Does my being a vocal Christian make me unworthy to participate on this site?

I was only angry when you refused to equate the Holocaust with Nazism, and then compounded the problem that instead of admitting your mistake you wrote an ad hominem attack. It had nothing to do with your religion.

@Rarebear Wasn’t you I was referencing, I think we resolved the issue like adults.

You are a minority (then again, we all are) but I hope that you will not let that cause you to leave.

Certainly not. You’re a model of restraint. I forbid you to leave

Of course not, and I’ve never seen anyone imply that you are unworthy to participate. It’s a free site. Anyone can join.

No, we all discuss our beliefs or lack of them here. That’s what makes this site interesting. I’ve never found anything the least bit offensive about anything you have said.

Not at all.

The simple answer to your question is no, being a vocal Christian does not make you unworthy of being on this site. There is, however a more complex answer.

First and foremost, here on Fluther you will always, always be asked to back up your claims. Be prepared to have your beliefs challenged and to explain clearly and concisely why you believe what you believe.

You can also always expect to be in the minority. I believe the reality of the demographics of this site are that there are more atheists then theists who participate.

I don’t find that it does any good to play the “I am being persecuted for my beliefs” card. I think most see that as a cop out and and unwillingness to back up your statements. I have been challenged over and over because I am fairly out there with what I believe, and rather than complain (much), I try to state my case in a reasonable respectful manner. So unless you are prepared to stick with an argument, stay out of religious threads.

Now, you will be attacked personally, you can count on that. I have been called ignorant, uninformed, stupid. Mostly by people who have since been shown the door. It is going to happen and it is important to remember that this is the internet and most of the time it is not worth taking personally.

Finally, if you are going to quote the Bible here on Fluther it is essential that you know your stuff. There are a couple of jellies that can seriously be considered biblical scholars (I don’t think that is an exaggeration), and they will never let a person off the hook for misquoting the Bible.

I have found that sharing my faith on Fluther has been a great way to learn more about it, delve deeper into the writings of my faith, and solidify my beliefs.

Edit: Also, I can honestly say that I have the utmost respect for almost every single person who has ever challenged me about what I believe here on Fluther. Most do it in a respectful way without attacking me personally. Some of my favorite jellies are ones I have gone round with in religious threads.

Don’t worry about it.

I, too, seem to offend just about everybody on this site

And, interestingly enough, I am atheist, I believe in freedom of choice, legalized gay unions, the abolishment of capital punishment, amnesty for currently law abiding illegal aliens, and I would like to see the US limit it’s military adventures to areas that truly engage the national security interest.

I do not care what faith you choose to embrace.

I certainly have a complaint with people who want to take their faith to Washington DC and make it the basis for the law of the land.

But interestingly, many of the non believers on this site want to take their latent guilt or their sense of personal uselessness or helplessness to Washington to DC and make it the law of the land as well.

So as far as I can see, in the competition for hiring government thugs to do our bidding, it is pretty much a tie ballgame between the faithful, and the statists.

I do not get the idea that you are a political ideologue. If you want to go to church, pray and commune with your congregational brothers and sisters, that is your right and I have no problem with that.

And others should not either, assuming you keep it at home.

So, don’t worry about it.

Plus, it is after all only a Q and A site.

@SuperMouse Yes, I’ve seen that and will work on it, it’s hard when you’re working to research everything fully though.

As you say, fluther is not a Christian site, and I get that, and try to restrict myself as much as possible and don’t follow questions about religion when they degenerate, I walk away. Believe it or not, some atheists are curious, and I’m curious about them but the most important thing to me is that I’m not doing my God a disservice here or anywhere else.

You stated your beliefs, and most of them if not all, I am in agreement with, so except for my belief in God, we probably aren’t that different in all reality. That is why I am so taken aback by the nastiness at times.

I’ve also stated multiple times that I have lost much of my faith in organized religion and no longer attend church because of specific personal occurances. I even have a cocktail at times, I’m not perfect and never claimed to be. I do have some insight to share on the religious conservative mindset since I grew up with it and rejected a lot of it.

@KNOWITALL I want to be perfectly clear, I believe in God. I just do not believe that the only way to get to heaven is to accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I do believe that Christ is a manifestation of God, just not that He is the only manifestation or that He is the manifestation for our time. But that is for a different discussion

I admit that I am just as vocal as the atheists on this site about pointing out things that make no sense to me. When I disagree I come right out and say it and when a person professes to believe certain things I will call that person out for incongruencies between what they claim to believe and how they come across, maybe not always in a way they prefer.

No, of course you are not unworthy to participate. Speaking for myself, I like you as a jelly (ok, I like most people as jellies, but still). You have a unique perspective, as do we all, and your contributions are sometimes very insightful, and sometimes you make me laugh.

I have noticed that you tend to take opposing viewpoints as personal criticism, and I think that you might enjoy the sparring more if you could remove the assumption that “S/he’s saying that because I’m a vocal Christian”, and just argue the facts from your point of view. I think sometimes people forget how much of a Christian’s speech can be motivated by religious feeling, or perhaps more that both spring from the same well, and so challenging an idea feels synonymous with challenging a faith or a person. But from the perspective of a non-religious person, an idea is just an idea. It doesn’t deserve any special reverence – the person deserves the respect, not the idea. So, it isn’t personal.

And, yeah, sometimes people do get snarky, as we’ve all seen. But I think we’ve all felt the sharp end of that from time to time. I have, quite a lot, actually. Just on different topics.

Anyway, those are my thoughts – perhaps they’ll change six times before Tuesday, but it’s what I’m thinking today. ;)

Stick around.

I have definitely seen posts specifically attacking Catholicism. It’s pretty inappropriate and I do get a bit offended by it . Although I am not Catholic, I still respect it as a religion since it has a good basic set of morals and beliefs. To bash on Catholicism or any religion is immature. I have noticed that people truly think of certain issues in totally different ways, like not seeing eye-to-eye, and there is absolutely nothing we can do to influence anybody. As far as my religion goes, I am a bit unsure but leaning toward Agnosticism.

@SuperMouse “if you are going to quote the Bible here on Fluther it is essential that you know your stuff. There are a couple of jellies that can seriously be considered biblical scholars”

Yes, and some of them are atheists!

Nope. I have no issues with you, and I’m an agnostic.

@glacial I know, that’s what makes it so awesome! I know we aren’t supposed to name names (mod me if you must), but a certain jelly whose initials are S.K. never ceases to amaze me with her knowledge of the Bible.

@SuperMouse Yes, absolutely – and a couple who I don’t see here lately, which is unfortunate.

@KNOWITALL I should also point out that I do not believe that the Bible is the literal or figurative word of God. The Bible was written by men, men with an agenda, and as far as I am concerned it is essential to keep that in mind when we are dealing with all things religion.

Also, I think @josie makes some brilliant points in his quip and all are worth serious consideration.

@glacial @dxs Trust me on this, there are people in my life who are Buddist, I’ve hung out with Wiccans and all kinds, and it never was a problem in our friendships even if we believed differently. I’ve done plenty of seeking most of my adult life, and we are all in different stages of our journey to the truth. I won’t get into any actual religious issues here, but I appreciate the sharing very much.

SK is a very interesting person, how can you not like a Trekkie?!

@KNOWITALL Yeah, but a discussion of opposing viewpoints is always going to cut a little more sharply on the internet. None of us can see each other, and that distance lets us go farther than we should, sometimes. It just means we need to work harder to imagine a real person sitting behind the keyboard when “crafting a response”. I think the community here does a better job at keeping the peace than a lot of other sites.

@KNOWITALL the thing is though, you can’t say you appreciate the sharing and put yourself out there for the discussion, then feel persecuted when people disagree with you. If someone is asking a legitimate question about something you have professed to believe, it is worth your time to answer that question.

I say it is worth your time because if you are truly a person of faith, you should relish the opportunity to share what you believe and why. I am a firm believer that a faith not fully examined and not questioned and evaluated is not a true faith, it is just spouting what someone else has filled your head with. For anyone’s faith to be genuine it must be seen through our “own eyes and not through the eyes of others.”* That’s why I say that the religious questions on this site have helped deepen my spirituality, because if I can answer the questions posed to me in a way that makes sense then I am on my way to more fully solidifying my own beliefs.

*Baha’u’llah

Nope. You are more than welcome here! I can’t say anything better than @SuperMouse has said, so I’ll just leave it at, “I hope you stick around.”

@supermouse Most people in my area are Christians, and have been since birth, so I never had to think through things like I do here with ya’ll. People in my small town are either ‘good’ or ‘bad’, you go to church or you don’t, you hang out at the Mason’s Lodge or at the bar or at church.

Maybe it’s lame, but this could be the best site I’ve ever been on for my personal growth, so I hope you’ll excuse some of my foibles and give me a little time to wrap my head around some things I’m being exposed to for the first time. This kind of exposure to ideas different from mine is truly priceless and I mean that sincerely.

I’ve talked to my friends and family members about this site as well, telling them things that have been said and they are as equally amazed as I, especially my mother who is nearing Saint status in her dotage- lol

@KNOWITALL Not at all. Our viewpoints don’t match but wow I learn so much from you. I’m surprised at how strong and tough you are and how you stand up for your views. But that doesn’t really seem out of character for you. I thought the first few times someone went after your views you would leave here. I’m really glad you stayed. You’re very valued as a jelly in my book.

I am vocal about my faith too and had a few battles when I first got here. Once people realized that I respected them and had no intention of trying to convert them I think I gained some respect.
My favorite was a time that a newbie tried to go off on me about my faith and a bunch of atheists came to my defense.
People here are fair and if you treat others with the same humility that Jesus treated people with then eventually the majority of people here will respect you even if they disagree with you.

@KNOWITALL I think you have hit upon the perfect reason to stick around!

Try your best to be patient with the questions and not take them personally. Remember these people are not trying to hurt you or put you down, the simply believe differently from you and want to understand why you believe what you do. With a little searching and the right information you will be able to articulate why you hold these beliefs. If you aren’t able to come up with a brilliant retort every time that is ok too, it is an opportunity for you to learn more and deepen your own faith. No one says you have to defend all of Christianity. Try to take what other people’s opinions in stride and not as a personal affront.

@Adirondackwannabe People like you and others who have left, really made me feel welcome, and I appreciate that. I have a horrible temper which probably doesn’t help my ‘debates’ – lol

@SuperMouse See, I think you’ve actually hit on my main problem today, I feel sometimes that I’m like a poster child for religion/ christianity and I feel very inadequate to that large of a task with all you smart and articulate people. Who am I, the girl who doesn’t even go to church, but when I kept reading God’s a fairytale and Christians are stupid, how can I be silent?

Most of you know I have a lot going on in my personal life with my mom and my husband, which is one reason I cling to fluther and the community for a mental outlet. I will make a concentrated effort not to allow my stress to interfere with my fluther experience in future.

@KNOWITALL you don’t need to worry about being the spokesperson for God, I think He can have that covered if He feels the need. In the meantime, just worry about being the spokesperson for @KNOWITALL.

@SuperMouse You’re right, I’ll release that to Him now and let that weight fall away. Thank you!!

@KNOWITALL I thought you showed restraint in responding to some of the jellies. It’s easy to be nasty to someone setting at a computer. It takes a person with class to not go to their level. Thumbs up to you.

@Adirondackwannabe I even said shat and arse both here today, I got so upset- lol

You know, after reading some of these, I know I’m sensitive, and I cry with strangers at the cancer ward and read obituaries and get upset for the families of strangers, even my husband makes fun of me sometimes. I need to toughen up I guess if I’m going to play with the big boys and girls. It’s a big old world and I haven’t got a lot of experience with it, that’s on me.

^^ Then this is the exact reason for you to stick with Fluther. There are people from very disparate backgrounds, and people who have very different ideas about religion and philosophy and politics and to whether dark chocolate is better than milk chocolate, and we all like to discuss it all, and part of the discussion always involves asking the big WHY. If we only said I think/believe this or that, without explaining why, then it’s not a discussion, it’s a statement.

Don’t be angered or hurt if any of us asks you why. Knowing the why, is the only way any of us can learn anything (or maybe come to a conclusion based on better or more accurate information).

It’s just like with another question that I saw yesterday that somebody was wondering why it mattered why the bomb setters in Boston did what they did. It matters for the simple idea that with more and accurate information we can possibly prevent another situation like that from happening. It doesn’t matter why the person did it with regards to that person, himself, no one cares, but it does matter to us as a society, because we make laws and go through training and create procedures and make preventative plans when we have as much information as we can get, and knowing the why’s of things gives us more information. As an information seeker, you and I and everyone else should always ask why. Especially when something doesn’t seem to make sense.

Stick around, maybe you’ll realize why you came here in the first place : )

@KNOWITALL Your own personal religion or views should not make you unwelcome. You have the right to view the world and universe anyway you want.

@KNOWITALL That I have to go see. I haven’t been on much, I missed those. :)

@Adirondackwannabe I am glad you’re back, you were missed.

I was going to answer this with, “It has never stopped @Judi from sharing her views”. Then I read @Judi‘s post up above and decided to change it to, ”@Judi . . . nice”.

@KNOWITALL Thank you. I just realized something ironic. A bunch of the jellies I consider close friends are theists. I’m not. But we respect each other’s views completely. I sometimes put my foot in my mouth, but it’s not out of disrespect. (I couldn’t find where you semi-swore. Was it in PM’s?).

@judi Actually I meant to reply earlier, there was a lot of the ‘conversion’ posts to me, too, that almost scared me off at first. I promised I would never try to do that, as it happened to me growing up, forcefully by my uncle Dave. He’s a fine example of Christianity gone awry though I love him still.

You really are good, how do you do it without getting angry at the way some people talk about God sometimes here?

@Adirondackwannabe Oh probably so actually, that’s where I receive ‘constructive’ criticism the most- lol

We all put our foots in our mouths at time, I did today with @Rarebear and it wasn’t cool. He or she is very respectful and forthright, like us old hillbillies, so it worked out.

I enjoy having lots of different types of fish swimming in our ocean.

You are most welcome as far as I’m concerned. You think. You’re not stupid. You’re still willing to grow in experience. If we had to register for acceptance here, you’d make it with an A+ rating.

Perhaps we should have a rule about not calling people names. That could make disagreements more civilized.

@KNOWITALL, I don’t get angry because I get it. If all you know of Christianity is loony fundamentalists who seem to be everything Jesus is not then you get pretty fed up. I get just as angry when it seems people are misrepresenting my God.
I feel like Christians should be held to a higher standard then I sometimes wonder if I’m being judgmental of judgmental Christians for being judgmental.
I don’t expect non Christians to act like Christians and I just accept them for who they am where they are.
Bottom line is that this community has made me think and made my faith grow.

@judi LOL, I totally get the judgementals as well, it’s so easy to do though!!

I feel like Christians should be held to a higher standard as well, but what is that, we’re still fallible humans with weaknesses and faults. Jesus said he came for the sinners after all, not that holiness and saintliness is not our end goal and something to strive for daily.

Making sure I was exposed to all faiths was a big deal to my hippie mom, and not just beliefs about religion but about personal choice, drug use for experimentation, sex and love and gender, all of it. For many years she taught me about loving people in general for who and what they are, not what we want them to be, and in my SSM views it helps me overcome the biblical stigma against the LGBT’s and many other adult issues. It all comes back to love for me.

Bottom line for me, before I sign off and give hubby and the tornado some attention, is that as long as I feel I’m still learning and growing, I’ll just ask each of you to help me as you have been, to be my authentic self. I will do the same and if I feel I’m over my head or the Irish/ Indian temper is rising, I’ll back off and lurk lol Peace out, ya’ll.

I’m talking about the Christians who go after non Christians for their “immoral choices” when it appears to me that they might look in the mirror and see judgement, selfishness, gluttony, greed, and a host of other sins. They need to take the log out of their own eye before they take the speck out of their brothers, and even then, they shouldn’t hold non Christians to their moral code.

@Judi Ah yes, that’s very true. I hang out with a lot of different types working in crazy media world, and a lot of my friends are not christians, but for me, I don’t say anything unless they ask, and believe it or not a lot of them do because they know me and my limits.

I even joke around and tease them about their choices sometimes, but it’s all in fun and love, it helps keep the doors of communication open by being casual about it.

I just need to translate that to my fluther self I guess and think of you all as friends not adversaries, regardless of content. I have a lot of specks, no doubt about that. Sweet dreams!!

Haven’t seen the flame wars you are referring to, but I sure appreciate your presence here, @KNOWITALL.

Think of it this way. It’s not your job to change anyone’s heart. That’s Gods job. Our job is just to be a light in the world.

Absolutely not. I can’t even understand why unworthy would enter your mind. I have asked many many question about Christianity and am very glad Christians have been here to answer. I wish we had more Muslims, so we could get more of that perspective and more understanding of the religious teachings and practices.

@SuperMouse Gave a great answer.

I think some Christians are not used to intense debate in general, unless they are in a field like being a lawyer or a scientist. So, questions feel like an attack, rather than a search for knowledge. I might be overgeneralizing. On the other hand most Jews grow up with constant questioning. It’s a cultural thing. Remember Zensky’s Q about Jewish question time. Let’s answer a question with a question. I guess atheists who were rasied as theists also went through some intensive questioning of their faith, so they are inclined to be debaters also I guess. Some of the most hard core, bible knowledge, not happy with religion, Jellies were raised in very religious homes and they come out with force on religious questions sometimes and probably can be the most challenging to some of our Christian Jellies. But, I would bet Jellies like Judi and Filmfann and some others are almost never bothered by those jellies, because we know Jellies like Judi and Filmfann have respect and acceptance for all people and we never feel like they are trying to push their view, they are just stating their view.

Well, there was that one Jelly who was an evangelical atheist….

Pshht, no, of course not. @SuperMouse gave a wonderfully great answer. All I can add is….please stick around, you are a great contribution to Fluther. It’s extremely important to have a diverse group of people on a site like this.

@Judi Which one? I guess there is actually probably more than one who has been here. Are we not supposed to name names?

The Q one.

@Judi I never think of him as evangelizing, but I can see why some people might. He is rather intolerant of religion, but I love when he is on a Q. His banter cracks me up! But, I ususally am not the target of his comments, but I have been here and there. He has great knowledge of the bible. I thought he was raised religiously? I could be wrong. I don’t think his parents were Orthodox though, but I could be wrong about that too. For sure I know he was raised Jewish.

Only an asshole would try to make you feel unworthy. Fuck them.

(I didn’t read previous responses. This is my first initial reaction to the q)

Oh. My. Fuckin’ Gawd. If you’re itty-bitty feelings keep getting hurt then by all means leave. If you believe in who you are and what you stand for, you shouldn’t need so much validation. Stay. Don’t stay. It’s getting boring.

Frankly, all this vainglorious posting is beginning to seem more like attention-seeking behavior than a legitimate concern.

@KNOWITALL Just avoid the people who you know will cause problems. As I said before, there is absolutely nothing we can do to influence them, so don’t waste your time and energy.

@tinyfaery is harsh but I learned more from her here than anyone. She pissed me off once when she called me out but that encounter ended up being a key part in a major paradigm shift for me.

Aw, shucks.

I hope that none of us feel like we must be in the majority, or in a echo chamber, and that failing that we must leave. This site is wonderful because of it’s lively debates as well as the fact that you can get answers to mundane questions like how to make plum wine. I sincerely hope that rather than leave, you encourage other theists to join and take part in open debate about theology and eschatology.

@ETpro, are you talking about pruno? ~

Listen to @dxs, If you don’t, you are just asking for trouble. :)

Not at all.

It does make you pretty annoying, though, to be honest.

You just have to learn how to tread the fluther fine line to survive. Then you will be safe.

@rooeytoo Pruno is definitely the porno of oenology. No, I was referring to this question I asked some time back

@Judi & @JLeslie Yes, Q is one whose contributions I miss.

I agree with @tinyfaery I’m afraid. No, of course you’re not unworthy to participate; I enjoy a lot of your contributions. I’m a liberal gay atheist and even I get sick of the homogeneity on this site and it’s nice to see someone with a different perspective every now and then. That said, these kinds of posts and all this talk about how you don’t belong and people hate you for being Christian does get a little old.

I am agnostic. My biggest problem with religion is that I don’t want to believe. I want to know.
I will respect any religion you choose to practice, so long as you never knock on my door to tell me about it.

Hey! Why are you afraid of agreeing with me?

No

@ETpro – I said tread the fine “line” not wine!!! (or whine, @KNOWITALL, I have twice been called a whiner or accused of being same, which really pisses me off. I am, if anything a bitcher, but never a whiner. Point being, we are all attacked at one time or another. No I am wrong, being called a whiner was not considered an attack so it remains for posterity despite my repeated flagging! That is what I mean by the Fluther fine line. You have to study to figure out which side of it is safe!)

I would/could never judge another jelly “unworthy” of participating here. However, I choose to discuss, debate or merely comment on her/his assertions, opinions, views and beliefs only when my open-mindedness and respect are returned.

Yes, I have on occasion made a snarky or less-than-respectful retort to a comment on a topic that pushes a button. But I really try to avoid doing that. Dogflights are for canines, not pachyderms.

@Pachyderm_In_The_Room – is this what you mean by “Dogflights”

@glacial @Judi Is he gone? Gone for good? I can’t handle it. Q, PDW, Wu, whose next?

LOL, @rooeytoo. You read my mind.

Who the hell is Q????? I can’t remember anyone named Q. And PDW??? I know Wu.

Qingu and Pdworkin. They can mod it if we can’t say. I don’t see why it is a bad thing to say it. I have no idea if they were banned.

Wow, we are really going back now, they were both a long time ago!

@KNOWITALL
Nope… Being an outspoken Christian makes you more interesting.

The Christians that see anybody dismissing their vocalized belief as personal attackers are quite frustrating, though, I feel. One should be willing and prepared to defend one’s statements if these are made made in public.

The problem I quite often see is ‘hardcore’ (?) Christians and Atheists discussing on different levels with each other. The one perceives to have logic on their side and the other beliefs that logic to be false or not applicable. This leads to fruitless debates. Once you get caught in one of these, just get out before it turns nasty.

I know I snarled at you on occasion – and I’m sorry if I hurt you in that. I truly am. It was however never because you are / were speaking out your Christain beliefs. It always was because I felt that you were using wrong argumentations and / or claiming a moral superiority over someone else’s position that I found unwarranted.

That said… I hope you enjoy yourself here as well. An occasional bit of friction may hone you. As long as it isn’t the overtone.

I just looked up Qingu, he is still here. You people are freaking me out. He answered a Q a day ago.

Thank goodness.

@KNOWITALL: “Does my being a vocal Christian make me unworthy to participate on this site?”

No! What? Your perspective is invaluable, and your responses are thoughtful and seem honest.

@KNOWITALL: “I feel like a minority here, and that’s okay, but I want to know if I’ve offended people by talking about religion.”

Yes, I’m the “being offended has no place in a world of 7 billion people” guy. So, my response to this is – if you are honest with your answers, you shouldn’t give a sh*t about offending anyone. Those are your beliefs, and we’re all adults here who can handle adult conversations about complex things such as beliefs.

@KNOWITALL: “Sometimes, like today, the attacks get pretty personal and seem very angry.”

I didn’t see the attacks. But I would caution you that what might feel like an attack often isnt’t. Remember that we’re discussing ideas here. So, if you place an idea out there in public (especially on a site designed to dissect ideas, like fluther), it might be easier to see that there is a difference between people “attacking” the idea and attacking you.

One of the big challenges many non-believers have been concerned about for many years has been the double-standard that we hold about religious belief. That is, we can question the validity of statements made about politics, economic theory, morality, etc. But when it comes to religion, it’s off limits. But since these religious beliefs when made in public are in fact statements about the nature of reality, and they inform our actions, many people (rightfully, in my opinion) feel that there is no valid justification for keeping religious ideas in the immunity bubble it has enjoyed for so long.

So, back to why it may feel like an attack. You may not be used to it. And since you identify so deeply with your beliefs, it might feel that an attack on the belief is an attack on you – which it’s not.

@KNOWITALL: “I need to know if it’s just a few unhappy angry people, or if it’s the whole community. If you truly feel I’ve been condescending or anything, I need to know so I can learn from that and change in future. Constructive criticism please.”

You seem like a great person, and I’m sure we have a lot more in common than either of us think. I might be openly critical of a particular belief you have, but I in no way mean this as an attack on you. But as for constructive criticism – if you find that a belief of yours has found itself out there on fluther in a little boxing ring of ideas, don’t see yourself in that ring. Your ideas, if they are strong, can withstand a beating. And if you don’t see yourself as merely a manifestation of that idea, you might find that you’re not the one out there in the ring.
Keep bringing your unique perspective to fluther. I appreciate it.

@JLeslie No, still here and occasionally active.

There are many Christians on this site, including me. There are also a lot of Atheists, so expect some head butting, but you will find that anywhere. Welcome!

(And even a few Jews – although most of us aren’t particularly observant.)

@tinyfaery @DominicX Thanks for being honest. At one time I was part of a gang situation here, and I’m not a wuss, it actually took a lot of work to get where I’m at. I immediately revert to my old mindset when I read posts like yours ^ and want to attack, but I’ve grown beyond ugliness now, which is kind of cool. So I’ll wish you well and move on.

Thanks all.

No, but some jellies do go out of their way to make it seem so.

@WillWorkForChocolate You can say that again, I very rarely have pity parties, I’m the strong one in my life that takes care of everybody else.

I think the constant pummeling is what pushed me to this, otherwise I really don’t care what most people think outside my immediate family, and frankly, some of the answers here made me remember why I prefer animals to humans, some people just suck.

When they found a lump on my mammogram I went to my birds room and allowed myself five minutes to ‘feel’ that pain and fear, then I dusted off and went back to living. I’m fine and I’m strong, but I’m glad that I allowed myself to be vulnerable here at least once, now I know who I can trust here if nothing else. :)

What Abby said.
I like you, that’s it…my work here is done :-)

@ucme I like you, too, you’re my Huckleberry…lol

Just in case:
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-huc1.htm

@KNOWITALL Oh I knew what it meant, i’ve seen Tombstone several times :D

@rooeytoo My sincere apologies. Perhaps it was the wine, but I jumped a line. I meant that reply tp be directed to @Judi‘s response. Mea Culpa.

you do realize that using both vocal and christian is redundant right?

@rojo, I liked what St Francis said, “Preach the gospel at all times, and if necessary, use words.”
It would be nice if more of us Christians got that, I know.

Personally you’ve posted nothing that has offended me, but there’s no way I could read all of your posts either. Though we obviously have drastically different religious/spiritual views I still appreciate hearing something different from another viewpoint for a change.

You’re probably not alone in the feeling like a minority department. Ironically I likely agree with more than 90% of the users on here on at least 90% of the issues. I’m a very liberal live and let live type of person. Unfortunately I see some of the progressive agenda and feminisms supported on here to be just as authoritarian and discriminatory as the conservatism it claims to counter, and I’m not a paranormal skeptic so I guess the latter two reasons are enough to label me as unorthodox as well. I would think that most of the users on here are not looking for echo-chambers and likely appreciate hearing posts from users with typical nonflutherly type responses relating to different topics.

Jesus was part of a minority too. So was Martin Luther King.

But I understand your feelings. Sometimes the debates make me angry too. Yet these debates are necessary. Good debates are the fuel of progress.

This discussion has really peaked my interest. May I join it. @knowitall, I would like to know if you have doubts because there are so many religions, or because you find it hard to believe that the Bible is true and believable. Was it you that said, “I can not believe that Jesus could be (or is) the only way to get to heaven” or that he is indeed the Son of God?

Where is @KNOWITALL? She has been very quiet the past few days.

@Bellatrix – She’s back. Maybe she clicked “stop following” this thread.

She went on a vacation @mattbrowne and didn’t take us with her! Good that she’s back though hey?

@Bellatrix – Absolutely :-)

@banker_1 Doubts? No doubts. I’m tired of getting nasty PM’s that’s all. I don’t believe those words would ever be generated by me. :)

@mattbrowne @Bellatrix I’m back, just catching up. My new phone is dificult to navigate, especially when it’s set on Desktop like last week- lol

You are unworthy! Off with her head!!! No….leave her head alone! She’ll look funny on fb without it.

Glad you stayed @KNOWITALL

@Dutchess_III haha!! How can I stay away, even when I get mad, it’s still interesting.

Well, we love you. Head or no head. Hey. Will you come babysit for me?

@Dutchess_III My manager just went to KS today actually for a funeral, so you’re too late, sorry…lol

Well, send your manager then. I don’t care! (Where in Kansas is she going?)

@Dutchess_III I thought she said Wichita?

So she was telling me the other day that Dodge City is scary after dark with gangs, is that true? Ya’ll are being taken over by mexican and black gangs across the state?

It can’t be true, since Kansas doesn’t really exist.

Not here. My house was kinda inundated by gangs, at one point (my boy, Javier, flew his “colors” out the window on the top floor bedroom where he slept….his colors were the Mexican flag. It was cool, actually, but it sure increased car traffic in front of my house all hours of the day and night! The cars were loud too. They’d come roaring down the street and slow way down at hour house and cruse past, real slow. “Jauvier!!! You’re gonna get us all shot!!!”) But I kept them in line.

I started to say I didn’t know about Dodge but I remember now. We spent a few days in Dodge about 5 years ago,for a job my husband had in a factory there, and white’s are definitely, definitely the minority. Mexicans were the majority. Every single store clerk was a Mexican female. EVERYbody was Mexican it seemed!
The only place I ever saw a gathering of white people was at a Mexican restaurant! (True story.) The reason is, “Meat packing is the primary industry in Dodge City. Cargill Meat Solutions and National Beef both operate large facilities in the city.” Source.
Meat packing is dirty, bloody and gross. It stinks, and it’s dangerous. Most whites won’t do it for the money it pays.

Without fail, every Mexican I met was polite and very hard working. Maybe the bad ones only came out at night. I never met one.

I had to patch one bleeding Mexican up and give him a ride home one time. He had hit his head on something in the factory where my husband was installing some compressor lines and his head was bleeding like mad. So much blood. I told him I’d give him a ride to the hospital. He said No, just take him home. He said his wife would stitch it up. :/ So I got it staunched, and under control and took him home. His wife was really nice, too.

I don’t have any particular memories of the blacks there.

You know, around here you see the Mexicans stepping up to do much of the dirty hard work, like roofing, outdoor street and city work in the middle of the summer.
One time we were getting our roof reshingled. One portion of it was very, very VERY steep and very dangerous. Our contractor called in the Mexicans to do that part, because his guys wouldn’t do it, and HE wouldn’t do it. (I kept my son locked in the bathroom because he WOULD do it! Oh HAIL no, Chris!)

Kind of off the subject, but in 1997 or 98, thereabouts, this sleepy little farming community that I had moved to a few years earlier was suddenly inundated by blacks. Inner city blacks. They were LOUD, they YELLED. You’d go to the convenience store and you had to wade through gangs in do rags, colors flying. They’d be yelling, non stop, across the parking lot, yelling at “friends” driving by in low slung cars, stereos blasting. Fights constantly breaking out every where. So much violence and yelling and cussing and noise. Gunshots too.
I learned that a packing plant had been set up in a little nearby town, and that’s what brought them in.
Whatever, it destroyed my town. Not the color…the behavior. I was almost set to move when suddenly…..they were all gone. One minute they were there, the next they were gone. I don’t know why or how. I mean, I think the packing plant is still there but…they were just gone. I’m glad.

ANYHOW back to your question….I don’t know about the rest of the state. I hadn’t heard anything about gangs taking places over. There are certain parts of Wichita, the North East side, where white people shouldn’t go (but I did a few times. It was scary) especially after dark, but that’s always been that way.

Um, so, what was that about you being a Christian? :)

@Dutchess_III I was just curious because I drive through quick but we are into the old west stuff, and I was a little shocked when we were talking about Dodge City.

Well, it’s cause of the stock yards.

@Dutchess_III I ain’t plannin’ any trip that may be life-threatening, darlin so I’ll stick around I guess. :)