A former gay lover of mine killed himself two weeks ago. Now, do you care?

I wish that people’s sexual behavior didn’t matter, and that we didn’t have to pick one of these labels. We are born into a world where decisions are made for us.

But since it does matter, I do care.

I really don’t want to know what consenting adults do in the bedroom; it’s none of my business. I don’t think that makes me a bad guy. I’m sorry you lost a friend.

I’ve always cared and share in your anger and am very sorry about your friend’s passing.

I do and always have, and I appreciate your voicing your anger.

I have to say that I think some people meant they don’t care as in (whether he’s gay or not), in a positive way.

One of my reasons for posting is because all day I’ve been hearing “who cares” “enough already” and it made me think, because some people equate not hearing about something, as pretending it doesn’t exist, which can be more comfortable for some people than real change of heart. Peace.

You want honesty? Honestly, no, I do not care about your friend. As far as I did not know him and never met him. I do feel empathy for you and your feelings because, even if it is over the internet, we have a degree of contact and it makes me sad when someone I know, even remotely, hurts.
Being gay may have been a part of the reason your friend chose suicide but it has nothing to do with whether or not I care.
I am sorry that some of the discussions have caused you pain and that I have been a part of what hurt YOU.

I am sorry for your loss. And your friend and families loss.

You have every right to be angry, and it is a part of the grieving process.

Love and hugs.

Peace, my brother. All is NOT well, but it is better. More people do care. Weep. Mourn. But then go on and be strong. The more people who stand up, with pride, the more will be recognized. The bigoted are losing and are getting more and more quiet.
I send you my love and am helping fight for your cause.

I think that people, like myself, that don’t care what happens in the NBA, period! Your friends death is a tragedy. As a person that attempted suicide several times; I’ve learned a couple things. Committing suicide is the ultimately selfish act. It makes your friends and family feel guilty for something that wasn’t their fault and makes it more likely that younger family members more likely to commit suicide when life hits its inevitable bumps.

The reason that I am now working on getting better control of myself and avoiding suicide is that I don’t want to inflict pain in my family. Some days make the idea of suicide very attractive but then I think ahead for what I want to do.

There is no comparison between the death of friends and family and what a bunch of ill-mannered selfish millionaires do.

Like I said, I feel very bad for your loss but feel nothing for NBA punks.

I care.
Though I am more sad than angry.

I’m sorry you’ve lost someone close to you. [hugs]

But, but, but – don’t we live in a “post-racial” society too?

Sending you love.

Yeah, I’m not always clear on what people mean when they say they “don’t care” about sexuality. It’s one thing to truly not be curious about someone’s sexuality. For the most, that’s irrelevant to me unless I’m interested in the person as a possible romantic partner, in which case, I should probably find out if they’re gay first.

But does “not caring” mean that you turn a blind eye to anti-gay discrimination and bullying? I don’t think that’s what most people mean, but if you truly ignore sexuality, then it seems you also ignore the problems that are related to sexuality.

I think I understand what you are saying, it is very clever. Like saying you don’t care that Martin Luther King Jr was black, it takes away from his accomplishment.

However I have to talk in the words I feel comfortable with, and I would have to say that I don’t care about peoples race or gender or sexual orientation.

I do care, very much in fact, that this kind of thing happens. I do care that this has lead to someones death. I think hating on gay people is something that comes from the most childish and subnormal parts of our humanity, it is wrong, and I condemn it.

I care that it is hard for gay people to live, either in or out of the closet, and I have no problem hearing that someone is gay, or what they get up to. You can tell me in detail if you like, it wont make me uncomfortable.

I care that your friend killed himself, I care that you are grieving, and you have my full support, as does the gay rights movement.

Please don’t be angry with me, I know I have the habit of putting my foot in it, I am just trying to say, that you have my support, that I think your question is very clever, and and just trying to help you feel better, in my own random poorly structured way.

If it makes you feel any better, I used to be very homophobic in my mid teens. If I had spent time back then on Q&A sites, I would have probably have been in the “being gay is not natural” team, but here I am now, age 30, and I really don’t have a problem with it at all, and have totally changed sides.

You said things are slowly getting better, well there has to come a tipping point soon, more and more it is going to trend towards acceptance and normality in society.

I know its hard, but if you are gay, you just have to come out, and if you are not gay, you just have to not care about it. Yes, care if it is your son, care that he may get bullied or have problems, but don’t care that he or she is gay. Just, I think that is the only way it will fix it all and make it work.

I hope you feel better soon, I’ll shut up now.

I was very happy to hear about Jason Collins’ coming out. I am a basketball fan and went to a lot of Nets games when he was on the roster. I am the offspring of a man who was miserable because of society’s shunning of homosexuality when he was growing up in the 1940s-50s, and I am close friends with people who range all across the sexuality spectrum. I admire Jason Collins’ corkage, and I hope I live to see the day where sexuality is a non-issue.

Labels on people are such a horrible thing. Im not gay, but know and deeply care for several gay people. Jason Collins no doubt will face much more prejudice in his life, but I am proud of him for his courage. Everyone needs to check their own family closet before being so quick to criticize others. I’m sorry for the loss of your friend, I hope he finds the peace he deserves.

Bah! Too late to edit.
*courage not corkage! Stupid auto-correct!!

I think we’ve become used to saying I don’t care to show acceptance. They are saying “I already have no problem with you being gay.”

But you’re right, it would be much better for those that come out to be congratulated for their courage.

It really had not crossed my mind to congratulate someone coming out. This may be because many straight people don’t understand how hard it is for some gay people.

In highschool, people already knew who was gay before they came out. We already accepted them and they were liked and zeemed happy. So when they came out, it seemed the only reaction could be “Um, ok….cool”.

@Hawaii_Jake, I’ve always liked you, just not in that way, you know?, and I realize that you’re upset right now and you’ve been living with this hot button issue all of your life, but as far as people’s “not caring about” a professional athlete’s sexuality, you’ve got an entirely incorrect outlook on this.

If I haven’t lost you already with this response, because believe me, I understand how reading comprehension drops when you’re angry having experienced this at first hand more times than I want to relate and again, I get that you’re angry and upset—this is the place you wanted to arrive at, isn’t it? Why should anyone’s sexuality be an issue for anyone who isn’t a real or potential lover or mate? It’s none of our business.

This is a place that many people should have arrived at many, many years ago. I’m sorry, for my part, that it has taken me so long. But here we are: I don’t care if you’re gay. I don’t care if the entire Red Sox squad is gay, and if I find out that Tom Brady is gay, then I might just make a play for him myself. This is a good place for the rest of us to have gotten to, finally.

I realize that you’re not in a good place right now.

On the other hand, I sympathize greatly with you. You haven’t said explicitly – whether you even know “for certain” – why your friend did what he did. But he’s gone now, and I’m sorry – for you – about that. You have my deepest condolences, truly.

And as far as the courage of one or more basketball players to come out of the closet (and let’s not forget that Britney Griner did it a few weeks ago, before she even started her pro career), I do admire their courage. That’s a completely different thing.

Be well, man. Take care of yourself. Come back often. We love you, you know. Just not in that way…

Hey @Hawaii_Jake, you already know I lurve you.
I have question for you. Should I care if a former straight lover of someone here committed suicide? Am I supposed to rate that lower on the care scale?
I think both cases are sad. Imagine how awful life must be for anyone to decide to end it.
The reasons they do it are different. But gay, straight, man, woman, they made a decision that death was preferable to life. That is so sad.
My sympathies for you and his family. I can only offer a hug. (U)

@LuckyGuy I don’t think he’s saying that a gay person’s suicide is more important than a straight person’s, I think he’s saying that a gay person’s suicide brings out the issue of high suicide rates among LGBT people and anti-LGBT discrimination leading to suicide.

@Hawaii_Jake I thought I told you, my friend that I grieve for your loss and I respect the pain you feel and the worry you experience about whether you or anyone could have prevented his suicide. I am straight but I see you feelings as meaningful as anyone else’s. All I can do is to support you and all people to be free to live authentically whatever your sexual orientation. I respect those who find a way to live as they choose despite the potential discomfort of others who will not try to understand. I can only imagine the daily pain of living a secret life because of fear of those who will not accept or understand who they are. I want our society to learn that all people have the right to be who they are and to do so openly without being judged or condemned. I can support such change but I can’t bring it about simply be being supportive. I challenge those who challenge your rights and those of all LGBT persons. In time, orientation will be a non-issue except for those contemplating deep interpersonal relationship with someone else. Otherwise, it should be no one else’s business to approve or disaprove how others live and love.

Glad you’re here. I am happy if you are happy with your sexuality. I don’t need to know about it just as I don’t need to know about my straight friends’ sex lives. (And I don’t nor do I want to.)

I had a casual friend who just came out. I know it was hard for him because of his background.

But like @Blackberry said we already knew and loved him anyway. Most of us felt bad that he wouldn’t or couldn’t share that with us. That he didn’t trust us enough and I personally didn’t feel like I was close enough to him to tell him please you are just hurting yourself. Though me and my big mouth did have a few pointed questions and comments, he chose to defer and I never pushed.

When he came out I knew he had a real shot of happiness. And guess what a couple months later he was engaged to be married… He moved away prior to coming out so I haven’t seen him but got invited to the wedding which I know will be a masterpiece of artistry and am reasonably sure the chemistry and love will be there too. I might actually be there to see it!

(Thought a happily ever after story might be appropriate)

@LuckyGuy Thank you for the question. @DominicX answered it.

Thank you, all, for your condolences. I asked several questions in mid-April directly related to handling the grief of losing someone I was once very intimate with. Those helped me greatly.

I am now reacting to another thread on here, which I feel denigrates a courageous stance taken by a public figure. I soaking it all in.

It is always tragic and a terrible loss when any human being (except murderers) commits suicide.

I’ve known a lot of guy people over the years. I have always thought of them as good people. I’ve never know a bad one. I lived in San Francisco for 12 years. I always thought that the high gay men population was a plus for me then when I was young and single as there were more single women available and I never had trouble finding dates. It was awkward for me at times when gay guys would ask me for a date but I was always kind to them when I turned them down. My next door neighbors are two gay guys and are very friendly hard working good people and among the best neighbors we’ve ever had.

I am a former bigot. I don’t like it about myself but its the truth.
I also admit (ducking ahead of time) that as much as I hate it about myself, my initial reaction to things like a gay love scene in a movie is “ick.”
I think that the more people that come out and the more it is “normal” in society the easier it will be for people like me who hate the sliver if bigotry that remains in their heart and desperately want to be a good hearted person and free of prejudice, to overcome the long held error of their thought process.
Do I care? Of course I care. I care because who this guy loves SHOULD be something I don’t care about.
I think that the public attitude on this issue is rapidly changing. I think that the people who said “I don’t care” were just saying that they personally have moved beyond worrying about what people do in their own bedrooms.
I’m so sorry that your friend still didn’t feel safe to be himself in public. I’m praying that the next generation will see the stigma and hate as ancient history.
I’m sure bigots will always exist, but soon I believe that THEY will be the odd balls, the queer ones, and not the people who dare to be their authentic selves.

I certainly am not asking you to go away. And you can push legislation and sue and everything else that you choose to do in order to create an illusion that you have total social acceptance, and not simply the tolerance to which you are entitled.

But the truth is, lots of people think homosexuality is wrong, and lots more (like me) are indifferent.

I suspect that suppressed confict is not going to change in your lifetime.

I submit your anger and defiance are wasted, and possibly destructive to yourself.

I am still indifferent. Your personal loss is sad, but not my fault. As long you don’t hurt or defraud me or the ones I love, you have no problem with me. But a shitty attitude, and a provocative implication, won’t make me your friend.

I cannot express how sad I feel for you and for him.

I live in Massachusetts, which is probably the most liberal state there is. Yet regardless of politics or even the gay marriage laws in effect, I still see some people against anything homosexual. It is ubiquitous. My mom said that homosexual behavior was not acceptable and that is how I looked at it before I started forming opinions of my own. I find it funny, however, that there are people that say “oh yeah—gay people! they’re cool!” and what not, yet still say things like “that’s gay” or “you’re a queer”. It’s pure immaturity, but I’m talking about people my age; the younger generation. I do have faith in my generation, however. I think that we will come to realize that the older generation is…well…old, and move on with our life just as we did with the discrimination in the south.
It really bothers me that anyone can be opposed to these types of love. People try to objectify love, a majorly subjective entity, and that just causes so many problems. It makes me feel really bad to hear that another person got rid of their life because of others’ hate for their own love interests. Not too long ago, a man named Halligan came to speak at my school about bullying. His son Ryan killed himself because he was bullied. Rumors went around about the kid being gay, and he was so humiliated that he hung himself when he was 14 years old (whether he was actually gay or not is not known). It is a cruel world when it comes to homosexuality, but I believe that it is changing for the better.

Lesbian here. I heard the headline about the basketball player who came out publicly. My knee-jerk reaction was, “who cares…” I felt that reaction because I thought about the countless, everyday average individuals who risk family relationships and friendships and other unknowns by coming out in the public world around them. I thought to myself, “why not bring attention to the need for coming out publicly, no matter if you’re John Q. Public or a sports star?” So, this is my general attitude about public figures when they either come out willingly or are outed by someone else.

I do understand the importance of having role models. So, for this, I am thankful when any public figure comes out and sets a positive example for young people.

However, the bigger issue, to me, is why coming out to others is important as opposed to who is coming out publicly. @Hawaii_Jake named several reasons for the need. I’d like to add to the list.

Living in a heteronormative society means everything is automatically geared towards heterosexual individuals and couples: Laws, advertising, public opinions, workplace issues, public education, cultural traditions, religious environments (that are not “open and affirming”), housing restrictions, financial affairs, taxes, social security, health and auto insurance, and many other rights and privileges. Straight couples are constantly celebrated for achieving milestones: engagement, wedding ceremony, anniversaries, having children and grandchildren, growing old together and being the cute elderly couple sitting on a park bench, people-watching. Notice that in the short list of rights and privileges, as well as celebrations, bedroom activity was not listed. Any wise person knows marriage is not about sex, nor is it based on sex (any long-lasting healthy marriage would need to be based on friendship, ability to communicate and compromise, and a bunch of other necessary relationship skills).

Straight couples come out all the time – by announcing to their friends and family that they are a couple, by posting an engagement announcement in the local newspaper and their college’s alumni newsletters, by sending out wedding invitations, and other important news related to the milestones of their relationship. Take note, sex and sex life were not listed as part of coming out for straight couples. It’s simply a non-issue, because it is “normal” – hence “heteronormative.”

Every time I encounter a new situation of interacting with someone who does not know me or anything about me, by referring to my partner, I am coming out once again. Every time I interact with friends and family members who believe homosexuality is a sin, I have to be on my “A” game so that I don’t say or do anything to reinforce negative perceptions. So, I have to edit my everyday normal life which mirrors a straight couple’s everyday normal life in many ways, so that I don’t get accused of forcing my sex life (which I never mention) onto someone who thinks everything in my life revolves around sex.

It is because of heteronormativity and its consequences, those of us in the LGBTQ community who choose to come out publicly make a big deal about the need to do so. To not have hope of being welcomed, recognized, embraced, celebrated, privileged, respected, or treated equally simply because Susie loves a Lady instead of a Dude, would drive anyone into a depression and despair.

I care that another person came out publicly. His being a sports star is a non-issue to me. The more of us who come out, and put our lives out for public review at the risk of receiving numerous consequences, the more those enjoying heteronormativity will realize we are the same. The more the LGBTQ community is seen as the same (“as normal”), the more hope LGBTQ individuals of any age will have to live life to its fullest. This is why I care. This is why I’ve been “out” in my personal public world for over 10 years. This is why I share my story publicly on the Internet. No one ever deserves to face this world without hope.

@Hawaii_Jake – as many have already shared, I offer my condolences to you and to your former “in-laws” for the price your loved-one paid for not having hope afforded to him.. the hope that is a basic right for every human yet held by a majority who at times simply do not understand what we go through on a daily basis as gender and sexual minorities.

@rainbowunbroken Straight couples come out all the time – by announcing to their friends and family that they are a couple,

That’s the thing. Technically a man using the words “my boyfriend” is “coming out”. Is that the same as getting on the rooftops in assless chaps and shouting that you’re fabulous? I feel like a lot of people’s attitude towards gay people “announcing it” comes from the idea of gay pride parades and such, but really, just saying “my boyfriend” or showing up to a family gathering with your same-sex partner is “announcing it”.

It’s interesting that people equate revealing your sexuality to “revealing the intimate details of your bedroom activities”. When really, revealing your sexuality could be as simple as talking about your same-sex partner in a completely non-sexual way. If straight people can do that, why shouldn’t a gay person be able to do that without it automatically being some kind of intimate sexual reveal? There’s definitely still a significant double standard here.

I absolutely care. And I agree with what you’re saying. I, too, am annoyed by people saying they don’t care.

Some other basketball player (I think) posted something on Twitter in response to Jason coming out that said, “All the beautiful women in the world and these guys want to fool around with other guys. I don’t get it.” This level of ignorance astounds me. It’s ridiculous that, in 2013, we still have people that think this way.

People of all different walks of life off themselves for lots of different reasons. It’s bad when that happens. And the killer puts their feelings above those who care about them one last time. Being gay doesn’t make the death any more drastic.

my condolences

@woodcutter – statistically speaking, being gay increases the likelihood of suicide for individuals who lack support normally found in straight communities.

The more things change the more they stay the same. Trite, but true.

I care.

The suicide rate for men in their 40’s is 3.5 times the rate for women. It’s sad.
The suicide rate for 20–24 year old veterans is 3 times the rate for non veterans. It’s sad.
The suicide rate for dentists is 6.6 times higher than the rest of the working population. It’s sad.
The suicide rate for LBGT is X times the rate for straight. It’s sad.

If you want to do something positive about the issue, call someone who might be contemplating it.

Huh well I understand this is your cause @Hawaii_Jake and that it is personal.

But personally we have gay celebrities’, politicians’, ceo’s, etc. I care nothing about sports, what little I know is usually third hand info. I wasn’t aware that there weren’t homosexuals in athletics. So I just accepted it when I saw the headline on here with out question. That’s cool, good for him.

We can’t help the bigoted past. So we may not always be sensitive.

As to high suicide rates, well personally I have very little sympathy for suicidal people, the people left behind, yes. But many of us face really difficult issues and situations and life hands us crap that we have no idea how we can adapt to it. We do it and life goes on. My attitude is personal. And I don’t think one issue causes suicides. I view that as highly erroneous and bad or misleading science and statistics. Suicides and their causes are very multifaceted. And I don’t pretend to understand it, but everyone reacts to their environment differently and everyone makes mistakes. But to make the one that intentionally takes you out of the game forever. Well you have to be pretty serious about it. And if that is the case, that person seemingly gets what they want at the cost of everyone else.

I remember being younger then 10 and being alone when I walked into a situation where a close family member was trying to od. That left very a distinct impression on me and even though I have gotten as far as planning how I would do it, when I couldn’t imagine going on to the next day. Well I haven’t. Because I can never forget the disgust and the anger I felt and just the self absorption and the short sightedness and waste I was watching. If things had turned out differently I would be carrying the guilt of not having stopped it, with me. When in many ways it wouldn’t have been my fault, I would have still felt it. I would have to overcome that as well as all the other baggage and hiccups that I had to face.

Edit: That person btw now has a lovely family of her own. Her life isn’t storybook, but she’s got it a lot better then most people. And we have only talked about the incident briefly but we have a fairly good relationship now, I am very grateful things worked out for her.

@rainbowunbroken “being gay increases the likelihood of suicide” Are we are blaming the individual or the fact they are gay? How do we know gay had anything to do with their choice? For every single one? The cause for suicide is generally the same for those who go that route, Right? Or are there many victims of suicide who just happened to be gay? Because if their friends or relatives knew the probable reasons then there was a chance they were aware of something wrong? And therefore probably had some kind of support. I find it hard to believe there are towns where there is only one (1) gay person total living there. Someone else who was also gay was in contact with these people so, are you saying that gays make lousy support to the point that they can’t open up to one another? I don’t think that being gay is a factor as much as the individual not getting help. Killing oneself is pretty fuckin selfish and leaves those behind bewildered and to some degree very angry. Angry people want to act out because sometimes thats what angry people do. Often the best way for them (they feel) is to blame someone or something because maybe just maybe they feel guilty for not doing more. I don’t feel like link bombing this but if somewhere there are stats on all gay suicides compiled, as well as any meds they were prescribed I would like to see it. It might disclose that many of those who ended it were also on some of the poisons that pharmaceutical Co’s dispense. Whether we want to admit it, because lets be real, a good chunk of my readers here also use them, these drugs are at the bottom of people doing bad things to themselves and others. A very emotional and political can of worms gets opened for sure.
Don’t get me wrong, some people using these drugs are helped by them and swear by them, but, there are those who find out that they don’t so much. Someone who murders themselves tend to really piss me off because I know life is a struggle most the time, some say its a bitch. Sometimes I hate this deal but not going to kill myself and really lose. I have people to think about who need me. Being gay and others using it to blame it on, by proxy of others not welcoming them with open arms and therefore feeling bad enough to kill themselves is shit. It attempts to make those who are heterosexual with serious problems who also make the ultimate fuck up seem more foolish? Like they somehow had it easier?

On a personal level, whether someone is gay, straight, bi, trans, pansexual, asexual, into this or that—all that is a non-issue for me. I’ve seen enough and understand enough that for me, I have no emotional investment in other peoples’ sexual behaviors. ONLY when it involves me do I have an opinion and preference.

Now, on a societal level, I am thrilled that Jason Collins came out. I am completely behind him 100% and gave out a little cheer when I saw the news.

So, yes I care when society treats anyone in a negative, harmful or discrediting way—I care very much and take action on a societal or community level frequently… but at the same time, I am not affected by what my family, friends, acquaintances, etc do to ring their own bells.

@Hawaii_Jake I am sorry about your friend—suicide is never ever a simple thing to deal with, as a survivor or the victim.

As for stats… according to some stats, because of my ADHD/TBI I’m 1 in 4 more likely to attempt suicide from age 40–60. I can understand why, but until society changes their view of the disabled, gay, neurodiverse, elderly etc, people who are marginalized will struggle with suicide.

@Hawaii_Jake…first of all, I am very sorry for your loss. Nobody should ever have to go through that. I think when people make the statement that they don’t care that “such-and-such” is gay…well, that can be taken two ways. Some people may mean it in an unkind way…actually, unfortunately many probably mean it in this way. For me, when I say it doesn’t matter, I mean that it in no way changes my feelings towards that person…and hopefully that’s what others on here mean too. When I say that it doesn’t matter, I am not trying to trivialize the person’s orientation (it is a part of who they are)...but, rather, in other words, if I already thought a lot of that person, then finding out they happen to be gay is not going to change how I feel about them in the slightest, (I hope the above makes sense…)

Do I have anything against gay people? No.

Am I sorry for your loss? Sure, but I also feel sorry for orphan kids in some Indian orphanages being secretly abused for cheap labor during the day and prostituted during the night.

Do I think there is a problem with society and its acceptance of gays? Yes. But I believe the problem is not that itself. I believe there is a bigger problem of hooliganism and idiocy that is accelerated by our pop stars and celebrities and spread across our schools and universities. Too many people cannot grasp the extent of it and so there are raised children who are essentially ‘lemmings’ and they stand for nothing . They will adopt and abandon values and principal based on what is most convenient for them. When such is the population we are raising then issues such as homophobia, racism and bullying are far from being solved or the only thing wrong.

On the other Q you reference I think most jellies say they don’t care, because they completely accept gay people, and wish it was a non-issue for everyone. That there was no labeling whether someone was gay or straight or bi or whatever. That we didn’t focus on who someone chooses to love, but rather the content of their character (to quote someone else).

Anger is a part of grieving, someone said it above. You are moving through the stages and I think it is good you have moved onto anger, because it brings you closer to acceptance.

I’m very sad for your loss, and sad your former lover cut his life short. He must have been in a lot of pain. The indifference of the jellies to whether someone is gay or not I would think would make gay people happy. It is interesting to read your perspective. I see it as a reminder to me how difficult it can be for gay people. Real and perceived.

@woodcutter – “Are we are blaming the individual or the fact they are gay?”

Please reread my comment which you quoted only in part.

I suggested the issue is lack of support, not the person’s sexual orientation. Generally speaking, the straight community has easier access to crisis intervention services and a network of family, friends, and others within their surroundings. Even though the same public services are available to all, this does not guarantee such services are LGBTQ-friendly or equipped to adequately serve this population’s specific needs.

I care very much. My friend’s sister committed suicide last month…because of lack of acceptance of her sexuality. This wasn’t a teen. This was a 45 year old woman. The angst of unaccepted sexuality has no age/sex/race boundaries.

That particular thread really got on my nerve too. I’ve been at a loss what to say in regards to the “I don’t give a flying f**k attitude” by some people.

When people say they don’t care about what goes on in other people’s bedrooms… Um huh? Who the hell is talking about what they are doing in the bedroom? If I tell someone I’m gay (which takes more courage than some people realise by the way), I do not go into any detail whatsoever about what my partner and I do in the bedroom. Who does that?

Saying I am gay is telling the person I trust them enough not to physically/psychologically attack me for simply being gay. It is different than someone saying they’re straight. Straight is assumed until proven otherwise.

You don’t want it on your news you say? You don’t want to see it in the media? Everywhere I look, heterosexuality is practically screaming at me. Why is that okay? Why do I have to be bombarded by Mr. and Mrs. Smith every-bloody-where I go. Everything I watch and listen to…it is tailored to those of you who don’t give a flying f**k. And you think having homosexuality in the spotlight is not something to care about? Really?

The top box office movies are saturated with heterosexuality. Add some homosexuality and, oh my freaking gawd, the rating has to change. How is this perceived as right?

Some day we won’t need these courageous celebrities/politicians/etc to come out and help the rest of us gays not feel so left out and tabooed. However, today these role models are still needed. Maybe some of you live in a communities that are more open-minded. Not all of us are so lucky. So many people forget there is an entire world of hateful people out there that want nothing better than to beat homosexuals into the ground, literally.

Obviously, we’ve come a long way in acceptance of homosexuality. However, we have a really long way to go before it is something to not care about.

It still amazes me how there are so many straight people who take their normalcy for granted. Something as simple as holding hands in public…is not always so simple for gay people. These little things those same straight people don’t even think about can be the source of much stress for gay couples. My partner and I, we do not give public displays of affection for fear of being confronted/attacked by haters. I can’t even count the many times I have had to explain this to my straight friends/family…how they take these things for granted. Every single one of them have said “I never really thought about it that way.”

I have been with my partner for 12 years. Her parents have yet to meet me. They refuse to. My partner’s immediate family is where the “out of the closet” ends on her side (other than her friends). The rest of her family has no idea. It is to be kept secret until her parents either evolve or pass away. This makes it incredibly difficult and uncomfortable for her at large family gatherings. She is East Indian, so it’s all about marrying so-and-so and having children. They ask when they’ll be invited to her house. She comes up with excuses because, remember, I don’t exist. There are so many examples.

I’m not even getting into the non-family stuff we’ve dealt with as a same-sex couple. Nor will I go into our own coming out stories and how difficult they were. This post would be so much longer.

So, yeah, I care that gay people are in the public eye. I care because so many of us are still being worn down by those who don’t give a flying f**k and/or those who hate us simply because we are not normal.

If you don’t care that I’m gay, that’s just fine, I am not in the public eye. Humanity needs more normal gay celebrities. Not just the people wearing chaps and riding floats in parades. Can you not give us that? Why is that so much to ask? One gay athlete is across your media for such a short fraction in time. It is not the end of the world. And I’ll tell you this, it won’t be the last time. Might as well get used to it, eh?

When it becomes so common to see famous homosexuals in the media/politics to where people don’t even think about it, that is when it will become a dead issue. Until then, I welcome such a spectacle as a gay athlete taking centre stage.

I apologise for the rant but, like I said, this really hit a nerve. I wasn’t expecting to type out so much.

Peace out.

I decided to do some searching for suicide rate in LBGT and how they compare with their straight peers. All I could find was suicide attempts, not suicides, and that rate was 3.4x the rate of their peers. It’s sad.

Doing some math it appears that a male dentist in his 40’s is almost 2.5x more likely to commit suicide than his LGBT peers. It’s sad.

It is sad and I do care when ANYONE commits suicide. Life must seem totally worthless and lost to want to end it. But I think the question here is when will our societal norms change when anyone who is different be accepted? I think the answer lies with how we consider what is normal and how raise our children. Do people feel threatened over others’ sexual orientation? Or do they simply not understand the differences in others? Change our societal norms, the mindsets, and behaviors of others and we’ll move towards a more pluralistic society. Other countries have accomplished this already, but with other big issues such as gender, racial, and sexual equality have a long way to go in America. Not that I’m not proud to live in America and am glad we have different world views than other countries, I’m just saddened that we still have a long journey ahead to appreciate people as INDIVIDUALS no matter the gender, race, or sexual preference. Hang in there, know that I believe all life is precious.

Honestly, I don’t care if a person is gay, straight or bi (like myself). It’s not that I don’t care about that person and their feelings, I just don’t care about who they are attracted to or how they choose to live their lives. Why should I care? It’s none of my business just like it’s no one else’s business what my sexuality is. I do care about equality and will stand up for a person’s right to equality. I am also always pleased for a person when they have the courage to come out but I am not going to applaud them for that forever because dwelling on it (even in a positive way) is like saying that is all that defines them, which it shouldn’t be. I don’t think anyone in that thread meant anything negative when they said they didn’t care, they just feel, like me, that it doesn’t make any difference to them what someone’s sexuality is. I see it as a positive that more and more people don’t care about sexuality, to me it means that people, in general, are less prejudice about it.

I do care that someone commited suicide and I do care that you have lost someone that you cared for. Whatever his reasons were, I care that someone was so unhappy that he felt that suicide was his only option. Do you think he commited suicide because people didn’t care about his sexuality? I find that people not caring made it easier for me to be honest about my bisexuality. It wasn’t a big deal. I felt braver admitting it to myself than I did admitting it to others.

I have just read @CWOTUS response and he said exactly what I meant in a far better way than I could!!! Ignore my answer and read @CWOTUS’ like I should have done before I started composing!!!

@Leanne1986 GA, you explained what I had in my head much better than me. Were you surprised at first when people didn’t care you were bisexual? When family members have come out to me, and I have been fine with their declaration, I didn’t care they seem almost surprised. Like they had worked it up in their heads that they might get a bad response and had suffered a long time trying to decide whether to tell me, when to tell me, how to tell me. This, even though I have always been fine with gay, straight, bi, tran, cross, I have never made a negative judgement since I can remember. This is what I meant by the perception of the gay person vs. reality. I realize sometimes people are fine as long as it is not their child, their, brother, their mother, but usually even those people come around and don’t do anything drastic when finding out about their family. For sure there are some people who are completely unnaccepting and the gay person’s fears are very real. I support gay people not coming out to those people, I don’t think everyone has to come out of the closet to everyone. They certainly shouldn’t feel pressure to do it by others.

@JLeslie I’m so glad that my answer made sense to you, I felt like I was struggling to type what I meant! In answer to your question, I wasn’t so surprised because most of my close friends and family are very open minded and don’t seem bothered by another’s sexuality. Also, I think everyone already knew, even before I admitted it to myself. As a child and into my teens I always had posters of female “idols” on my walls that were never replaced by boyband heart throbs as I grew older! For a long time I thought I was gay as I can only recall one crush on a male celebrity as a child and so I was surprised when, at about 18 years old, I started to feel attracted to men as well.

Don’t get me wrong, there are still some people that I won’t admit my sexuality to, my grandmother, for example. She is a great woman in every other respect but she is the kind of homophobe that would never do or say anything to hurt a homosexual person but she is in the “Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve” camp sadly.

I don’t like getting back into a thread after the fact, but occasionally a question will stick with me and I realize later there was something else I wanted to say.

This is one of those questions.

I do not know the reasons why your friend killed himself. He may have become disabled, or painfully ill, or something that actually removed all hope of physical independence. Those would be tough circumstances. I do not want to be presumptuous.

But I will infer that he killed himself because of some sort of unhappiness related to the difficulties in being gay in our particular time and place.

I can’t help think of kids who are dying of leukemia, young people who have been burned and disfigured. I know service buddies who are missing arms and legs and dicks and half their brains.

If life was transferable, like a lease, I bet they would have said to your friend, “Hey guy, if you don’t want it, I’ll take it. I bet I could handle being gay if I could walk or not have people stare at me”.

Not saying it isn’t sad when friends die because it is very sad and I know it, because I have seen it happen. But if the circumstances are as you imply, then it seems sort of like a waste. And I will repeat that it is not my fault.

@josie Interesting. I, too, don’t usually go back but this one stuck with me today.
I spent more time than I’d like to admit looking at statistics. It turns out “attempts” are very different from actual suicides.
Men in their 40s don’t “attempt”. They are usually successful. in 51% of the cases they use firearms to get the job done.
Other groups use riskier methods: pills, cutting, automobiles, etc. Often it is a desperate cry for help.
When a 45 year old man says he going to do it, he does. (Also men over 85!)

If anyone’s interested, we’re having a major battle on our local newspaper’s website over whether being gay is a sin or not, remember I live in the Bible Belt. People are chiming in from all over and schooling the bigots. Join in if you dare…lol Even the preachers are fighting it out now.

http://www.news-leader.com/comments/article/20130501/NEWS01/305010144/springfield-pastors-john-lindell-phil-snyder-nondiscrimination

Statistics may come from all kinds of sources. Some are biased. Some are reliable. Some, sensationalized simply by capturing headlines in the news and labeling incidents as epidemics instead of isolated or complicated (more than one factor leading to suicide). Statistics may be helpful if used to identify risk factors in order to better serve the intended population. Also, they may be helpful to call attention to neglected populations in need of support and other resources.

If 100 gay men, for example, commit suicide due to factors related to being gay while 100 straight men commit suicide due to factors related to being human (depression, financial or relational problems, etc.), regardless of the specific reason, 200 men in this example have committed suicide.

Reasons for committing suicide are complicated and never fully known even if a suicide note has been left behind or a psychiatrist / psychologist serving the individual has been tracking symptoms.

Suicide, regardless of sexual orientation, is a horrible way to end life. Is it selfish? Maybe. Is it a pathetic way to escape problems? Perhaps. Those who have never experienced relentless suicidal thoughts, let alone weak or strong attempts to end one’s life, have no idea the internal turmoil one experiences by having to wrestle with the idea of self-inflicted murder on a regular or cyclic basis.

I have no data to back up this theory, but I personally believe suicidal thoughts, actions, and successful attempts are not due to immature cries for help or selfish, impulsive or thoughtless decisions. I personally believe the whole basis for any self-harming behavior may result from on-going depression, despair, chronic pain (physical and emotional), lack of hope, not having a sense of belonging, nor the skills and support needed to overcome the complexities stimulating suicidal thoughts. **Living with any of these risk factors, in my opinion, requires more personal strength and fortitude than the average person who does not chronically experience these issues will ever understand.** Furthermore, fighting suicidal thoughts and behaviors involves even more strength – more than the amount needed to cope with risk factors. In my personal opinion, the person who succeeds with a suicidal attempt is not a weak person, but a person who has been beaten down and worn out from fighting the good fight to stay alive.

Yes, there are exceptions. Of course there are a few people who impulsively commit suicide because they do not want to face their troubles or consequences of their actions. I’m sure any one of us could find examples. Out of respect to family members of these individuals, I am not going to identity those I know even though they are public members of society. Outliers will always exist, such as individuals who seem to have a perfect life, full of support and success (academic, professional, personal, etc.).

This entire quip has an air of bias, too. I am a lesbian who grew up in a religiously conservative family (risk factor). I have bipolar and have experienced bouts of deep depression (risk factors). I have chronic pain and semi-serious health issues (risk factors). Other risk factors include financial problems, unemployment, disability, chronic loneliness, chronic anxiety, poor self-esteem, morbid obesity (induced from chronic pain and health issues), inability to do favorite activities due to poor health, and other things I may not be aware of which add to the complexity of risk factors. **Even with all these personal risk factors, if I were to commit suicide (which I have no plans to do so), not one specific factor could be blamed because they are all connected with who I am as an individual.**

So, why point out statistics in the first place if they can be biased, circumstantial, and not absolutely reliable?

As stated earlier, statistics serve a purpose. They help to call attention to neglected populations in need of support and other resources. Also, they help to identify risk factors in order to better serve intended populations.

Posted below, these stats serve a purpose. Not to say which population is more likely to have suicidal thoughts or successful attempts, but to call attention to the need for support (in terms of societal acceptance, equality in every sense of the word, reduction of hate crimes and bullying, etc.).

Source: National Center for Biotechnology Information / Groups With Increased Suicide Risk / Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Populations

Studies over the last four decades suggest that LGBT individuals may have an elevated risk for suicide ideation and attempts. Attention to this disparity has been limited, in part because neither the U.S. death certificate nor the NVDRS identify decedents’ sexual orientation or gender identity. Thus, it is not known whether LGBT people die by suicide at higher rates than comparable heterosexual people.

Across many different countries, a strong and consistent relationship between sexual orientation and nonfatal suicidal behavior has been observed. A meta-analysis of 25 international population-based studies found the lifetime prevalence of suicide attempts in gay and bisexual male adolescents and adults was four times that of comparable heterosexual males. Lifetime suicide attempt rates among lesbian and bisexual females were almost twice those of heterosexual females. Lesbian, gay, and bisexual (LGB) adolescents and adults were also found to be almost twice as likely as heterosexuals to report a suicide attempt in the past year. A later meta-analysis of adolescent studies concluded that LGB youth were three times more likely to report a lifetime suicide attempt than heterosexual youth, and four times as likely to make a medically serious attempt. Across studies, 12 to 19 percent of LGB adults report making a suicide attempt, compared with less than 5 percent of all U.S. adults; and at least 30 percent of LGB adolescents report attempts, compared with 8 to 10 percent of all adolescents.

…

Suicidal behaviors in LGBT populations appear to be related to “minority stress,” which stems from the cultural and social prejudice attached to minority sexual orientation and gender identity. This stress includes individual experiences of prejudice or discrimination, such as family rejection, harassment, bullying, violence, and victimization. Increasingly recognized as an aspect of minority stress is “institutional discrimination” resulting from laws and public policies that create inequities or omit LGBT people from benefits and protections afforded others. Individual and institutional discrimination have been found to be associated with social isolation, low self-esteem, negative sexual/gender identity, and depression, anxiety, and other mental disorders. These negative outcomes, rather than minority sexual orientation or gender identity per se, appear to be the key risk factors for LGBT suicidal ideation and behavior. An additional risk factor is contagion resulting from media coverage of LGBT suicide deaths that presents suicidal behavior as a normal, rational response to anti-LGBT bullying or other experiences of discrimination.

In giving my two-cents opinion regarding statistics, I am backing up the point @Hawaii_Jake has made by posting in the first place. It does matter when any marginalized member of society steps out as a role model, whether the individual is a public figure or a private person. It matters when someone with bipolar comes out, because mental health continues to carry a stigma. It matters when someone with fibromyalgia comes out, because this disease does not hold the same respect as other diseases easily measured with medical testing. It matters when someone who has had an abortion comes out, because some members of society would rather condemn the mother than provide support. It matters when any “imperfect, abnormal, unusual, or unacceptable” member of society comes out, because the majority tends to judge on the basis on perfection. Being human matters.

Wonderful will be the day when no one is marginalized because of some “defect, difference, or imperfection,” and any suicide is viewed as a societal epidemic worth preventing instead of an issue associated with a specific population.

Relevant.

From the article:

Those who don’t like the celebrations of Collins’ bravery have countered with aggressive, prideful lack of interest. They don’t say, “I hate this.” Rather, they really want us to know how much they really don’t care.