Why do people insist on blaming prices / fast food / whatever for "making" people fat?

Because they don’t have the courage to blame themselves.

You can buy a McDonald’s double-burger for $1, and the salad is over $5 with tax.

If you’re poor (which many of us are), which can you afford for a family?

Yes, partially is is choices that we all have to make, but if you have $5 a day to spend on lunch, you’ll probably go for the McDonalds.

People like me will prepare tuna salad or eat leftovers instead of spending the $5 per day (I’m a tightwad) which is better for you, but not everyone is able to do that.

There is a bit of blame to be shared with the food industry that has specifically targeted unhealthy food to be attractive to people who are not knowledgeable. Things like people not knowing that McDonalds puts sugar on its fires, that there were industry conferences about increasing the amount of fat, sugar and salt, ways to make people crave more junk food. Yes, I agree with personal responsibility, but then when somebody drinks diet coke to control their weight, but then finds out the diet coke is making them fatter?

Or when the “fat-free” craze was popular in the nineties, but it turned out the fat free had extra sugar so people would eat it? Sometimes the food industry has to take some responsibility for deceptive practices.

People are fat because they don’t get enough exercise. I’ve gained weight because I spent more time on the internet and less time exercising. My diet hasn’t changed. When I exercised I was fit.

It’s like you never see a fat caveman/woman & they had no fucking cash…then again, no candy stores either.

@KNOWITALL If you’re poor (which many of us are), which can you afford for a family?

Eh, trust me, if you’re seriously poor, you’re not eating at MacDick’s.

McDonalds is crazy cheap in the USA.

@Symbeline I am poor (because I actually pay my bills) and we have had to eat at McD’s before, like before payday. Most places here have ‘value’ menu’s for $1.00.

@KNOWITALL I pay my bills too, and am left with buying noodle cups and shitty soft drinks at the dollar store until next Tuesday when I get paid lol. But for me, four cups plus four drinks for five bucks is a little better than one hamburger and a drink.

Are you saying you can’t buy hamburger buns and a pound of hamburger and make 8 hamburgers that cost less than $1.00 apiece?

@Dutchess_III: If a person only has two dollars, they cannot buy one bag of hamburger buns, let alone hamburger buns plus chop meat.

@Dutchess_III Buying the meat for the hamburgers would pretty much cost me the entire five dollars.

Well, let’s take a look at the reverse: What’s with all the excuses to bash on the overweight?

Yes, the reasons posted are part of the problem. And… it’s not that cut-and-dried. I’ve known people who eat disgustingly and don’t put on weight. Is anyone giving them the smackdown? No, because they’re still pretty to look at. As I have stated before, you can have candy and beer three times a day, as long as it doesn’t SHOW. The current brouhaha is not about “concern” for someone’s nutritional habits in such cases.

I’m a bit sensitive about this because yes, you guessed it, I’ve got weight issues. I went on Weight Watchers again last year. I was on that while taking yoga, ballroom dancing, and walking miles a day carrying a 50-pound bag on my back (and I took stairs at every opportunity). After several months and much back-and-forth, I lost almost six whole pounds. So yeah, tell me again about that “burn more calories than you eat” horseshit.

And I’m already weary of the “but they cost us normal folk in health insurance” line. Really? On the occasions I have health insurance, my premiums go toward the expenses of those with prostate cancer, diabetes, fertility issues, etc. None of which apply to ME. So, really… save it.

@KNOWITALL You know that tuna is over $1.50 a can where I live? Pound for pound I can go catch my own damn tuna for less than that.

@Dutchess_III
Hamburger meat: $3.59/lb, only sold in 1½ lb or greater packages.
Burger buns: If you’re lucky, $1.00
Onion: $2.99/lb
Ketchup: $2 a bottle
Mustard: $1 a bottle.
Pickles: $2.50 a jar.
Cheese: $2.50 for a packages of 16 slices.

Nope.

Happy Meals are $1.99 on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

@Dutchess_III Even if I buy Boston Burger, which is cheaper than hamburger, for $5 for 2lbs, I use that for at least 3–4 dinners, if just me and hubsy. Buns? Who buys buns? Bread baby, and then only if your butt can afford the carbs lol.

Seriously, even when hubsy can’t work, I got the bills covered, gas, cigs, etc…but food & entertainment are the things we sacrifice.

Mac N cheese is often on sale for less than $1. Tuna here is on sale for .85 cents a can. We can go fishing and eat the fish for free at a local pond. I buy chicken loaded with bad stuff because it’s $3 less than Smart Chicken, which is healthier. Cereal and milk and breakfast foods have got us through many a week when he was unable to work (and yeah, he’s home again this week, another accident.)

Don’t forget Cup-O-Noodles, the $0.27 lunch! (and dinner, and breakfast…) Sodium? What sodium?

You also have to factor in that in many urban areas, grocery stores are not within walking distance or on reliable bus lines. This has been a problem for decades now and there are social welfare groups trying to entice grocery stores to come to more urban areas and open up between the fast food places.

If you are poor enough not to have a car in many places, you can’t even go to the grocery store. Also when I was at my poorest, I didn’t even have a stove. I only had a mini fridge and a microwave—and no place really to prepare the food.

Those people don’t want to take responsibility for their actions. It is far easier just to point fingers.

There was an article in the NY Times about a year ago, about obesity. It stated that studies show that it takes less calories to keep obese people obese and for obese who have lost weight to regain it, than it takes for thin people to become obese. I will find the link and post.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

@Seek_Kolinahr lets do this..let’s break it down. Using your prices (which I rounded up to the whole dollar) just the meat and the buns breaks down to $.62 per burger. The ketchup and the mustard are hard to factor in, but the cost of each serving is literally pennies. Plus most of us already have ketchup and mustard in the fridge. The onion…again, using McD’s portions you’d use about 1/50th of the onion, again, pennies.
So I disagree. You can make hamburgers for less than $1.00 per. Plus have all kinds of left overs to use in other meals. I didn’t make burgers very often (I used stretchers in my hamburger to make it go farther,) but when I did I used maybe ½ a pound and used the other half later in spaghetti sauce or meatloaf, which we could eat on for a couple of days.

(I’d use Raman noodles for my mac and cheese, using Velveeta cheese and milk. It’s really good! Really processed, but good! Cheaper than buying boxed Mac and cheese too.)

Yeah. Too bad you can’t buy the meat and buns one burger at a time.

And it also requires refrigeration and a stove or grill in order to make a burger happen. Many people – more than most of society wants to admit – doesn’t have that.

And Velveeta is over $4.00 a box. Way too dear.

@KNOWITALL what in the world does your hubs do that he gets in so many accidents? Is he a professional bungie jumper or something??

Yes, Velveeta is expensive but it goes a loooong way.

Anyway, I had food stamps so I didn’t have to worry about the cost of the food I bought…but I did anyway. When you worry constantly about money it’s hard to shut your brain off on command.

Since we’re still talking about prices, here’s another dollar store thing.

At the grocery store, a bag of chips costs near close to five dollars with tax, (Canada has uber tax, remember) and said bags are only half filled with snacks, if that.
Went to the dollar store a few days ago, (where I also got the noodles and sodas) and found a bag of pretzels for seventy five cents, and it was pretty much entirely filled with pretzels. Only about an inch of the bag had air in it. The bag was as big as the chip bags, too. I’m talking about family size, here, not the little bags. So why the hell would I buy a bag of chips for five bucks when I can get pretzels for 75 cents and it has three times more food in it? Is it a brand thing? Do people not enjoy pretzels? Are pretzels easier to fit in bags than chips are?

@Dutchess_III He’s Danger Prone Daphne. I told him I was going to get two more jobs, make him stay home in bubble wrap. I’m so tired of medical bills, at least this was workers comp since it happened at work. He does lawncare and landscaping, and drywall finishing, too. I think his mom smoked and drank with him, he’s just not a very healthy person.

@Dutchess_III: Agreed about the per burger cost, but if someone only HAS a dollar or two in their pocket, it’s not going to go far in the supermarket toward getting bun(s), burger meat, etc.

This is like some food auction where the guy yells out random prices speaking incredibly quickly, like Donald Duck on steroids.

IDK @Symbeline, although I’ve always avoided chips in general (my hubby is a big chip fan, and when we first got together he was a quite surprised at the fact that the big bag of chips he’d put on the counter went literally untouched except by him. It sat there for a couple of weeks, and I had teenagers at home.) Pretzels aren’t as bad for you as fried potato chips, I’d think, but there is a lot of salt on them (and on chips too.)

That really can be a dangerous profession. Had a guy here just last week who died when he had a tree trimming accident. Hope he feels better soon. Go buy him some chips and pop!

@jca That’s true, but I guess that’s where planning ahead comes in. Also, you still have a choice of what to buy with that $2.00…a candy bar or a small bag of Chex Mix.

@ucme LOL!

@ucme What are prices like across the pond?

Ha ha, @ucme

It’s kind of funny. For mathematical calculations, my brain sucks. But I know the average price of just about any item on my local grocery’s shelf, and the difference between Walmart, Publix and Aldi.

You’ve never been poor, have you?

Starve yourself for 2–3 days so that you can afford the gas to get to work so that you can pay your rent (but not your heat; that will have to wait a couple of weeks because the power company gave you a disconnect notice) and tell me if you’re willing to pay 2–5 times as much for food then! Also bear in mind that not everywhere has a low cost of living; when the 99¢ value menu is $1.29, you can imagine what real food costs.

@Dutchess_III: We’re not talking candy bars and Chex Mix, we were talking hamburgers made at home vs. McDonald’s Dollar menu, I thought.

@KNOWITALL They don’t call us “rip off Britain” for nothing, just in case that didn’t translate well, it refers to the fact that just about everything costs more over here, even compared to mainland Europe…you can’t afford to be poor over here.

@jerv Yes, I’ve been poor. Plus we already determined that you can make the same food at home more cheaply than buying fast food. Here is a good article on that.

Well, yeah. I see your point on that @jca. You can’t buy the fixings for homemade burgers for a couple of bucks because they don’t sell them in small enough portions (and if they did, of course, it wouldn’t be cost effective.) But the overall question was why do people blame junk food for “making” people fat. My point was, people have a choice of what they put in their mouth.

The point is that there isn’t much of a choice when bad food is cheap (compared to good food). If you’re poor, you have to buy bad food or starve and die.
So…be overweight, unhealthy and ugly to society…or be skinny, starving and dying (but at last you’ll look good going down).

@Dutchess_III: The article I linked above, I didn’t read for at least 9 months, but if I recall correctly, the studies done showed that formerly obese people could exercise excessively and still gain weight, compared to thin people. So it’s not all about what people eat, burgers, Chex Mix, etc.

Another problem is, even though it’s cheaper, you can’t go home over your lunch and fry up a burger, french fries and make a shake and have time to eat it all. Plus it’s a hassle.

@ucme Oh, I never heard that phrase before. You can’t afford to be poor, that’s a good one!

Wheeeeeeeee….look at all the hungry folks standing in line waiting to answer :D
Shit, everyone had answered before I fini…oh never mind.

Who can afford shakes?

I’ll go look @jca.

The people who have $10 burning a hole in their pocket @Seek_Kolinahr. (Their shakes aren’t any good any more. They put a ton of whipped cream on them. Yuck.)

If you live in a homeless shelter (I’ve never lived in one but have seen many through my work with urban poor) there is either a kitchen where they have prepared food (i.e. mac and cheese, canned vegetables, etc.) or limited facilities in the room, along with food stamps (not much per person per month) so the cheaper food (i.e. mac and cheese at 50 cents per box, etc.) will be more popular than chopped meat at 5 or 6 dollars per pound, or whatever.

Forget the fact that it costs money to even stay in a homeless shelter.

@KNOWITALL It IS expensive to be poor! My fridge crapped out on me once. No way did I have the money to buy another one, not even at a garage sale. I spent about a month buying bags of ice and putting them in the small freezer compartment of the fridge so I could still have milk and cheese. That ice got expensive! You spend a little here and a little there because you can’t afford to buy in bulk, and over time you end up paying more than you would if you had the money to buy in bulk.
It’s really a catch 22 being poor.

I don’t have much clue about food prices, i’m the guy who goes shopping with his wife & mucks about on the trolley/kart who comes in useful when it’s time to pay.

@Dutchess_III Just a question, and feel free to ignore it:

If you have been poor, and know the struggles of being poor, why do you ask so many questions that are so discriminatory and accusatory to those who are currently in that situation?

Hey, we just bought a new fridge freezer today, cash up front…no fucking food in it yet though, coz i’m bloody skint :D

The question wasn’t directed at poor people @Seek_Kolinahr. It just went that direction.

@Dutchess_III In reality, most of us in the lower middle classes are only a paycheck or two away from poverty and homelessness. Due to my childhood, I crave stability so for me to be poor, you know from hubsy’s illnesses, etc…is very hard for me.

Even though I love him, God is the only thing that keeps me from leaving sometimes, and knowing that makes me feel about an inch tall. It’s like my heart battling my brain, and my inner child fighting with everyone for the man she loves…lol

I’m so sorry @KNOWITALL. It must be so hard. I wish he’d get a different kind of job.

We were looking at a house once, and a lady used her broken deep freeze to store out of season clothes in. I thought that was a really good idea!

@Dutchess_III Ha yeah, we did derail this thread pretty bad. XD I’m not sure, but I think that’s pretty much my fault. sorry But fuck MacDonald’s, either way.

Also, everything @jerv said. Pisses me off that three quarters of my pay is used so that I’m able to work. It’s like, what the hell, man?

U makea me LOL @Symbeline! :)

I’m glad I live in a small town. There is no place I couldn’t walk to if I needed to or wanted to. Walked to work plenty of times when I didn’t have gas to put in the car (or sometimes I walked just because I wanted to.)

I can’t imagine some of the commutes, like in Seattle. An hour or more one way. Crazy.

Yep. $200 in gas, minimum, for one month. 45 minute commute, and that’s if I leave early enough to get to work 2 hours early and miss the real rush hour.

Ick!

wow, 57 comments in two hours

I think we are overlooking the power of advertising. People have a hard time separating what they want from what they are told to want. There is also the chemicals that are put in many fast foods that make them exceptionally desirable, to the point of being addictive.

@YARNLADY I was told that McD’s even puts sugar in the salad water? Surely not?!

I know that advertising is powerful, but no one MAKES these people say the words “Supersize everything please.” I’ve had McD’s breakfast every weekday morning for 4 years. I don’t think it was addicting, but it was good!

Let’s check snopes on that one @KNOWITALL. That and the sugar on the fries claim. BRB.

SuperSize ended over ten years ago. Just throwing that out there.

French fries are full of carbs and starch. They don’t need to add extra sugar.

And they’re frakking delicious. Mmm… oilypotatosalt.

@Dutchess_III Nobody has to say that – the clerk who takes your order asks and all you have to do is say “yes” just like you have been conditioned to say.

I think it’s now just considered a “large” size on the menu now Seek.

I don’t think they put sugar on their fries. As far as sugar in the salads, I would assume the dressings contain the sugar.

I think the sugar in question in McDonalds’ refers to the corn products used to make the bread, the ketchup, the dressings, etc.

You can say “No,” just as easily @YARNLADY. It’s your choice.

No, @Dutchess_III Supersize was bigger than “large” and hasn’t been a part of the menu since before I worked there over ten years ago.

http://thenakedlabel.com/blog/2009/03/10/undressing-the-mcdonalds-salad/

Looks like the fries are coated in sugar to brown them better.

Well, according to this source wiki some franchises still offer it. The one here does.
Other stores that followed McD’s lead just put them on the menu: ”Wendy’s discontinued use of their Biggie trademark in 2006, but increased regular portion sizes to match previous Biggie sizes. In 2010, Burger King rearranged their menu in a similar fashion.”

I didn’t see anything in your link about the fries @KNOWITALL.

@Dutchess_III I know, it was on another link and now I can’t find it….

I can’t imagine why they would do that. I’ll go look too (there was nothing on Snopes about it.)

@Dutchess_III Google

I didn’t see anything current about McD’s fries having sugar. I would guess the McDonald’s site would be the next thing to try.

This touches on the use of sugar to create more of a meat flavor. “The development of new fermentation techniques, along with new techniques for heating mixtures of sugar and amino acids, have led to the creation of much more realistic meat flavors.” I don’t know how the chemistry in that would work.

McDonalds use to fry their potatoes in beef tallow and they were the BEST. They were SO good. Then people bitched and bitched so they changed to vegetable oil in 1990, but they lost that unique flavor. So they went looking for ways to bring it back without use beef tallow. They haven’t succeeded, IMO.

I WANT MCD’S OLD FRIES BACK!!!!

http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/food/product_nutrition.snackssides.120.Small-French-Fries.html

Sugars 0 grams.

@Dutchess_III Ingredients must be a lot cheaper where you live then. I know @Seek_Kolinahr is getting a bargain compared to anywhere I’ve ever lived.

Where do you live @jerv?

You know ever since I heard about the pink slime or whatever I can’t eat McDonald’s anymore. I mean pink slime just sounds so gross y’know?

@jerv We do have a fairly low cost of living here in the Tampa Bay area, it’s true. However, the vast majority of jobs in this area pay well below $10 an hour, and full time is hard to come by. There is just no money here.

Yeah, that silly pink slime scare. That was so dumb.

@Dutchess_III Whoa so it wasn’t real? I really hope it wasn’t, dude. Please tell me it wasn’t real!

Didn’t McD’s say they were stopping the pink slime?

Oh, it was real, but vastly over-sensationalized. Here is some info on it.

Yeah, in 2003 @jca long before the crap hit the fan over the pink slime.

http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/141926/the_truth_about_pink_slime

What McDonalds says about the pink slime.

Three are a number of reasons for the fattening of America (and the Western World):

1. Cheap food tends to be bad for you. Full of carbohydrates.
2. Food manufacturers put sugar and salt in everything—even foods you would not suspect it in.
3. People have more time constraints and tend to cook less fresh food thus ending up with more sugar and salt in packaged “convenience” foods.
4. People exercise less and are on computers or watching something more.

@marinelife I wonder what the collective weighs….lol

@KNOWITALL I’ve put on 25 lbs since I found Fluther and it replaced my morning exercise routine.

We flat just don’t work as hard as we used to. We don’t need to chop kindling for heat or for cooking. We flip a switch. We drive 3 blocks to go to the store instead of walking or riding a bike. We don’t have to cook. Just throw something in the microwave. We take elevators instead of stairs. It all adds up.

Fluther and FB are not good for the hips, LOL.

True dat!

@jonsblond Seriously? You can sit on an exercise ball and still fluther, may be worth it to you to check it out, plus it’s fun.

@KNOWITALL Nope. I need aerobics. I just need to get off the computer and then I’ll be fine. :)

@jonsblond Well you know the best exercise is sex….lol

Whatever you do, don’t put your husband on an exercise ball @KNOWITALL!

@Dutchess_III Girl, you know that’s right ! He’d probably find a way to fall out the french doors and break a leg on the patio or something, you’re right!!

I have a son just like him!

@Dutchess_III Sorry. I need to take out a life insurance policy on himor buy stock in health insurance companies or something. Did you drink and smoke while pregnant by chance?

No. Why?

@Dutchess_III I think his mom did, he was the baby boy.

I think some people are just accident prone just because they are. My sister was accident prone.

I don’t think obesity is a great problem for the truly poor street people. I rarely see an overweight person sleeping on the street. I think a lot of people make poor choices for food. I am not so arrogant as to think they are too dumb to know what is good for them or not, I think they make choices, end of story. There is nothing much cheaper than a bag of frozen veg, potatoes and a piece of chicken which will make a good stew and provide meals for at least a couple of days. And there are plenty of fat people who are not poor, so it just can’t all be blamed on cost of food.

@Dutchess_III Seattle.

I compared Seattle to Tampa for cost of living and this might give you a clue.

Exactly @rooeytoo.

I have family in Seattle. I know the cost of living is really high, but the wages are higher too.

Hey…do that cost comparison with Wichita, Kansas.

Ugh I wish I was here for this. Well anyways, I didn’t read all of the posts but I got pretty far.
Just because I like doing math and partially for my benefit, too, I calculated the cost of how much a hamburger would be, based on the ground beef I buy, in comparison to McDonalds’s “McDouble”. I buy ground chuck every time I go grocery shopping because it’s cheap and has a lot of protein. I am holding the grocery receipt in my hand right now, and it says $2.49/lb for 80/20. My friend works at McDonalds and I remember him saying that the basic hamburger is 1/8 of a lb, or 2oz. I personally think they’re less than that, but we’ll give McDonalds the benefit of the doubt. Hamburger buns cost $1.50 for 8.
I’ll do the math for a “McDouble”, which is (probably less than) ¼ of a lb:
$2.49/4=$0.6225
$1.50/8=$0.1875
$0.6225+$0.1875=$0.81
I doubt the condiments will equal more than 19¢.
You also have to consider the fact that the store-bought stuff is so much healthier and much less processed than the McDonalds stuff. I guess as others have said, the convenience makes it worth the price. And if someone is so short for money at one particular moment, it only makes sense to spend it on that. But a person that poor would not be obese, so their case would be irrelevant.
This may sound crazy, and I am not sure if it is true or not, but I’ve heard somewhere that obesity can be something out of a person’s control, like a disease. If it is true, I would guess that it has something to do with metabolism. The person’s past eating habits may also be a factor in it as well.

That’s about what I came up with too @dxs. I figured about ¼ pound.
However, you might be surprised about the standards that McD has for their beef. They import the beef from Australia and New Zealand because the cattle are free range, leaner, and aren’t shot full of antibiotics like American beef is. Source

I’ve read all the answers and I know this derailment has been more than covered, but you CAN go to the meat counter and ask for a dollar amount of ground beef rather than a weight amt. “I need $2 worth of ground chuck, please.” Then a dollar store loaf of bread, add some with an egg to the meat to stretch it, steal condiment packages from McDonalds, and voila! Cheaper than fast food (but not nearly as tasty)

I work in a hospital and the staff/visitor cafeteria is gawd-awful and actively discourages healthy eating.
A (terrible) cheeseburger and (decent) fries will set you back $3.49.
A moderate plate from the salad bar (priced at $,49/ounce) will cost you upwards of $7.

Speaking of salad bars, those prewashed/bagged salad mixes are sprayed with polyethylene glycol which keeps them fresh-looking but also bland in flavor. You’ll also see polyethylene gylcol dispensed as a laxative (PEG) and in your favorite brand of “personal lubricant”.

Chew on that info the next time you opt for healthy choices. Mmmm, yummy.

@Dutchess_III I remember someone posting that in another thread. Do you know the protein-to-fat ratio for McDonalds beef?

That was me @dxs. I guess I can find out…hang on.

I’m still looking…I found this which is kind of interesting (but it doesn’t mention McDonalds. I just thought it was interesting!)

@Dutchess_III According to their website, it is 100% pure beef link

Found this comment: “The burgers tend to be fattier than the chicken – but are still healthier than burgers at other fast food restaurants.” from here

Sure it’s pure beef. I have no doubts about that, but all beef has some fat content. I just don’t know the ratio.

You may be right. I read it as 100/0 ratio…pure beef. It was loaded words to me.
Regarding your other link, it was stuff I already knew since I’m a pretty healthy eater. I know the difference between good and bad fats, where artificial flavorings and preservatives are and that buying fancy things like small servings or trail mix is a bad deal. I don’t think you should never buy these things, though. It’s too limited. High mercury? I’m not eating swordfish for every meal! This stuff won’t kill me. I don’t live on junk food.

You can extrapolate the data. ¼ pound = approx 120 grams pre-cooked weight.
A cooked McD’s Quarter Pounder weighs 69 grams. So it loses approximately 42.5% of it’s original weight during cooking. Some of that is water, but I’d still guess 80/20 meat/fat ratio would be being generous.

I wish they’d bring back the evil beef fat they used to cook their fries in!

That isn’t bad @Blueroses. Did you weigh a Quarter Pounder patty?? :)

@Dutchess_III No, I didn’t personally. It’s in a heart-health flyer we have at the hospital and I just did a random sampling of websites to verify. All are pretty close and I took the average.

Good work there, @Blueroses!

This is a tough one. In a sense I agree with you @Dutchess_III in so far as that it is your choice what you decide to put in your body but there is more to it then that. I don’t think half the foods sold in this country should be legal. The amount of chemicals pumped into our food is obscene and as others have illustrated in this thread are only there to cover the horrible taste of said food or to make it more addicting for the consumer.

I’ve been in the same boat as others where you realize hmmm soo I have 20 bucks to last me the next 5 days and at least half of this is going to gas so I can get to and from work. Guess I’ll be hitting up the dollar menu for the next couple days.

One of the things I really loved about Central America was how much better all the food tasted and how much healthier it all was since it wasn’t processed like stuff here is. HFCS’ are essentially unheard of (found it in some imported soda) but everything else it was just real sugar. It was also incredibly cheap to buy fresh ingredients and very expensive to buy junk food(since most was imported.) The nice outcome of that was you would want a late night snack and maybe crave some chips but then you see the price and think ya know what, too expensive, I’ll just eat a mango instead.

I can proudly say I haven’t eaten any fast food since jan 2012 :)

People blame the price of food for making people fat because it’s true. It’s a fact that the processed crap groceries are much cheaper than the healthy food. I’ve experimented with this before, to get my mom off my back, because she kept telling me it’s not expensive to eat all organic. I bought a cart full of healthy foods, most of it from the organic section, comparable to what I would normally buy for a week. My grocery bill was triple what it usually is.

So, many people buy the cheaper foods, because it’s what they can afford, but the cheaper foods have no nutritional value and just make you gain weight because they’re nothing but fillers (carbs). I shop on a budget for four people, one of which eats enough for two people, so I’m really shopping for five. I can’t always afford to buy the healthier items, so I have weight-loss yo-yo issues. You can’t lose weight when you’re eating sugars and carbs, which is what pretty much all the cheaper food is.

Not everyone has weight issues because of eating too much. I eat small-normal sized meals. I have weight issues because what I can usually afford is junk.

TL;DR Because it’s true.

K, but you are in control of how much junk you eat, right?

I never noticed any weight problems in your pictures @WillWorkForChocolate…

I don’t think you read my post right. I’m not saying I cram my face with junk foods like chips, candy, etc… I’m saying that cheap food is junk, so when I cook meals, I’m cooking junk.

I also pointed out that I eat small-normal sized meals. But even my small meals are still junk, because it’s what’s affordable.

Don’t worry, @WillWorkForChocolate . You’re safe in this discussion. You can eat cheap junk—as long as you don’t LOOK like it. That seems to be the actual issue here. Nobody can see what it’s doing to your cholesterol levels, liver, etc., so that’s okay. :)

My husband has lost over 40 pounds, I’m heading toward 20. We’ve stopped eating fast food on a regular basis. We’ve had to eat fast food a couple of times in the past four or five months since we’ve changed our eating habits. We ate the McDonald wraps and they were actually pretty good.

We’ve started eating a fresh fruit and vegetables every day and we’ve cut out bread, cookies, junk food and other crap. My grocery bill is much, much smaller. The extra costs of the fresh veggies, fruits and other “healthier” foods is a trade-off for the savings of not eating out and buying cookies, lots of expensive meat and snakes. I’ve cut out a great deal of the beef we were eating and we don’t even notice-except for the weight loss.

We grill portabella mushrooms instead of hamburgers, for example.

Dude, this is totally thread of the day. :)

I’m laughing at myself. We ate snakes. Mmmm

But @WillWorkForChocolate…. if I understand what you’re saying, the “small normal sized meals” are giving you more calories than you need, so why not eat even smaller portions?

@bkcunningham Nice. :)

At Sam’s Club, you can buy an already cooked (delicious) rotisserie chicken cheaper than you can buy a uncooked roasting hen.

@Dutchess_III That doesn’t make any sense. If my meals got any smaller than they are, I’d always be hungry and miserable. Imagine what you put on a plate for a five year old to eat. That’s about the size of what I eat.

This thread makes me feel rich.

So…“feeling full” is the thing? Bread will do that, and it’s not bad for you.

@bkcunningham: Yes, and I know from going to Sam’s and Costco and looking at the ingredients on those cooked chickens that they have a pretty decent amount of sodium in them, whereas the uncooked chicken does not. Another example of how it’s cheaper to buy unhealthy food than to buy healthy food.

That is wrong on so many levels, @jca. I’ve never even thought about looking at the ingredients on a rotisserie chicken, for heaven’s sake. It just goes to show you how horrible our eating habits were before. My husband’s blood pressure is finally under control and we eat at least one of the rotisserie chickens every month. EDIT: One chicken can be about three or more meals for the two of us. Maybe that is why it hasn’t killed us yet.

@Dutchess_III Eating a lot of bread will make you fat, hence all the low carb diets. Breads, pastas, rices… Unless they’re the expensive kind, made with healthy ingredients, they are bad for you.

@WillWorkForChocolate pasta?!

Yes. Eating A LOT of bread will make you fat. So will eating a lot of anything. So don’t eat a lot. Eat a little. I often have a roll (or 2) for lunch. One roll with dinner will help you feel full.

How do “expensive” “healthy” rolls and pasta differ from inexpensive rolls and pasta as far as calorie / nutrition content?

The US government has just given Monsanto carte blanche to do what it wants to genetically modify foods and they cannot be sued. It is apparent that what is in the processed and GMO food chain is helping to cause obesity as the rise in obesity began about the time that foods
began to be modified. It also correlates with the rise in IBS, colon cancers, and celiac disease…all diseases that affect digestion. Not everyone has this reaction, but many are developing these debilitating diseases along with rising weight.

In the UK we are fortunate because organic and non GMO foods are championed…though with what has gone on in the US, we may not be safe for much longer. For many years, we have been told to “buy local” and buy from local farmers. We have great farmers markets and fresh food available at reasonable prices here. We also have grocery stores that cook fresh
food daily, in meals, and they are refrigerated (not frozen) so you can pick up full balanced meals on your way home from work to cook and serve. It is not fast food because the meals are nutritionally balanced…you can buy an entree of any meat or vegetarian dish (Indian, Greek, Morrocan, Chinese or traditional British) and then add a fresh vegetable or two also of your choice. In America, this sort of thing is not really available. The closest thing may be something from Whole Foods and that is usually costly. The UK really does excel at having decent and wholesome food available in most shops.

It is now well known that processed foods are modified by manufacturers to cause addictions or rather the additives in many junk foods are addictive…ever try to eat just one? (Remember that old advert….“bet you can’t eat just one!”) Well, honestly, you cannot…literally…. as many additives affect people like a drug. Now, some folks will be able to manage themselves just as not all people who drink are alcoholics. But if a person has a sensitivity to a certain additive, then, they will probably not be able to curb their craving well (potato chips, chocolate, Coke, Twinkies, whatever.)

Obesity is a complex issue. It has many levels…the food chain, food processing, GMOs, additives in junk food and emotions as in eating as a substitute for unresolved issues…or stuffing emotions. Stopping eating is not possible, one has to eat…it is not like alcohol.

Eating less will produce weight loss, but in a society where food is a drug on all levels
it is not easy to do…you have to read labels, be informed, and have supportive people
around. A lot of people just give up before they start. There are a lot of people who are basically allergic to most of the junk food they eat and the inflammatory conditions produced by this is what is making them obese. If they stop eating fast food/processed foods…and go fresh or raw and cut out anything in a box or packet…they can reverse their condition.

Basically, eating less does work…but getting there is a complex minefield for a lot of people. And today it is not being helped by the increasing chemicalization of foods now affecting our health in the most dire ways possible.

And yes, a box of processed mac and cheese will be less than a dinner of brown rice and steamed veggies. But not by a lot.

Hey Darling you should have been in the GMO thread. I was crucified for saying I was not convinced it was harmless. And I was afraid to introduce that thought into this thread. But undoubtedly the beef, veg etc we eat today is not the same as it was years ago and it is definitely contributing to the obesity problem. And the GMO stuff is on my list of stuff to avoid.

And the same thing is happening to our pets because they are being fed fat sprayed garbage from a bag because vets are pushing it???

@Dutchess_III Wages that mivch higher… you really crack me up! You think everybody here works for Boeing or Microsoft! Wow! Okay, I’m leaving this thread and moving on to one where the OP is actually living in reality, preferably one that doesn’t have naysaying of every reply that doesn’t fit their preconceived notions. I gave an answer, but you wanted an argument; I’m through with that game!

I’m not one of those people.

@rooeytoo – you weren’t crucified for saying it was harmful, you were asked to show evidence of your claims. You refused to do this, so your claims were dismissed.

I linked to the information put out by the Victorian government but that was not satisfactory for the learned opponents whose minds probably could not be changed no matter what evidence was provided. But thank you once again @seek kolinar for pointing out my problems and showing me the error of my ways. I am such a better person with your help. Now Darling I reiterate, you better duck or maybe seek doesn’t consider herself an intellectual superior to you and you will come out okay!

You were asked to provide evidence, not opinion. Opinions are not evidence.

@Seek kolinarh Thank you once again. Now please don’t start sending me PM’s again. As always you are right and I bow to your gracious corrections. There is no need to keep going over it. That is called control and is a sign of mental illness.

And might I add there is NO evidence of long tern effects because there has been no long term large scale usage. Therefore it is all opinion.

@rooeytoo…Was evidence provided for the opposing view? The info and statistics are available in the UK. In the USA, the campaign to
genetically modify food is in full swing. Like the push for tobacco, the full effects will not be uncovered for a generation…though they are evident now, but are being passed off as
caused by other factors. We are allowing the planet to be poisoned. Funny how everyone is up in arms about climate change, while the same people are allowing a corporation to control all the crops on earth and allowing them to outlaw seeds not produced by them…genetically modified seeds. The poor farmers in third world countries made their living by harvesting seeds from year to year and replanting them. Now, they are being forced to buy seed, and they cannot afford to do so. It is agricultural genocide. In Europe and in the UK, we are aware of this.

You take a seed, you inject it with a chemical to alter its DNA. It is no longer a natural substance.

One can provide all the evidence possible, but it is not going to make a difference. The US government has signed on the dotted line. People have drawn lines and will not see the opposite side. It is how it is.

Some links…..

Watch the documentary “Food, Inc” to see how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Here is an article with links (as one example):

link

link

A scientist who was pro GMO and now not:

link

Profits above Human Health:
link

There are thousands of horror stories and mounting lawsuits. No evidence necessary, as a search on Google will provide more info than needed.

It is not my style to bully anyone into thinking my way. Nor do I fancy being bullied. This is why this is a forum. It is for dignified discussion, not intimidation. @Seek_Kolinahr is a long time
member and entitled to her view.

In the UK, thankfully, we are still maintaining a vigil for clean non-GMO food…not altered, not Frankenfood. I hope that in Victoria, you are as well. It is a noble cause.

I will not be revisiting this thread. I have said my peace and may the Truth win in the end.
Whatever that truth may be.

@rooeytoo…btw…Kudos for your courage.

God bless all of us…everywhere.

Now @DarlingRhadamanthus…has definitely left the thread.

@DarlingRhadamanthus – Thank you and Long live the Queen!!!

I’ll reply to @DarlingRhadamanthus even though she kind of dropped her comments and bailed.

First of all: an order to Google your viewpoint does not count as evidence. If you make a claim you must back it up. This is called “burden of proof”.

As said in the other thread by @rarebear and myself: We do not know whether GMO foods cause longterm harm to humans. That does not mean that they do. It means we do not know. We do not have enough information to make a determination at this time. Now, if there has been a study that proves that there is a harmful substance in GMO foods that appears in sufficient quantities to actually cause harm during normal usage, I would love to see it. Really. My views actually change when evidence is presented that differs from my current stance.

As far as the links you provided:

Food, Inc. is a documentary. Not scientific evidence. It also does not provide sources for any of its claims, at least as not as far as I’ve seen. It’s entertaining and informative, but leaves the viewer with a lot of researching to do if they want to verify the claims, and there’s no guarantee anything said there is true.

The WikiLeaks article and the globalresearch.ca is not referencing scientific evidence, it’s referencing Monsanto’s political activity. In the other thread @rarebear and I conceded that the politics involved in GMO foods are undesirable. However that does not inherently make them unsafe for consumption.

The opinion of one scientist does not constitute evidence. The first paragraph of the article states: “There is, however, a growing body of scientific research – done mostly in Europe, Russia, and other countries – showing that diets containing engineered corn or soya cause serious health problems in laboratory mice and rats.” That is what I want to see. That research. Was it sourced in the article? Nope.

The “Profits Above Human Health” globalresearch.ca article is completely an opinion piece and does not provide sources beyond one person’s obviously biased book.

@rooeytoo I’m beyond tired of your sarcasm and drama. It would be amenable to me if we agreed to stay away from each other from now on.

@Seek_Kolinahr I am beyond tired of your overbearing superior attitude and your apparent need to correct and inform me of my transgressions. So yes, although remember I have asked you before to let me the hell alone and you seemed to have trouble doing that, but perhaps it will be more successful now that it is your idea. Will fit in better with your need to control!

@DarlingRhadamanthus – I told you it wouldn’t suit. I think it has to be signed by a researcher from the USA who is on the payroll of Monsanto before it becomes suitable evidence for seek and her mate. I say let them eat it and see how they are in 20 years. They both admit no one knows about the safety of long term consumption but for some reason think their positive speculation is preferable to a more cautious approach and keep demanding evidence that doesn’t exist. But their non existent evidence is again preferable. Beats me???

We’re agreed, then.

Wow. Glad I went to bed when I did!

Looks like @jerv has left the building, but I’d like to respond to his (angry) comment belittling me for saying wages in Seattle are higher. I was just repeating what my sister told me several years ago when she moved there. He was right to question me, however, because that’s just something someone who has lived both in Kansas and in Washington said. I did a little more research:

From This US Department of Labor website, comparing wages per state for 2012:
The average annual wages in Washington state are $51, 150 or $24.59 hourly.
For my field, education, the average teaching salary is $101, 390.

In Kansas the annual wages are $40,360 or $19.53 / hr.
For my field, education, the average teaching salary is $79, 160.

Average doesn’t tell you anything. I’m an administrative assistant, and I’m trying to manage a household on $12 per hour, in Florida. My husband is self-employed, but when there’s no work there’s no work. There’s been essentially no work for five years, on and off.

Well, Seek, an “average” is an average. But I know what you’re saying…I owned my own business for 4 years. It was dreadful. I don’t think we even made minimum wage, so that’s well below the “average.” But….$12.00 an hour would be a really good wage around here. I mean, as a certified teacher, with a college degree the most I’ve made to date is $13.50. I hired in at $9.00. Average wages here for an admin assistant here are probably $9.00. BUT I think food and housing and stuff is cheaper here.

@Dutchess_III: I posted a Q on here a few months ago about my daughter’s kindergarten teacher’s salary being in the range of $127k annually. Not too shabby. I think I’m in the wrong field.

I’m actually incredibly lucky to have the $12 that I get. This job seriously pisses me off sometimes, but I can’t apply anywhere else because I’m literally barely surviving on what I make here, and everywhere else pays even less. Wage slavery, anyone?

Damn, @jca. I think they top out at about $75 K, and that’s after years of experience and getting a Masters and yadda yadda yadda. Where do you live?

I feel for ya Seek.

Dude, this is still happenin’?

And I’ll just have to throw in there; yes, wage slavery. I make that too, about twelve bucks an hour but I don’t always get 40 hours a week. It’s pretty ass knowing that like, you work your ass off for 370 bucks a week. Just glad I don’t have a home or a kid like Seek does. Don’t know how I’d manage, can barely manage myself. lol

@Dutchess_III The next time you go grocery shopping, compare the nutritional content between regular breads and pastas, and the healthy breads and pastas. I’m not talking about calories, dear, I’m talking about the actual difference between the two, and why the healthier breads, pastas and rices are so much better for you. Again, it has nothing to do with the calories, and everything to do with the junk shit the good carbs are missing. That’s why they’re more expensive and that’s why I can’t buy them most of the time.

@Dutchess_III:
http://www.fluther.com/155735/do-you-think-this-is-a-crazy-salary-for-a-kindergarten/

I will pm you and tell you where I live.

Reminds me of this sketch ;-}

I once got evicted from my rolled up newspaper.

@Symbeline @Seek_Kolinahr It’s the new corporate thing, wage slavery. You can’t afford to leave, there aren’t a whole lot of jobs still, but the stockholders still see a profit. Only people it sucks for is we worker bees.

Newspaper? I got evicted from my cardboard tube that’s left over when all the toilet roll’s been used.

I got evicted from an apartment two months after I moved out, and now I can’t get another apartment complex to rent to me.

Crap, Seek.

How do you get evicted after you move out? I think she joking.

Nope, not joking. My upstairs neighbor, who moved out the same day as me, had an eviction filed on them as well.

Of course, because we had already moved out, we didn’t get the notice that was taped to the door, so the court date showed up before we found out about the filing. If you don’t show up to argue against the complex, you automagically lose.

Life in the ghetto…

What can you do?

Nothing. It’s there.

Additionally funny, the upstairs neighbor was the super of the property. His rent was paid by the complex.

What did the apartment managers say?

That’s inSANE. Do you have any explanation?

It’s done. They said they never received notice that we moved out. Besides the fact that our lease was up, it was not renewed, and we had already turned in our keys. Two months prior. The apartment managers didn’t speak English.

That makes me mad! That kind of thing just sucks, especially when you don’t have the MONEY to get it straightened out. Small claims court tho, maybe? If you have $60.

Wait…did getting evicted make you get fat? Cause if not, we’ve derailed another thread. And I do not mind! Yeah. Lets talk about apartments for a while.

When I first started dating my future ex, he came over often with his 18 month old (who I adopted her when she was 6.) I didn’t think anything about it. But then I was going to move. The next apartment I checked into checked up on me—and refused to rent to me because I had a child. I said I didn’t have a child. They said there were complaints from my neighbors about a child crying. No body had EVER said a single word to me about it.

Hey @WillWorkForChocolate…. Could you give me an example of the name of a bread that is more nutritious than the cheap stuff I buy so I can compare them?

Ezekiel Bread is supposed to be really good. It’s like eight bucks a loaf, though. All made with sprouted grains.

What is a sprouted grain???

I see all kinds of wheat sprouting every were here! Acres and acres!

@Dutchess_III I know, right?! One of my male bff’s just moved to Ohio with an Ag degree and now is flying around the country analyzing crops and soil and all that. Apparently people are needed to fill those positions now out of our generation.

It’s a seed that has… sprouted.

I don’t know. Some people think sprouted grains are magical. As far as I’ve ever read on a non-biased source, they’re just about nutritionally identical to whole wheat breads, with maybe a tad more protein. Still, much better for you than white bread.

Do you guys get pease pudding over there?

I found a recipe for it:
2½ cups wheat berries
1½ cups spelt flour (which is just a type of wheat, neither good nor bad)
½ cup barley
½ cup millet
¼ cup dry green lentils
2 tablespoons dry great Northern beans
2 tablespoons dry kidney beans
2 tablespoons dried pinto beans
4 cups warm water (110 degrees F/45 degrees C)
1 cup honey
½ cup olive oil
2 (.25 ounce) packages active dry yeast
2 tablespoons salt

….Wow. Lotta salt, lotta oil LOTTA BEANS!!!! That bread has to be 500 calories a slice! And they’re dry beans to boot. How in the world could they possibly be soft enough to eat after only 45 – an hour of baking?

Want to hear my recipie?
Some flour
Some butter
Some beer
Pinch of salt
a buncha brown sugar.
More beer

It is SO good! (Rum does NOT make good bread. Just letting you know that now.)

@ucme No. Pease pudding hot, pease pudding cold. Pease pudding in the pot, 9 days old.

It’s fucking disgusting stuff, when I was a kid I had no idea it contained peas, thought it was called peace pudding…eaten in hippy camps.

EW! That sounds nasty! My ex hated peas. He said they looked like rabbit poop.

@Dutchess_III Ezekiel bread. You have to keep it in the fridge, though, or it goes bad fast. And it’s anywhere from $6—$8 per small loaf, depending on where you shop.

I posted the recipe for it above @WillWorkForChocolate

I like to make my own bread, then you know exactly what is in it. Pop it in the bread maker at night and in the morning, there it is! Much cheaper than buying it, except for the white bubble gum bread, that is cheap and disgusting.

I miss my bread maker if only for the heavenly scents I got to wake up to.

Yep, but I put mine outside because it is so noisy when it whacks that dough around. So the whole neighborhood smells nice!

I make my own dough, then put it into a mini-loaf pan, like a muffin pan, on the wells are square. I get about…8 (?) small, one person sized loves out of it. The kids get to help. :) What a wonderful mess!

@Dutchess_III Yeah, I saw. The problem is that I can buy three loaves of my normal bread for what it costs to even buy those ingredients and make the bread from scratch. Are you getting the point yet? Healthy foods, even those made from scratch are just too damned expensive, so people buy the junk shit they can afford, which makes them fat.

I understand what you’re saying. But I figure, hey, just have some cornbread and beans, or 7 bean soup with regular bread, and you get the same benefits. I also disagree that the ingredients are cost prohibitive. You could get 100 loaves of bread out of $15 of raw product! Beans are super, super cheap. I still can’t figure out how the beans soften up in 60 minutes of baking….? Also, I think that should read 2 TEAspoons of salt. I think 2 tablespoons had to have been a typo.

Living on a diet that is bean-based (i.e. primarily beans) sounds quite unappetizing, IMHO.

You may be able to get 30 loaves of cheap bread from $15 raw product.

Have you ever eaten Ezekiel bread?

@jca I have bean weeks. They aren’t particularly fun.

My mom’s sister had pinto beans as a side dish (sometimes it was the entree’) everyday, seven days a week, with supper along with her canned chow chow, stewed tomatoes, biscuits or cornbread, fried salt pork and whatever else was left over from breakfast and lunch as side dishes. Always. Back then, people bought in bulk because it was easier and cheaper. You ate beans because they didn’t need refrigeration for storage before they were cooked and they were affordable.

My mom was citified and had more money than my Aunt Sarah. We only had brown beans and cornbread once a week.

@bkcunningham I have. It tastes like cardboard. It’s very good for you, but it’s gross!

I agree @WillWorkForChocolate. I just threw that number out and it was way high. I know. But still, 30 loaves of bread for $15 is still only .50 a loaf. (How do the beans soften up in only an hour of cooking, is what I still want to know!)

Then you’ve never had my corn bread n beans @Seek_Kolinahr. Or my baked beans!

Oh, I love cornbread and beans. I’m just way too Yankee to actually cook them. Never had a good Southern lady bringing me up to cook such things. And it seems Southern cooking is less about the recipe than it should be.

You want me to cook New York Italian? I’m your girl. Want some stewed veggies and pot roast? I’m on it. Good Northern city-folk food.

For Mother’s Day I stewed up two large roasts, with tomatoes, carrots, onions and potatoes and 5 loaves of homemade bread. Everyone got full, and I had enough left over for 5 more meals for two. I think we’re going to break the last one out of the freezer today. That is the best stuff on Earth!

Rinse and pick thorough your Pinto beans, to pick out any bad ones and any rocks. (I put it in a strainer and pick up a handful at a time.) Put it in big pot of water, and set it to boil / simmer. After about 2 hours, you should have a foam on the top. Pour that water off, rinse the beans again and start simmering again. (I have this idea that the foam is what causes us to become gassy when we eat beans. I guess it works, because it doesn’t happen to us.) While that’s heating up, take bacon or any pork side, cut it up and put it in there too. Onions if you want. Salt, pepper to taste. Let it simmer ALL DAY. Eventually the liquid will thicken up and that’s it.

I love self-cooking foods. A bit of a hassle at the beginning, but then it’s on auto pilot.

@Dutchess_III Yeah, but that’s $.50 a loaf for the really cheap junk, not the good stuff.

@Seek_Kolinahr Cornbread (with real unsalted butter) and brown beans (with garlic) are a staple round heya. Add a few sliced fried potatoes with onions and a sliced tomato, mmmmhhmmmmm. At least once a month! Love me some roast, too, hellz yeah.

@Dutchess_III Guess what I’m going to put in the crock tonight, dang that sounds so good.

? Like, what cheap ingredients, @WillWorkForChocolate? I don’t think there is a higher “grade” of dried beans, and the rest, except for maybe the flour, is just generic stuff, like salt and honey and yeast and olive oil.

You talking roast or beans @KNOWITALL?

@Dutchess_III Beans, I don’t do roasts a lot unless it’s for company, hubsy doesn’t like leftovers (yeah, he’s a weirdo.)

@Dutchess_III I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying. I’m talking about making cheap bread in general, not Ezekiel bread. You might be able to get about 4–5 loaves of Ezekiel bread out of $15 of raw product, but that’s still $3 or more per loaf. The other issue is, I have neither the time nor the inclination to spend hours baking bread.

Sorry. I got ya. I was just estimating from the recipe I posted above. I wouldn’t want to spend a lot of time baking either (especially if it’s going to be gross and taste like cardboard!) although my bread maker makes it SO easy

OMG @KNOWITALL! Left over beans are better than the first day! And each day gets better So…how long you going to cook them? (And does your crock pot develop old mounted slides?)

@Dutchess_III Oh yeah sister, I eat them, no worries. He actually makes fun of me because I’ve always always loved beans, they’re like the perfect food for me. Kidney and Lima are my favorites, I could totally be meat-free fairly easily and still get my non-animal protein.

I put them on when I get home, soak, drain, fresh water, salt, garlic, leave on overnight, ready for lunch.
Have you ever had Mexican cornbread where you add peppers and corn, and cheese to the bread, omg it is phenomenal with beans.

There ya go! All night long!
What kind of peppers? It sounds good. I love corn and cheese and some peppers.

Ummm, the green chili’s, jalapeno’s, or any pepper to spice it up with the cheese really, and cheddar on the cheese, it’s delicious with butter.

I bet it is! I’ll try it. I know my husband will LOVE it.