Is there a compelling reason why the the US of A needs to persist?

I would suggest that the U.S. become a loose confederacy like Canada. I would support northern states joining Canada. I have many years experience working with and for Canadians and even claimed to be Canadian when I was abroad and Bush was president.

It looks like another Bush is lining up to run for the presidency. States should be able to secede rather than subjecting themselves to the Bush oligarchy.

Let the West Coast become a part of Canada. We’ll take ya!

The costs to big businesses would be huge.

As long as they agree to give up their nukes, I’m all for it. Otherwise, I’m not sure it’s such a good idea to have such a large piece of undiluted crazy be a sovereign nation.

@Mama_Cakes don’t forget us north easterners, many of us would like to be the southern part of Ontario, or Quebec.

Big business is not of any concern to me.

@Ron_C Okay. Deal. We just don’t want the South.

@Mama_Cakes Now we just have to arm wrestle over whether he’s coming to Quebec or Ontario.

@tinyfaery Congress might be somewhat concerned.

The compelling reason for the USA to break up is for the well being of the rest of the world, not the well-being of the USA. Still, culturally, Anglo North America should be a few vertical countries rather than two horizontal countries.

Anyway, Canada has Harper, who pretty much has most of Bush’s negative points. So screw that.

I support the old Confederacy being kicked out, and the border secured the way Berlin was. That way, the fanatical Evangelicals who support trickle-up economics can keep their stronghold while no longer posing a danger to the US.

@Ron_C Shoot for Ontario. You really don’t want to be part of Quebec, and last I checked many Quebecois don’t want Quebec to be a part of Canada either.

We’re different, but that’s part of our strengths. Plus the resources of the whole country are so much greater than each little piece. When super storm Sandy hit the east coast resources came from all over the nation to help out. Imagine NYS trying to handle that. No, keep the USA together, but educate the population better to understand diversity and why it’s a good thing.

@bolwerk “Anyway, Canada has Harper, who pretty much has most of Bush’s negative points. ”

Yep, that is the awful truth.

We would not have the clout in the world if we were just a bunch of smaller groupings of states.

Americans as portrayed by the media seem to be so unhappy with how their government fails to function as they expect that it should. As an outsider I can see why they might feel that way.
It may be a real struggle to sustain a nation defined and locked into a political framework in the middle to late 18th century. So often arguments about what the framers of the constitution had in mind appear to focus on their ideas as if ideas and goals of 21st century Americans would necessarily be inferior to that collection of men who owned slaves and considered women as their inferiors.

I can see many reasons for all who live within the boundaries to participate in redefining the country in terms of modern concepts and realities. If that country south of Canada wants to persists over the long run, they need to redefine their common principles and values and the process by which their government is selected and how it operates. That may put an end to antiquated structures such as the Electoral College. Some of the original principles that were declared in the constitution have yet to be implemented. Isn’t it time for all persons to be treated as though they are all in fact equal.

Imagine the possibilities!

California could be a country of its own with much political clout. CA has a larger economy than almost every other country. ⅓ of the worlds food comes from CA. The entertainment business and the tech industries are huge.

Even without OR and WA, CA could quickly become a super power.

@Adirondackwannabe International humanitarian relief is still on the table, and the US economy would thrive if not for being dragged down by a group of states that take more money than they give.

@Dr_Lawrence What common principles does the US have though? “All humans are equal” is irreconcilable with “Fuck the poor; they are lazy and poor by choice!”. You cannot have a Christian nation that criminalizes homosexuality and suppresses science while also having freedom for all and being innovative enough to remain a world leader in knowledge.
If we want to persist over the long run, we need to do something about this cancer we are afflicted with. We need to get rid of what is poisoning us and holding us back.
By the same token, I have no interest in mass arrests, civil war, or anything like that, so I thing a peaceful split is best. Let them have their nation, prosper or fail on their own merit, and allow the new-and-improved US to move from the 19th century (robber barons, Church rule, white male superiority…) to the 21st.

I’d divide the country in thirds: West Coast, the flyover states and the South, and Northeast from Northern Virginia up to and including Maine.

And I’d just have three large states, not all the little ones. The current states could be super counties.

Alaska can go off on its own. Hawaii gets to be with California.

I’m torn between being strong as one or self support. Missouri could self sustain I believe, we kind of thrive on it.

@glacial and @Mama_Cakes I live in northern Pennsylvania and can travel to Toronto faster than to Pittsburgh so Pennsylvania would join Ontario, Vermont would join Quebec, and Main would join New Brunswick. I have no use for the south; they don’t even speak our language.

@KNOWITALL. Same with Vermont, so move to where the cool people are.

@Ron_C Unless there is a peace treaty I am unaware of, VT and Quebec would be a bad pairing. Both have secessionist tendencies, so it’d be contentious at best.

@jerv – Quebec stopped the separatist movement and the people I’ve met from Vermont had no problem living with a french speaking province, in fact most of them spoke a mixture of French and English at home.

Since Canada is already a confederacy, Vermont could leave whenever the majority felt like seperating.

@Ron_C It’s been a while since I left, so I shouldn’t be surprised things changed in recent years. Were the Vermonters you met from up North though? I didn’t run into many French-speaking Vermonters growing up in the Southern end of the state.

This thread has kind of trailed off…

Any reason why the states need to be united? Are we all just to complacent to give a damn that half of the country drags the other half down.

I’m not sure I buy that the dragging down happens along regional lines so much. It’s just the poison politics that happens along regional lines. Red state residents may be more dependent on government services, but those red states contain a lot of ex-blue staters who moved to red states to enjoy their entitlements at a lower cost – people who paid into things like social security, in benign cases.

I see a couple of potential problems with separating the country. Natural resources tend to be different from state to state, so that might cause trade issues between the states. As you said, California grows a lot of our food, and other states have near monopolies on other types of resources. I could see it costing a whole lot more without the Feds. Then there’s the military…without a central command, it might get pretty chaotic. What if another country deploys their whole army to attack California? California would be in trouble unless other states decided to help them, you know? And what about immigration? Would it be easy to move, or are you stuck wherever you happen to live at the time of the divide?

At most, I could see us dividing the country in two (blue states and red states). Even then, though, some of the same issues apply. I’d be happy enough to let individual states secede if they want to, I think. Let them bear the costs of doing so, all on their own.

@augustlan The South is already dividing the country. They are begging to be either kicked out or fought against. Lets do the peaceful thing and let them go.

The U.S. is a patchwork quilt of unique states, almost all of which feel that they are the ‘best one’ (OK, maybe we don’t hear much bragging from Mississippi or, say….Kansas, but still).

Like a family full of self-involved siblings, we insult and throw things at each other, occasionally go crying to “Mom” (Washington), and all wonder how “those idiots” could possibly like living where they do.

But whenever crunch-time comes, we are there for each other, up to and including laying down our lives for that “cracker” from the South, or for the “Guido” from New York. We’ve all seen this in the movies and trust me, it is real….I have personally seen it.

Mrs. Apple and I happen to be on Day 12 of a five-week driving tour of the U.S. Absolutely glorious. Every country on Earth has things to be proud or ashamed of. We are far from perfect, but I try to remember every single day how no-effort lucky I was just to be born here.

P.S. Alright, just in case y’all DO break it up, today I’m officially applying for citizenship in…...Colorado…..
.

@augustlan: NATO pretty much shows you can have an effective transnational defense system.

I really doubt many U.S. states aren’t capable of growing enough food to sustain themselves. For that matter, few countries are. Nutritional deprivation is largely caused by economic problems, not lack of resources. For that matter, so what if Vermont can’t grow oranges? First world countries without warm weather food products do what U.S. states without them do: import.

[mod says] Let’s stick to answering the question, folks. Please remember: This question is in the General Section. Responses must be helpful and on-topic.

No, there is no good reason for it

Good luck getting Texas to side with anyone North, South or West (East is right out). We will want to be our own country again.

@jerv “What common principles does the US have though? “All humans are equal” is irreconcilable with “Fuck the poor; they are lazy and poor by choice!”. ” You can reconcile it if you add the word “created” into the first phrase.

@marinelife “We would not have the clout in the world if we were just a bunch of smaller groupings of states.” There are a lot of people in the world that would actually take this as a positive consequence.

@augustlan wouldn’t a system such as the EU be a possibility? We would have some advantages such as already having a common language and currency.

@rojo Unfortunately, I don’t really know all that much about the EU. You may be right! :)

I look at the United States like a huge dysfunctional family.
Texas is the rich uncle that everyone is waiting to drop dead so they can split his inheritance. (only uncle is crazy enough to burn all his crap when he goes).
California has the rich eccentric aunts who care more about their heavy taxes than its other relatives but likes to party and wear flash clothing or no clothing and keeps plastic surgeons in business along with their sisters in Florida
.
The rest of the south is the relatives you don’t like to talk about because of the religious nuts and family incests, along with W.Virginia.
From DC to NY to Chicago, you have the uncles that like to spend time in jail for various crimes.
My point is you can’t really pick your family. You can move away and disown them but you will go nuts trying to get them to change.

I also believe there are other countries equally dysfunctional. They are simply the neighbors you live with that keep everything they do under wraps and don’t go leaking all the shit they do. So everyone thinks they are normal.

Worst trait we have is that we feel the need to air all, and I mean all, of our dirty laundry and they don’t.