NRA t-shirt to school?

A ridiculous overreaction. Chill out, America.

@thorninmud Which reaction are you referring to?

@genjgal The suspension, etc.

I’m not surprised. Despite the fact that the Supreme Court ruled in 1969 that students do not lose their First Amendment protections in public schools, they are violated routinely.

I went to a public high school in the U.S. where I was prevented from publicly advertising a gay-straight alliance for suffering suicidal teenagers, that met in a counselor’s office. I was kicked out of class for wearing shirts protesting the second Gulf War, too.

I support dress codes in school. In this case there is no code against the child wearing the shirt, so to suspend or arrest him is ridiculous! If the administration feels children should not wear shirts with political statements, or any statements for that matter, then they should consider changing their policy. I can see asking a child to go home and change if some sort of ruckus occured. The other child or children involved in the altercation should have a consequence as well.

Another argument for school uniforms.

See @JLeslie
No policy, no suspension.
If the school board thinks the community will tolerate it, let them establish a “no message of any kind” policy on clothing worn to school.
Or better yet, put all those kids in a uniform and dispense with this bullshit once and for all.

Have you seen some of the things kids get suspended for wearing in school? It’s not just NRA t-shirts. The Man is easily offended.

I think he should be allowed to wear what he wants to school. If the school wants to control what the kids wear, let them make a clear policy, like @josie said. Then there won’t be any surprised kids or reporters. Win/win.

On a side note, my “Kill the pop-up window now!” instinct made me close the advertisement with the big, angry Obama face on it before I could read it. What was that for? It was kind of hilarious.

It’s a world gone mad. This is the paragragh I find most interesting.

“One question that many are asking is how clothing that displays images of firearms can be punishable when a statue with a soldier carrying both a gun and a grenade stands proudly in the school parking lot.”

I think it’s absurd. Not that it matters, but according to reports about this situation, there is a clothing policy:

“Logan County Schools’ dress code, which is posted on the school system’s website, prohibits clothing and accessories that display profanity, violence, discriminatory messages or sexually suggestive phrases. Clothing displaying advertisements for any alcohol, tobacco, or drug product also is prohibited.”

Could someone have interpreted his tshirt, which contains a rifle, as “violence”?

@Jaxk How about the comments below the article where they accuse schools of being run by left wingers and liberals. LMAO! It is the religious schools, which are often run by conservatives, that have strict dress codes usually. I just find it ironic. Personally, I am in favor of uniforms. I do find it odd there is a statue of soldier with a gun and grenade in front of a school. Maybe it isn’t on school property?

@tom_g Thanks for posting the link so we can see the t-shirt. I think his t-shirt is more of a political statement, but it could be interpreted as violence I guess? It isn’t depicting a violent
act.

Have you seen those unisex Charlton Heston tee-shirts?
Ben-Her & Ben-Him, fancy that!

This is one of those examples of disagreeing with what his shirt says, but defending his right to wear it. We’re Americans with individual identities and beliefs, and as long as we’re not directly causing harm by that expression, we are aloud to express it (and arguably ought to be encouraged to express it). I think uniforms are a very un-American “solution” for situations like this. Education about how the NRA is private-interest lobbying arm of the gun industry that has billions to profit from making guns ubiquitous, despite the the overwhelming will of the people to have sensible gun laws is much more American.

There is a school that wanted to ban a deaf 3 year old from signing his own name because the sign was a pretend finger gun shooting. Schools are insane. Every day I want to home school more and more because the system is just broken.

Political correctness run amok, except this stance isn’t even politically correct—certainly not in West Virginia. I’m totally with @josie, no policy, no suspension.

I wonder what they would say if someone wore the the t shirt I was wearing yesterday. It says, “When Jesus said ‘love your enemies’ he didn’t mean kill them.”

@JLeslie: “I think his t-shirt is more of a political statement, but it could be interpreted as violence I guess? It isn’t depicting a violent act.”

Who knows. But if the other articles are correct, we’re probably off base by saying “no policy”. It appears that there is. The problem with these policies is that they’re open to interpretation. If it is stated like the article describes it, practically anything would be in violation with creative enough interpretation.

@JLeslie

It seems that uniforms are the only way out of the politicle correctness problem. There is no question in my mind that the actions are the result of the anti-gun movement. Regardless of the motivation, I can’t believe the kid was arrested and charged. What has god wrought.

@tom_g Which is why I like uniforms. I would be in favor of not allowing any words on clothing worn to school in the absence of uniforms.

I want teachers to focus on what the child says and how well he does in class, not make some assumption about a child based on what his t-shirt says or whether his clothing is designer or not. Even with uniforms sometimes the wealth or poverty of a child shows through, which is unfortunate. There have been studies regarding teachers making assumptions on a child’s ability based on their impression of the child. Anything from gender, race, wealth, and others. Hopefully, that has changed over time as we have become more aware of this in education, the studies I had read were a long time ago.

Plus, other children can be horrible and idiots.

@Judi So, I really needed to think about what you wrote. If I saw your t-shirt I think I might assume the wrong characterization of you. You know me, I would ask someone directly before sticking with an assumption, but I think of you as a religious woman, strong belief in God, but, someone who does not _wear religion on your sleeve__, and certainly is very accepting of all people and looks for the goodness in everyone. So, wearing the t-shirt is a bigger outward religious statement than I would expect from you in public. I guess you are actually trying to talk to the Christians with that shirt?

I don’t wear it in public, but when I bought it, it was when we started the Iraq war. I wear it to work around the house in.
Today my t shirt says, “thankful.”

@Judi Oh. Since the question was talking about children wearing shirts to school I made a bad assumption.

I hate the NRA with a passion, but I am more passionate about abuses of the First Ammendment, especially when it concerns our children—our future leaders. @bookish1 is bsolutely right about the 1969 SCOTUS decision. This school board and others needs to be finally taught a lesson in American Government 101 and I know just the feds that can teach it to them.

@tom_g “Could someone have interpreted his tshirt, which contains a rifle, as “violence”?”

No. A weapon and violence are not the same thing. If they want to include weapons in their policy, they need to do that explicitly.

@glacial: “No.”

Remember, we’re all speculating here from incomplete info. I’m just speculating. But the point of my comment was to bring to everyone’s attention the fact that “they have no dress policy” appears to be wrong.

But since it appears that I may have been interpreted as defending this, allow me to play devil’s advocate….

Do you really think it’s much of a stretch to for someone to say that a gun, a tool that is specifically designed for killing (spare the target shooting comments), is related to their “violence” clause in their policy? If so, why? And would it be less or more of a stretch for someone who had a grenade on their shirt?

Over reaction totally. A few weeks ago a kid was sent home for eating a pop -tart into the shape of a gun. It resembled the shape of Idaho much more than any gun I have ever seen. Schools need to get back to the business of doing useful stuff, like effective teaching.

Hm. Teacher was wrong to get into an argument with the student about it. BUT….you have to wonder if the student provoked it, too.

Just another reason to homeschool your kids and from a legal perspective, if the kid’s parents want to sue the school, they can win the case.

There was a similiar incident like this a few months ago in connecticut where a kid wore an anti-gay t-shirt to school. Parents threatened to sue the school and after the school quickly and quitely changed its mind, they allowed the kid to wear the t-shirt. link

That’s sad, IMO, that a kid would even want to wear something like that.

Not really. Think of it like cigarettes. Some people are repulsed by them and so they protest with signs to have them removed from society or at least quarantined. The kid is repulsed by gays and so he protests through his clothing.

You don’t always need an explanation for your disgust, accept that you’re. I’m nauseated by various insects and yet there are people who eat them. Can’t explain it.

Hatred for another person, or group of people, is not the same as hating spiders.

There is a distinction but it doesn’t change anything.

If I had school age kids I would not allow them to wear an NRA shirt to school. Why tempt fate? Why risk it ? I’d say, “you can put this on the second you get home. If you wear it you might get suspended or something.” But, then, around here we have very strict dress codes and my daughter never once got into any trouble. There is an expression, “too close for comfort” that I think applies here.
Why run the risk of subjecting your child and household to any more stress than we already have?

He should have been allowed to wear the shirt. Do we know specifically what he was suspended/arrested for, though? What charges? If he and a teacher were having a heated discussion about it, maybe he got out of line during the discussion, you know? I mean, you don’t get arrested for refusing to change your shirt…

@tom_g I hear what you’re saying about that particular school’s interpretation, but my point is that they shouldn’t have interpreted it that way. If weapon = violence, they’d have to make sure no one ever wore a t-shirt with any kind of weapon on it. I’m willing to bet that there are any number of kids with swords on their t-shirts, for example. And I know Guns n Roses aren’t a thing anymore, but I’m sure there’s at least one hot, contemporary band with a weapon in its logo.

The whole event sounds like an overreaction to one t-shirt, because of one recent incident. The school should have had the presence of mind to realize that they need to follow their own dress code to the letter, or change the letter of the dress code to fit the new situation. They had the power to address this problem in a way that didn’t make anyone uncomfortable; they should have thought it through.

I want to know why people are talking seriously about making teachers carry guns to school in my State, yet just wearing an NRA shirt could get them suspended. To me, this sums up everything that is full of stupid in our schools.

@augustlan You’re right. Something doesn’t add up.

@Espiritus_Corvus That’s my attitude exactly. I harken to the words Voltaire’s biographer, Evelyn Beatrice Hall used to sum up his libertarian philosophy, “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

@ETPro, I thought my dad said that. ~

And then goes right back to school and does the same thing. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/22/west-virginia-teen-returns-to-school-with-nra-shir/

funny

@Judi… for the longest time I thought my Dad came up with “Whither thou goest, I follow.” Finally, when I was about 14, my Mom snapped at him “JESUS SAID THAT!” I was disappointed.

But it wasn’t Jesus, it was Ruth. ;-)

Ruth, the Supreme Court justice?

Ruth 1:16–17
After the death of her husband, her mother in law Naiomi tells her to go home to her people. Ruth replies with this verse that is often used in weddings.
“Whither thou goest I will go. Thy God shall be my God and thy people shall be my people.”

As of today, April 24, the school is filled with brats I mean other students wearing the same shirt. This issue is now out of control . The students are determined to win this battle which will reduce what little respect they had for the teachers up until now. Soon, it’ll be on the news shows.

@Aster Thanks for the update! I have mixed feelings. I think it is good to see students fight for a cause as long as they do it calmly without violence. You see above how I am for uniforms and/or dress codes; if they had uniforms none of this would be happening probably.

One thing to consider is I assume the parents know their children are wearing those shirts to school, so indirectly at least some of these parents are making a statement too.

Yes. I bet most if not all of the parents rushed out and bought the same shirt just to make trouble. It’s stupid. They are teaching their children, “forget rules. Just do what you think is right even if you get suspended. Then do it again.”

This reminds me of my first year teaching. I gave a detention to a kid who said “pimp” in class. For some reason this got to be a point of contention between me, this kid, and the rest of the class. I didn’t want to back down because I thought it would make me look weak. The kids did it because they knew it riled me up and put me on the defensive. The kid who I gave detention kept coming back and saying it. The other kids all would say it constantly (thank god there were only 6 kids in that class. That’s all I can say.) Finally the kids were getting detentions daily and saying pimp almost nonstop just to get me going.

I had another teacher tell me just to say pimp a few times myself and drop giving detentions and the problem would vanish. It did. I think sometimes as teachers—and as administrators people should know when to quit. Backing off doesn’t always show weakness.

You may know that “pimp” is now used in a different way than it used to be. “Pimp My Ride” means to put flashy things on your car isn’t it the name of a tv show too? It also has other meanings and I’m happy to say I don’t know what they are.
Backing off could work in many situations but I think this NRA shirt thing is going to cause a lot of trouble and airtime.

Well, if the administration says, “fine, wear the shirt.” The kids probably will lose interest. They can say wear the shirt while we discuss the matter of wearing shirts with messages with the PTA and take some votes.

Really, the parents and students should take it to a vote situation and clarify the rules, rather than jumping to what seems like a demonstration. Now it is a power struggle.

Damn it. Sometimes you just have to follow the rules whether you like it or not.

@Dutchess_III It seems it is possible the rules are unclear.

Well, common sense then.

@Aster—This was longer ago than that. It was just some random thing. The main thing was that I didn’t want to be seen as soft an easily taken advantage of and I thought that meant standing my ground. The kids knew I couldn’t stack detentions up until past the end of the year and they were pushing it because they thought it was funny and knew it would end badly for me. I hear it’s really common for new teachers to get caught in this trap. Apparently admins can too.

Teaching is very tricky, that’s for sure.
I once had a kid who was standing on his desk. I told him to get down and get back in his seat. He sat…on top of his desk. He was really pushing me. I walked up to him and said, “Get off your desk.”
He got in my face and said, “No. And you can’t make me. You can’t put your hands on me or you’ll lose your job.” Snarky, snarly grin.
I really got in his face, fire snapping in my eyes and I snarled, “It. Just. Might. Be. Worth. It.”
His eyes got wide and he hopped back into his seat.

Great comeback @Dutchess_III !

Well, he knew murder coming when he saw it! Sometimes sheer anger is all you have working for you. You control it, and it works for you.

@Dutchess_III Hahaha! That is a great story. :)

Oh, make no mistake! I was gonna killem! He saw it in my eyes! LOL!

The bigger question here is whether or not a local school policy can overturn the First Amendment, or a Supreme Court ruling. I’ve always thought that federal laws are supposed to outweigh state and local laws.

@Dutchess_III I’d done a similar thing to another teacher when I was in elementary school in the eighties. She said I was pushing my luck, and like the cocky kid I used to sometimes be I went through with actually imitating the the motion of a push right in front of her. I paid for that one with a large wooden paddle to my butt 10 times, and then I had to sit in the corner on that sore butt for the remainder of the class. I can’t believe how much of a difference that 30 years made concerning school policies.

@Paradox25 Children don’t get to say swear words in class, are you going to say that the first amendment allows them too?

Even in the 80’s that punishment would never have happened to me in school.

@JLeslie This isn’t about swear words but a shirt that I would hardly call offensive. I’m not sure what you’re implying about my punishment as a kid either since it actually happened and corporal punishment was very common in school in my neck of the woods then.

@Paradox25 you are talking about freedom of speech, and my point is freedom of speech does not mean someone can say anything they want, or wear a shirt saying or depicting any old thing.

Why did you bother to bring up your corporal punishment? My point was you said things have changed since the 80’s and my point is nothing has changed regarding corporal punishment in schools since the 80’s where I went to school. Your sweeping statement only applies to certain areas of the country, assuming you are in America. And, in parts of the south there are still children going home with welts on their butt, happened in MS a couple years ago when I was living in TN. Some teacher or principal hit a very small child a little too hard.

I hope the school is taken to court and sued. There was no profanity on the garment in question so the whole thing is a blatant exhibition of intolerance on the part of the teacher. Teachers are paid to educate our kids, not make social policy based on personal beliefs. If the kid was run out of school because of a shirt depicting some gay pride mantra someone would have been run out of town on a rail.

@woodcutter I think the question is whether the shirt depicted violence.

@JLeslie Violence? Every time someone wheres a shirt with a team logo from the NFL gives off a more violent intent than anything NRA clothing can do. Lacking real tangible violence or violating current school dress code, it would seem to any constitutional scholar the first amendment applies here. The teacher was being petty expecting the student to fold up and when he didn’t the teach felt the need to take it up a notch. From that point there was no going back. If this teacher gets fired we should all hope he doesn’t seek employment in law enforcement. Because it looks like he would fit in there just fine~

@woodcutter I don’t think the t-shirt depicts violence. But when you argue that a football is more violent than a gun, I honestly don’t know what planet you are from. It’s entirely possible to argue for the kid’s shirt without resorting to total fantasy.

@glacial I never said football is more violent than a gun. A gun sitting in a box somewhere has no violent tendencies ever. That’s because it’s a thing. A shirt with a picture of a gun is slightly less violent than that~ Football is a violent sport. People get hurt playing. You missed my point. godamm…. you do that a lot!
Banning an NRA shirt for violence is as dumb as banning one from the NFL, or Extreme Cage fighting. Violence would be a straw man excuse, the teacher has obvious bias against the ownership of guns. Again, as educators it not their place to dictate what people can like or believe. They are out of their pay grade.Wayyyyy the hell out of their pay grade. The excuse the teacher gave was the offending shirt….wearer, was disrupting the learning process. Closer to the truth was that shirt was offending the teachers’ sensitivities and became butthurt that the rest of the school body was chanting the offending shirt wearer’s name in the middle of all this. The dress code did not prohibit such garments.

Teacher was an ass.

@woodcutter I was just pointing that out, because it seemed like you had not read all the answers. In fact, I had written, ”...I think his t-shirt is more of a political statement, but it could be interpreted as violence I guess? It isn’t depicting a violent act.” And, @tom_g even wrote it again responding to me. I didn’t originally suggest it was violent, but there seems to be a policy of the school to not allow a t-shirt that depicts violence.

@JLeslie Why did you bother to bring up your corporal punishment? Um I was responding to somebody else so I’m not sure why that bothered you. So if @Paradox25 gets a bit off topic I get jumped on for it, but when others do it it’s ok? Perhaps this is why many people are eliminating their accounts on here, the double standards in how some users are treated on vs others for doing the same things.

For christsakes, will everybody just give everybody else the benefit of the doubt that they have good intensions in their posts? Spring is happening right outside your door, green is back, the long winter is ending. Time to cut some slack and remember we’ve all been friends here for a long, long time.

@Paradox25 I didn’t ask because I was upset you were off topic. I asked because you had a problem with me commenting on it. I was going down your tangent with you.

@Espiritus_Corvus I’m actually pretty sure that Spring is not happening…considering the fact that it’s been snowing the last few days….

It’s been 90 here. We skipped spring and went straight to summer.