Can we discuss the Adria Richards thing better than the rest of the internet?

I had very little exposure to the story and the associated vitriol, but it does seem to be a bit of a tempest in a teapot.

So here’s my first question: if Adria Richards felt that the (incredibly juvenile) behavior of the men was sexual harrassment, did she have a legitimate method to address her concerns? Was there a system in place to lodge a complaint and expect investigation and action?

My next question would be: did the employer of the men in question have a sexual harrassment policy in place? Did they follow accepted protocols for dealing with this behavior? If they have a clear policy for what constitutes grounds for immediate dismissal, then did this behavior meet those standards?

And, of course, did Adria Richards’s employer have protocols for professional behavior? Did they follow them?

I think it’s reasonable to expect a certain level of behavior in a professional setting without being considered “too PC”. So where’s the line between assinine behavior and sexual harrassment? I don’t know. And God knows that our current social media addiction results in over-exposure.

On the one hand, it seems to me that bad behavior was responded to with bad behavior – not a good idea. But I could see the argument that this was a situation in which someone (Adria Richards) may have felt frustrated that she was continuously exposed to a hostile environment and that she didn’t have an effective way to affect that environment except through public shaming. It just seems unfortunate that it’s become such a contentious occurance.

I don’t know much about the tech culture but IF a culture of sexisim exists then the one good thing that could come out of this is that a conversation has been started and companies will be forced to evaluate their policies and examine if they should clarify their standards of conduct.
Trying to read up on this made it seem like the tech community is stuck in an early episode of Mad Men. I don’t know if that’s true but if it is this incident has provided an opportunity for change.

The dudes should have kept their dongle jokes to themselves. Publicly calling them out was a shitty thing to do, but it seems to have worked, so I have a hard time condemning it.

I don’t really know what to think about this one. I don’t believe the men were being sexually harassing, rather that they were having an immature, “tech frat boy” type conversation that was overheard. Having said that, I can see where a woman would be really frustrated by the bullshit she has to consistently put up with in a male dominated field, and I can see where she would lose her patience and tweet about it.

I certainly don’t think anyone should have been fired over it. I do feel that everyone totally hating on this woman and making rape jokes and threats against her should be fucking bitchslapped for their douchebaggery.

I guess what I’m saying is that I’m taking no one’s side on this, except to side against the completely asinine people involved in the internet shitstorm who are placing all of the blame on Ms. Richards and proving her point about how women are treated.

This was a huge mess all around. Yet, I can’t seem to figure out what to make of it all without breaking it into smaller pieces.

1. The joke. The joke in question was hardly a joke at all, was not funny, and really just amounted to a type of silly comment immature men and little boys are prone to making. But was it sexist? Some people have commented that while it wasn’t technically sexist, it may have been sexual. I think this point is up for debate as well. Anyone who lives with young kids (or was a pre-pubescent boy) knows that if you can work in a penis, poo, or pee comment into your sentence, you will. But we’re talking about adults here. Sure, a possible geeky man-child. But he should know – or should be made aware of the fact that it could be taken as a sexual comment. But no amount of logic seems to get us to a place where we go from sexual to sexist. That brings up the larger context…

2. They were at a Python conference. The offender was with his co-workers, and made the comment/”joke” to a colleague. But, as many people have said, this is a professional conference. So, a certain level of behavior/speech should be expected. Note however, that while at an event with co-workers, there may be a false sense of security or familiarity that may result in less than a 100% “professional behavior/speech” compliance. This brings up the intent.

3. Nobody seems to have argued that the offender was intentially trying to offend someone. It could very well be that he had no idea that he was being inappropriate at all – or that anyone other than his coworkers would hear him as they awaited the next speaker. But again, we’re left with an ever larger picture….

4. Women in tech. In some areas of tech, women are still ridiculously under-represented. This isn’t a huge difference in my experience (my boss is a woman, and in general women have made up between 33% and 40% of the development/support/qa groups within my tech companies I have worked). But I believe in general, there is an understanding that everyone would like to attract more women to tech. So, it’s in the best interest of everyone there to make this an environment that is welcoming to women. From what I have read, PyCon had done a great job in this area. This context seems necessary in understanding Adria’s response…

5. Adria’s response. There is little question that if she had turned around and told her fellow PyCon attendees to act professionally, the situation would have ended there. Humiliation would have ensued, and this guy would have never heard the end of it from his colleagues. He may have just apologized and that would have been it. Big fat important note: This is not “blaming the victim”. Period. If your reflex is to there, I highly recommend you consider how harmful and absurd such is. At the time of the conference, there is no possible way to imagine a scenario in which Adria was a “victim” (Note: This drastically changes after the conference). Anyway, her response was to smile, turn around, take a photo of the guys and tweet it in an attempt to publicly shame them (or worse). Another serious note: I am going to say right now that Adria’s actions here were wrong on many levels. Very wrong. Morally wrong. But this is only speaking about her actions at the conference.

6. The firing of the offender. A father of 3 was fired for making a stupid, unfunny comment to his colleague about a dongle at a tech conference. Here are his comments following the event. It’s important to point out that Adria likely had no intention of getting this guy fired. But human as we all are, she reacted in a way that was inappropriate. And a family lost an income because of it. She was probably terrified at that point and felt horrible. This is where things got very wrong…

7. The torrent of hate towards Adria. The outrage was insane – on Twitter, Reddit, etc, people were exposing some of the worst sexist/misogynist shit I have seen. There were rape and death threats, it’s reported that she was doxed, and there were DDOS attacks against her employer, SendGrid. This is where the real “meat” of this story lies, in my opinion. Sure, many of us felt a tinge of anger towards here because we saw that fat dork making a dongle joke as us. I have 3 kids. Imagine if someone went on some crusade because of a bad joke not intended for them and had me fired? Parental protection kicks in, and sure – there is some anger. But the way this played out ended up proving that we have a problem after all. In other words, Adria did something really awful (she really did – we just have to admit to this). But the aftermath seemed to reveal a larger male-dominated tech community that is festering with misogyny and sexism This didn’t seem to play a role in the dongle joke at PyCon – which is what made Adria’s actions so abhorrent and absurd. But she seems to have stirred the pot in such as way that we have seen something uglier than we have imagined.

8. Ideal fantasy-world situation: Adria turned around, asked the guy to stop, and he becomes “aware” that he was making her uncomfortable. He stops. Win. Adria doesn’t have to hear the joke (oh, it pains me to type that sentence). Joke guy doesn’t lose his job. Adria has made some progress in making tech conferences more female-friendly. Now, wait a minute, you might say? What about that man-child who made the dongle joke? Why isn’t your fantasy scenario one in which he doesn’t make the dongle joke. Why? Because that is not a world in which I am interested in living in. “A world without dongle jokes is not worth living?” No. That’s not what I mean. I mean, I want to live in a world in which people are able to communicate when they are uncomfortable with particular speech, and have that concern respectfully considered. We can’t predict with any amount of certainty which speech will offend and which will not. But we should be prepared to consider others when our speech has inadvertently reached a different target, and that target is not amused.

The bigger picture here is one in which a woman feels that an innocent, dumb non-sexist statement is sexist – only to spark a shitstorm of misogyny and sexism that makes more sense of Adria’s actions, while not necessarily justifying them.

Just a few thoughts on it.

@tom_g , that should be published. Send it to the Huffington Post or some tech news page. That was not only brilliant but well written enough that a tech handicapped person like me could appreciate and understand it. That’s an article I would share on Facebook.

I’m going to have to think about this one for a bit longer, @tom_g. I hadn’t heard of it before you posted.

The thing that I keep getting stuck on is the fury that got stirred following her tweet. Can we assume that the disgusting comments aimed at her are representative of the undercurrent prevalent in tech, at some unknown/undisclosed level? If so, expecting her to turn around and ask the guys to grow the hell up is, in effect, asking her to an entire system that allows men to act like animals and treat women as prey. Isn’t that asking a bit much?

What you are expecting is for a woman who was offended to be brave. Be brave and publicly address. Personally, I don’t expect people to be brave.

I have been raped. I have been emotionally abused. I have PTSD. When I hear comments/“jokes” of a sexual nature, I freeze. I applaud anyone who could have behaved in your ideal manner, and agree that it is ideal, but I’m not sure that it’s expected.

I worked in a company that was bought by another company where sexual comments and actions were so, so common. I spoke to my boss about my discomfort. This required tremendous bravery on my part. I don’t think you can imagine how much bravery this required. I was metaphorically patted on the head and dismissed. Then I was “downsized”. At this point in my life, I am able to address some things on my own… but I don’t have faith in institutions to address them. I don’t trust. And I can’t always be brave.

@tom_g Nailed it.

@syz – Good questions. Re: “So where’s the line between assinine behavior and sexual harrassment?” Good question. But clearly, nobody will claim that a geek making an unfunny, and arguably un-sexual comment to a coworker qualifies as asinine or sexual harassment. It may qualify as unprofessional, but at this point, I don’t see how we can use those terms to describe the dongle comment.

@Judi – I haven’t seen Mad Men, but I really want to point out that in my experience here in Massachusetts, it’s not token women in tech. Everyone would love more women, and it’s important that we all make sure that tech is an attractive path for women. But like I said, the average development/professional services/qa/project management teams in my experience are made up at least 33% to 40%. More of my bosses have been women than men.

@nikipedia: “Publicly calling them out was a shitty thing to do, but it seems to have worked, so I have a hard time condemning it.” I’m not sure what in particular “worked”. A guy lost his job. She lost her job. She will likely find it difficult to work and be trusted again, as she’s seen as a bully. The conversation that came about from a decidedly unsexist comment and event have been awful. It seems like a ton of losing all around.

@WillWorkForChocolate: “Having said that, I can see where a woman would be really frustrated by the bullshit she has to consistently put up with in a male dominated field, and I can see where she would lose her patience and tweet about it.” We can see that and recognize at the same time that her outrage about that particular event was not proportional to the situation, and someone she knew nothing about paid the price. That’s what happens when people try to use a particular event as an outlet for an accumulation of events.

@Judi – I’m not all that comfortable with what I wrote, but thanks. I think I’m likely missing some important subtleties or aspects to this whole thing.

@Cupcake – Well, I don’t know what to say. Your perspective is important. You’re right. Not everyone has the ability to speak up. It would be nice if we didn’t have to speak up. But I don’t see change happening without that step. But in this particular case, it’s likely that her “sensitivity” to the dongle comment has been colored by other real cases of unwanted sexual innuendo directed at her. She seems like someone who would not have taken that – she writes quite extensively about women and tech. So, I am confused as to how this would have been one of those “finally losing it” moments. The only reasonable explanation I have is that she was just tired or something, and she made a mistake. A costly one. We all do.

@Red_Turtle – I disagree. I’m starting to think that I’m talking in circles, and likely haven’t come up with anything solid to say about this issue. But thanks.

@tom_g Yes, totally. While I can see why she did it, she still mishandled the situation. I’m not placing all the blame on either side, but she definitely doesn’t deserve all the hate and threats she’s been getting. This whole thing is just bizarre to me.

I’d not heard of this furore until I read up on it after reading the question & well…what a sad/pathetic commentary on the professionally offended, ultra p.c world we live in, get a fucking grip woman.

Freedom of speech, the bitch should be hounded until she kills herself, there is no more that needs to be added.

@poisonedantidote, wow.

@poisonedantidote – See, even if you think you’re being funny here, this is exactly what I was talking about.

I’m curious – could you come back and provide a serious response?

@tom_g When I am close to a subject I see a ton of subtleties. Undertones and get wrapped up in finding a solution for every detail. Only to find if I change one thing someone else pays.

Seems to me this now what you are doing. Yes people lose out. There is no perfect solution.

Compromise and tolerance and communication all involve a level of sacrifice. And there is a learning curve.

Some pay more then others. Some events trigger other events in a ripple effect. And events such as these where personal cost is high as well as publicity work to set precedence and are teachable moments.

I am personally reminded of some historical law making decisions where the defendent or victim paid unjustly in order to set precendent. Justice is not just.

These people’s lives will go on. And hopefully they are the wiser for them. Hopefully this situation will make make them stronger and not the reverse. But they are the ones who control that.

Maybe things will be uncomfortable at your work despite that you feel your workplace is not guilty of the behavior typified and detailed by the media and Adria. Some changes might occur. Some of them may be for the worse but I think you have power to help influence these things. Then this too shall pass.

I hadn’t heard about this until you asked the question, so thanks for bringing it to my attention. There’s a lot to sift through. My thoughts:

I don’t think the ‘jokes’ were sexual harassment, but they certainly were out of place at the event and could easily make people uncomfortable. Professional adults should certainly know better.

Publicly shaming the men in question was uncalled for. I do think she had every right to A) tell the guys to knock it off and why, B) report their behavior to the conference organizers, and C) write publicly about the incident. Having public conversations about such behavior is good, but she should have withheld their pictures/names. Identifying them publicly seems unnecessarily punitive.

I don’t think firing the guy was necessary. A talk, followed by an apology, should have been enough. Obviously, in hindsight, the firing didn’t calm the waters at all. What purpose has it served?

The attacks on Ms. Richards following his dismissal are just crazy, and make me incredibly sad. How can people act like that? Surely, she had no intention of getting the dude fired. Any anger people feel about that should be directed at his employer, not her. The fact that it is aimed at her, and is so over the top vicious and hateful, does point to the fact that there is an awful lot of work to be done regarding misogyny in this field and beyond.

As to her firing…I have mixed feelings. My first choice would be the same one I suggested for the man who was fired; a talk followed by an apology (only for picturing/naming the men, not for ‘complaining’ publicly). However, if that didn’t solve the problems, and I were the owner of a company that has been turned upside down due to all the negative publicity, I might consider firing her. In no way am I suggesting that anyone should be fired for what she did. I’m not, I promise. But the company has a lot more people to look out for than just her. Better to let one person go than let the company go under because of controversy surrounding one person. I’d hate myself for doing it, but if I felt I had to, I probably would.

That was my serious answer, all be it a blunt/short version.

She is one of these petty little snitching tell tale small people, who in my opinion are basically a waste of space. The exact kind of person that goes out of their way to cause problems where there is no problem, the same kind of sneaky idiot that walks round an office, spreading rumors by the water cooler, with a shocked gossip expression on her face. Saying: “OMG you will never believe the dull boring pointless shit that is the highlight of my day today”.

These guys were in public just joking, and she went out of her way to lose them their jobs, literally because she has nothing better to do in life.

On top of this, she posted a joke about dicks that was more direct and more “offensive” than a dongle joke on her own twitter account, before the incident. Basically trying to cause them problems for something that she her self has been known to do.

I am quite serious when I say, if you are a small petty bitch that can go round trying to lose people their jobs in an economic crisis, over a joke that you too have made, then it is probably better if she just takes herself out of the gene pool and dies.

There are people in the world who are starving, people who are homeless with no job, war, disease, and corruption, and her biggest contribution to humanity, is tell tale problem causing like a 5 year old who snitches about who is kissing who, because in her small brain, that counts as a significant event to her some how for some reason.

She basically took their joke as serious as a sane person would take hearing that a child has been abducted, or that a war has been declared and we all risk invasion. I can just imagine the look on her dumb-should-not-be-alive face, and it honestly makes me angry.

May the online trolling she will now be subject to cause her to suicide bomb a room full of people just like her.

@tom_g: “Can we discuss the Adria Richards thing better than the rest of the internet?”

Apparently not.