Oh boy. Should I apply for this teaching position at a private Christian school?

My husband applied to be a music teacher at a Christian school. They wanted him to sign a “statement of faith” and have a letter of recommendation from a pastor. To teach 6th graders how to play guitar. Seriously.

That’s what I’m worried about. 20 years ago it wouldn’t have been a problem. Today, it would be a lie. BUT….they are a private school. They have the right to request anything they want.

I recommended he lie.

And he was going to, but apparently they were really snobby in the interview, so he decided those weren’t the people he wanted to work with or for, anyway.

I’d have to do some more checking. I don’t know that ALL religions are fanatically anti-science. Bleh.

I think pursue it. Find out the requirements. If it were a Catholic school I would say for sure don’t worry about how religious you are, but a Christian school I just am not sure how much they weave creationism and religion into the teaching day. It probably varies by school. I would never guess it would matter much at the elementary level, but then just yesterday there was a Q about children’s bible books having frowing Jews throwing stones at a frowning prostitute and I realized I am completely clueless about what some Christians present to their children at incredibly young ages. I already had a problem with 5 year olds knowing Jesus was nailed to a cross. It’s so violent for a young child in my opinion. But, don’t assume anything about this school. I know plenty of Christians who are scientists.

If it is just leading a prayer at the beginning of the day and before a meal, I would see no problem with that if I was in your place, I am fine with doing that with children even though I do not believe, because their parents want that for their children, and I don’t see anything very negative about it. Possibly there are separate teachers for religion class and you won’t have to deal with it much at all.

This reminds me of De Niro & Penn in We’re No Angels.

I guess it’s worth a shot, @JLeslie!

Let us know what you find out. I’m curious.

What grade do kids usually learn about evolution?

Here is an article about Lutheran science teachers and their approach to evolution.

Give it a shot and check out the school. I look forward to hearing what you find out!

I taught it from the git go, @JLeslie, just like math and everything else. Baby steps. Dinosaurs would be a big thing to kindergarteners.

Thanks @Cupcake!

It didn’t tell me anything. :( Just that it was on a mission to find out.

@Dutchess_III Evolution is taught when kids start learning about dinosaurs? Seems unnecessary to me. I vaguely remember learning about evolution in 6th grade, not before that. But, my memory could be weak.

It’s a process. All kindergarteners know about dinos when they start school, just like they know about super heros. You may not have heard the word “evolution” before 6th grade, but it doesn’t mean you weren’t taught bits and pieces before then.
It’s kind of like math or reading….in kindergarten you learn your “numbers.” They don’t use the word ‘math.’ Same with learning your “letters.” They don’t call that reading or writing in kindergarten. You start hearing those terms in 1st grade.
As you advance, you start hearing terms like “Algebra,” and “nouns and verbs.” But you’ve been preparing for those courses from the beginning.
So you can teach about dinosaurs and fossils without bringing the word “evolution” or the actual concept of it, into it for a long time.

@Dutchess_III Did you see the table? 50% of teachers do not discuss human evolution at all. I think there is a very good chance that a Lutheran school would require you to teach creationism, perhaps along with a few evolution concepts as well.

I didn’t see a table, @Cupcake. Does that 50% account for all teachers, K-12?

I don’t have the link open any more, but I think they sent the survey to all Lutheran schools, so I think it included all grades.

Well, that’s a little misleading then. After 6th grade, the teachers specialize so if you have 30 teachers in a building, only one would be teaching science.

I was wrong.

The research questions for the article:
1. To what degree do Lutheran secondary school teachers incorporate evolution in their teaching of basic first-year biology courses?
2. How do Lutheran biology teachers compare to public school teachers in their overall emphasis of evolution education in their classroom and the influences that guide their decisions?

So it’s more to the point about their belief system, since you wouldn’t be teaching at the secondary school level.

@Dutchess_III I think even Christians believe there are fossils and there were dinosaurs. They just might disagree on how the fossils got there. I don’t see a problem for you, unless the administration cares about what is in your head. They should only care about what you will be teaching to the students. If it was high school science there might be a problem. But, since @Seek_Kolinahr points out some Christian schools make you sign a statement of faith, then who knows what they will want or require. My sister was a big sister with Catholic charities, I don’t think they ever asked her about her religious beliefs.

Oh, you’d be amazed at the “theories” some Christians come up with to explain fossils and dinosaurs.
In the 80’s they tried to convince us that it was all made up by satanic people disguised as scientists.
That’s evolved some because the truth is so undeniable, but some say it all goes back to the big flood. The flood laid the bones down in a certain way and yadda yadda yadda.

@Dutchess_III Fun at-home experiment to debunk that one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sD_7rxYoZY

@Dutchess_III I asked a Q about it once. It was where I first learned that some Christians believe the fossils were put their by God.

Even if this school believes some of what we would call outlandish theories, do you think they teach them to kids that young? You said yourself it isn’t really taught as evolution at that early age. Telling a 7 year old a long long time ago there were dinosaurs and taking them on a museum field trip to see the bones doesn’t have to go into how the bones got there. I think I really underestimate how early religion is intertwined into the teachings of young children in these schools. The Catholics believe evolution, maybe the Lutherans do also? I only knew one Lutheran guy, it was back in college. The one time we all mentioned our religion he said something about gluttony being a sin in his religion, and that was about it. My guess is he was not very religious.

Well, the time to “get them” is when they’re young. The thing is, I may not set up an actual lesson plan to teach it, but undoubtedly a kid will ask “How did the bones get there?”
A sharper kid, maybe a little older, might ask, “OK, if Adam and Eve had 2 boys, and one died, where did their grandchildren come from?”

It’s not just about “teaching,” it’s about answering questions.

And absolutely they teach them to kids that young. Try being a Sunday school teacher, pre-K for a couple of years.

“My momma said that Adam had a pet T-Rex dinosaur and they only ate plants.”

Choke!! :)

@Dutchess_III I wouldn’t, but I’m one of those people who let my morals guide me through life, but if I want a glass of wine or to smoke a cigarette, I will. I think the standards at your school would be fairly restrictive and would choke me for sure.

That’s what I don’t know, @KNOWITALL. I’m making assumptions though….

@Dutchess_III Yeah, I can see the problem. Although, you can say the bones come from the animals dying and the bones being left behind. As far as Adam and Eve, maybe you can direct them to their religion teacher? Assuming there is one. How do Christians do this? I will never understand a parent wanting a teacher to teach religion who they don’t know for sure has their same beliefs. What I mean is, let’s say there is one Christian school in town and a terrible public school so you put your Episcopal children in the Baptist school. I guess maybe they are similar enough that it is ok? I would rather them go to a secular school and bible class at my church. I don’t trust the Baptist school to not teach them dancing is a sin and then the next time they want to wiggle when fun music comes on they worry they will be struck by lightening. But, that’s me.

Take the job. Working is always better than not working. Don’t bring up Creationism unless they do, and if they do, tell them that you’re going to teach science, not religion.

Lutherans are pretty cool, anyway. One of my best friends is a devout religious Lutheran with a Darwin bumper sticker. They’re not wackaloons.

Yes, I agree. I need to find out what they expect before I disregard them. I’m just letting my imagination run away with me….like, not being required to answer serious questions from my students with mythology, not science.

I’d be more worried about the kids’ parents than the school itself.

“I pay 7,000 bucks a year to bring my kid to a Christian school and I won’t be hearing any of this “millions of years old” nonsense! You teach them what GOD says, not that demon Darwin crap.”

Yes, and if I run into that it just won’t be the place for me.

I think the internets is making me paranoid. I’ll bet the instance of that actually happening may be far, far less than what we’re led to believe.

I sent my daughter to a private Christian school, from 2nd grade to 5th. I just texted and asked if they taught creationism or evolution there.
She said “Creation.”
I just sent back “Sigh.”
She said, “I know.”

It’s what I teach my kids at home, it’s what every parent teaches their kids at home that trumps any school agenda.

I think back to the first time someone asked my son if Santa brought him a lot of presents. I think they were just asking him if he got a lot of stuff, but he answered, “Uh, I’m pretty sure it was Mama.”

Is it bad that I’m really looking forward to the first time someone tries to bring up religion to my kid? “Uhm… there’s no “up” in space. How can heaven be “up”?” It’ll be GREAT.

You’ll be the ultimate influence over what he believe, @Seek_Kolinahr. I just hope you can teach him in a way that allows for tolerance and respect for those who have different views. You can’t really pick and choose what sets of principles you can disagree with, but still respect and tolerate, and other principals that disagree with and you belittle and insult.
Save it for when he’s an adult, and you guys can have adult discussions.
You teach kids a lot more than what to accept and what to believe, whether you realize it or not. You also teach them what attitudes are acceptable or expected.

Erm… most folks don’t send their kids to Christian schools to learn about religion. They simply want a safer place with less student to teacher ratio than what public schools offer.

Sure, it depends upon the school. But it’s not like going to church every day. Contemporary Christians are very up on their science, and open minded about “theories” of evolution. And honestly Dutchess, the term Creationism is not a set in stone meaning. There are vastly different interpretations of what that means… much like the term evolution has a myriad point of views on what it actually is.

Go teach. You never know what you might learn.

That’s true, @RealEyesRealizeRealLies. I was so disgusted with my daughter’s 2nd grade public school teacher that I quietly pulled her out over Christmas break and sent her to Bethel Life School. It was where we went to church too. It was a lot like family. I liked the fact that they could kick problem students out instead having to tolerate them by law.

Go teach! That’s funny @RealEyesRealizeRealLies!

How about simply asking for a detailed description of the curriculum you would have to teach?

That eliminates guesswork, assumptions, experience in any other school, what they may or may not expect of you, and sticker shock.

Does the fact that it is K-6 mean that you will have to teach any subject, at any grade level?

Yes, but that isn’t a problem. I’m certified K-9, and, actually, was teaching at the HS level the last 3 years.

I’m assuming its Mossouri Synod Lutheran. If that is the case, and they are hiring you for more than just one subject, I would suspect you would be asked to teach religion. Many Lutheran schools teach a confirmation in the school. (Study of the Lutheran catechism.)
My kids went to a Lutheran School and it was expected that they would get a Christian education.
If this happens to be an ELCA school (a different Lutheran denomination) you might be more comfortable. Mossouri Synod has gotten extremely fundamentalist in the last few years and if you don’t agree with their doctrine you might be pretty miserable.

Well, elementary school teachers do teach all subjects, with the exception of art and music.
I’ll just have to look into it.
I don’t know how many college graduates could whole-heartedly believe in any particular religion. Perhaps religious instruction too would be given over to a separate teacher, like music and art are.

The kindle vision of Luther’s Small Catechism is only $.99

But Mossouri Synod Lutherans have whole universities to train their teachers. :-) in my kids school the teachers taught religion. It was part of every subject.

I would take it because it’s a job. You wouldn’t be losing anything by taking the job, and if you don’t like it and it’s not for you you can always quit.

But if I had to to teach religion it means I’d be lying to the kids, before God. Are you OK with that?

@Dutchess_III I might be ok with it, depending on exactly what I had to teach. If I am taking care of the children of a Catholic friend of mine I would reinforce what their parents teach them, the children are not my children, they are their children. I would not lie, but I would use lines like, Catholics believe, etc. if the kids are older, high school age, then I might present other ways of thinking, but I am pretty closed minded about young children, I think we should not interfere with the parents overall in what religion they want them exposed to. I think it is fun to expose children to different holiday celebrations, but the religion, the specific religious teaching, I say wait for an older age.

I agree with that, @JLeslie. Completely. I guess it would just depend on the subject at hand. If it was ethics, I’d have no problem weaving in Christian doctrine. However, if it was science and I was expected to say “God just made everything, poof!” That I couldn’t do.

@Dutchess_III I have no problem saying things like God created the universe. I don’t think God and evolution need to be in conflict. God laying the necessary materials for the earth and life, to me that is God created everything, but a physical process had to take place for the earth and everything that exsts here to get to where it is now. So, I guess for me it would just depend on whether they need me to teach that all of a sudden a person was here, poof; or, if it is a more abstract teaching on the topic. If I can be vague and the kids fill in their own blanks I could do it. I would think with elementary age vague works.

However, with the environment today in the country who knows. Some Christians are pretty fired up, and want to wind up their troops to be on the offensive. I have Christian friends telling me things like marriage is under attack, that Christian have their religious freedom taken away, and they get told this, preached it, from their churches, from their ministers, not just other church members. Since evolution can be a topic that divides Christians from others, maybe they purposely start very young drilling creationism into their children. I don’t know. The Christians I knew most of my life were Catholics and they were nothing like the evangelicals I have come to know in the last 10 years. I really was extremely naive, ignorant, previously, and I guess I still am to some extent.

Like I said, it would depend on the subject. If all I had to say was “God created the universe and everything in it,” and that was the end of all science teaching for the year, I could swallow it.

If you pursue it let us know how it goes. Do you identify as a Christian? I don’t remember. If they have some sort of Christian requirement.

I used to although I never subscribed to the creation idea. I’ve always been a scientist.

Yeah…I’ll probably at least give them a call to see what is expected.
I’m just afraid of getting into conversations like, “My friend told me that all the continents used to be one big continent. Is that true?”
Me, “Um. No. The world is exactly how God created it.”
“My friend told me that the Earth is billions of years old. Is that true?”
“No. God created the Earth 6000 years ago, although the dinosaurs lived 65 million years ago. I have no explanation. God works in mysterious ways.”
“How did the dinosaurs die?”
“The great flood.”
....No man! Ain’t happenen’!

LOL. Maybe I am naive, very very possible, but I don’t think many Christians believe the earth is only 6,000 years old.

According to a Gallup poll taken about a year ago, 46% of Americans believe God created man in his present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so.

(The pictures on the site are wonky. I’d look at the PDF linked at the bottom of the page for the actual questions as asked and the methodology.

I guess I am naive.

wow. scary

I will say I think the choices might not accurately reveal whether someone believes in evolution though.

I wish my daughter fluttered. She could tell you how it went down as a student in a Lutheran school.
She had one teacher who is still a friend of mine that put up with all her adolescent rebellion. My daughter would ask the controversial questions just to put the teacher on the spot.
This teacher is a Christian but I don’t think she believes that God created the world in 6 earth days.
When my kids went to school they held a very high academic standard and never really tried to be at odds with science.
In recent years they have taken a sharp right turn with the president of the Missouri Synod going before congress to stop birth control in healthcare reform (even though Lutherans don’t have a problem with birth control) while not saying a word about the devastating effects the congressional farm bill will have on millions of poor families.
There is also a disparity in the treatment of “called＂ teachers and hired teachers. “Called” teachers have been trained in Lutheran universities and have a sort of instant tenure.
Just trying to give you a heads up of the political environment you might be getting yourself into.