Why should marriage change things (not talking about the law)?

I feel that people that live together without a legal commitment don’t feel that their arrangement is important. If you really care and want to spend your life with a particular person, you should be married. In my mind, this applies to gay as well as straight couples. Marriage is particularly important if you have kids.

Marriage is the only legal and moral way for a couple to show they are truly committed to each other and to their children.

Being married takes the commitment to the next level. The benefits are greater but so are the costs for dissolution.
Sure marriages end. 50%. But look how many live-in relationships end. From what I have seen it is much greater. But when it happens most just end.

Because a marriage is a formal commitment to each other, you are both declaring your commitment. Yes, in some respects it is just a piece of paper, but if it is so minor, why not sign it? That little thing tells people you are really really committed.

I think it’s the fact that people who are married put a stake in the ground to say “we are committed” when they get married. They are publicly stating their intentions and their feelings and so people respond to that. If you are living together and ten years later, still together and even have kids, people may not adjust their view of your relationship because there is nothing to force them to do so. They may also be thinking that if you were serious, you would get married.

I have to admit, I often wonder why people who are together and say they are committed don’t get married. What a pain in the *ss to have to refer to someone you’ve been married to for 10 years as your boyfriend, SO, partner, whatever and have to deal with other people’s reactions and judgement.

It IS just a piece of paper though, it doesn’t actually mean that the couple is any more committed or anymore in love, but it does change other people’s perceptions.

“You’ll find out when you get married.”

Gah, I can’t even count how many times I heard that before I did get married. Guys at my husband’s job told him things would never be the same once that paper was signed. We just passed our one-year wedding anniversary (and we’ve been together 6 years) and nothing has changed due to the vows. We are, however, $10K poorer than we would be if there had been no wedding.

We’re married because we both wanted to do it, but the legal benefits are really the only benefits to marriage. Everything else is the same either way.

When I read this question to my husband, he said, “It is just a piece of paper.”

I don’t know, but it does make a difference in the way that you feel. You feel that you are a unit bound by laws and custom.

Marriage is a religious commitment. Nothing wrong with that, but if you’re not religious, the only reason you have to do it is either social acceptance or taking advantage of the secular state’s grants of privileges to those who choose to be married.* Most sane, educated people really don’t care anymore in modern societies, so social acceptance is largely becoming irrelevant. As I don’t recognize the state has a right to grant me privileges, I see no point in being married, and would kindly ask religious leaders and the busybody state to not regulate my relationships. k thx

* The main problem with this is the state offers tax incentives to be married. This means the unmarried pay higher taxes than the married, which means unmarried people subsidize the married. This is an act of theft.

@Ron_C “Marriage is the only legal and moral way for a couple” lol, really? wow
Aaaanyway, marriage is not just a piece of paper, nor is a 10 year cohabiting relationship any less of a marriage, in terms of how it feels but it is devalued in our society and, of course, you don’t get the thousands of legal rights attached to the hetero marriage standard (slowly changing).

It’s not that the day you get married things all of a sudden change, but over time, I would say it takes at least 4 years until you begin to feel like it really is forever in a way that is different than before. Assuming things are going well. I really can only speak for myself, not others. My husband is my family now, like my mom and dad, not just like someone I decided to add to my family. I guess it is like turning 18, suddenly the law says you are an adult, and your parents have no legal control over you, but it takes another 10 years to really feel like an adult.

For whatever reason, being married makes it different. I guess maybe after many years it becomes the same difference? Not sure. If people live together as if they are married for 25 years, then probably there is no real difference. By that point I consider them married anyway, even without a paper.

Now, I will say this, when someone is dating and they are in a committed relationship, I, as a friend or family member treat them exactly the same as if they are married. I include their SO the same way I would a spouse, and I take their relationship just as seriously. Anyone who doesn’t is being rude in my opinion. But, being the one married; well, I think only married people really understand why it is different then not being married. That might sound condescending, but it is not meant to be. It’s not about marriage being the right thing to do for some sort of moral or social reason, it’s just that it feels very uniting to be married. The cliché “two become one,” it feels that way to me. I think it is fine if people never marry, different strokes for different folks no judgement at all from me. I can understand completely not getting married for many reasons.

I can see both sides. Certainly there are some unmarried couples who are just as committed, or more committed, than some married couples. But I think for most people, the point of marriage is that you are making a stronger commitment than the one you had before you were married—you are making a promise to stick it out even when you might be unhappy, and to prioritize your partner’s happiness/wants/needs above your own in a way that you may not have before getting married.

I have learnt, in recent years, that a ring on someone’s finger does not necessarily make them more faithful to their spouses, it does make them more careful about being caught! I am very cynical about marriage, although this doesn’t mean that I haven’t seen some, seemingly, very successful marriages. My partner and I have no intention to get married and I don’t care what other people think about that. I know how I feel about him and I trust how he feels about me. If other people want to believe that we aren’t as (morally) commited to each other because we aren’t married then I am fine with that.

@Leanne1986 Do people really imply it is a moral thing? Like a religious thing?

@JLeslie See @Ron_C‘s answer right at the top of this thread!

Good point. The whole moral thing bothers me, I guess I prefer to think people don’t think that way. Block it out or something.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir maybe there are still some of my catholic school lessons attached to my thinking. Regardless of where it originates, I think a legal commitment to another person is the cement that holds a relationship together. If a couple won’t commit themselves in marriage they should not have children because they could break up at any provocation. This, in my way of thinking applies to couples whether they are gay or straight. The other reason is that marriage recognizes that the couple are legally committed to each other and that they share property and are involved in the physical well-being of the partners.

I hear about unmarried partners being separated in the hospital because their relationship hasn’t been formalized. It is all very sad and could have been avoided.

@Ron_C Maybe we need to rethink some of those things. Some people don’t get legally married because ot benefits them legally not to. Sometimes combining incomes works against the, getting help. I’m no looking to get into a conversations regarding the pitfalls of social programs, my only point is when two people say they are committed we need to believe them. The hospital example is difficult, but if the patient is awake enough to ask for smelne, it should not matter if they are legally related or not. Some state governments do recognize common law marriages when the people have not been formally married, but have lived as basically a married couple.

As far as children, the old laws had to do with protecting the child, which I previously felt very strongly about. I felt like the woman should be married when their child was born to legally tie the father to the child. But, now we have DNA testing, and fathers are tied legally even if not married. I still think it usually is better to be married if a couple is going to have a child, but I don’t believe in getting married because a girl turned up pregnant, unless the couple was very solid and heading towards marriage anyway. It’s not really a moral thing for me, it is more of a social thing and a money thing.

I understand how marriage would make a person feel more committed and stuff and show to the world your “commitment” but all I am trying to say is a piece of paper shouldn’t make you automatically place a person as more important and more loved just from that. It should’ve been already seen that way before the wedding vows, I mean obviously because you already love them and feel they are important.

I’d like to be married one day but if I marry my bf it doesn’t make him more important than he is now to me.

I don’t care about showing the world my commitment. I just think there is something psychological about the word husband or wife. It’s like adopting a child. Does it make a difference when a stepparent adopts their stepchild? Forget about the legalities of why it is a good idea for protecting the child God forbid something bad happens, but doesn’t that legal piece of paper mean something? Between the two people it means something. Many stepparents don’t adopt and still have very loving relationships with their stepchild and take responsibility for them andnthe child looks to them as a parents, but somehow the paper solidifies it psychologically.

When I became married at age 25 I had no idea what being married for a very long time would mean to me. I wanted to get married because I felt like just dating could go on forever, and I thought I wanted children, and to me children should happen inside a marriage for me personally. I had been in a six year relationship before that, so I had been in a long term relationship, and it is extremely similar to being married, it isn’t like a big magical thing changes in an instant. It’s an intangible that is hard to explain.

I ask you to think about this, what if your parents weren’t married? Would that be odd to you? What if they decided to get divorced on paper, but still stay together.

I’m just saying for saying “I do” it makes them more important than the moments before that? That’s all I’m saying. For some people sure that piece of document psychologically makes sthings solidified but slaves back then “jumped the broom” as of marriage with no legal action or papers and considered themselves married so it’s just what’s in the heart.

If my parents weren’t married that would be a bit odd but if I understood the reasons then I don’t think it matters to me one bit. Divorce is different, you’re not wanting anything to do witht hem but you’re still with them? Being together but not marrying isn’t really different other than you go to the court house and get married and what not. Some people don’t have a celebration and just do it.

If I had a child that wasn’t yet adopted by me, adopting them making them legally mine doesn’t change that I’ll love them more or how important they are. <—main point.

I understand the security and “solidifying” and what not but just saying you don’t automatically love them more because of it.

@Ron_C Yes it is very sad and could have been avoided by not making marriage the reason you would treat people and couples like humans. As for the rest of your comment, perhaps there is merit but none of it has to be attached to morality.

It’s understandable how you feel. I have met many people who feel the same way that you do. From what I’ve witnessed, it is becoming a more accepted option in some countries. It seems that the more religious the country, the more it is frowned upon to not have a partnership recognized by an official certificate.

You asked for us not to get into the legal aspects, so I won’t. So why do some people give less credit to a long-term relationship if there is no piece of paper? From what I’ve witnessed, and aside from religious beliefs, it seems to come down to two different reasons.

One is being old-fashioned. There was a time when divorce was not even a consideration no matter how bad the relationship became. Couples stuck it out, even if the situation could not be resolved. Today, where divorce is much more common, it is still more acceptable than never being married at all, especially if children are involved.

The other reason that some people seem to question the stability of a non-official partnership is that they have had one (or more) experience(s) in knowing a couple where it didn’t work out in the long run. The blame is placed upon the lack of making it official. It’s equated with a lack of commitment. What they don’t seem to understand is that every relationship is different. One couple’s circumstance cannot be applied to others’. All they have to do is look at the divorce rate to realize this is a falsehood.

As far as titles go, they are just labels. What matters is how you and your partner’s families feel about each of you.

@Ron_C I understand your point about the factor that a ceremony certificate is more important if children are involved. I used to feel the same way. Then I got to know children who were born out of wedlock. (That’s in interesting term, isn’t it?) and it didn’t effect them in a negative way. My guess is when they did or do become curious enough about their parents’ relationship, then they will ask and get a reasonable explanation. All I can tell you is that it doesn’t seem to be a stigma that having divorced parents did when I was growing up.

@LuckyGuy I’m not so sure that most non-official relationships “just end”. Some still result in lawsuits. There is also the dividing of the property Any time a child is involved in the equation, it ramps up the possibility of legal involvement.

@zenvelo and @Gabby101 Why do we need to show our commitment with a piece of paper to appease others? Don’t our actions show that we are devoted to each other?

@livelaughlove21 Thank you. After witnessing enough partnerships that have not resulted in marriage, either by choice or legal restrictions, I have yet to see a difference that a piece of paper makes.

@marinelife I don’t feel bound to marry my beloved due to customs. I will marry him, in a civil ceremony, because that is the only way I can move from the US to England to be with him permanently. If we both lived in the US or England, this wouldn’t be a necessity, but a choice.

@JLeslie Please help to understand. There have been other Fluther posts of yours where you mentioned that a couple engaged for a lengthy period of time is not as committed (my words; not yours). Adopting a child, or not, is comparing apples to oranges. It also depends upon each scenario.

@chelle21689 The “more important” bit all comes down to the couple’s perspective. Everyone that has posted so far has shared theirs. It sounds like your family and friends have done the same. Attempt to understand what advice they are giving and decide for yourselves. That’s all that matters.

@Pied_Pfeffer You aren’t getting what we are saying: it’s not the paper, it’s the act of a ceremony to commit to each other in a manner that demonstrates long term commitment that can only be broken through a complicated process. It is the action and the statement of two people that makes a marriage commitment a big deal. Hell, I am not even sure what happened to my marriage license.

And while many people put a religious connotation on it, for many people it is the commitment witnessed by society.

@Pied_Pfeffer The engaged thing is sort of a different thing. My point with that is if a couple is engaged to be married, but never makes a date, then usually something is up with that. An exception would be if both people have something very busy in their lives, and planning a date is almost impossible. I am mainly talking to women who have men who give a ring to shut her up, and then the man will ever pull the trugger and actually make a plan to marry. Totally different than if the couple is moving and want to settle before picking a date, or some other big difficulty that needs to work itself out before making a wedding date.

I think I am being a little misunderstood, I absolutely think an unmarried couple can love each other just as deeply as a married couple, and again I don’t look at an unmarried couple as less committed, I treat them exactly the same as a married couple. But, over and over again, married people will say that being married makes it different for them, why do you question that it is different for them? That it feels more unifying, more committed. To the next person it might not be the case, but for them it feels that way. From little things my husband has said, I definitely think being married kept us together when we hit a really bad patch. It had to do with me being ill, and it greatly affected our sex life and marriage and royally sucked, I still have some problems and it is a bit of a convulted mess. I think if my husband had not taken the marriage committment so seriously he would have left. When I was 20 something I didn’t really understand what in sickness and in health meant, now I do. We didn’t say those words in our vows, in fact when I got married I wasn’t much worried about the specific vows. I just knew I felt like I loved him, he made me happy, and I didn’t want to date a very long time without the marriage committment. Now, at my age, if we divorced or he died God forbid, I would probably feel differently, I don’t know for sure.

There certainly are marriages that never reach that fully committed level, and people who never marry who are very committed and stay together forever.

@chelle21689 Actually, I meant divorce not never married. I think you are right that if a child is born to unmarried parents it is just their normal and not a big deal. But, why is divorce a big deal if they are going to stay together. Some people do it, they do it to get financial aid for their kids. I would hate it. Even if my divorce to my husband was only for legal reasons, it would feel bad.

I think part of what your family and friend are telling you has to do with your age, not just married or not. It’s like what I described to @Pied_Pfeffer when people are young we worry the guy just isn’t making the committment, and I don’t just mean the committment of marriage, mean in general. Marriage symbolizes he isn’t “keeping his options open.” not that people don’t break off marriages, of course they do, but you would be amazed how many young men have a big life change and move onto the next girl. I know many women dumped after he finished residency to become a doctor, or he took a new job in another state and didn’t take her with him, etc. men will keep a girl just for sex. Sure, he likes her, but many men, and some women too, just don’t like to be alone, so they stay until the next one shows up, not because they want to stay indefinitely. I absolutely am not saying all men in unmarried relationships are like this, I am only saying very young women get duped too often.

I’ll never forget an Oprah episode where a teenage couple was on and the parents were not happy they were having sex, and when the couple was asked where they think the relationship was going, the girl said she expects them to stay together, and the boy kind of looked at her, and then they pressured him again to answer and he said, I don’t know we are just in high school.” The girls was dumbfounded after that, sorely dissappointed it seemed, because she never would have guessed that was in his head or would come out of his mouth. I realize you are not a teenager, and so if you and your SO decide it is better for you each individually and as a couple not to be married and are just fine with how things are, I say it is just fine. If I ever meet you both I would treat you the same as a married couple. I don’t assume anything about your committment.

@zenvelo I understand that it isn’t the piece of paper. It is the official ceremony that represents a publicly recognized commitment to each other. I think that @chelle21689 understands this as well.

What I’m trying to get across is that for couples that are not legally bound, who is to say that there is any less commitment to each other in their hearts? We rarely know the reason for their choice not to marry. Frankly, it’s none of our business. What irritates me is when someone judges a couple as potentially doomed because they opt not to marry.

@JLeslie Thank you for the explanation on engagements. I now have a better understanding about how you feel on the subject. Out of curiosity, how many engaged couples have you known where a ring was given and then the man had cold feet when it came to setting a date? I only know three couples (four including mine) that are engaged and the status has lasted longer than anyone expected. Two are my partner’s relatives. In all three cases, I have no clue why they aren’t married yet.

Please understand that I am not trying to imply that a marriage ceremony isn’t important or doesn’t subtly change the dynamics of the relationship. I’m just trying to say that it all depends upon how each couple views their commitment to each other. Isn’t that what is important?

@Pied_Pfeffer Absolutely that is what is important. I once read, I don’t know how true it is, that in Judaism It is not necessary for a Rabbi to conduct a marriage ceremony for a couple to be married, that the commitment and promise they make to each other, between each other, and living as a married couple, building a Jewish home, makes them married in the eyes of Judaism. I do know Jews accept a couple as married if they are married in a civil ceremony, as opposed to the Catholics who don’t. I don’t know about other religions. I am talking about the Catholic church, not the average Catholic person.

Anyway, I liked that, I like that it is about what is between the two people, and not because some clergy person made it official or even a justice of the peace. So fundamentally I agree with you.

I personally know two people who were engaged, never set a date, and wound up breaking up. I don’t know how the break up happened, they were not close friends of mine. I currently know one couple who is engaged, who has not set a date, they have lived together for a while now, been dating for two years, but they are moving to a new city so she has not set the date yet, but knows more or less the time of year she is shooting for next year. That doesn’t feel like stalling to me.

I also should say I see nothing wrong with calling someone your spouse even if not legally married. If the two feel married, it’s enough for me.

Edit: I in no way feel anyone is trying to imply a marriage ceremony or marriage in general isn’t important in some way. It has nothing to do with taking anything perinally. I don’t feel offended in anyway, and I don’t feel like I need to defend marriage. i am only talking about how it feels to me to be married in my marriage.

I googled a little about the Jewish marriage question and found this which is mainly a response for a gay couple, but near the end the Conservative Rabbi explains, …But, you seem to know that you don’t need an officiating Rabbi within Jewish law for a marriage to become binding – just kosher witnesses, a kosher ring and a kosher ketuba. Similarly, you can arrange your own commitment ceremony in the “presence of loved ones” and it would certainly be as meaningful to you, family and friends as a marriage… The law he refers to is for heterosexual marriage, but he states the Conservative movement is analyzing how they might proceed in the future regarding gay marriage as times progress.