by the court. Meanwhile the ex is retired. It is scary and awful, but you will get past it.

@Qipaogirl Thanks.

@janbb you are welcome! My very best wishes, and again, thank you, for your shared thoughts and wisdom.

Home from school, so I assume home from college? Those years are very very stressful for young adults. Transitioning from being a child in their parent’s home to being adults on their own. Trying to decide what to major in with worry about how it affects the rest of their life. Tension between parents and child is very normal. Parents who are divorced are easy targets for blame when children feel out of control. I assume children feel very unable to control their environment when their parents divorce, and if his dad also was dating someone and did not tell the children right away (which is understandable and common) the child might feel it is a pattern. Also, parents do tell kids what to do do when they are young, that is their role to some extent.

I think this likely has more to do with his child’s own anxieties and adjustments to becoming an adult more than anything. I can’t know for sure obviously.

Interesting perspective, @JLeslie.

@JLeslie, thank you so much for your suggestion. My friend felt that his son was trying to make a point by remarking again and again about how things were imposed upon him. We thought maybe that he was trying to tell his father that he felt that bringing my friend to two dinners imposed on his time and life, but the whole lack of control issue is most interesting. We have decided that based on much of what was written here all my friend can do is be supportive and try to remind her significant other that he has been a good parent.

I think your friend is going to do right by her man mostly by following his lead. If he wants to discuss this with her she should be there for him, listen, and provide input. Otherwise I think she should stay out of it.

One variable I think needs to be figured into the equation is where your friend and this man are with their relationship. Are they a new couple? A long term couple? Engaged, living together? I think this makes a difference because if they are just casually seeing each other she really has no standing to provide commentary on his relationship with his kids. If they are in a serious long term relationship and is likely to have to witness these exchanges on the regular, she is in a better place to share. I have told two of my husband’s grown children that I refuse to stand by and watch them disrespect the man I love. It worked, they don’t try to walk all over him in my presence anymore and if they do, I will call them out again.

Also, there is no doubt that my ex has filled his girlfriend’s heads wi all kinds of lies and crap about what a lousy mother and human being I am. Please remember that there are two sides to every story.

Thanks @SuperMouse they have been a couple for three years. The children have known about her for almost two years, but two have refused to meet her. The oldest one met her briefly a couple of times previously. We don’t know if the oldest son was aware that his visit to his dad would include the two dinners or not. He’s been here ten days, and aside from the two dinners she has remained out of their sphere. The children are shared equally by their parents, and when he is with them it is in their neighborhood, not the area where my friend lives. She’s never tried to force herself in, and she knows that the ex spouts a lot of ire that is not true about her.

Does your husband feel tremendous guilt over his children’s anger? Apparently, my friend’s significant other trends to take all the blame upon himself forgetting the role of others.

@Qipaogirl my husband feels some guilt but much of what happened in his relationship with the mother of his kids was out of his control and he ended up with full custody so he has a pretty good perspective.

I made the mistake of thinking that blending our families would be easier because his kids are grown, but that has not proven to be the case. Grown kids just come with a different set of issues. We got the best of both worlds; I brought school aged kids into the marriage, he brought grown kids.

It sounds to me like she could use a few sessions with a family counselor. They have experience with what works and what doesn’t.

@SuperMouse From what I have read and experienced in my own life there is no easy blending. You are correct, the kids being adults in a family blending just brings other issues.

What do you feel my friend should do back off and let him lead as other suggested, or something else. She knows he’s a self blamer, and she fears that he’ll absorb all of this and rather than being constructive just berate himself instead.

@YARNLADY Thanks for the idea. She’s already broached that with me, and I think she wants to bring the idea up to him. I don’t know whether he has the finances to undertake it, but probably needed.

@Qipaogirl I didn’t get the impression his kid was angry with your friend.

@JLeslie no the son said that he enjoyed dinner. My friend says that the evening was enjoyable. What bothered him, it seems was seeing that his father had “another life” where he was doing things with my friend and the similarly aged daughter. Sort of a sense of displacement . The son had known about the relationship for two years, and nothing has really changed in their father son relationship as a result of my friend’s presense. He reassured him that replacement is not possible, but I don’t know how much the son still feels bothered.

It’s tricky. It could mostly be about the past. Was the child raised primarily in his mom’s house? Did she have much less? Less money, difficult jobs? Was he around a lot?

Also, sometimes parents ask their children something or give advice and really arevjust fine with their child saying no or not choosing what the parent prefers, but for the child they still feel put upon, or the burden of having to please their parent. I think parents don’t realize their influence a lot of the time, even when their intention is good, honest, and innocent. I have no idea if that is at play. What I am getting at is the dad may or may not have been demanding and controlling, but for the child, from the child’s perspective, it might feel that way. Even adult children. Again, I have no idea if that is happening here.

It sounds like the father and son talked, which is good. My gut feeling is the dad just needs to reassure his son, whatever the son’s concerns are. And, remember parents are easy targets for the angst of adolesence.

It sounds like there is some jealousy there. What pops in my mind is when someone breaks off a relationship and is happy to be done, but then sees tgeir ex with someone else and gets pains of jealousy. Even when the feeling shouldn’t be there using our logical sense, there it is.

@JLeslie Situation is child was equally with both parents after divorce until he went away to school. Mom stayed in the family home, and dad moved five minutes away. My friend does not live in the same town, so they sound their time together where she lives because of the friction. So, when his time with the children comes up, she’s not there. The oldest son, is the only one who has been open to meeting her.

What was interesting was that the one thing my friend mentioned that the son accused the father of forcing him to do the father didn’t actually force upon him.

I think that they did speak, father and son, and are still speaking. I think, my friend has walked on pins and needles for many years over the whole situation. It’s had knowing the two kids won’t even meet her, and the one that did became wildly upset fearing replacement. Shaky ground and such…

@Qipaogirl What you said about the child feeling something was forced upon him goes witg what I was pointing out. I am not a parent, and I don’t understand how some parents seem to forget their influence over their children. I also think it has to do with personalities. The son might feel responsible for everyone’s happiness. I think this is very common in the eldest child.

I do find it odd the kids won’t meet her. It seems quite extreme, but I am not a child of divorce nor do I have children. My assumption is the kids feel it will upset their mother.

I think your friend should not overthink it, lay low, and hope it works itself out. It is up to her boyfriend to make it right with the family.

How long have they been divorced?

@JLeslie thanks so much for your time and thoughts! Apparently, there’s much bad mouthing about my friend. She was not the cause of the divorce, but caught the blame. His ex just blames her and the father when she is frustrated. The whole sort of “she’ll steal everything.” Oddly enough, my friend is far more fortunate than him financially, and he does not pay for her bills etc. I think the younger two were more vulnerable to ire and dishonest portrayal.

Thanks for seconding our thoughts. When he called she just reminded him that he’s a great parent, and to remember that they have been careful about not impinging their relationship on his children’s time. They speak of marriage, and I think this situation makes her nervous.

Divorce was a lengthy thing, and I am not sure when things began and ended. He was in the middle of the divorce when they met.

Hmmmm
looks like the son has felt betrayed in the past and possibly in the present when meeting with you.
The son in his own way is showing you what he thinks his father is really like, a telling sign.

I am just guessing in this situation, but I think that the son was hoping that you were not as “good” as his mother ( replacement).And as a result feels insecure.

Most children of divorce, still in later years ( never ending) “HOPE” that their parents will get back together and some, but not all try and sabatoge the new relationship?

How long have you been dating his father?
Might be the son thinks you are responsible for the breakup?
I was married and divorced with thre children who never lost hope even now! ( they are grown adults in there thirties and forties?
In my case it took over 20— 25 years when both daughters filed for divoce themselves,
before they began to understand!

I rarely if ever involved my children in my own relationships with dates etc
I kept my life with my children separate.
It was easier for everyone.

The son and father have much unsaid things to straighten out yet…it could take years.
Are you willing to support them emotionally and distance yourself from both at times like these? perhaps theraphy?

Get used to it.
See your self as the sons friend not step mother or whatever?
You are Not ever going to be the sons replacement mother.

The son may also feel extremely protective of his mother and even her memories.
Do not infringe on his relationships with his father AND mother.
He will just begin to hate you for it in the end and you may lose your relationship with your boyfriend anyways.

Try and be understanding and see things from the sons perspective.
He had been betrayed by both parents , he feels, so he is on guard of future betrayals.
He needs to feel that he can trust realationships of all kinds now.
This will take time and understanding and maturity of all involved.

Good luck to all of you in this situation. you can get through it with patience and understanding and remembering that you are a mature adult and he is a youth still learning.

@Inspired_2write thanks so much for your thoughtful and considered reply. I will share it with my girlfriend. I don’t know the whole story, but I do know the the son has always had a difficult relationship with his own mother, and perhaps what you said about not wanting to like my friend was true. She said both dinners were enjoyable, and time flew, so perhaps he was hoping to dislike her, didn’t and is now upset.

She’s not trying to be their mother. When her boyfriend is with his children she is not present, given the feelings of the younger two not wanting to be involved, and the oldest child is away at school. They all all high school and college ages, so she’s not looking to be or replace their mother.

As a remarried person myself, with kids, I know that what you say about kids holding onto mom an dad getting back together is often the case. Have you avoided long term relationships in general out of the desire not to hurt your children?

I think my friend is both kind and patient, and not one to push herself upon or intrude upon people. No she did not cause the divorce, but the ex loves to tell the children that it is because of her that things are what they are…

Long story short, if she did not love this guy so much, she would not put up with all of the nonsense that she does.

Again, thank you for your wisdom!

I did not avoid long term relationships. Rather I kept discreet.

@Inspired_2write so you have not permitted your two lives to overlap? That’s sort of what my friend and her SO have done. Though I think it is hard for the SO because he feels as though he’s hiding a large part of his life. So, I think the whole meeting was his idea. Do you think that it would be possible to have a sustained relationship where the two worlds never crossed?

Of course its done most of the time.
Less conflict.
Children of Divorce never get over the divorce, or feelings of abandonment.
Until they get theraphy to understand their feelings.
As a single parent I had needs of my own to fulfill…that I kept separate.
None ever became serious until my children got older.
When they themselves were involved in realtionships of their own. ( understanding).