Ethical question and personal details?

It’s what separates us from the animals. Humanity at its best values and nurtures its weak. We don’t kick our sick out of the nest to die. We find value in them and come together, sacrificing to help the weaker.
I know it sometimes seems that in the USA we tend to get so focused on rugged individuality. We don’t always live up to our best self, but I choose to believe that as a species we will rise above and be better than our base instincts and value and protect the vulnerable among us.

You are sick, not worthless. No one can say what good you might go on to do in the world with your continued survival. I’m not talking about curing cancer or some super heroic deed, either. Just the good you may do in your everyday life, by simply being alive. Who knows what ripples in this big old pond may come from the pebbles you drop?

The same is true of the person in the burning building, too. Of everyone, really.

A person is so much more than their body.

Even in this day, when we feel almost entitled to look at a person’s outward appearance and judge them mercilessly without knowing so much as their name, we still are aware that we are more than that which makes us up.

We have a mind. We have thoughts, feelings, ideas that are our very own. And we know that for every person lost, something precious and irreplaceable goes with them. And when that light goes out, it goes forever.

I don’t know what is in your mind or your heart. I don’t know who wakes up every morning thinking of you. I don’t know which person you’ll meet ten years hence, or the words you say that will change their lives forever.

We don’t have a promise of tomorrow, but I think that giving someone else the gift of the possibility of tomorrow is the greatest gift one could give. And however that gift is given – through a bit of time and a bit of pain to donate blood, with a few days’ or weeks’ healing and a cool scar to donate a kidney or part of a liver – that is an honourable gift.

I do not believe the world is pre-ordained, or that our lives have an ultimate destiny. Some of us got a really bad lot in life. Having a bum organ doesn’t make you less worthy of life. It just means you had a bit of bad luck.

Besides, think of the donor: If they don’t give up an organ, they’re giving up the world’s best pickup line!

Hot chick at beach: “Hey, where’d you get that scar?”
Donor Dude: “Well, I donated a kidney to this-”sex

Seriously. Do you want to deny them that?

@rosehips You are an extremely valuable member of the collective. Mother Nature gave you more crap to deal with than usual but you’ve always been someone I considered tough, strong, and very very caring. Where is the site of the surgery when you get it? And I believe you will get it. We can work a lot of angles to find you a caregiver. Don’t let that be the thing that holds you back. And @Seek_Kolinahr just gave me another incentive to work on it. I hope the place is near a beach. I’d sit down there, working on my laptop while you relax, and women ask what I’m doing. “Oh I’m caring for my friend that just had a transplant” Instant heart melt. I probably don’t even have to work any further to get some action. Your friend, Bob. :)

Wow. That’s a lot of questions.

On the practical side… your transplant program should have a social worker. I think you need to schedule a face-to-face appointment with that person and discuss all possibilities for a caregiver. Go to the meeting with a list of ALL family members and close friends. Discuss their work/family/obligation situations. The social worker will be able to help you.

On the metaphysical side… you are worth it. Family help others. Friends help others. Coworkers help others. You have helped others. Now you need help. If you are feeling worthless, maybe you are depressed. Take a breath. Take a step back. Breathe again. It will all be OK.

Um Thank you all for every touching thing you said today. I will ponder this at work.

Respond in detail later.

We are all made stronger when the strong reach back to pull the weak along. Your contribution to society has much more to do with your mind than your muscles. And even the strongest of us has to know that we might be next to face just what you’re facing. By committing to help you in your hour of need, the able bodied are making an investment in having someone there to help them if they are next.

@rosehips I’m sorry that you have to deal with all that, truly.

One thing I will say, is that only you can decide to give up and sink slowly into oblivion, or you can fight with every particle of your being, especially mentally.

When my mom was diagnosed with Stage 4 breast cancer, she almost gave up. Tired, drained from chemo and radiation, couldn’t eat, nauseous, couldn’t clean up or color her hair, or even work for a few months. It was hard, and at one point, I told her to let me know when she decided she was done fighting and ready to go, and we’d make decisions.

As her only child, I can tell you that it was very sad, very difficult, and the thought of her leaving this world to go to Heaven, broke my heart, but more than that, seeing her battle the disease and praying constantly to God to take her pain, was almost more than I could bear.

I’m sure there are people in your life who value you, we do here on fluther as well. I’m not sure you’re religious, but either way, we’re all here as part of a Divine plan. Maybe someday you’ll be able to help someone, or save someone’s life, or if you make it through this, you can plan to spend the rest of your life in service to others like my mom. Either way, you are valuable, but I respect your right to decide for yourself whether your life is worth the challenges and pain. Peace.

You are worth saving. No matter how hard it seems right now, or less than perfect (your life) you are special and I know that :)

@rosehips Comedian Tig Notaro has been through a lot. Before a recent appearance on Conan, she listed off her travails as follows: “I got pneumonia, and then I contracted this life-threatening, deadly illness called C. diff., and it’s this bacteria that just eats your intestines. I was in the hospital for a week, lost 20 lbs…and then it was my birthday a couple days after the hospital…. A few days after that, my mother passed away unexpectedly…a freak accident…. I got off of a relationship shortly after that, and then I was diagnosed with cancer…. This was all in four months.”

Here she is on Conan O’Brien’s show after her double mastectomy. Watch, and I think you’ll find strength in her humor.

Despite my lack of warmth this morning and my delayed response I peeked frequently at this thread all days and took solace in it, though on an emotional rollercoaster. I wanted to process this a little before I could attempt a worthy response I am not sure I will succeed… Anything would be a step up from my death warmed over frozen message this morning. Oft used adage that has become increasingly real and humorous. If things start getting easier your going downhill.

@Judi Your belief makes you shine. I love that there are believers that penetrate through the fogs. I might in this case struggle with accepting it. But it still is beautiful.

@augustlan Dear lady, you are quite the pillar of restraint not to lay me flat for my callous questions.

You are right we don’t know the future and in matters of choice life and death there are always a cost and benefit to unknowns. All I can do is make a decision I believe is right because I will have to stand behind it for the rest of my life.
I thought this turning point where gathering info assessing and figuring out if I was made of the right stuff to do this would come later.

However if I choose to risk others welfare, whether it is financial, emotional, or physical and it seems like it might be all three to benefit myself I better be prepared to fight every step of the way. Which seems melodramatic maybe I am being irrational.

@Seek_Kolinahr You have a very lyrical passionate method of writing. A style that embodies warmth, and intelligence with a hint of romanticism and grandness. It is very beautiful, charming and persuasive.

@Adirondackwannabe Bob, you are truly an impressive man. I haven’t been here a year but you have stood up among the crowd, I can think of several instances including but not limited to a goose, where you helped others out. I don’t know what your story is but I am sure it is fascinating.

I thank you for your kind offer it is humbling. Part of my problem is I have an independant streak as far as the eye can see. I have problems asking for or receiving help or expressing gratitude. I have been working on it but I wasn’t ready for the big leagues test on this one.

@Cupcake I can do practical. Ok yes I have a case manager she is the one who gave me the bad news yesterday. But I was rushed between work and appts. And my illusion that if I did everything perfect I could get away with just a week or two of downtime a month tops and if I needed help my insurance should cover attendent care.

I am sure I am not the only person who faced this problem and if I present the limitations of the people in my life maybe we can agree to cobble together a network. Or something reasonable. Most people do work and no one is allowed that much time off work. I will wait until I have found out more details into options to make a final decision.

I realize now that a huge part of my fear derives not from them saying “no” but not willing or guilty to say no. That it will put them through hardships that I can’t help them recover from. My network is small I have always been an introvert but the sicker I get the more I isolate. So while I know quite a few people only a handful are close enough to ask that of and I know all of them are overextended on some level.

@ETpro You have a rational way of distilling insightful thoughts that are usually highly emotionally charged. I can almost believe it is natural to ask more of others. Thank you for link I will probably watch it multiple times and she is definitely on my radar now. Humor is always a good route to go.

@KNOWITALL I am sorry to hear about your mother is sounds as if you handled it as well as could be accepted.

Thank you for recognizing that each day getting up can be a battle and that I am being hit from all sides. There is no easy and it will only get worse. Having choice doesn’t mean you have to or should take it.

I won’t be able to help others like your mother regardless of the outcome. If I get through this I need to be surrounded by life not death and sickness. I have already seen enough people die in my lifetime to know that though painful for almost all involved it is natural.
I don’t have it in me. I want to experience something beyond that should I extend my life span. Which considering the life expentancy of some is more then a lot of people were granted. So I don’t feel cheated.

@LornaLove Thanks for the encouragment. Seems like your handle is a good match for you. : )

Thanks all for letting me talk this through. Though ya’ll do seem to be very onesided on the issue. : )

It really helps to be able to speak freely and bounce ideas around. Let go of some of the fog… Love you guys.

We love you back, @rosehips. :)

I wish I could be of help. I live in southern Alberta, Canada and have no car so unless you need someone from a place to which I can get, I might not be of any help to you. If by some chance we live close by, contact me and let’s see what can happen. Since I am on long-term disability, my time is not constrained onther than by my dogs’ needs to be fed.

Sweet dreams. You will be missed.

Goodbye, friend.

RIP. You were a great jelly here.

Alas, another light lost. Goodbye, RoseHips. Goodbye, Unbroken.

Goodbye sweet girl.

Goodbye Rosehips. I’ll miss you. You remain unbroken.

@Unbroken Rosehips…. I know I’m sending this out to the ether but I feel better doing it.

I was just going through the containers of hickory and black walnuts I collect every year from my woods and you flashed into my head.
I thought of you tossing some of my black walnuts into the woods like Johnny Walnut Seed spreading nuts that will turn into magnificent Black walnut trees 100 years from now. .
I hope you enjoyed the experience.

Why do we feel compelled to risk strong people to help weaker people? Does it make us feel morally upright, is this a pure emotion, irrational thing? Does it weaken or strengthen society? Just because we know how to potentially save some one should we?
In a world that just is, it doesn’t make sense, hardly any species in the animal kingdom would risk the health of the collective for the weakest link, who would need to be saved from the lion’s mouth again and again (no pun intended). If one only has one trip through this cracker barrel, then to waste, squander, or bypass any opportunity to gain would border foolishness; time is a commodity one would not have as a luxury. Why humans do it is to feel like we are better than animals, more than selfish savages, in short, a good feeling ego stroke. How it might weaken society as a whole or in insignificant measures, I guess that would depend on how much effort of the stronger people are tied up to support the weaker ones. If you are the weaker people it is natural you want the help of the stronger people because everyone (in healthy mental state) wants to survive.

I guess if you don’t have any body in this life you aren’t worth saving.. lol
No one, even those with someone is not worth saving, just because a person has maybe a responsibility, should they pass, it is not like who they are caring for will crumble away and be gone as if they are the lynch pin to that person’s life.

In another example: If there is one person stuck in a burning building and firefighters have to go and save that person and one dies in the process but saves another is it worth it?
Those who willingly make themselves available for such task know the risk, so if one is saved at their expense, it was an outcome they knew of and was willing to take.

Would not the person willing to sacrifice their life for another be a more valuable asset to the collective?
In a metaphysical way maybe, but in an actual way, no, If you exchange one stronger player for a weaker one no matter how chivalrous the reason, you are left with a member who can’t do as much. You but have to watch the show Survivor to see how keeping a weaker someone you like over getting rid of a stronger person you don’t leaves your tribe weaker, and at point, wiped out by the other tribe.

@HC. You do know that she has passed on don’t you?

^ No….I have no ideal who has what medically going on, or who is still here or not. My condolences, all i can offer now. Maybe something to help future people wondering by this old thread…...

In the future, you might consider reading the thread before posting something as disgustingly heartless as you just did.

^ Yeah, yeah, I send flowers you will attest they were poison oak….whatever…..

HC .
You didn’t know the backstory and were looking at it from your perspective.

She was an extrememy perceptive individual and struggled for a long time as her disease took over. The clock was running and she worried she would be a burden.
She was a beautiful person and is missed.

^ The clock was running and she worried she would be a burden.
And I was attempting to point out a imagined burden may not be a real burden, as some are a burden but never see themselves as one, and vice versa.

She was a beautiful person and is missed.
Have no doubt she is missed by plenty of people. However, I am not in the ”loop” of what goes on in the personal lives with most Flutheronians, if I had to use past experiences that is how many want it anyhow. I can only go by what I know, or don’t know. I am not trying to make light of a problem, how can I when I don’t even know it is a problem.