What are the rules (in your mind) regarding handicap accessible stalls in public restrooms?

The way I see it, having accessible stalls does not mean you have first claim. It merely means you have been given an accomodation.

It’s difficult because my first impulse would be to yield to the handicapped person, but I understand that some handicapped people want equal treatment, not special treatment, so it’s difficult to know how to proceed.

Basically, I’d yield to them unless they asked me to go ahead.

She has no right to cut just because she is handicapped and has to use that stall, but I would probably let her go first if dealt with that situation. Then again, I am a guy so I would probably not be in the ladies’ room in the first place.

IMHO, the lady on wheels was out of line. Personally, unless I was about to urinate on myself, I would have told her to go ahead as soon as the stall was opened before she had a chance to raise a stink. I was raised that way. I just recently started using them. I am 51 years old. When I say recently, i mean since September when my granddaughter moved near us. I take her in the larger wheelchair accessible stalls because it is easier with the extra room for the two of us to maneuver around.

At first, I felt weird. Now, I do it even by myself without a second thought. I like that you have your own sink too. That is so cool. Who knew?

I would probably offer the accessible stall to the person in the chair; but if I had to go urgently, I might have taken it anyway, but apologized in the process.

I agree with @josie. I might be disposed to let someone in a wheelchair use the stall before me if I wasn’t desperately in need of the facilities, and I wouldn’t use an accessible stall if there were others open, but I don’t think I have a duty to let someone behind me in line go before me. That’s the purpose of a line, after all: to get people in and out in an orderly fashion.

I’ve seen some go so far as to suggest that no one ever use the accessible stalls except those who specifically need them. This strikes me as unreasonably excessive, particularly in the case of a crowded bathroom. While I have no problem with accommodating those who have different needs, leaving a stall open when there is a line simply because someone who can only use that stall might show up is irrational.

Once we accept this logic, however, we can see that the actual presence of a person who can only use the accessible stall changes nothing. We would have to say that whether or not it is acceptable for you to use the accessible stall rests entirely upon whether or not someone who can only use that stall shows up while you are using it, which is to say that it relies on luck. Those in wheelchairs must make allowances for the possibility that they’ll have to wait in line just like everyone else. Otherwise, what will they do when they find themselves in a line of wheelchair-bound people?

I don’t think other people are prohibited from using the stalls for people with a disability. They are there because the ordinary toilets are inaccessible. I think the lady in the chair was out of line (literally).

I would probably look to see if there was anyone in a wheelchair waiting to use the loo if it had been me but other than that, perhaps the lady in the queue has a bladder problem? Perhaps her need was greater. I don’t know that being in a wheelchair means you have limited bladder control? Perhaps that is more likely and I’m sure someone will edumacate me if that is likely.

I use the disabled loo on our floor fairly often. It’s a bit more private and nobody else does! We also don’t have anyone on our floor that’s in a wheelchair. So it sits there unused.

I would say the person not on wheels should not use that toilet at all. Because some people using it have special bags they need to empty, or they do not have the brainpower to hold on. This was like my mom she would suddenly shout toilet and pee.

You know, in all my years of using restrooms in theaters, department stores, libraries, restaurants, and most of all workplaces, I have never once been in line with a wheelchair user. But it is my conviction that the “accessible” stall isn’t reserved for the wheelchair user. It’s available to the wheelchair user. I think it goes to whoever is next in line, by rights, although I also think it would be a natural courtesy for whoever’s next to offer it to the person who couldn’t use the regular stalls.

I also think an uncontainable urgency counts as an emergency and trumps the claim of someone who’s sitting down. I have been in that spot myself when I was talking meds that gave me a really short fuse, and I’ve had some scarily close calls in public settings.

You have a way with words, @Jeruba. It “isn’t reserved for the wheelchair user. It’s available to the wheelchair user.” Nicely put.

It took me so many years to realize that the handicapped sign meant that the stall was accessible to wheelchair and NOT that those stalls were for handicapped people only. I don’t think I’ve been in line with someone handi-capped when the issue came up. If someone up to 4 or five places back, who had to have the special booth and the next stall that opened up for me was a handicapped booth, I’d offer it to her.
And I’d assumed that the sign means physically unable to use a regular booth. If it’s available for you and no one else obviously needs it use it. (And I’d personally include mothers with kids 4 and under as needing it more than I.)
otoh, There are times I may ask for early access . . .my timing was wrong!

I feel it would have been a nice gesture for the woman who is able to use any stall to yield to the woman who could only use just that one stall, but not a necessity. The woman in the wheelchair was pretty out of line!

My logic is that the person in the front of the line should have the next access to a toilet. So when someone in a wheelchair is in the front of the line, they should have access. Since they can only access the wheelchair-accessible toilet, I think the people in line before them should consider if the wheelchair-accessible toilet will be available by the time that person reaches the front of the line.

It goes like this… if I will be awhile, I should let the person on wheels go before me. If I will be very quick and they will not have to wait an inordinate amount of time (since they only have the option of the accessible stalls), I can go ahead.

Mathematics rule here. If the average wait for an available stall is 20 seconds, then the wheelchair-accessible stall should be available to the person in a wheelchair approximately 20 seconds after they reach the front of the line.

It is really only the handful of people right before the wheelchair-bound person who need to make such a consideration. Those who will be done before the person in the wheelchair is due to reach the front of the line can use any stall they choose.

Might I add… when pregnant, my belly was so large that I usually needed the wheelchair accessible stall. I also needed to pee urgently. Not all “disabilities” are obvious. The lady was out of line and rude by expecting others to cater to her, but others could have let her ahead or explained that they would be very quick.

My 2 cents

I made two very different statements in my last comment… so I wanted to clarify.

Anyone can use handicap accessible stalls. Some people prefer them. Some are more comfortable or fit better. Others prefer them so that they can bring their children in with them, or maybe change a diaper.

The distinction to me is that the person in a wheelchair does not have the option to use another stall. This may also be true for others. If you cannot use another stall… you should be able to use the handicap-accessible stall when it is your turn.

This becomes awkward when your need to use the handicap-accessible stall is not obvious to others.

Your desperate need to urinate does not give you priority, because you could use other stalls. Perhaps the person in a wheelchair also has a desperate need. Statistically, they are at a major disadvantage then, since they only can use accessible stalls. If you desperately need to urinate and are right in front of someone in a wheelchair, you should let the person in a wheelchair know that you are in desperate need and that you will be quick… and ask if they object to you using the accessible stall.

If you are not at the front of the line and desperately need a stall, whether in a wheelchair or not, you should let others ahead of you know and ask if they object to you using a stall before them.

If it is open and I need to defecate, I use it,

Unlike a parking space, a handicapped john is a temporary seating place, not a multi-hour occupancy.

The handicapped sign on the door means that it is wide. Not that it is reserved.

Yes, if nobody is around I always use the big stalls. haha
Hey…it is nice to be able to turn around without your skirt falling in the freakin’ toilet. I figure if a truly handicapped person is waiting they will only be waiting a few extra seconds and just because you are handicapped doesn’t mean you can’t wait a few extra seconds like regular people have to.

Being handicapped doesn’t mean you are incontinent too. lol

I tend not to use the handicapped stalls unless I have to. I want to make sure it’s open if someone who needs it comes along. In a big line with no obvious disabilities present, I’ll use one.

If I were in line ahead of a wheelchair bound person – even if they weren’t directly behind me – I’d offer them the stall since they can’t use another one. In a multi-stall bathroom, I figure I’ve got multiple chances of a regular stall opening up quickly. The wheelchair user only has one chance of the stall he needs opening up quickly once he’s at the head of the line.

Like regular people…@Coloma? I love you and know you did not mean that the way it sounded.

Why did I say “he”? Why am I in the men’s room? Haha.

^^^ Haha.. True, not meant in a derogatory way, for lack of a better expression. :-)

I just asked my husband about the men’s room handicapped acessible accomadations. He said he never…never ever uses the handicapped urinals because the are so low it splashes on your legs. Yuck

PS I do not like the word handicapped. What is the nonoffesive better sounding, more accurate word? Everytime I type it I cringe a little. It does not feel right.

@bkcunningham I tend to go with disabled.

@bkcunningham I think that those lowered urinals are for children.

If a handicap person is waiting they always get priority. It’s not like they can wait in line and go in the “next available.”

@bkcunningham, I use “wheelchair user.” You can’t necessarily tell if a person is handicapped or disabled or what the mobility problem is. Some conditions are more conspicuous than others. But you can tell that the person is in a wheelchair, and I think that’s all you really need to know.

@augustlan…We know you like to frequent the men’s restrooms :P

I am and can be accomodating to anybody with any need (even if it’s just that they’re on the verge of peeing in their pants because they waited too long). However, if someone is going to be rude and pushy and demanding, then all bets are off, no matter who they are.

What I found interesting about the discussion on the other board is the woman who behaved so rudely got very indignant when anyone (able bodied or disabled) had the nerve to tell her she was rude. She claimed that she believed these stalls should be first come first serve, but felt completely justified in being so incredibly rude to this woman.

I tend to agree with all of the comments here. If there was a line in a restroom and the handicapped stall came open, I would use it unless there was someone else in line behind me who obviously needed it or if I was asked politely. I just don’t get the rudeness. But then again this woman was consistently rude and obnoxious in her posts so I guess that is just the way some people are.

Everyone has pretty much said it all!

I generally use the disabled stall whenever possible because I have to use a catheter and being able to wash my hands immediately beforehand is important. Not all disabilities involve a wheelchair and if I see someone else in line that’s not sitting in one, I don’t assume they’re able to use an ordinary stall. That said, I have never seen a queue at any disabled stall.

In that particular scenario I think the woman in the wheelchair was rude, and if she’d been more polite then maybe the one in front of her would have yielded.

I have never seen an accessible stall with its own sink. Is this a common feature?

I’ve never seen on either. I’ve never seen anyone in a wheelchair in the bathroom either.

I’ve seen handicapped stalls with sinks in them, but it seems less and less common these days.

I wish women with more than one child under the age of 8 would qualify for handicap parking.

@Dutchess_III I am going to have to disagree with you there and I am speaking as a mom who for a while had three children under the age of 8. If my husband does not park in a spot with room to drop his lift, he literally cannot get out of of his van. That means that if there are no handicapped spots available he has to park at the very end of the lot where there are two spots open next to each other and either take up both spots or hope that no one parks next to him. He has had to push through snow, rain, puddles, and super heat to get to the door. The weather always presents a problem because he cannot control his body temperature so he gets overheated or super cooled very easily.

Sure it was a pain to shuttle my kids across the parking lot, but we had very strict rules that were non-negotiable and I am pleased to say none of my kids has ever been hit by a car (in a parking lot or elsewhere) nor have they had any close calls.

There is a difference between parking and bathroom stalls because typically a bathroom stall is used for a very short period of time whereas parking can be an all day affair.

The first time I ever saw a parking space dedicated to a pregnant woman, I thought to myself, ‘What!? They should have your parking at the rear of the lot and make you walk through an obstacle course of toys and spilled food to prepare you for what’s ahead.’

Before my Mom died, she was wheelchair bound. She and my dad refused to get a handicap parking pass even though her doctors offered to give her the proper paperwork. I’d have to park in the front of the store if it was raining, let her out and then park the car. I’d do the reverse to get her back in the car. If it wasn’t raining, we just parked far away and I pushed her. It was easier with two of us taking her some place. Either way, I had a firsthand respect for handicap parking spaces and what their real purpose.

I agree with what you’re saying @SuperMouse. I was actually thinking of when I ran daycare and had about a million children with me! I didn’t go out often, but when I did it was a little hairy, strict rules not withstanding. My son got hit by a car once, when he was 13. Just one more accident in a long line of accidents with him! I’m just glad he’s still with us!

I have never seen a parking space dedicated to a pregnant woman. That’s just ridiculous.

I was going to Babys-R-Us when I saw the first one. But Wegman’s grocery store and many other places have them now. It was pouring rain and I was soooo tempted to use that space. I didn’t but I thought, they need a space for menopausal women. Somewhere close to the entrance with a marker so you won’t forget where you parked, with air conditioning for the hot flashes and with carnival mirrors along the way that made your ass look smaller.

lolll!

Parking stalls for pregnant women are very common here. We see them at most department stores and many grocery stores.

Why would a pregnant woman need special parking?

Where I live (Northeast region of US) parking for pregnant women/people with infants is common.

Also, many bathroom stalls for handicapped have their own sinks (two prominent places I can think of offhand are Costco and Disney World. It makes sense when you think about it.

But why would a pregnant woman need special parking? We aren’t handicapped, just pregnant! And does she have a decal on her plate for it?

It is a disability, @Dutchess_III.

Says who? How do they figure that?

In researching @Dutchess_III‘s question, I found a variety of articles relating to the whether or not pregnancy is covered under the ADA. It seems (correct me if I’m mistaken) that pregnancy is not considered a disability, but complications related to pregnancy are and can be. Therefore, a pregnant woman would and could and should be getting special parking.

Hmmm. Do they get a decal on their car or something to hang on their RV mirror?

@Dutchess_III: No, it’s the honor system.

@jca Call me oblivious but I live in New England and have never once seen a parking spot reserved for pregnant women.

@SavoirFaire many accessibility stalls here have their own sink. Usually with special taps too. Certainly all the ones on my campus have a sink.

When you go on maternity leave, it is considered a disability.

From the above source:

Pregnancy, Maternity & Parental Leave
Under the PDA, an employer that allows temporarily disabled employees to take disability leave or leave without pay, must allow an employee who is temporarily disabled due to pregnancy to do the same.

An employer may not single out pregnancy-related conditions for special procedures to determine an employee’s ability to work. However, if an employer requires its employees to submit a doctor’s statement concerning their ability to work before granting leave or paying sick benefits, the employer may require employees affected by pregnancy-related conditions to submit such statements.

Further, under the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) of 1993, a new parent (including foster and adoptive parents) may be eligible for 12 weeks of leave (unpaid or paid if the employee has earned or accrued it) that may be used for care of the new child. To be eligible, the employee must have worked for the employer for 12 months prior to taking the leave and the employer must have a specified number of employees. See http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs28.htm.

I appreciate the protection the FMLA provides, but it’s too bad they have to call it a “disability.” My goodness! Some one should have told me to quit playing tennis right up until I delivered ‘cause I was disabled!

I was buffing floors in a hospital with a swing buffer 12 hours before my second one was born. At the time it was considered a manly profession so I got some doozie comments.

We all know of people, perhaps including ourselves, who were active until the day we delivered. However, we also all know people who suffered painful and debilitating problems while pregnant. It’s for those people that the courtesies for pregnancy are given in light of.

@dxs: I said the spots were for pregnant women/people with infants. I didn’t say the spots were exclusively for pregnant women. Next time I see one I’ll take a pic and post it here. I just googled “Parking spots pregnant women” and there are many links about it. It’s called “stork parking.” Who knew that? I didn’t.

@Bellatrix Interesting. I wonder if it’s more common outside of the US.

FWIW, all three of my pregnancies were very disabling to me. Kidney disease and pregnancy do not mix well. Too bad they all occurred before ‘stork parking’ became common!

@jca It’s the same here, ours are for parents with infants…as well as pregnant women.

Stalls large enough for wheelchairs, walkers and multiply people with their own sinks are very common in the US.

Sometimes the diaper changing table is in the handicap accessible stalls. I’ve seen that more often than sinks.

My writing skills are lacking this morning. Sorry about the sentence structure in the above post.

LOL! I thought it was fine till you posted that ^^^^ so I reread it…yep. It is annoying as hell when you get multiple people with their own sinks all crowd into one stall!

I carry one with me at all times. LOL

At one restaurant I know, the handicapped stall also houses three urinals.

Why do they make the guys pee out in front of every one?

@bkcunningham But where? I’ve never seen one, and I’ve travelled through most of the US. Just curious.

The US is a big place, @SavoirFaire. There are many places where people carry their sinks with them. ~

Choking!!

@SavoirFaire I’ve never seen one, either. Maybe we’re just not observant. ~

Here people. This was taken in Kansas.

@augustlan Well, apparently we need to start checking people’s purses and backpacks!

One of my favorite things about Fluther – sometimes threads take on a life of their own.

ROFLMAO!! @Dutchess_III

Apparently the people that run the MBTA (public transit system) in Boston have given this some thought. Their position seems to be that so long as nobody is around that needs special accommodation, then everything is on a first-come, first-served basis. But on the trains and buses, there are seats that fold up to make room for those in a wheelchair or pushing a baby stroller. These are complete with locking mechanisms to secure the wheeled vehicle during the ride. If someone on board needs that space, those already sitting there are required to get up and yield it, even if it means they must stand for the rest of the ride. There are also seats near the doors that say “Please yield seat to elderly riders”. Anyone can use them unless there is an elderly rider aboard, a heavily pregnant woman, or someone who needs to sit, in which case the more able-bodied rider is expected to yield the seat. Refuse to do so, and the driver will summon the MBTA police to enforce the rules.

In the case of the handicapped stall, there are two imperatives in play, and it’s hard to know how to balance them. The best way to handle it would have been for the two women to discuss how badly each needed to go. Bladder or bowel pressure could easily elevate the able bodied person’s need above that of the person who is wheelchair bound. But if both had an equal need to go, then the handicapped stall should be reserved for the person that can only use it, and the able-bodied woman should wait for one of the walk-in stalls to become available.