When will Jesus return?

Happy zombie Jesus day!

My question is how can someone return who’s never been here to start with?

When will Zeus return?

When pigs fly!

@ZEPHYRA
That can not be right, because pigs do fly!

He won’t.
Just imagine that next year a guy makes himself known as being Jesus.
What would the general reception be?
Yeah right, of course you are….., now come on over to us, real calm, and put on this nice white jacket with the long sleeves.

Thanks to the responders who took the opportunity to bash my religion on Easter Sunday.
In your honor, I can’t wait for Disney to start cranking out more Star Wars movies.

In response to the question, I hope not for a long, long time. He won’t be happy, and he will certainly make that known. A good indication that His time is at hand is the destruction of Jerusalem.

In the lifetime of those present to hear him preach when he was still alive. So about 1980 years ago.

He already has. His name is Bahá‘u’lláh and He is the Manifestation of God for our time.

I’m getting old. It’ll be just my luck to be on my way up as he is coming down. (assumptions acknowledged). It’s going to take a really long time for everybody left to pass through the judgment. Then what?

Isn’t there always a large percentage of christians who think that Jesus is coming within their lifetime?

@ETpro wow that is pretty sad. On the positive side though it seems like the creationist camp is slowly dwindling and the evolution one slowly increasing.

I don’t know. I can’t remember who said it. Maybe Martin Luther. Something to the effect of, “Even if I knew Jesus were coming tomorrow I would still plant a tree today.”

…his library books, they’re way overdue.

I wouldn’t blame him if he never comes back.

You might as well say when’s Ragnarök?

Oy!

When Fluther has more faithful jellies than atheists and agnostics.

How are you so certain that he hasn’t returned? Or that He hasn’t given a sign.

But also, just pondering how come people of no or little faith want God to produce something to them for them to believe in Him? Consider this, you have a choice, God does not follow you but you choose to follow God and when you follow Him he reveals himself to you like poisons last answer here about spreading peace and happiness in the community :), These experiences are not always mind blowing. God is not like the mythical unicorn or Zeus He is the creator He made this all from dust. From dust you came and back to dust you go. There is no other earth like this one. The creator allows us to see just enough of his creation without revealing all of his secrets but this information comes with a price. All of this has been taught in the bible. Laugh away if you must, but having a relationship with God is spiritual.

Sorry, I can’t resist. Click here.

I’m on the side of Jesus being ahistorical, so someone who had never been can’t “return” anyway.

@nofurbelowsbatgirl Why do those with little or no faith in Thor want him to produce something for them to believe in Thor? Thor does not follow you, but you choose to follow Thor, and when you follow Thor he reveals himself to you.

@Kropotkin OK.

Well, Happy Easter all. Thanks for the great answers.

@ragingloli When pigs fly. That’s hilarious. And there’s this evidence they do, as well. Pretty obvious to me pigs do fly. Next, we go to work on proof of reindeer flight.

@filmfann The far right in the US, Israel, the Palestinian Territories, Iran, Lebanon and the rest of the Middle East are all hard at work making sure that happens. We just may see if dropping a boatload of nukes in the region brings Jesus back in the clouds. Oh, hope that makes your Easter good for you. :-)

@uberbatman Thanks for noting the bright side of that study.

@nofurbelowsbatgirl Rev. 1:7, “Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him.” I haven’t seen him. That’s how I know.

@Kropotkin Well put.

I’m so proud of myself. I looked it up and my quote above WAS Martin Luther!

@ETpro But how do you specifically know that your eyes are included in those “every eye”. What if that is not what you think it is? Just like Lot’s wife turning into a pillar of salt may not actually mean that “Lot’s wife”: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lot's_wife turned into an actual pillar of salt…but it explains why in a time when they had no scientific way to explain things that the actual formations look like people in the distance.

@nofurbelowsbatgirl The Greek words used for every eye make it abundantly clear that the text is saying all living humanity will instantly know and see. One of my pet peeves with theists is the way they try to weasel out of what the text they claim to believe in actually says. It’s so often the “but how can you know that’s what it means” fallacy.

Look, I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you read is not what I meant. There. Clear now?

That’s foundational bias at work, all right. See the #1 fallacy.

@ETpro LOL. Logical? Who are you to say what is and what is not logical? One of my pet peeves with atheists is when they pull out the logical fallacy card. Unless we are sitting in somewhere not in a public internet setting where we can follow rules of logical argument , then I have every right to be as illogical as I wish.

Btw, here are a couple of bible quotes in response to your earlier bible quote and may explain exactly what I mean:

“Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.” Hebrews 12:14

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. Matthew 5:8

Maybe the fact that you don’t believe in God is why you don’t see him. That is what I am saying.

@nofurbelowsbatgirl Maybe the fact that the Bible so often contradicts itself should tell you it was written by men and not created by the control of an omnipotent, omniscient god.

@ETpro it doesn’t contradict itself. If that’s how you look at it then I am sorry but it is you who doesn’t understand the bible or that God isn’t out for control and power.

Commonly used words with commonly accepted meanings mean something completely different in the bible, dontchaknow? Atheist fools and their logic.

@Kropotkin They mean whatever they need to mean to keep the Christian’s foundational bias intact.

@nofurbelowsbatgirl Maybe the fact you don’t believe in Thor is why you don’t see him (or hear his thunder). Maybe the fact you don’t believe in faeries at the bottom of the garden is why you don’t see them. Maybe the fact you don’t believe in the leprechaun sitting on the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is why you don’t see him. Maybe the fact you don’t believe in the tooth fairy is why the tooth fairy doesn’t visit you at night.

@ETpro I am not a christian.

@Kropotkin Athiest fools and their logic..lol actually I was suggesting that you were being an oxy moron and being illogically logical, because this isn’t really the right forum for being logical if that is what you are looking for I didn’t actually see that as a requirement when answering the specific question.

Afaik when asking a question on the community of jellies we are looking for all types of answers because aren’t we open to all responses? It’s not because we are trying to create the mother of all debates “Jaws” episodes, or am I missing something…if that’s the case then you are missing something.

@nofurbelowsbatgirl You’re doing a great Stephen Colbert impression of one then. How do you self define in religious terms?

Hey. Stephen Colbert IS a Christian. He’s a pretty devout Catholic.

@Judi I’m referring to his ability to channel a far-right conservative Republican in his shtick, not his religious affiliation.

He IS good at that. Love that guy. He’s my kind of Christian.

I’m sure I’ll regret this but I’ll answer anyway.

Christianity is a faith-based religion. Our religion tells us Christ will return someday, and as followers of Christ, we believe that.

For some, it can be a bad thing, wondering if you will survive Judgement and enter Heaven, which to some means you have to be perfectly good all the time, that’s a lot of pressure.

For others, like me, it’s simply something that may happen in my lifetime that I look forward to with pleasure. That means my spiritual body will fly up out of a living human body, and I’ll ascend to Heaven with my Lord. Pretty cool. :)

@ETpro I do not self define as anything. I believe in God and I believe in the bible, I do not trust many people in religion or out of religion today so I choose to worship God in my own way. I had about 6 months of anglican church going as a child and was baptized there other than that I have stepped foot into churches twice in my life since then.
Besides how can you tell my impression is of anything since we are seriously lacking in tonal quality out here and my impression of anything can’t be very good if you have to ask me “How do you self define in religious terms?” :/

@nofurbelowsbatgirl Peace and love.

@KNOWITALL back at ya :x

@KNOWITALL Your answer makes perfect sense. Christ did say in Matthew 24:36, “However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows.” That’s why I’m stunned that so many who profess to follow the Bible think they have a good idea of the end time. And how many preachers have turned into false prophets claiming to have read the signs, or decoded the “Bible code” and predicted the exact day of the end only to gather tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands together, sending them money for “revealing these things”? Harold Camping has done it over an over, and the same lot of dupes have fallen for each failed prediction. It makes you wonder just how credulous these people are.

@nofurbelowsbatgirl If you believe in Yahweh and the Christian Bible, you are a Christian. That’s why you write so much like one. You are one. Perhaps you avoid denominational Christianity. A wise choice on your part. But let’s not play coy. You’re a Christian.

@ETpro now I write like a christian? How can I be christian when I don’t follow it? It makes no sense to me.

I do believe however you need to try to stop segregating me into a “group”. I am not a christian if anything I am anglican. As a matter of fact I personally have struggeled for years with who I am and it only makes me more confused when people say “this is who you are” that is one reason why I don’t conform to anything. I am a freethinker. I believe in life and I support all forms of it but I do not adhere to labels. So I would prefer it if you would’nt label me and just understand and respect that I believe in A GOD who has a story and to you sure my story about Him may have christian elements but that is based on life experiences, but my story also has anglican, catholic, presbyterian, and other religions that are just not coming to my brain right now because I have learned from people not from religion that I have faithfully set out to follow, regardless that maybe God to you or others must be defined by following and or being in a certain religion thus they learn about their religion and go ahead ask me anything about christianity, because I am so christian. I don’t know anything about it other than God’s story. So sorry, but no, I still do not think I am full christian, maybe 5% if that makes you happy to label that.

@ETpro I will agree with you on that. Jack Van Impe does it all the time, my mom made me order her two Prophecy Bibles from him. That was painful to me, but I did it. :) They want to believe it so bad they get excited, that’s my take. And a lot of it is about Israel and current events.

@nofurbelowsbatgirl Other people feel like they need to define or categorize you for their own purposes, that’s on them for taking the easy way out, not learning about you or how you think or what you believe. I actually admire you very much, those little tiny labelled and defined boxes will never define the person I am either, nor my thoughts, or my heart.

@nofurbelowsbatgirl, you said you are a follower of Jesus no? That’s all it is to be a Christian. Anglicans are Christian as are Catholics, Lutherans, Pentecostals, Methodists, ....

@KNOWITALL Thank you for that :)

@Judi Actually, I believe only in God and I only speak to Him. I have learned through other people and their religion and usually this is what they show on television and so on about Jesus and I am not ignorant to most of my own cultures religions and I’d like to expand on that to other worldly religions because it interests me. But that is for another time. I myself do believe we have a creator and I do call him my God. As I stated I may come from an aglican background 6 months or so but basically I am being labelled here because I believe in God or a creator. If I had a religion or was christian I would say so.

Btw, I have been seriously thinking for some time now to move back to my family’s european roots and into and near Rome and become an honest to goodness roman catholic if that helps you any.

@nofurbelowsbatgirl Labels aren’t all that easy to escape. You can’t do it by simply declaring they don’t apply to you while proving by your actions that they do. I don’t have a religion, but the label of atheist (or to be quite accurate, agnostic atheist) fits me.

If you believe in a creator God but not in Jesus as The Christ or in any particular God of one of the world’s major religions, then you are a Deist. But you can’t seriously be a Roman Catholic true to that church’s epistemology and deny the divinity of Christ. No real Deist would be considering such a affirmation and still identify themselves as a Deist.

The fact you shun labels and refuse to self identify doesn’t mean that no label applies to you. It just indicates that you choose for some reason to deny that you are what you act like. But actions speak louder than words.

@ETpro Yes while it is true that a deist rejects all form of religion which I think is what you are saying what I am doing therefore you are trying to now slap this label on me I understand but you have to acknowledge also that deists also reject other things which I do regularly so I don’t know that I’d be so quick to jump on that boat.

Deists believe that God existed created the earth and then once that was done he disappeared having no further interaction with us or the universe. So therefore when I say “I believe only in God and I only speak to Him.” Well if I was a true deist I wouldn’t be speaking to Him at all. Also if I am a deist that would mean I have not taken any teachings from any religion which I have already said: “I believe in A GOD who has a story and to you sure my story about Him may have christian elements but that is based on life experiences, but my story also has anglican, catholic, presbyterian, and other religions that are just not coming to my brain right now because I have learned from people not from religion that I have faithfully set out to follow.” I should of said I have learned from religious people.

So this is why I call myself a freethinker. I even have aspects of native american beliefs that I hold, but as I said I am thinking of conforming and “choosing” a label because being a freethinker, well obviously many people, not just here but in my real life, try to label me anyway.

If I am mysteriously gone one day then I am going back to my european roots and my family to learn roman catholicism, then we can debate whether or not that is christian. :/

@nofurbelowsbatgirl Call yourself whatever you like. I will relate to you in debates based on how you behave. Given the above, I agree you probably don’t fit the label of Deist. I believe I said that in the post above. But surely you know that Anglican, Catholic, and Presbyterian are all various Christian denominations. If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and pretty much cites duck subspecies in describing itself, there is a pretty good chance you’re dealing with a duck.

@ETpro I really don’t understand why you have to label me, that’s all. But ok if you want a duck I’m sorry your going to have to go hunting and unfortunately you have just crossed my personal “no hunting allowed, VEGANS RULE HERE” law. :)

@nofurbelowsbatgirl It’s possible to find a duck without any intention of killing it. It’s even possible to nurture and protect the duck. Maybe even get that duck a job making commercials for Aflac®.

@ETpro She’s just saying ‘why label me at all’? She is evolving, seeking, growing like the rest of us. Sometimes I think you purposely antagonize people who don’t agree with you

Ducks are fatty, and too much work. :)

@KNOWITALL How is it that disagreeing with you in a debate is purposely antagonizing you, but your disagreeing with others in that same debate is perfectly OK, only to be expected, since they are obviously wrong and no evidence needs to be provided regarding their error?

Here’s Richard Dawkins doing a far better job than I might do at telling why I am out as an atheist.

Just being mean here but to me Christians are like kids in the back seat during a long car ride:
“Is he there yet? Is he there yet?”

Don’t make me pull this world over!

@ETpro Did I say me? I do think it’s true because you make untrue statements, assumptions and generalizations as I’ve mentioned to you repeatedly.

It makes me uncomfortable to see you antagonizing a person who is truly seeking spiritual answers.

@KNOWITALL Sadly, all your arguments to the effect that I am making “untrue statements, assumptions and generalizations” have relied on the logical fallacy, argument by assertion. I am not the only person here who has pointed this out to you. A number of other jellies well schooled in epistemology, logic and argumentation have noted that same error. But you ignore all such critiques of the arguments you present, and simply continue to insist that those who disagree with you are wrong because you told them they were wrong. I may have missed some instance when you presented a validly constructed rebuttal, but I am not aware of such. If I have, please post a link to my oversight. I do not wish to continue in an error of reasoning.

As a social Q&A site, debate is much of what Fluther is all about. I’m truly not here to antagonize anyone, but I do enjoy debate and I learn from it. I win more in losing a debate than I do in always insisting I am right. Anyone truly seeking spiritual answers is wise to be open to debate, and open to being shown an error in their assumptions. Any less, and all you will likely draw from your quest for answers will be based solely on confirmation bias.

That said, anyone who finds debating with me makes them uncomfortable is welcome to not engage me in debate.

@ETpro Awww, and you’re using the old “it’s not me, it’s you” tactic to make yourself feel better about unsolicited personal attacks on other jellies with no provocation. Maybe we should both just take note and work to improve our discourse skills.

Any time a liberal atheist and a Christian Republican get on the same site, there’s sure to be differences of opinion. ;)

@KNOWITALL What about a Christian Liberal and a Republican Atheist on the same site? Will they generate fireworks?

@ETpro I believe in this animal equality. I don’t like that commercial one bit.

I do have 2 dogs but they were not my but my husbands choice and because of circumstances I now have them because I believe I am the only one who can treat them fairly, but I will never own a dog by my own choice. I also have a cat that was given to me, because for goodness sakes I can be like the local no kill animal shelter :/. It’s a Siamese cat too that is 18 now, living the life and the people who gave her too me were going to give her to a local kill shelter when she was 5 because she meowed too much. She still meows…and it is loud…but it’s because she wants to be cuddled! awe

Anyway that is neither here nor there. I actually do not think that fluther is a “debate” site. I think it is what it states it is which is a Q&A site. And sure sometimes debates can come of that but not even everyone knows how to debate properly. If you are looking for a proper debate you would be better off looking for it here.

@KNOWITALL :)

@KNOWITALL I promise to work at being patient, reading fully what you have to say, and doing my best to be clear in my responses. I actually enjoy your input, and will do my best not to discourage same.

@nofurbelowsbatgirl I’ve struggled back and forth with the idea of veganism. I too have a cat. While dogs can live for a decent while eating a high protein vegetable diet, cats cannot. They have to eat meat to live, because their digestive systems can’t break down and use the protein available in vegetable sources. There are many other species in the same dietary trap. Since nature designed some species including humans to be omnivores, some to be exclusive carnivores and others to be strict herbivores, I have decided who am I to question that plan.

The last thing I am anxious to do with the limited time I have available is sign up for some other social media site that will sap hours of my time. I’ve been here long enough I think I have a firm grasp of what Fluther.com is and is not.

@ETpro :) Thanks for the apology here.

I understand what you are talking about, I was on fluther for quite awhile and I was one of the ones who closed my account. But I am back now.

Becoming a vegan is like quitting smoking, that’s the only way I can put it. At first it feels like there is nothing you can eat and all you can think about is the food you can’t have, but then you tell yourself why you can’t have it and talk yourself out of it if it means something to you. Then you find recipes and maybe a specialty store in your city and your golden.

My cat eats a regular diet while my dogs are vegans. It’s funny you mention that, I tried the cat on a vegan catfood diet for awhile but she kept getting sick from hairballs, I realized she does much better on the hairball formula catfood, it is what it is, I mean anything is better than her dead in a unfamiliar place, that is all I’ve got to say.

You know I swear if you met me you would completely change your mind about this “christian” soul, well what I think is wayward christian lol

I think you would see that while maybe I was raised for a few months as an anglican/christian, I am really a freethinker and while I may spread the word of God (and I do read a christian bible that I know and becsuse its the only bible I have, but I don’t get religious about it unless I come across a question where I am always honest) so I actually think I would surprise you with my faux hawk shaved head and my replica flaming skull guitar tattoo and the fact that I play awesome electric guitar enough that my husband and I (before he passed) he was the drummer & we were starting a band, hence that tattoo which also has drums and my husbands name and dates. My guitar playing is inspired by my favorite bands with songs that include HellRider, Demonizer, Number of the Beast, Mr. Crowley , Heaven and Hell , Holy Wars, are just to name a few and I have seen these all live..awesome! I definitely do not conform to the norm, but yes I do believe in God now and I was also a non believer at one time and I am now thinking about conforming.

@ETpro Peace. :)

@nofurbelowsbatgirl Surprise me you would. You do sound as if labels are tough to apply to you, I share that trait, though few here believe it. If ever the time came to meet and talk, I’d be honored to do so.

@KNOWITALL And the same to you.

@ETpro :) thank you for that. That means a lot to me. I would also feel the same about you. I think the we have one commonality and forgive me if I am wrong but I believe we both are stubborn. ;)

@nofurbelowsbatgirl Nolo contendre.

The question and its answer have meaning only within and to the community of the faithful, in Nicene terms, “One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church” within the context of the third article of that creedal statement. The short answer is when the Gospel of Jesus Christ has been preached to everyone. NB, preached, not believed. The immanence comes from two primary sources. There can be two because each is from a different tradition. At the end of St. Matthew’s Gospel he writes, “And lo, I am with you until the close of the age.” This is immanense for the Church. There is another tradition in St.John 1:51, “you will see heaven opened, and the angels (messengers) of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.” This follows on the statement in verse 50 that “you shall see greater things than these.” This convinces none but the Faithful, if even them. The immanence is in our midst. Taken together this gives a “worldview” that while not systematic, it “hangs together.” The Gospel continues to be preached. The message is to the unrepentant and those who have never heard. The Church tarries for no one knows the time, not even the Son of Man. It is enough for us to worship God until then. There is so much more to be said, but this is as short a response as I can give.

Thulenord Welcome to Fluther.

Were the early Christians who looked fervently for the return of Jesus before there even was a First Nicene Council just ignorant of the facts then? How do you know what age “close of the age” refers to. You seem confident that the time is close at hand, even though equally studied Christian theologians have be equally confident now for over 2,000 years, and each generation has been wrong. That’s a very long string of failures on which to base such confidence.

Christianity is something to be lived, daily. It is pointless to wait around for the end of all things. The time is close not just for all those Christians for the last 2000 years, but all those back to the beginning and yet to come, and for all nature itself. I am mindful that the life of the proton is estimated to be on the order of 30 billion years. So, at 13.7 (?) we are still a “forever” away from half life. Does that matter? Should it? Maybe only if I don’t want to stick around so long, or I want to see some God-stuff happen. There again, God-stuff happens daily. The egregiously wrong were the “false prophets” more so than the level headed theologians. Among the former, Tertullian, Joachim of Floris, to provide only two types of heterodoxy. Pity the Jews who have waited at least 2000 years longer. And at far greater cost. Such is the human scale we measure in. My emphasis is on preaching the Gospel. That is what is commanded of us. Not to do so would be dead faith, and then would any of it matter? Creator of heaven and earth and all things visible and invisible is not in my portfolio. The best I can do is worship a living God, and study (<L, to have zeal for) Him with all my mind and body and soul. One last thought. Christians are in the business of two things which coalesce. Truth claims, and salvation. Budhists want oblivion to end suffering. God alone knows what Mohammedans want. Socialists want heaven on earth (see Joachim,) Gnostics are mythologyzing basket cases, and I think the typical unchurched American just wants to be left alone. I hope you don’t mind the longish replies. I can’t be glib about this with one-liners, and I want to remain on topic. Your question is important and deserves a thoughtful, studied answer. I expect I shall go to my grave not fully knowing, but satisfied I gave God some pleasure with my efforts.

@Thulenord Interesting. I’m hopeful but I’m not holding my breath. :) Welcome.

After thousands of years of “the signs” I have doubts it’ll happen. Read the signs of his coming back in the Bible and ask yourself, “have these been going on since the year one? I think many people believe if they don’t think he’s coming back they’ll end up in Hell so they’ve decided to believe it. Not sure how much sincerity is in that process.

Jesus Christ never actually existed, so he cannot return, when he never was here. His imminent return has been predicted since the invention of the hateful religion based upon quite miserably poor fiction about him, and believers continue to predict his imminent return. Some people never learn. matthew said Jesus would return while some of his Apostles still lived. That is extremely absurd. Blind belief in Jesus and his imminent return is about as absurd as blindly believing in Global warming.

Saturday, about 2:23 pm. Be prepared.