How safe is Mr. Snowden in Hong Kong?

China will probably extradite him. Who knows what concessions we will make though?

The US won’t do anything untoward except press for extradition. The US/Hong Kong agreement on extradition would have them turning him over to the US, but the Chinese have higher jurisdiction say.

So it’s a matter of the Chinese deciding if this affects them internally or not.

The scary thing is that the U.S. government has established and defended the precedent that it’s justified to use drones to kill U.S. citizens abroad. Maybe Mr. Snowden was trying to defray that possibility, thinking that China wouldn’t look kindly on such an infringement on its sovereignty, especially during a visit from the Chinese President.

I really hope the guy has cancer and was told by his doctor he only has a few months to live. One way or another he is fucked.

@bookish1 – yes, that’s why I asked the question that way.

This whole episode seems very similar to the Pentagon Papers episode 30+ years ago. Basically, if the government had been honest with the American people from the start, then these revelations wouldn’t have been ‘secrets” and no harm would be done.

By over-hiding things, the US Gov sets itself up for this sort of thing.

Dumb Dumb Dumb

I’m not sure the government wants a show trial. I suspect that Snowden does.

@Jaxk – Obama probably doesn’t want a show trial, I agree.

I can see Cruz, Rubio, Boehner, McConnell, and the doctrinaire right wingers to want to “make a lesson” out of this to drive home the ‘security above everything with the power of the law’ message.

I find it interesting, however, that Rand Paul is vehemently anti-eavesdropping – which makes sense – BUT he hasn’t said one word about whether Snowden should be treated as a hero or a criminal.

Have you seen this interview he did?

Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that, @Judi. He said that the CIA could ‘render’ him or call up the Triads… Scary shit.

@elbanditoroso

I’m not sure there is anybody that would ‘argue security above all else’. The “doctrinaire right wingers” are the same guys that support the constitution above all else. I have a major conflict on this issue. I strongly support the idea that governments need to keep some things secret. Leaking classified material is a serious breach. At he same time the founding fathers created this country with the central theme to slow the steady march towards authoritarian government. The revelations revealed by Snowden scare the shit out of me and I think we have a right to know this. Judge Napolitano has said he is an American Hero. I tend to agree.

@Jaxk – I agree, we have the right to know this stuff. My point above was that we should have known it all along. The government is in the wrong on this one—if they treated Americans as adults they wouldn’t be in this mess.

I have many issues with the right wing, and have for years. The temptation, I fear, will be for the law-and-order buffs to clamp down even tighter.

We did know it, when they passed and reauthorized the Patriot Act.

This issue just reinforces how far the USA has fallen from the high principles under which it was founded.

Rule by fear and intimidation.

I wonder if this situation will have any bearing on Bradley Manning’s trial. Thoughts, Jellies?

As to the original question: Dead man walking.

Although I hear he has left the hotel he was staying in; along with the journalist.

I just heard on NPR that he has disappeared from his closely surveilled hotel room. The White House has refused comment. Render unto Caesar?

Manning should be let off with a slap on the wrist and an apology from the Army.

What Snowden did, in the scheme of things, is far worse. I’m still glad he did it, but on an absolute scale, the NSA stuff is a current issue. The Manning/Wikileaks stuff was embarrassing but all in the past.

@elbanditoroso

You may be right in that ‘law and order’ assessment but I think it’s going to be more of an Obama issue. This doesn’t make him look good and he doesn’t like that. It’s going to be difficult to dicipher whether someone doesn’t like this because they support Obama or if they don’t like it because they want to blame Obama. Motives are the main issue these days and whether you cheer or dispise this guy will be second guessed by your political leanings. It will be interesting.

@Espiritus_Corvus

Interesting question. It’s almost funny that I have the exact opposite reaction to what @elbanditoroso posted. Manning should have the book thrown at him while Snowden should be cheered. Manning did a complete indiscriminate document dump to a publisher that was intent on harming the USA. Snowden on the other hand did a very narrow disclosure with a distinct purpose. I see these very differently.

@Jaxk , I have a question for you and I am genuinely curious, not trying to argue at all. I ask because you and I have always been partisan on opposite sides. Do you support the powers granted by the Patriot Act? Did you support it under Bush and have now changed your mind?
I always was afraid of the Patriot Act and saw Brave New World coming true. Even though I support Obama, I still feel like the Patriot Act should be repealed.

@Judi

Grudgingly. I saw a need for tighter security but never saw it going this far. I was never an ardent supporter nor detractor. There is no question that the recent scandels influence my position on these matters. I think there is a major difference in using a Fisa court to authorize wiretapping on a converstaion from me to someone in Iran and using it to authorize the collection of data from all telephone calls both domestic and abroad. I also it as different to collect specific information on specific individuals suspected of crimes and using it for broad data mining from people no one suspects of anything. That is what has changed with these latest revelations. That and the fact that it is no longer potential abuse but rather actual abuse by the government.

I think all of this has proven that the power of government must be curtailed. The Patriot Act provides way too much power to the government and it is being used even more broadly than was ever intented. I would vote for repeal as well. Unfortunately this snowball has begun to grow in size and stopping it now may require more than just a simple repeal.

I saw it going this far, and further. Now it is just data, not content. (as far as we know.)
Anyone who can justify torture can justify just about anything. Thanks for answering honestly.

I can’t stop myself from typing this. Apparently anyone can justify anything regardless of any torture or lack thereof. I’m not sure how that plays into this.

Both Manning and Snowden should be commended. They did not release state secrets. They only released state abuses that they would rather keep secret.

@Jaxk , I am saying that power if given the chance will most likely be abused. I was afraid of giving it to Cheney, you are afraid of giving it to Obama.
I think Cheney used power to re pay his Haliburton severance package, the right thinks Obama wants to dominate every aspect of your life.
I am afraid that Republicans want everyone to pray to the same God, the right wingers are afraid that Obama wants to get rid of God.
I think that Republicans want to take advantage of the have nots, the right thinks that Government wants to stifle business.
Either way, power run amuck can take people to bad places. I think we can both agree on that.

@Judi
The democratic wing of the Corporate Party is now in office. The republican wing of the same party is on the rise.

@Judi

Yes we can agree with that. Any issue that unites Glen Beck and Micheal Moore is scary in and of itself.

I think that there is a good chance that Mr. Snowden will have a “heart attack” or “automobile accident” in the near future. The CIA really hates whistleblowers.

Not safe at all. Didn’t anyone see “The Dark Knight”?