As a rule of thumb ladies go fisrt when you are going upstairs, right? what about when you are going downstairs?

haha i love how all the guys are thinking about etiquette with ladies. i have never really analyzed this stuff myself. but yeah, what you said makes sense. you should go before her (while going downstairs) so you can break the fall. ouch.

On the Cosby show the you’re supposed to go second when going UP stairs and first when going downstairs.

Both “the rule of thumb” and going upstairs after the lady, are things the ladies would likely not prefer.

When you’re going upstairs the men go first. This etiquette as many others were made up in the early days. In these days the ladies would wear dresses… So to keep her from giving away a sneak peek, men would go first.

When going downstairs the lady goes first. Again this has to do with the dress.

The etiquette’s concerning the stairs are often mistaken with the “ladies go first” rule, but this rule is often misused.

When entering a room ladies go first. Unless you’re treating her to a fine dinner and you’re entering a restaurant. Or any other public area. Then the men go first, as you would be welcomed by a employee who talks business with the men in question. It would be rude for the employee to talk to the lady directly in presence of her husband.

How can you stare at her ass if you go first?

I always go second.

Seriously. I always go second. I’m pretty sure she can descend the “magic steps” without falling over. If she can’t I probably shouldn’t waste my time trying to catch her.

@johnpowell What if she is your SO and she is actually falling?

Oh yes, you big strong boys must protect us delicate little flowers. Obviously we won’t be able to stay on our feet without protection!!

Seriously though: throw away all your rules of thumb and etiquette on how to belittle women and just go with common courtesy like holding a door for the person behind you or let a shorter person stand in front of you at concerts, etc.

…and don’t forget to always walk on the street side of the sidewalk with the lady on the other so that if a car hits a puddle you get soaked instead of her.

And if you’re too demeaning to her, she can push you in to that puddle herself…...I kinda like that rule!

But you will have already placed your jacket over the puddle for her to walk on so it won’t be too much of a big deal. : )

that depends how hard she pushes…...

The second I saw this question, I wondered how many responses there would be before someone got all shirty about how it’s demeaning to women. If being a little chivalrous makes me sexist…? Well, then I guess I’m sexist. God forbid people be polite and respect each other…

Besides, if I am chivalrous it also means that I am allowed to smack a woman in the face when she gets all mouthy. (joke)

MacBean, it’s not chivalry that bothers me, it’s lines like: “It would be rude for the employee to talk to the lady directly in presence of her husband.” that gets my back up.

I can certainly appreciate a gesture (from a man or woman), but the idea of “you must be treated this way because you’re only a woman” makes my blood boil to say the very least! Attitudes like that make me wish I was a hermaphrodite so people can’t categorise based on gender.

@wildflower Yeah, I get what you’re saying. I treat everyone like that and it gets on my nerves when people treat others a certain way based on gender. I’m especially sensitive to it because I’ve got gender issues. I hate it when people actually say they’re behaving a certain way or doing something for me “because you’re a lady.” Because I may be female-bodied but, dammit, I don’t identify as female. How about being respectful and/or helping me out just because I’m a human being?

And I think I’m preaching to the choir here.

Yep, you really are! People can feel free to be nice to Me because they want to, because they like me, or whatever – but don’t do it because I’m the weaker sex !

you guys have taken the meaning of this question on the wrong side. You can see it from your own perspective, but doesn’t change the original intent of this tread. Besides if you are a guy, would you open the door for a guy you go out with? If you don’t it doesn’t mean you disrespect him. When a guy opens the door for a woman it’s called chivalry, when a woman opens the door for a guy it’s called servant.

“When a guy opens the door for a woman it’s called chivalry, when a woman opens the door for a guy it’s called servant.”

When a person opens the door for a person it’s called polite. It shouldn’t have anything to do with gender.

@edmartin
Do you see women as people? Or just cute little things you have to treat in a certain way??
That last sentence in your post above, is what’s wrong. I frequently hold the door for other people. One example could be me holding the door for my direct reports at work as we go in for our staff meeting – that does not make me their servant, I am still their boss, I just happen to think it’s very impolite to let a door close on someone’s face!!

@wildflower That applies if you are in front of them, of course is only natural for you to do that, but what if you are behind them, would you rush to the door pass them up and open for those guys?

Of course I see women as people, not as the weak link cos a lot of them are stronger than men in certain ways

Certain ways as in cooking and cleaning?

I honestly don’t expect a guy to show me any more chivalry than he would anyone else (including other blokes) and I would expect him to be able to appreciate if I occasionally show the same gesture towards him.

Maybe I’m delusional, thinking we’re all people and individuals and neither men nor women need special treatment in everyday life. I’m not saying you can’t do the whole Lady and Gentleman thing as a novelty, but it is SOOO not necessary.

Not cooking and cleaning, I mean they are stronger when it comes to committing to tasks, to making decisions and sticking to them against all odds

Not this “little lady”, I’m about the most flimsy and indecisive person I’ve ever known of.

Well, as is usually the case, there are always exceptions

Out of curiosity, have you dealt with women as authority figures? (to me it seems you’d have a hard time accepting the well-grounded, committed little flower as such)
apologies if this is getting borderline insulting, but as stated above, it gets my back up when people can’t just accept other people as equals, regardless of gender or any other difference

women are better at giving birth and peeing sitting down. Men are better at peeing standing up. Aside from that, all bets are off. I have had great female employees and bosses and crappy ones. I have also had great male employees and bosses and crappy ones. The difference is attitude not genetalia.

Could not agree more!! (and I have actually tried the standing up thing – not a great success)

I work with women and men all the time. I get along well with all the ones that have a good attitude like playthebanjo says. Don’t worry about being blunt, my skin is thicker than most

If you genuinely agree it’s attitude, not gender-specific disposition, then why would you feel the need to treat women with velvet gloves more than men? It’s not that cute, because there is the underlying tone of you doing because you think the ladies need help, i.e. are less capable.

As far as door holding goes, I will hold the door open for a woman coming in after me and let her go first. I will hold the door for a male coming in after me but will go through first myself. When I lived in Seattle people did not do that and it seemed rude. Here in Georgia it is expected behavior.

For the door-holding, I always hold it for those behind me and will jump ahead to hold the door if it seems I’m in a better position to get the door (the other person is carrying something, on the phone, etc.)

me too. And if they are older too

@wildflower If you think I’m treating women with velvet gloves so is playthebanjo: “As far as door holding goes, I will hold the door open for a woman coming in after me and let her go first. I will hold the door for a male coming in after me but will go through first myself.”

after labor day the gloves are white. LOL

Meh! treat the women in your lives as you wish, I guess I’m personally just always suspicious about a man’s motive if he’s that attentive. The biggest problem may be that other women are not, they just go giggly and flirty…....and that doesn’t help the rest of us to be perceived as equally valuable people.

You have to think of it in terms of societal norms. It’s not that the women here are necessarily giggly and flirty (though some are). It all comes from the same place as other things…like when you make supper everyone fixes their plates first, then you. Or when someone comes over, you offer them something to drink. You cannot question other people’s motivations based on your own belief structure and expect to get an answer other than one based on your own beliefs….you have to ask them about their own motivations to see why they held open the door. “Did you open the door because you perceive me as weak or because you value me as a human being?” “I did it because you were coming in after me…but since you feel the need to ask, feel free and walk back out the door and open it for yourself”. Just accept it for what it is and don’t get too deep about it. You will not be able to change someone’s belief structure…especially if it is a norm that they grew up with. It has nothing do do with being treated as an equal person…at least not in my mind. The behavior may have originated there, but not any longer. Now it is just something you do. Like putting your napkin in your lap and keeping your elbows off the table and removing your hat when you enter a house. I agree that being giggly and flirty does not help the cause of women…but that’s okay, because I tend to not like those types of women. Just like the racist rednecks do not help the cause of the white man in the american south, but there they are and the only thing I can do about them is not act like them and not associate with them. And vote as a liberal.

But don’t be suspicious unless you catch him looking at your breasts while he’s telling you how smart you are.

i am all for feminism, but i think going into such depths about why someone is opening a door for you is taking it too far. If a guy opens and holds a door for me, I smile and say “thank you”. If a girl does the same for me, I smile and say “thank you”. In both cases, we usually don’t end up having a long conversation. Its a moment’s interaction and I believe in being polite if someone does something nice. In the same manner, I have held many doors for guys/girls alike. If you live in an apartment building, you will know there are some people who always hold the elevator for you and some who don’t. If they had the courtesy to hold it for you, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with thanking them. I can’t really giggle even if i wanted to because the action feels fake to me. I just consider it a nice, human act.

But this is just it. Holding the door for someone (non-gender-specific) because you want to be helpful and/or polite is fine.

Defining rules as to how to treat women as opposed to men, in everyday life, is wrong. There is nothing anyone can say or do to change my mind on that point. And this is why (unless I know the person and know their intentions are good) I get chills down my spine when someone says “ladies first”.

Do you have toilet seat rules in your house? Typically the man must always put it down when he finishes peeing instead of the woman putting it up when she finishes. That is certainly a rule based on gender specifics.

Actually we don’t. I clean the thing as often as he does, I’m not afraid of touching the seat to put it down.

You are the rare bird indeed when it comes to the toilet seat rule….maybe that should be my next fluther question. (It’s probably already been asked). All I am saying is this: in philosophical sense, it is a more worthwhile venture to question your own motivations for behaviors than it is to question other people’s.

Growing up, my Mom was always a community leader, really smart and I remember equal rights being stressed. I understand the issues and would not discriminate on anything other than exhibited behaviors. However, there is an interesting dichotomy when the societal norms come into being. It is just something that you do (we do, I do?) without examining why. Perhaps I will practice what I preach and begin to evaluate my own motivations. Maybe I will start not holding the door for people as a sociological experiment. I could count the dirty looks I get from people (male and female) for a week of not holding the door versus the amounts of thank you’s I get from people when I hold the door.

OK, I may have a slight G.I. Jane complex. Bottom line: I’m all for courtesy and politeness, I practice it as much as I can and encourage it in those around me. It’s when you detect a hint of belittling or discrimination it becomes an issue. It is all about the motivation, and as you said, it’s nearly impossible to know, unless you know the person.

I may be the exception, but I would rather have a door slammed in my face than to have it held open for me just because I have boobs and shave my legs.

Congratulations on the 4KLurve, Jane. Tarzan will hold the door open for you regardless of whether you want him to.

Rest assured that when you find yourself in Georgia, I will hold the door open for you even if your legs are hairy. : )

I honestly have no good comeback for that!
I almost don’t feel GA-ing that answer is enough, so here a treat

As a member of the fairer sex…and one in-the-know, it would be of benefit to you to utilize the ‘ladies first’ rule of etiquette.
This is the only way you can guarantee that she won’t push you down the stairs for gawking at her *ass*ets when you ascended.