How do you define racism?

I have a low threshold, I consider all your examples racist. I would define racism as opinions or actions based on the assumption that certain “races” are superior to others, regardless of whether that race is your own.

For me, I kind of have to rank the racism 1 to 10, because there are a lot f levels to it. With 1 being when you call someone a racist name in an argument, just because you want to use it on them to try and hurt them, to 10, when you show up with a burning cross and some rope and kill people or tell them to get out of town.

If someone is racist rank 1, then they are racist, in that they at least have some level of racism to them.

I also try hard, to not mix racism with other things. For example, anyone who says how much they hate Muslims is not a racist to me, as Islam is not a race. Unless I find out they are using Muslim as code for Arab, then they become racist to me.

If a white American guy, says how he hates the French, again that is not racism to me, as they are both white, it is just xenophobia or prejudice.

See, like @longgone I have a very low threshold, but I try to rank it 1 to 10, because, when someone makes a racist joke, even though it is racism, calling them on it and calling it racism out loud, is bad, because that detracts from how serious rank 10 racism is.

Really, I would like to say it is only racism past rank 8, but if we are ever going to get rid of it, we need to find a way to start calling people out on all levels of racism, but somehow do it without trivializing how serious real racism is.

^^ “See, like @longgone I have a very low threshold, but I try to rank it 1 to 10, because, when someone makes a racist joke, even though it is racism, calling them on it and calling it racism out loud, is bad, because that detracts from how serious rank 10 racism is.”

I agree with that. I would not necessarily call a casual remark racism. I would, however – if the situation allows it – discuss the issue. And hopefully get my point across like that.

@longgone Is a stereotype always negative to you then? If someone says, “It’s an Italian wedding, there will probably be a ton of food.” Is that racist?

I think the acid test for racism is this: What do you assume about a person based on their race alone? When you encounter someone of a particular race, what expectations do you have of what that person is like?

The clusters of expectations we have based on race are the basic elements of racism. Those expectations may be positive, negative, or neutral in terms of how you feel about them, but they’re still rooted in the idea that one’s race tells you something about what a person is like. It’s that basic premise that constitutes racism.

The virulent forms of racism that are easy to identify and decry are just the above premise taken to an extreme. In its more subtle forms, racism can be relatively benign and invisible.

@thorninmud What if something is statistically true? Is acknowledging that stat separate to you from meeting each individual on their own merit? For instance, if it is true where you live that 50% of black male youths don’t finish high school, and you know it, it’s not like you can erase the fact from your mind, but when you meet a young black male you don’t assume anything about that individual, then is it racist to even acknowledge or talk about the high school drop out rates among black males?

Great question, great answers and interesting discussion so far, @JLeslie.

@poisonedantidote I thought about your answer. I 100% agree that religion and nationality is not race, but for this question I think it applies. Like I said all groups; Hispanics (not a race) black, white, and your example Muslims (not a race) etc. If someone is making a negative assumption about a group I am calling it racism for this Q simply for lack of a better word. Do you know of a better word? I would be happy to use it instead.

I’m curious if any amount of stereotyping might be a rank 1 to you? Even if it isn’t negative stereotyping.

@bkcunningham Thanks.

@JLeslie That’s an important question.

Statistics related to race can be understood in two different ways: You can see them as revealing intrinsic qualities of various races, or you can see them as revealing the effects of racism itself.

To use your example, I could conclude from the statistics that there’s something about being black that accounts for the high school drop-out rate. That could lead me to the assumption that blacks just aren’t quite as sharp as, say, Asians. Once that association is established, it will now color my expectations of anyone I identify as “black”.

Or I could see the statistics as revealing nothing about “what black people are like”, but rather as revealing the effects of systemic racism itself, the feedback loop of diminished expectations. That’s quite different. The statistics may suggest to me that there’s a significant chance any given black male whom I meet will have encountered this problem, but they tell me nothing about his intrinsic qualities.

If I were living in Poland in the early 1940s and saw someone wearing a yellow star, I could justifiably assume certain things about what that person’s life experiences might be like, but I could not justifiably assume that there’s something about their Jewishness that makes it so.

I agree on the levels but my real concern is malicious intent and continuing a racist legacy. Negative intent.

I like @poisonedantidote‘s scale. I never thought of it that way before.

I think that if one has preconceived ideas about a certain race and those ideas color the way one interacts with people of that race, there is racism present at least at some level. For instance if one gets nervous boarding a plane with people of middle eastern descent, there is a level of racism there. If one crosses the street because one is afraid of an African American who is walking by, there is racism there.

I think that stereotypes of all kinds do everyone a disservice. As I mentioned in another thread, I live in a town that is very segregated. I work in a library at a university with a very diverse student population. If I was to buy into the stereotypes that are prevalent in this city I would have preconceived notions about almost every student I meet and that is dangerous. I think stereotypes are at least partially responsible for what Michael Gerson calls “the soft bigotry of low expectations.” As @thorninmud says, that just creates a negative loop that perpetuates itself.

I think in some cases negative intent is part of it – mostly when people rise to a 10 on @poisonedantidote‘s scale, but in others negative intent doesn’t have to be there. I think if racism is ever going to go away we all have to do our own self-inventory and be aware of those little things that enter our awareness when we meet someone who is different. Do we have a little voice that says the person with a Polish last name is dumb? The person with an Italian surname must have mob ties? Those things aren’t necessarily about negative intent, but they are dangerous too and we need to be aware of them so we can reprogram our beliefs about people of every race.

@SuperMouse What about where you might stop for gas? You have a choice, a black poor neighborhood that has high crime, or a white suburb with low crime. Is it racist to choose the white neighborhood? What if a black woman is choosing the white neighborhood? What if both neighborhoods are white, then it is ok to not stop in the high crime area? I think sometimes someone makes a comment about a dangerous area and it is interpreted as racist, but it is just a matter of being prudent. Or, is it still at minimum a rank 1 as long as the neighborhood isn’t white?

Your university is diverse and the students there are getting a college degree, not selling dope on the street. Would you agree that place and circumstance might influence what precautions or assumptions you might take?

It it is about crime it isn’t racist it is common sense. If a gas station has been robbed over and over it makes sense to avoid that gas station regardless of where it is located. Let’s be honest, most of the crime in “high crime” areas is perpetrated upon people who live in the neighborhood. Even in the most violent parts of town I have never heard of a shooting at gas station. The violence around here is mostly gang related and these gang members are killing each other, not people pumping gas in their neighborhood. If one goes out of one’s way to avoid getting gas in a neighborhood that is predominantly African American just bcause it is an African American neighborhood, I might consider it racist whatever the color of the person doing so.

I personally define racism as the belief that a person’s race can determine a person’s inferiority or superiority. So in other words, finding racist jokes funny doesn’t make you a racist nor does pointing out that there are an inordinate amount of black people in American prisons. In other words, I don’t really take the term lightly.

To me, it means having a negative opinion about someone based solely on a single physical feature. Some black people are prejudiced against other black people because they have darker or lighter skin. I’ve even read of people being discriminated against because of the color of their hair (red heads, for instance) and because of their size.

@SuperMouse I have read of several shootings at gas stations, usually directed at the cashier, but at least one in Bakersfield where someone who was just passing through was shot and killed because of the color of his shirt.

@YARNLADY that type of thing is very uncommon in my area. If there have been shootings they are attached to robberies, not random or gang violence.

Wilful ignorance.

Any overt racist remarks, attitudes, otherwise preferences are not racist. It is not racist to not prefer or be interested in, attracted to, or otherwise incompatible with another person, regardless of race. Preferences can not, nor should not, be subject to the racism card.

The start of racism is thinking in terms of ‘them’ and ‘us’ and that is a very natural thing to do and very difficult if not impossible to avoid completely. The trouble really begins when it develops further and you begin to think that ‘they’ are inferior and can be used as slaves or ‘they’ are a threat and should be exterminated. That is taking it to extremes and racism usually involves subtler forms of prejudice but the tendency for it to get worse and descend into violence is always there. Racism is grounded in wilful ignorance that allows imaginary differences to appear real.

I agree with @DominicX

Far too many people are capable of discrimination based on intelligence, race, religion, income (or lack thereof), gender, homophobia, etc. Agents of Law Enforcement are prone to profiling. It does become an example of “us vs them”. Stereotype often plays into the equation. I am not saying that I have never been guilty of using discriminatory language, but I try to do my best to NOT descend to that level (but when I run into stupidity, I do tend to become VERY disparaging!)

Great question and great answers!

Sorry for coming to the dance so late…

This is actually a problem that we face daily in our lives as a family. My wife and I try to continuously teach our children and ourselves that we all should continue to have open minds towards people in general and stay away from prejudice and bigotry. I teach them prejudice is dangerous.

Yet… in daily life we all see so many things in which cultures and genders are different. To such an extent that these differences quite often offer reliable predictors for behaviors and attitudes of people with different cultures and genders.

Our whole society is based on these predictions. Products for men are marketed different than those for women, for instance. Sometimes we even understand some of the differences. Different hormone levels result in different personality traits.

Not only the difference between men and women is clear, though. Also there are clear differences between cultures. Van Hofstede has done a lot of, often brilliant, research into these cultural differences. Need for personal freedom, acceptance of power distance, femininity of culture, etc. My observation: strict Middle East muslims are definitely different from atheist Dutch people.

So… can we take these differences in account when approaching the people around us?
Of course… quite often we even need to. When we don’t, then our lives become hell. Nevertheless… this is a form of prejudice and when culture and ‘race’ become correlated, as they so often are, this prejudice comes close to racism.

So if prejudice on race/culture is bad… how come it can be very useful, sometimes necessary in day to day life? It cannot be all bad and therefore I like your question.

I think I am reaching to the conclusion, that racial and cultural prejudice become racism, when:
* we think that our prejudice towards the group is a valid and true assertion of all individuals in that group.
* we think that we as an individual are better than the individuals of another group.
* we think we are entitled of better or different treatment merely based on our culture or race.

Note that I think it quite OK to feel that some cultures are worse than my own. I actually believe there are superior and inferior cultures. I would like to challenge anyone that says this is untrue, but still believes in equal rights for men, women and people of different genders and culture.

(That last sentence was pretty cryptic, but true.)

@JLeslie Not all stereotypes are negative to me. But if someone based their perceived superiority on the eating habits of a certain ‘race’ – then yes, that I would call racism.

@longgone Superiority? I want to go to the Italian wedding for all the food. I’m Jewish, we have the same stereotype about our weddings.

@whitenoise I love the line My observation: strict Middle East muslims are definitely different from atheist Dutch people. Made me LOL. Your answer made me think a lot. GA.

To piggyback off of @DominicX‘s answer, I don’t think that is racism, and I don’t take people seriously that try to claim racism at trivial jokes and comments. An example of racism to me are statements like this gem I’ve heard from a co worker: “My family doesn’t really want me dating black guys. We just, you know…don’t want it in our genes.”

‘Murica. Lol.

@JLeslie I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I don’t think the stereotype in your example is racist. I would be perfectly fine with someone stating that there tends to be a lot of food at Italian weddings.

The rejection of equal rights and equal opportunities for all full-age adults.

@mattbrowne That’s an interesting answer. So, you wouldn’t bother with including opinions about differences about races or stereotypes, you just worry about if they are afforded equal opportunities and rights? Almost more of a legal thing. Or, is that you think that all goes together and so it not need mentioning.

@JLeslie – Well, very often problematic opinions and stereotypes have a direct or indirect influence on equal opportunities. So, yes, it all goes together.