Since the future is a mystery, isn't the goal of acquiring wealth totally reasonable? Why the antipathy toward the pursuit of wealth?

Who exactly claims to be antipathetic in regards to future financial comfort?

@Josie, are you sure that people feel antipathy for those with great wealth, or is this just a weird fantasy of those who have been successful?

In my experience, most people aspire to move up and acquire wealth. Occasionally people ask those with wealth, to, you know, pay for the roads they ship goods on, or, to contribute to the health care costs of their employees.

It is on these occasions that these captains of industry, most of whom got their money through inheritance, whine like little children that nobody cares about their feelings. That whining is the largest cause of dislike, in my experience.

What the fuck are you talking about?

And I am a socialist and I promote saving for retirement and rainy days.

My gripe is people hoarding wealth while the people doing the hard work of creating that wealth are payed so little they are eligible for food stamps while working 40 hours a week. Yeah, I am talking about Wal-Mart.

I just saw Gatsby last night. This seems relevant.

Some people jump on opportunity, gain and acquire.

Others work for or try to hang onto the fringes of those people.

I can’t say any of them are wrong for doing so. Only that the big money seems so dis-satisfactory to those who have it. And those who don’t have, dream of what they’d do with it.

It’s so illusionary.

I’m not against wealth so much as I’m against taking advantage of other folks in order to attain it.

It’s not antipathy towards wealth; it’s antipathy towards fucking anybody and everybody over in the pursuit of wealth. If you take food from my table, and make it hard for me to keep myself and my wife living indoors, I will hate you.

There is a point where the pursuit of wealth becomes unreasonable. Many have passed that point long ago. They don’t care if the world burns so long as they get more wealth. If you are a hard-working normal guy who wants to get wealthy enough to retire but does so in an honest way, there is no problem. If you are a multi-millionaire CEO who cuts workers hours and benefits, forces them onto government assistance and making us taxpayers foot the bill, and then whines because you have to pay half the taxes an honest middle-class worker does, then you are a fucking douche.

The dividing line is whether you hurt a lot of people in your pursuit. It’s not how much you have, but how many people you destroyed to get there that creates the antipathy. By your logic, bank robbers, embezzlers, and con artists are among the most virtuous humans that ever lived, and I can’t agree with that.

I don’t have a problem with people accumulating wealth. I’m not sure who does?

I do have a problem with people accumulating obscene amounts of wealth and not doing anything to help those less fortunate. I admire people like Bill Gates who recognise they can’t improve their own lives further with more wealth but they can make a difference in terms of health and education for less advantaged people.

Everyone wants to put money aside for security but when the few start to accumulate far more than they need and at the expense of the many then problems arise.

In addition to what has been said already; the pursuit of money and/or power is shallow. It seems that on their deathbeds, more people regret not having close relationships than not having more money or status. In pursuit of wealth, many people also seem to isolate themselves and lack emotional intimacy in their lives.

One thing that’s not a mystery about the future is that it’s always coming, and I see nothing wrong with working hard to prepare for it. Rather than calling it “aquiring wealth,” I think of it as “saving for a rainy day.”

Me, I believe in stashing away as many peanuts as possible for the day the zoo closes.”

I like what Mark Twain said about the idea (I’m in general agreement – or awe – of most of the things he has said):

I am opposed to millionaires, but it would be dangerous to offer me the position.

But with that said, I’ve met a few, and they’re generally not bad folks, as folks go. They’re not generally better than other folks, either. They’re just folks.

I think where you might be misreading “dislike” or “antipathy”, @josie, is the notion of others’ ideas of “fair share”, which apparently for millionaires is a much higher share than it is for those who need the millionaires’ money and productive capacity.

Where do you get these ideas? Do you not know any real people in real life? I’ve never met anyone who is against earning and socking away money. Everything else has already been said.

The only people who speak badly about the wealthy are poor people who want to feel better about themselves, and I am not saying all poor feel badly about themselves and do such a thing. Many poor people do all the right things, work hard, and want to acquire wealth. But, some people with very little money talk about how everyone who is rich got there through dishonesty and greed and have no moral character, which I call bullshit.

I assume you are talking about liberals wanting to tax the wealthy and who are angry at wealthy people for pursuing wealth while treating others unfairly with extremely low pay. The superwealthy will be wealthy still, no one is trying to take their overall wealth status away from them. In fact, those same liberals want everyone to have some “wealth.”

To imply people think saving for the future is a bad idea is sort of ridiculous. A lot of people suck at it. They want to do it but they don’t. Then there is also a group if people who don’t believe in it, because they feel things can go bad at any time, so live it up while you can. Many of them feel wealthy while they buy what they want, and have a bunch of fancy things and fancy travel. But, funny, the people I know who are like that often wind up envious of those who have real wealth, meaning still have money when times take an economic downturn.

From what I can tell it breaks down into two groups. Those that believe there is a fixed amount of money and if you get more, you must have taken it from someone else. The there are those that believe that wealth expands and if you create something new it goes the wealth. Which group you belong in will dramatically shift your view of the wealthy.

Gotta agree with @jerv on this one. A lot of people have put it first, above everything else, and when they hurt people to get it, it’s not a good thing anymore.

If you’ve acquired wealth, I’m truly happy for, if you are using it to help others, not hoarding. You can’t take it with you after all.

@KNOWITALL What is hoarding? Everyone’s view of hoarding is different I would bet.

@JLeslie I think hoarding all your money, like generational wealth, without some kind of altruistic vision/ disbursement is wrong. The amount depends on the person.

@KNOWITALL Interesting. I guess then I would wonder how much is weathy where that burden or expectation begins to be a requirement to not be considered a hoarder. I don’t expect you to answer, I don’t want to derail the Q. When I think “wealthy” I am thinking millions. At least $3million. I think a lot of people have a lower threshold.

@JLeslie True, my mom can’t keep anything over $1000 or she has to give it away to the less fortunate. I respect her for her generosity, but I worry for her, too, sometimes.

I have researched the fact that although Republicans are the wealthiest, they also are the largest givers to charity and charitable causes. Although what they are giving and what they get in return gets pretty cloudy. sigh

@KNOWITALL one of the studies I saw regarding Republicans giving more was done by state, meaning red state/blue state according to the recent electoral college, can’t remember the date of the study, which would be a ridiculous way to decide one party gives more than the other. Maybe there have been better studies in the matter though. I don’t know. I also don’t know if they included church donations, and I assume Republicans have more church goers, but maybe not? Black and Hispanic people have high percentages of church goers and a lot are Democrats. I think trying to divide up people by political party in regards to charity is fruitless. Looking at the behaviors of the poor, middle class, and wealthy is more interesting to me personally, or at minimum both parameters need to be used. The psychographics of groups are usually pretty complex. All sorts of subgroups need to be considered. A wealthy Mormon probably gives a large percentage, let’s say 10% of their income, to the church, while a weathy Atheist might give only 7% of their income, but it goes to giving basic medical care to people who otherwise wouldn’t have it. Does it matter where the money is going? I don’t mean to say Atheists give better than Mormons, it is only an example. I’m sure the Mormon church does all sorts of charitable things to help people, I have no idea all that they do, but at least some of the money is to build churches.

It’s interesting to look at this in terms of the classic “Prisoner’s dilemma” scenario used in game theory, which goes like this:

Two guys are arrested for a crime. They have already agreed to support each other in questioning, but the police question them separately, so neither knows what the other is actually doing. If they stick together in their stories, they’ll both get a light sentence for a minor offense. But the police offer each a deal: turn state’s witness against the other guy, and you’ll get off scot-free, while the other guy will get a stiff sentence. Faced with this decision, do you cooperate, or do you defect? And what happens if you play several iterations of the game with the same partner?

Our socio-economic system presents a version of this game, but one in which the stakes are positive rather than negative. One option is cooperative: if everyone works together toward prosperity, and the fruits of prosperity are shared, then everyone gains somewhat. The other option is competitive: You can maximize your own benefit, knowing that the other guy will be screwed. What will you do? And how would several iterations of that game play out?

Game theory says that if both players know how many iterations of the game are to be played, then the optimal strategy will be to defect at every turn, i.e. maximize your own gain every time. But if the number of iterations is unknown, then cooperation becomes a viable strategy. In fact, greedy strategies aren’t very successful. The maximum payout would occur if everyone unfailingly cooperated, but the game assumes this wouldn’t actually happen.

Obviously, trust is a key element. A partner who shows evidence that they’re likely to defect in favor of maximum gain will be unlikely to elicit cooperation from their partner. They’ll generate a lot of hostility instead. In the real-life “game” of our society, certain players show evidence that their default strategy is to defect at every turn, and the other players learn this and resent it, because it drags down the whole game.

@Jaxk When >90% of any increase in total wealth goes to 1% of the people, leaving <10% to split amongst the other 99% of people, the net effect is close enough to zero-sum that it makes no practical difference, especially when a notable portion of the 99% actually sees a decline in wealth.
If I become a multi-billionaire while 1,000 people lose everything (home, job, savings…), by your apparent logic, everything is fine because the sum total of wealth has increased. If hard work is to be rewarded, isn’t doubling productivity per worker worth at least keeping up with inflation, if not actually getting a fair share of the increase in total wealth?
Therein lies the root of the problem; unequal rewards. Sure, management deserves rewards for what they do, but the best idea in the world is worthless if it’s not implemented; there is no net increase in overall wealth if ideas remain just ideas. And the less disposable income workers have, the less sustainable the economy is. I’d rather have $1M/yr for the rest of my life than $2M/yr for the next 5 years and nothing after that, especially if that short period of increased profit leads to higher costs later on.

@jerv

I always lovbe the way you make up numbers then build a case based on them.

@Jaxk Citing sources and posting links is hard on a smartphone. But since you insist, I’ll see what I can do after work… if I get home at a decent hour.

I see nothing at all wrong with the pursuit of wealth. And once you have achieved it, it is yours to do with as you please. No one has any obligation to give their money to those who simply have not worked as hard or are as clever. Through the government we all help those who are not capable of taking care of themselves. And yes, @josie I agree with you, there seems to be much antipathy towards the wealthy. I personally do not begrudge them, nor do I find them shallow (well no more of them are shallow than any other economic group) although I do sometimes wish I were one of them! Life is full of choices though and most of us consciously (or unconsciously) choose where we end up on the economic ladder.

@rooeytoo Oh Lawdy the sky must be fallin’, a Republican (me) said to give it away and hoarding was wrong and got contradicted on this site- wow. haha!

@rooeytoo I don’t resent the wealthy. But I and many folks like me – who are pretty smart and very hard-working – do resent being told that we too could be rich if we were simply as clever and hard-working as the wealthy are. What a crock of shit that is. Many of the poor work their asses off, just to survive, and plenty of them are plenty smart, too. They will still likely never get rich. While many people do get rich on their smarts and drive, many just got lucky, either by birth or circumstance. And some got there on the backs of poor people, fucking every one over on their way to the top. It’s that last group that causes ill will.

@rooeytoo The “hard work results in wealth” is bullshit, as proven by how many work their asses off to merely to survive.

“Clever” doesn’t really enter into it unless you measure a person’s intelligence solely by their bank balance. You are saying that Paris Hilton is smarter than both of us put together, and I doubt that’s true.

If choice is all it takes, I choose to have a time machine. If that sounds flippant and ridiculous, look at what you yourself said and tell me how that is less ludicrous.

And that is why I could never be a Conservative; I know the difference between rhetoric and reality.

See what I mean, say anyone is accountable for their own situation and watch out for incoming.

I believe as did my parents and grandparents that if you work you get rewarded.

Just one little example, Sydney has been deemed to be one of the most expensive cities in the world to live. People are crying that they will never be able to get into the housing market (despite a liberal first home buyers grant by gov). However I know a kid who didn’t go to uni, instead went into an apprenticeship. He works hard (and plays hard) often working weekends and holidays for the extra money. He drives a beat up old car and doesn’t have the newest iPhone. But he did buy a fixer upper house and is determined to have it paid off long before the term of the mortgage. And I bet he will buy another house after that. On the other hand I know a kid who just graduated from uni with a degree in business and a minor in IT, no doubt in my mind he will be driving a Porshe soon because he is a hard worker, made wise career choices and is pursuing that lifestyle.

Life is full of choices, you make the clever ones and you get where you want to go.

Cry and whine all you want, that is the way life is and if you are not where you want to be it is because of the choices you have made in your life, as am I.

Now let us not bring up the starving children in Bangladesh, I am speaking of those lucky enough to be born into USA, Australia, etc.

And you may think Paris is an idiot but I think she either she is a marketing genius or her agent is. I know, you don’t like marketing either.

For every story like that, there are untold stories of people who’ve worked hard their entire lives, made the only choices available to them at any given time, and have never had/will never have that level of success. Take my situation, for instance:

I was a straight A student, I’ve worked my ass off since I was 14 years old, and am currently working three jobs (can’t find a full-time one for the life of me) and renting out a house we own for peanuts, because it’s all we can get in this market. My husband is smarter than I am, and has worked his ass off his whole life. He was laid off due to the economic downturn, and was unable to find a job for two years. Very recently, he finally found a job…at Walmart. He’s 54 years old, with a college degree and bad knees, and he’s barely making above minimum wage. He comes home in agonizing pain nearly every day just to bring a little bit of money in. Due to circumstances beyond our control, we are barely scraping by. Medical issues, the lay-off and a 90% reduction in my salary mean that we’ve blown through any savings we had long ago. I don’t blame the wealthy for our situation, but I sure as hell don’t blame us, either. And yes, I resent being told it is our own fault.

I am sorry for your situation, but it doesn’t change my opinion. My position in life is as a result of the choices I made. I am not where I am because someone of choices someone else made.

I actually don’t know what to say, whose fault is it? Who is to blame? And what does it have to do with some people having more wealth?

I don’t think anyone is to blame. It’s just…life. Shit happens! ;)

@rooeytoo I think @augustlan points out the root of that problem; we always look for a scapegoat since we humans cannot accept that sometimes things just happen. Some blame the victim, some fall back on, “It’s God’s will”, but by and large, a lot of people (especially those on the Conservative side of the aisle) absolutely refuse to accept that anything happens by chance, or that there is such a thing as “circumstances beyond one’s control”.

I chose to be born to a father that beat the shit out of me and my mother.
I chose to laid off from a well-paying job and not find another one for over a year; all those applications and interviews were sabotaged by me because I am lazy and don’t want to work.
I chose to smash my car into that SUV that slid in front of me because I considered the loss of income, the medical expenses, and the back pain that will never go away to be worth getting a few weeks off of work.

Don’t get me wrong; I fully believe in personal accountability, but not to the extent where I blame everything bad on bad choices the way you do. If you got hit by a bus, would you blame yourself? You’d be a total hypocrite if you didn’t.

@josie If you want to know why the antipathy, look at @rooeytoo and you have your answer. It’s unrealistic, people with less empathy than any psychopath who love to demean those that are less fortunate themselves and the rare success stories that they see. That is the reason for the antipathy!

I can sure agree that shit happens.

However I can also look back on my life and see where I made choices that would have greatly altered my life’s path, some for the better and some thank goodness I did not choose.

But there are many things that happen that I have no control over. I acknowledge that with no compunction.

@agustian, I did not intend to insult you or demean you, I am just saying how I feel.

Jerv, I have heard your sad stories before and I think it falls in the shit happens catagory. I will not bore you with my sad little stories, but I do think that once one is old enough to get away from family, you do have choices about how you live and whether you want to continue to lament the past and be a victim of it or just say it didn’t kill me, it made me stronger and get on with it. I don’t know anyone who has had a perfect life and that includes the wealthiest ones as well. Your name calling and accusations are sad and reflect your feelings of resentment towards those who disagree with you or who you think did not have a life as hard as yours. I hope you can find a way to get over your resentment.

@rooeytoo I wish I could believe that, but unless your words and your thoughts are extremely different from each other, I cannot.

To be sure, I have made a few bad choices in my life that have put me where I am today. For instance, I decided to work so I could pay rent and eat instead of racking up huge debts getting a degree that would be no guarantee of better employment. (I have a thing about owing others; I prefer to make my own way.) I have skimped on saving for retirement so I could keep the lights on and put food on the table without government assistance and still afford health insurance. Both poor decisions to be sure, but I don’t regret them.

And it has made me more persistent (some would say “stubborn”), more resourceful, and overall stronger, always able to get by one way or another. But you’re right, it has made me resentful. Not the resentment that comes from jealousy, but the sort of resentment that you feel towards somebody (individual or group) who constantly belittles and demeans you.

Disagree with me and I won’t mind, so long as you aren’t insulting me. I may attack your position, but I’ll do my best not to attack you. But I take an apparent disregard of the harsh realities of life in order to say that everything is a choice to be a bigger insult than any string of expletives. You disregarded reality by effectively saying that no amount of “shit happens” can prevent a clever, hard-working person from becoming wealthy. You insulted and demeaned me, and those like me. Maybe us “less than wildly successful” people shouldn’t feel insulted when we’re basically told we are foolish, unwise, lazy, etcetera, but we’re a little too human not to.

However, you did help answer the question. Your callous display of cognitive dissonance, of both acknowledging and denying “shit happens”, and me, being the “heart on the sleeve” type of guy I am, well, we proved that people who hold your viewpoint are at least one cause of the ill-will. I couldn’t have done it without you.

@jerv jeeeeez dude are you having a bad day? More little sad stories, you should go to an ACOA meeting, you would win the sad little story contest hands down. I’m sorry you weren’t born rich and handsome but not all of us are, it’s just a fact of life. And I am not insulting you, you do tell these sad little stories about your plight in life. And if people belittle and demean you, you have to learn to ignore it. Because resentment obviously makes you a bit cranky. You are going to give yourself an aneurysm. But I am impressed with your vocabulary, you sure used a lot of big words in that diatribe. Good on ya mate.

@rooeytoo I just say the sort of things most people keep to themselves. Everyone has a story, many of which are far worse than mine, but most remain untold. I stay sane and motivated by not bottling things up like most people do; nothing more.

I don’t want you or anyone else feeling sorry; I just want you to understand and accept that it takes more than wits and effort to succeed. We can do things that alter our chances for success, but chance still plays a role. If you and those like you would accept that, then I would be content, and I’m sure many others would be as well. But so long as some people insist that the only way to not be wildly successful is to lack either brains and/or work ethic despite all of the intelligent, hard-working people who are barely getting by, there will be strife and conflict… and, yes, antipathy.

Well @jerv here’s a news flash for you, I’m not going to change my attitude. Now if you want to generalise and you certainly seem to, then I will also, people like you will always feel sorry for themselves because you enjoy wallowing in your misery. You enjoy victimhood. When you grew up and left home you have the opportunity to cease being a victim but some just like it too much. You don’t know me or how I grew up or how I worked to achieve what I have or don’t have, you know nothing but you make sweeping assumptions and call me names and imply I am a psychopath. I think you are acting like a f-ing rectum. Now that should not be considered an attack, because I didn’t say you were one, although the temptation is there, I said you are acting like one, so that should be on the right side of the fine line. Anyhow, I am bored so I probably will not respond to your next attack. But hey, I was serious about ACOA meetings, you should look for one, usually when there is an abusive father there is alcohol involved and even if not, you would fit right in, plenty of sad little stories and everyone listens attentively and understands. You would be in your element!

@rooeytoo It is not as black and white as you make it. I absolutely agree that the majority of rich people have worked hard, have smarts, seized opportunities, and sacrificed. But, in America we do not value all levels of work as we should. The lower levels are paid extremely low and can barely get by, and make ends meet by getting public assistance. I am not talking about people who don’t work or barely work, I mean people who work full time or more, whether it be with one job or two. I don’t know why you are ok with public assistance? I agree with you that the wealthy don’t have to give away any of their money, but probably they should have earned a little less to begin with, so the lower levels can earn a little more. Earning money, rather than being on the government dole is much better for many reasons. The person is more likely to feel pride in their work, more likely to work, and more work hard.

I am not saying the janitor and the derrment manager should make the same salary, I am only saying the discrepancy in America is too great. When America was proud of her middle class, we were paying the middle class better.

I also agree that wealth has to do with choices in spending and saving, not only how much income someone makes. The guy with the Porsche who probably bought it by leasing or financing it might wind up with less money than the one scri ping to buy a house and sacrificing. The Porsche looks really good, maybe he feels rich having one (unless he is like my husband just obsessed with them) but he isn’t rich if the car puts him into debt, and if it is a new car, it lost money the second he drove it off the lot. But, if he makes enough money, if he makes double the house guy, he might actually wind up just fine financially. He could have had even more wealth if he made different choices, but still fine.

I am not rich. I do live very comfortably. I worked my ass off for years, never spent all my money, saved like crazy, and yes, I have not worked for about 3–4 years. I worked from the age of 14 until 43. I plan on getting a job now that I moved to FL, not that it matters. I did the spend and save wisely thing that you mentioned and I agreed with. I saved and saved because I wanted to be able to quit or work part time if I felt like it. I don’t see how that is different than someone continuing to work and buying nice things? I bought my freedom through hard work. I worked retail most of that time, on my feet 50–70 hours a week, had a back injury at one point, had a chronic illness during part of my career, lack of sleep, stress, etc. like most people who work, I worked hard. I worked in an office for a few years in the last ten and that is a cake walk. People who have never worked on their feet doing physical labor have no idea. I have no idea what type of work you do, I am not talking about you personally.

I certainly am not going to apologize for not working the last few years, I got this because I earned it. We moved to TN for husband’s job, and my career was interupted, at that point I was working in real estate for a couple years and then the real estate market crashed. I was having very bad muscle trouble and didn’t feel I could work full time retail. If I had I would have been crying in pain a lot. Thank God I saved for a rainy day, and my husband made a good salary. If we had lived as many of our friends had, we would have been in debt rather than with a surplus. Some was luck and some was careful planning and sacrifice.

At one point in my career I took a huge pay cut, which was a ridiculous, unreasonable pay cut, to work my way up in a company. In retrospect it was a disgusting wage the company paid for that job. I wound up unable to pay my bills and quitting. Several months later I went back to that company. Several months after that they changed how they promoted people, because people could not take that steep a pay cut to try to work their way up. Why anyone ever thought it was a good idea was an idiot. It was my first lesson in how cheap and idiotic a company can be.

@rooeytoo I do not judge you! Judge you for what? I have no idea how you live, what you do, nothing. And, it doesn’t matter to me anyway. If you have mentioned it on other Q’s I don’t remember the details. I know you are American and now live in Australia, and I think it is fantastic that you have lived in both places. I always appreciate your answers and your perspective,

No sweat, I know what it is like to feel like a bunch of jellies are piling on. Sorry if my post felt like that to you.

I think you both actually made good points before the emotion took over.

There are SO many sad stories out there, and we have to realize that helping each other should always be a priority, rich or poor. Give a step up to help others.

http://www.news-leader.com/article/20121225/NEWS01/312260001/Springfield-missouri-secret-Santa-hands-out-100-bills-and-joy

@KNOWITALL That makes me think of this recent Q where some of us are disgusted people are paid so little it is difficult to manage their lives. I am all for generous gifts, and I am a huge pay it forward person. When I lived in the TN I had this overwhelming feeling sometimes that people got almost too much satisfaction from helping others. It seemed to cross the line where they were glad there were poor people to help. Almost too much pride gleened from helping. Not that I would ever discourage charity, just the opposite, but since so many of them were right wing, it was just sort of odd in away. They would say quasi racist, dismissive things about the poor and then do charitable things to help them. But, at the same time say people like that can’t be helped. Strange.

@JLeslie Yeah but they’re still puting positivity out in the universe, and helping someone, surely we can forgive them for that. :)

Forgive them for what?

@JLeslie For feeling a little self-satisfied at helping others.

A little is nornal. I was bothered by how some people seem to take it to a weird level of being happy there are people to help.

Wow seems like we’ve gone full circle here. If you don’t help others you’re a hard hearted bitch with no empathy for others. If you do help others you’re a self engrandizing bastard taking pleasure in the misery of others. Doesn’t seem to be a way to win here, which takes us back to the question, “Why the antipathy toward the pursuit of wealth?”

@Jaxk For me it is all about extremes. Again, not black and white, it’s grey, many shades of grey. There will always be people who need help in some way or another. In fact we all need help in some way. Again, I encourage people to be charitable, don’t twist my words. For both reasons to help others and the good it does for ourselves to help others.

@Jaxk Nobody likes being made to feel like everything is their fault. Sure, some stuff maybe, but when one is blamed for things beyond their control, they may get touchy.
Nobody likes not being rewarded for their efforts while others get all of the glory. I’m not going to bust my ass so that my boss can replace his 2012 Maserati with this years model; I’m going to bust my ass trying to get my own.

That covers the “not helping”, and pride covers the helping. Some consider it condescending, especially when help comes from those seen as the reason help was needed in thr first place. If you set me on firem I’m not going to be grateful when you spray me with a fire extinguisher; I’m still going to be pissed at you for setting me on fire. Same logic. And some just don’t like taking handouts.

@JLeslie

The Gates Foundation has given away $26 billion. Bill Gates must be a real bastard because that seems pretty extreme. But then extreme is in the eye of the beholder.

@jerv

I’ve heard you tell us that you could get another job for more money but that you like the job you have. You like your boss and your company has never laid anyone off. That gives you job security and you like that. Well, guess what, that is a choice. A choice you’ve made. It is hard to sympathize with you when you continuosly complain about your dire circumstances when you chose those circumstances. I know, I know, I’m a hard hearted bastard with no empathy. I’ll have to live with that.

@jerv Feel you on that. I have a hard time accepting help from anyone, even family. I would rather work two or three jobs (I have one, husband has two now) to make ends meet and get ahead.

The pisser is that I’ve worked since I was 12 yrs old (at the local fairgrounds) and steadily climbed up, but when my husband had several surgeries and seizure’s, even without children, it got tough. That was just bad luck for us, and it happens, it certainly wasn’t our fault. We went from having a nice nest egg to having almost none, boy is that stressful, so we adjusted our lifestyle to take care of business.

Unlike a lot of people, I don’t think our struggles should affect our ability to pay our bills or keep up medical payments, in fact we’ve made a ton of progress by sacrificing and eating hamburger instead of steaks, staying home more rather than attending a ton of social events. I’m not saying it wouldn’t be nice for a generous stranger to pay our last few medical bills, but that doesn’t happen to normal people like me, the working poor, only to the homeless or visibly needy, which is okay with me. :)

@jerv

And frankly, I would be grateful to the guy for the fire extinguisher, even if he was the one that set me on fire. I guess we have different values.

@Jaxk It isn’t the dollar amount. Lord, why do I bother?

@Jaxk Valuing security over sheer wages is a choice, and one I take responsibility for. At least here my low wages have a reason other than lining my boss’ pocket. That isn’t going to stop me from complaining about high medical costs, and I’m still going to curse fate when my car needs major repairs, but the main reason I complain is that I know many people far worse off than me. The things I find annoying are things that cause others major -0(potentially life-threatening)—problems.
Yes, we have different values; I am less forgiving.

I notice the post from @jerv where he compares me to a psychopath has not been moderated. So I am assuming that in fluther it is acceptable and on the right side of the fine line to compare someone to something as long as you do not call them that outright. What a load of bull.

Well, let’s see this, @jerv you are like a total rectum, you keep saying the same thing over and over, whining about your life. And yet I have heard you claim you could have a better job but you don’t want to travel or move. You said you like old cars, now you are crying about it. You say you have the latest gaming equipment and android phone, why don’t you give them up and get a better car. Or do you just enjoy acting like a spoiled child who whines and whinnies until someone does feel like duct taping your mouth.

Oh I just noticed @Jaxk reminded you of the same stuff, oh well, you love to say the same thing over and over and over again, so I will too.

[mod says] Let’s calm down, people.

A head’s up: I am having to mod in this thread, even though I’m involved, because no other mods are present. Normally, I would have another mod handle it.

@rooeytoo Let’s break this down: In the post of @jerv‘s that you reference, he did not call you a psychopath, he said people with the viewpoint you expressed have less empathy than one. Even if he had flat out said that you are “unrealistic” or have “less empathy” or “loves to demean”, that would not be a personal attack. (It might be flame bait to throw “psychopath” in there, though. I will talk that over with the mods. If we decide to remove it for that reason, I’ll remove all this talk about it, too.) Later on, he did directly attack you, and we removed that post.

In the post of yours that we removed, you directly called someone an actual name, and pretended to “accidentally” call another person an actual name, while making it patently clear that it was not an accident. That is a personal attack, no question. So it was removed for that reason, and all references to it were removed, too.

If you’d like to discuss this further, please contact me or another mod directly, so we don’t further derail the thread.

@KNOWITALL As much as I complain, the truth is that I am quite fortunate, and I know it. I credit much of that to my steadfast refusal to take on massive debt; no car loans, no student loans, and good enough insurance to make my medical debt orders of magnitude lower than it would be otherwise.
I afford my luxuries like a Droid RAZR HD because I have no issues eating beans and rice, honestly prefer ‘84–87 Corollas over newer, more expensive cars, and have a wife that is an excellent bargain hunter. Sadly, every time we start to get ahead, shit happens; most recently, our savings were wiped out replacing my wiped out car. Fortunately, that sort of thing has yet to happen when we had no nest egg. Funny how that works….

@jerv Oh, I understand perfectly, same thing here, almost exactly believe it or not. I even drive a paid off 2001 Corolla- ha!